... for fark's sake we are past torture and killing protesters, now we're already at the stage of kangaroo courts and executions.

Tatsuma: yes yes, typo, preview before submitting and all that i know

lol, wordpad

Why has no one given A-jad an acute case of lead poisoning yet?

Shiat.

Occam's Chainsaw: Why has no one given A-jad an acute case of lead poisoning yet?

I think the solution is a Mussolini extra-strength, frankly.

No one could have seen this coming.

BooBoo23: No one could have seen this coming.

It's not unexpected....but it's saddening regardless.

Occam's Chainsaw: Why has no one given A-jad an acute case of lead poisoning yet?

i still wish, in that video where he gets confronted by the mob, that someone had hit him with a molotov cocktail.

The more you tighten your grip, Khamenei..

Nice to see they have due process and whatnot there too. Can they drop that whole "republic" schtick, i think they've given up that facade now.


any word from PK?

somedude210: Nice to see they have due process and whatnot there too. Can they drop that whole "republic" schtick, i think they've given up that facade now.


any word from PK?

Seriously. Every time they announce him from here on out, they need to say, "Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, president of the Islamic Dictatorship of Iran."

I'm starting to think this is on the road to either a civil war, or a massive purging of dissidents, including clerics. I honestly don't know if banning green and breaking windows of people yelling "Allahu Akbar" is going to get the religious conservatives against the regime as well.

30th of June

- The Intelligence Minister has declared that some arrested will not be released. The protesters arrested were divided in three groups:
▪ Those who participated and had a hand in the decision-making process regarding the unrest. They will remain under custody until a decision is made as to their fate, and whether they could receive the death penalty.
▪ The anti-revolutionary demonstrators who took advantage of the situation. They will not be freed.
▪ Those who were influenced by the atmosphere. They will be released, if they have not yet been released.
In reaction to the arrest of the British embassy members, the majority of the European Union's members will recall their ambassadors as early as this weekend.

- The Jerusalem Post reports that at least 6 Mousavi supporters who had been arrested by security forces were hanged, and that others are being tried and risk the same fate. The Revolutionary Guard has announced the creation of a new unit, specialized in fighting organized crimes on the internet, including espionage, social corruption, and anti-Government subversive activities, as reported by the IRNA.

- The Keyhan newspaper, one of the most influential newspapers in Iran and controlled by a representative of Khamenei, has blamed Israel for the twitter posts describing the protests. According to them, Israel planted 18,000 messages right before the election in order to foment unrest. Press TV quoted Ahmadinejad as saying that recent comments from Obama showed that the US was forced to take position against the election results due to Zionist pressure. As they have done for the last two weeks, Iranian State Media claimed that some of the vandalism perpetrated by Basijis were in fact the result of violent actions from pro-Mousavi protesters, showing confessions on State television.

- Former President Khatami, who was replaced by current President Ahmadinejad in 2005, called for the creation of an impartial panel in order to address election problems. Former Conservative candidate, on the other hand, indicated that he believed the public recount highlighted the validity of the tampering claims, as most ballots appeared to have the same handwriting and using all the same pen.

- Mousavi will never be able to run again, as Ayatollah Yazdi declared that the Guardian Council will never again approve of his candidacy for any future election. Another cleric, Ayatollah Taheri-Esfahani, has come out in support of Mousavi.

- Ahmadinejad celebrated his victory again today and declared that his re-election as a victory for the Iranian people and a defeat for the Islamic Republic's enemies. According to Ahmadinejad, the following countries have recognized him: India, Tunisia, Malaysia, Lebanon, North Korea, Kuwait, Nicaragua, Comoros, Cambodia, , Senegal, Cuba, Belarus, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Algeria, Turkmenistan, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Bahrain, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Ecuador, Russia, Azerbaijan, Qatar, Tajikistan, Armenia, Oman, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China and Venezuela

- The commander of the Basij forces declared that polls showed 85% of Iranians trust the Iranian election process and that the remaining 15% would be convinced as well now that the Guardian Council declared they were legitimate.

Killing your best and brightest is not good for the long-term prospects of a country.

/look at the French

The article is kind of vague about its sources, but I wouldn't put this kind of barbarism past those shiatheads.

This is a terrible thing for the people, but, in the long run, good news for the revolution as a whole.

Khameni has made serious missteps in this by not maintaining his public neutrality. A-jad has made the huge mistake of endorsing the brutality and in so blatantly rigging the election.

Each new act of brutality and repression further calls into question the legitimacy of not just the leaders but the system and the regime as a whole.

K and A still don't seem to realize that they have crossed the line, that they can never recover from their blunders. It may take months or even years, but they are doomed and so is the whole Islamic system of government in Iran.

I still find it hard to understand how they could have made so many idiotic moves...everything they do or say simply adds new recruits to the protesters and their cause.

idiomagic: I still find it hard to understand how they could have made so many idiotic moves...everything they do or say simply adds new recruits to the protesters and their cause.

Hubris. A bottomless supply of hubris. And in Khameini's case, he might've actually started believing his own rhetoric.

It took a couple years for protests to bring the Shah down. For much of that time, it seemed like the only question was how many people would die in the streets, in the secret prisons, and on the nightly news.

At first, people were no doubt scared off by the repression and the disappearances. Eventually, they began to really understand why prior revolutionaries always say, "It's better to die standing up than live on your knees."

It'll be harder to take the new dictators down because the guys in charge are the ones who lived that before. The new Shahs know their safety is in their unity. But they might as well haul out the Peacock Throne and glue a Koran to it, for all the differences between themselves and the Pahlavis now.

idiomagic: It may take months or even years, but they are doomed and so is the whole Islamic system of government in Iran.

Tatsuma: 30th of June

Thanks for the update. Also, for some companion reading, Green Brief #14 (30 June) ^{(^)} is also up.

somedude210: any word from PK?

No, not yet. Just the semi-but-not-completely confirmed reports that PK is not under arrest, but merely offline and unable to get back online.

"In the end, it matters not the words of our enemies but rather the silence of our friends" (MLK paraphrased - I think)

/I believe another strongly worded denunciation and glowering stare should do the trick!!

I remember a week ago I lamented that how, in one week, the whole Iran thing will be essentially over. I said the only changes to Iran will be a couple thousand extra people filling the prisons. Everyone called me a troll.

I have to admit that I was wrong. The revolution was over even earlier.

Although I didn't want this to happen. I wanted to see those wife-beating, camel c**k-sucking mullahs get hung upside down and gutted alive. But I'm a pessimist. Unarmed protesters/dissidents are usually no match for the bottomless intimidation that can be doled out by an armed oppressive regime. It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. The bad guys with guns usually win.

Its too bad people in the US don't protest like this against the oppression here. Tens of thousands of innocent people are in our OWN prisons, because of nonsensical "forensic" evidence and prosecutors who just want another conviction under their belt to put on their resumes.

Also, a lot of these "arsons" you read about in the paper are actually accidental fires. The insurance companies hate paying out their policy, so they hire high-school dropout fire inspectors to say that EVERYTHING is arson. This sends innocent people to jail for crimes that DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN. Some people in the US have even been executed for deadly "arsons" that turned out to be accidental fires.

We're not that much better than Iran when you think about it.

\end drunk rant

yogaFLAME: The more you tighten your grip, Khamenei..

...the more people he kills?

BooBoo23: No one could have seen this coming.

I hope that's sarcasm.

Iran is run by sociopathic idiots these days, it would seem.
Everything they are doing is almost guaranteed to create the unrest and dissent they are so fearful of.

I'm wondering if, after we GTFO of Iraq, one of the many groups therein will take it upon themselves (read: will be paid by the Saudis) to arm their downtrodden Persian neigbors?

All the protesters? Florida had months of criticism just for a few cases of hanging Chad.

I don't know what is worse, the fact that due to decades of mangled foreign policy we are completely unable to provide any meaningful aid, or that we as a nation are perfectly content to watch another Iran slowly tear itself apart. I guess the only consolation is that if we don't act in this situation whatever comes out in the end won't be tainted by western interests.

Well, if this was how they were going to play it, then at least it removes all doubt about AJ's legitimacy, or the true nature of Khameni's rule.

I wonder what the Iranian people are going to do about it now? Non-violence only really works when they're embarrassed to kill unarmed people in full view.

In the BBC podcast that I heard today brought up a few interesting points from a journalist who left yesterday when his Visa expired.

1)As of right now, the political power base is now split. The Supreme leader, who was supposed to be impartial, is now seen as a a lackey of the conservatives in Iran

2)There is an anger among the people that this election was stolen. Before there was a belief that the elections meant something.

3) The Republican Guard is actually gaining more power. Apparently they receive many of the government contracts-so they are deeply entrenched into the economy of Iran. So they are very much interested in keeping the status quo operating.

While I agreed with Obama on how he handled this (In reality there is not much we can do about this since we have no formal relations.) I wonder what his approach will be to this sham government.

Eye for an eye, noose for a noose, Khamenei.

I'm pessimistic in the short-term that the revolt can or will continue, but on the bright side I think the Islamic gov't of Iran is planting the seeds of it's own demise.

Occam's Chainsaw: Seriously. Every time they announce him from here on out, they need to say, "Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, president of the Islamic Dictatorship of Iran."

I like this, except that I think we should use wejash's term, "the new Shah."

This shiat just keeps getting worse and worse.
my attention span is farked.

Iranians are killing each other. Is that really a problem?

We're not that much better than Iran when you think about it.



WILL NO ONE STOP OUR MORALLY EQUIVOCAL ARSON CHARGES???!!!!?!?!

If we weren't terribly indebted to China, we might able to diplomatically ask them to apply pressure onto Iran. At this stage, I would liken us to a compulsive gambler asking his bookie to twist a jockey's arm. Although, I hear Ahmadinejad is not tall enough to be a jockey, so my analogy may not work.

dudemanbro: I'm pessimistic in the short-term that the revolt can or will continue, but on the bright side I think the Islamic gov't of Iran is planting the seeds of it's own demise.

I've kind of been thinking about how there has been student unrest every few years, and how each wave has been bigger than the last. More importantly, the youth overwhelmingly support the opposition, and the regime supporters aren't getting any younger. Those who are for reform will continue to grow in numbers and those who are against it will continue to die off.

Is it too much to say that reform is inevitable?

/If this is just another "wave," adding in a little "you bastards executed my brother just for opposing you" to the next wave and it'll be unstoppable

yogaFLAME: The more you tighten your grip, Khamenei..

The more star systems will slip through your fingers?

only hung 6 people? that's not so bad. maybe this dinnerjacket guy isnt so bad after all.

ossaFK: I remember a week ago I lamented that how, in one week, the whole Iran thing will be essentially over. I said the only changes to Iran will be a couple thousand extra people filling the prisons. Everyone called me a troll.

I have to admit that I was wrong. The revolution was over even earlier.

Although I didn't want this to happen. I wanted to see those wife-beating, camel c**k-sucking mullahs get hung upside down and gutted alive. But I'm a pessimist. Unarmed protesters/dissidents are usually no match for the bottomless intimidation that can be doled out by an armed oppressive regime. It doesn't matter who the "good guys" are. The bad guys with guns usually win.

Its too bad people in the US don't protest like this against the oppression here. Tens of thousands of innocent people are in our OWN prisons, because of nonsensical "forensic" evidence and prosecutors who just want another conviction under their belt to put on their resumes.

Also, a lot of these "arsons" you read about in the paper are actually accidental fires. The insurance companies hate paying out their policy, so they hire high-school dropout fire inspectors to say that EVERYTHING is arson. This sends innocent people to jail for crimes that DIDN'T EVEN HAPPEN. Some people in the US have even been executed for deadly "arsons" that turned out to be accidental fires.

We're not that much better than Iran when you think about it.

\end drunk rant

Whoopty Whoo? Is that you?

screechingbitermonkey: Everything they are doing is almost guaranteed to create the unrest and dissent they are so fearful of.

I hope you're right, but I'm afraid that you are not. The regime appears willing to kill whatever number of its own citizens that is required in order to maintain its power. Remember these are the same lunatics who sent unarmed child "soldiers" to clear minefields during the Iran/Iraq War. To them, life is cheap, and the life of an enemy cheaper still. Removing such a regime through peaceful means is a dubious prospect at best.

Toppling the regime is going to require a significant armed faction (such as the army) to very publicly throw in with Moussavi and fight a civil war. And do it soon, or the people who need their help will all be dead.

Tatsuma: 30th of June

- The Intelligence Minister has declared that some arrested will not be released. The protesters arrested were divided in three groups:
▪ Those who participated and had a hand in the decision-making process regarding the unrest. They will remain under custody until a decision is made as to their fate, and whether they could receive the death penalty.
▪ The anti-revolutionary demonstrators who took advantage of the situation. They will not be freed.
▪ Those who were influenced by the atmosphere. They will be released, if they have not yet been released.
In reaction to the arrest of the British embassy members, the majority of the European Union's members will recall their ambassadors as early as this weekend.

I'm willing to bet that by 'three groups' they actually mean one, and will hang almost everyone.

CayceP: I'm willing to bet that by 'three groups' they actually mean one, and will hang almost everyone.

they let at least one of the tweeters out, so there is some hope.

Vangor: If we weren't terribly indebted to China, we might able to diplomatically ask them to apply pressure onto Iran.

Why would they? Given their public offering of congratulations to Ahmadinejad on his re-election, they probably see the situation as the people rising up against a legitimate government, and I don't think they want to encourage that.

Cybernetic: Removing such a regime through peaceful means is a dubious prospect at best.


Shush. The American Messiah will simply miracle the Iranian government away, just as Obaba's wishful thinking has resulted to the immediate end to Iranian aspirations to be a nuclear power.

"Change we can believe in" = "Surrender to our enemies".

/Yes we did
//WTF were we thinking???

cloud_van_dame: CayceP: I'm willing to bet that by 'three groups' they actually mean one, and will hang almost everyone.

they let at least one of the tweeters out, so there is some hope.

Really? That's good to know. I wish we could do anything about this at all, as stupid as that sounds.

CayceP: I'm willing to bet that by 'three groups' they actually mean one, and will hang almost everyone.

Damned if the government needs groups. Certainly crushing dissent by killing those dissenting is important, but merely locate people who are not expressly loyal and imprison, try, and execute them. The effect will be more drastic as none will feel safe and time-wasting actions such as investigation are utterly unnecessary.

I searched the internet, but I can't find directions on how to become a secret Muslim.

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Shush. The American Messiah will simply miracle the Iranian government away, just as Obaba's wishful thinking has resulted to the immediate end to Iranian aspirations to be a nuclear power.

"Change we can believe in" = "Surrender to our enemies".

wut?

Secret Master of All Flatulence: "Change we can believe in" = "Surrender to our enemies".

Absolutely. You should have elected McCain. This Iran issue would have been resolved a lot more quickly and for the better of everyone involved with McCain at the helm.

mamoru: Why would they?

Not saying China would have any reason, merely saying we are utterly without option as countries such as China and Russia are willing to support this.

PacManDreaming: idiomagic: It may take months or even years, but they are doomed and so is the whole Islamic system of government in Iran.


THIS.

Tantamount to saying that the whole Judaism/Catholicism system of government is doomed.

It is sad how uneducated most of the population is regarding religion, tribalism and nationalism.

SupremeLeader: We would have BOMBED, BOMBED, BOMBED IRAN!

You said BOMBED three times.

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Cybernetic: Removing such a regime through peaceful means is a dubious prospect at best.


Shush. The American Messiah will simply miracle the Iranian government away, just as Obaba's wishful thinking has resulted to the immediate end to Iranian aspirations to be a nuclear power.

"Change we can believe in" = "Surrender to our enemies".

/Yes we did
//WTF were we thinking???



Yes, because it is America's responsibility and within their ability to govern the world. Isn't that what got you into the present "sticky" situations to begin with? How's that working for you?

Jeesh you are a clunker.

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Iranians are killing each other. Is that really a problem?

Are you trying to be an asshole, or can you not help it?

..b..bu..but I thought Twitter, Tatsuma and the little green box on the Fark logo had created an unstoppable movement. A force who by their posting of disparaging comments on a daily basis and recycling material from other sources had liberated Iran and had created a watershed moment. A moment that would be henceforth be regarded as a turning-point in the modern democratic process and signal a new era where indignant nerds are able to topple foreign governments through frantic Twittering.

Oh wait. Michael Jackson died.

Cormee:
Oh wait. Michael Jackson died.

Something about statistics versus tragedies.

Cormee: *snip*

You're just an anti-Semite.

Fireproof: More importantly, the youth overwhelmingly support the opposition, and the regime supporters aren't getting any younger. Those who are for reform will continue to grow in numbers and those who are against it will continue to die off.

Is it too much to say that reform is inevitable?

Most every major revolution in the past 300 years (including the US and France) was preceded by a bulge in the young population. The median age in Iran is right around 27.

To answer your question: no, I don't think it's too much to say that reform is inevitable.

the_chief: I searched the internet, but I can't find directions on how to become a secret Muslim.

I think all you have to do is say that there is only one god, Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet...then don't tell anyone you ever said that.

...and, you didn't hear that from me

Are you people really so short-sighted that if something doesn't happen within a day or a week or two, then you think it will never happen?

Good thing people like you weren't the types leading the American revolution. You'd still be subjects of England.

:-/

mamoru: No, not yet. Just the semi-but-not-completely confirmed reports that PK is not under arrest, but merely offline and unable to get back online.

I was looking at the tweetgrid about an hour ago, there was something from OG saying that PK was fine and would be back at some point. This was from several hours ago.

It's like they're part of some kind of axis of evil or something.

cloud_van_dame: I was looking at the tweetgrid about an hour ago, there was something from OG saying that PK was fine and would be back at some point. This was from several hours ago.

Yeah, OG and Nite Owl were my primary sources of that information.

Fireproof: I've kind of been thinking about how there has been student unrest every few years, and how each wave has been bigger than the last. More importantly, the youth overwhelmingly support the opposition, and the regime supporters aren't getting any younger. Those who are for reform will continue to grow in numbers and those who are against it will continue to die off.

Is it too much to say that reform is inevitable?

America, as the Boomers die.

/Shaka, when the walls fell?

The truth is the people just don't have the muscle to fight back. The only option at this point is a civil war and unless a significant portion of the army is willing to back the people or a connected cleric can open up the borders for weapons to be smuggled in, the regime will continue on, albeit severely weakened at a crucial time where it needs to show leadership in order to cement its power among the other Shia nations in order to challenge the Sunni countries surrounding it.

in the end, the US wins. Up until the election, Iran was poised to become the next great leader of the middle east with the support of its "shia crescent" formed with Iraq (now shia dominated with Maliki cozying up to Ajad/Khamenei), Syria and hezbollah in Lebanon.

Now they are showing too much weakness which may make these states question that alliance and keep the balance of power where it is which Saudi Arabia/the US will appreciate.

The people however lose out on all sides.

Cormee: ..b..bu..but I thought Twitter, Tatsuma and the little green box on the Fark logo had created an unstoppable movement. A force who by their posting of disparaging comments on a daily basis and recycling material from other sources had liberated Iran and had created a watershed moment. A moment that would be henceforth be regarded as a turning-point in the modern democratic process and signal a new era where indignant nerds are able to topple foreign governments through frantic Twittering.

Oh wait. Michael Jackson died.

Yes, I also thought that was more than just a coincidence...

Will someone explain the article to me.

I can't figure out how this has anything to do with Michel Jackson's death.

Occam's Chainsaw: America, as the Boomers die.

/Shaka, when the walls fell?

If population projections are accurate, we'll have a labor shortage eventually which may mean different immigration policy, that sort of thing.

/finishing up The Next 100 Years
//hello Mr. Chainsaw :)

The iranian police chief now claims that Neda Sultan's death was staged.

The only surprising thing about this for me is that they didn't blame the jews for this yet.

I guess I have as much faith in this story from the Jerusalem Post as I would in a Chinese newspaper story about Taiwanese government brutality.

Just saying. Not denying it. Devil's Advocate.

Ashnar: Will someone explain the article to me.

I can't figure out how this has anything to do with Michel Jackson's death.

Michael Jackson is the one whose death merited a moment of silence in Congress.

CayceP: If population projections are accurate, we'll have a labor shortage eventually which may mean different immigration policy, that sort of thing.

/finishing up The Next 100 Years
//hello Mr. Chainsaw :)

We already have a population glut. We might have a skilled labor shortage, but we'll have no shortage of laborers.

/Hey yourself! *hugs*

Cormee: ..b..bu..but I thought Twitter, Tatsuma and the little green box on the Fark logo had created an unstoppable movement. A force who by their posting of disparaging comments on a daily basis and recycling material from other sources had liberated Iran and had created a watershed moment. A moment that would be henceforth be regarded as a turning-point in the modern democratic process and signal a new era where indignant nerds are able to topple foreign governments through frantic Twittering.

Oh wait. Michael Jackson died.

We've already liberated Iran with our Twitting and reposting awesomeness. You just keep getting sent back in time to the same day before we achieved it, so you're forgiven for your ignorance.

I find it frightening that if you give a minority of a population special status, they'll happily oppress the majority using whatever means necessary.

It seems the natural state of governing if things are left to evolve on their own is something more akin to what exists in Iran than what exists here. Only by constant effort to oppose the despotic elements that exist can we hope to maintain a free and fair society.

TappingTheVein: The iranian police chief now claims that Neda Sultan's death was staged.

The only surprising thing about this for me is that they didn't blame the jews for this yet.

Thus far I have heard them say:

- It was staged.

- It was an accident by either the police or Basij (surprisingly half-honest for this regime)

- She was killed by a CIA sniper, conveniently out of site and not captured or seen by anyone's camera, I suppose.

- And yes, that it was Israel's doing somehow.

/I guess they haven't learned to go with one story and stick to it as far as this incident is concerned

ossaFK: end drunk rant

I think the odds are a lot less on me being thrown in jail for the rest of my life on a trumped up arson charge in the US then getting the crapped kicked outta me and jailed in Iran for calling shenanigans on an election. But then again, I did say there would be no math.

Also, the Revolution isn't over by a long shot. It just stopped being super flashy.

/But we do really have some shiatty forensic people here.
//And at an alarming rate, shiatty "professionals" everywhere else.
///But slashy is always classy

TappingTheVein: The iranian police chief now claims that Neda Sultan's death was staged.

What I bet will happen is they'll take one of the protesters, torture him into a confession that he killed Neda on the orders of the US or Britain in order to try to cause a uprising, then they'll hang that person immediately so there can't be any recanting of that confession.

Cybernetic:

I hope you're right, but I'm afraid that you are not. The regime appears willing to kill whatever number of its own citizens that is required in order to maintain its power. Remember these are the same lunatics who sent unarmed child "soldiers" to clear minefields during the Iran/Iraq War. To them, life is cheap, and the life of an enemy cheaper still. Removing such a regime through peaceful means is a dubious prospect at best.

Toppling the regime is going to require a significant armed faction (such as the army) to very publicly throw in with Moussavi and fight a civil war. And do it soon, or the people who need their help will all be dead.

Would you have given up at Concord or Lexington? Every revolution has a beginning.

This will eventually become a violent revolution. The Iranian government crackdown almost insures it. There will be a point where the people, not just individuals, but all the people are NOT going to be afraid to die. As it is there are individuals and groups who are willing to die...but until this hits the mainstream, it's going to be hard going.

It is in the hands of the Iranian people, where it has been all along. Every time the US has interfered, it has gone badly, very badly.

This isn't over yet, remember the mourning cycle... 3 days, 7 days, 40 days. On July 30th (40 days from Neda's death), I would expect some big protests. The Revolution which took down the Shah took a year. Westerners are just too impatient.

Benjamin the Rogue:
We've already liberated Iran with our Twitting and reposting awesomeness. You just keep getting sent back in time to the same day before we achieved it, so you're forgiven for your ignorance.

I challenge the power of the Indignant Farkers' Twitter Alliance to raise Michael from the dead. Tweet him from the grave. Make it so.

Hey, I'm reposting my "Introduction to the Revolution" Pamphlet here. Feel free to copy and paste the html version of it around.

I was going for something that can be shown to someone who doesn't know what the hell is going on at all. I've been getting too many people who just biatch TL:DR when I drop Tat sized posts on their heads. So instead of bludgeoning them to death with Mossad intelligence reports, I made this.

Feel free to give me some pointers or new links if you can think of any to include. It still seems plenty unrefined in my opinion.



There's a battle that's spilled over onto the internet, and there are some very real casualties resulting from it. Here's what you can do; just learn what is happening, and let others know.

Here's some links to videos or other sites containing information concerning Iran. The top two videos illustrate what is happening in Iran., followed by some video and images of the protester's struggle. There are also links that are the declaration of support for the Iranian people by the group known as Anonymous, and their intent to join the war against the government of Iran. A link to their Internet War HQ is also included. Several other links that document the events are also posted. At the bottom are links to the last two days of protests, to show they have not been beaten. The people of Iran will not be denied their voice!

With the club or truncheon the government of Iran tries to implement its power, but they only extend as far as the hand can reach. The voice of the people hold power wherever it can be heard!

Any questions about the players involved, or the timeline of events, refer to my previous notes.

More will be added later.

Stay educated, stay free. Long live the Revolution!

What is happening in Iran? Part 1
What is happening in Iran? Part 2


Slideshow of the Iranian People's Struggle
Peaceful protesters caught in crossfire.
Because the hospitals have been seized by pro-government Basij, protesters are forced to go to makeshift hospitals for treatment. Here's the inside of one.
Protesters take a policeman to safety even after he was caught beating them.


World Protests in support of the Iranians. The world is a witness.


Anonymous' Declaration of Support
Anonymous' Declaration of War
Anonymous Iran HQ
Anonymous' War Room Daily Brief


Tatsuma's Collection of Torrents & Video
Tatsuma's Collection of Links and News Articles
ladypolitik Live Journal
Youtube Free Iran Channel


Protests on the 28th
Youtube Video of the 28th of June's March
Youtube Video of Riot Police Being Protected by Rioters on the 28th
Iranian's Making Their Voices Heard on the 29th.

SupremeLeader: Cormee: ..b..bu..but I thought Twitter, Tatsuma and the little green box on the Fark logo had created an unstoppable movement. A force who by their posting of disparaging comments on a daily basis and recycling material from other sources had liberated Iran and had created a watershed moment. A moment that would be henceforth be regarded as a turning-point in the modern democratic process and signal a new era where indignant nerds are able to topple foreign governments through frantic Twittering.

Oh wait. Michael Jackson died.

How dare you!
I twittered 'til my fingers bled.
Well, what I thought was blood was actually strawberry jam stains.
But for a moment, I bled green for the Iranian freedom fighters who I wanted to blow up with nukes a couple of weeks ago, but who are now my bestest friends.

/101st Keyboarder signing off.

And FTFA - something about the RevGuard cranking up their online disinformation campaigns. Still a bit of fire under that ash, isn't there? Could flare up at any time.

Pretty fascinating to watch, really - people getting the shiat kicked out of them and coming back for more day after day. Fact is, we are watching from the sidelines, powerless to do anything due to our own sordid history as well as something about the military being "stretched", whatever that means.

I hope for the best for all the people there, as I did when John McCain was joking about bombing them. He is a farkstick when it comes to anything outside the golf courses in Arizona. He's learning, though - I give him that. In a few decades the man might learn enough to participate in the debate without looking like a retard.

As for the identification many people in the world feel for the Iranian voters, do you not get that? Do I need to explain it to you? We want them to get their democracy in order so we can start doing business with them. I want to sell shiat to Iranian teens with tons of oil money.

For that matter, if the regime continues to win, will they take the unrest as a signal that it's time for some radical fiscal changes, or that it's time to finish that damned nuke already?


Much thanks to Tats et all for the awesome analysis and to the trolls for making me giggle till I farted. I don't have the stamina to follow this as closely as I'd like and FARK has actually become what I consider to be a fairly reliable discussion forum.

So I mean what I say about the differing viewpoints - if I leave the thread having been exposed to a viewpoint I didn't think of before - it wasn't a total waste of my time.

Looking forward to an eventful and entertaining 4th of July.

/Happy Sovereignty Day!

Hollerin Charlie: I hope for the best for all the people there, as I did when John McCain was joking about bombing them. He is a farkstick when it comes to anything outside the golf courses in Arizona. He's learning, though - I give him that. In a few decades the man might learn enough to participate in the debate without looking like a retard.

I don't think he thought his cunning plan through.

Damn it, I forgot to take out the "Check out my previous notes" line in the pamphlet I put up there. Well, I hope if someone else uses the damn thing, they notice that, so people don't get confused.

Fireproof: TappingTheVein: The iranian police chief now claims that Neda Sultan's death was staged.

The only surprising thing about this for me is that they didn't blame the jews for this yet.

Thus far I have heard them say:

- It was staged.

- It was an accident by either the police or Basij (surprisingly half-honest for this regime)

- She was killed by a CIA sniper, conveniently out of site and not captured or seen by anyone's camera, I suppose.

- And yes, that it was Israel's doing somehow.

/I guess they haven't learned to go with one story and stick to it as far as this incident is concerned

You forgot the one where she was killed by a hitman hired by the BBC so they could do a documentary.

That one's my personal favorite. Until, that is, they get smart and claim that Michael Jackson killed her. Looking forward to that one.

This news isn't important! I need to know if Obama smokes cigarretes again!

Iranian Government: "You're not allowed to protest anymore."

Humanity: "Fine, then you're not allowed to exist anymore."

That pretty much goes for any government that thinks it can tell its citizens they don't get to protest.

/I'm looking at you, Mr. "Free Speech zones"

SupremeLeader: So this is Iran's Tiananmen Square.

They'll erase the atrocities from the official history books and the next generation will grow up ignorant, materialistic, and unaware.

Just as in China and the West.

It'll be interesting to see if this turns out to be the case. What makes some revolutions work, like the fall of the Communist party in Russia, and others fail, like Tienanmen Square? Obviously, an Islamic theocracy is different than an officially atheist Communist government, but power corrupts no matter whether it's carried out with ideology or a holy book.

Um, said the JERUSALEM Post? Is this not an Israeli newspaper? I don't know, maybe I should read the article, but it just sent warning flags that this is coming from an Israeli Newspaper, and Israel has wanted to bomb Iran since forever ago.

Now I'll go read the article, and make sure the Jerusalem Post is actually an Israeli rag. :D

There was no independent confirmation of the report.

And then the article goes on to say alot of things that ARE true to make the execution thing a fact by reference.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't put it past Iran, but this thing is not yet a confirmed fact, and I take anything written by a country's sworn enemy with a grain of salt.

Nappy Imus: Um, said the JERUSALEM Post? Is this not an Israeli newspaper? I don't know, maybe I should read the article, but it just sent warning flags that this is coming from an Israeli Newspaper, and Israel has wanted to bomb Iran since forever ago.

Now I'll go read the article, and make sure the Jerusalem Post is actually an Israeli rag. :D

That's the spirit. It's good to see a few Westerns who don't have blindfolds over their eyes unlike these foreign provocateurs.

Westerners, even. With that I think I'll take my leave.

esteban9: It'll be interesting to see if this turns out to be the case. What makes some revolutions work, like the fall of the Communist party in Russia, and others fail, like Tienanmen Square? Obviously, an Islamic theocracy is different than an officially atheist Communist government, but power corrupts no matter whether it's carried out with ideology or a holy book.

Communism, at least Marxist-Leninism, pretended to be a highly scientific political philosophy that promised actual real-world results in terms of reducing inequity, propagating revolution, and collapsing capitalist states. It was, theoretically, supposed to be more sustainable and inevitable. Instead, by the '90s it was more than clear to the reasonably educated and not-entirely-oblivious population (given that they did attempt to educate their people, rather than go Pol Pot-esque Year Zero) and to the government that they had broadly failed -- party members formed an elite, it was the Communist governments that faced economic collapse rather than the capitalist systems, and so forth. They were having difficulty competing in either high-tech weapons systems or consumer products. Satellite governments had occasionally protested to the point of showing a different path -- e.g. Dubcek / Prague Spring. They'd already gone brutally and universally repressive (Stalin...) and had gone as far as repudiating a fair bit of that (as early as Khrushchev, IIRC), and Gorbachev apparently didn't have the stomach to repeat that.

The Chinese government did a better job of maintaining control partly because the population's less educated and rather nationalistic (*lots* of poor and uneducated rural peasants, lots of history of being exploited to belabor), partly because they'd focused on labor-intensive industrial power (thus cranking out goods for export) and not so much bothering to be a military superpower on the same scale, partly because they've always relied on repression and never purged their ideology of it. It's a culture where even those with substantial exposure to the West, like Jackie Chan, openly suggest that Chinese people *need* to be controlled and aren't ready for freedom. It also needs to be a mass movement when the population is well over 1B... and students tend not to have the leverage of, say, striking industrial workers. And there's not much of a historical ideology against which to demand consistency, either. The fact that they hosted the Taiping rebellion (perhaps 20-30M killed, 1850-1864 -- probably nastier than the Russian civil war even considering population ratios) and the Chinese civil war (perhaps 3.2M killed/wounded not counting civvies), and that they have people to spare, probably also makes the loss of life from snuffing out nascent insurrections look rather appealing and minimalistic compared to large-scale civil wars that have periodically afflicted them. i.e. greater willingness to prioritize stability.


/must sleep

I'll just add one more thing:

Gorbachev didn't really have to personally fear anything like, say, trial for crimes against humanity. He wasn't exactly a major figure while Lenin was terrorizing enemies or during Stalin's purges, for instance. The higher-ups in the Chinese government during Tienanmen -- well, Deng Xiaoping and some other Long Marchers and other party veterans were still alive and influential.

ciberido: /I'm looking at you, Mr. "Free Speech zones"

Yeah free speech zones are exactly the same.


I remember when snipers started shooting people who were otuside of the free speech zones.

Korovyov: esteban9: It'll be interesting to see if this turns out to be the case. What makes some revolutions work, like the fall of the Communist party in Russia, and others fail, like Tienanmen Square? Obviously, an Islamic theocracy is different than an officially atheist Communist government, but power corrupts no matter whether it's carried out with ideology or a holy book.

Communism, at least Marxist-Leninism...snip

So the differences in outcomes are largely due to education? Young Iranians are pretty well educated, at least in a relative sense, no? Many go off to foreign universities. Thus, by your analogies, then the current revolution has a good chance of success?

SupremeLeader: So this is Iran's Tiananmen Square.

They'll erase the atrocities from the official history books and the next generation will grow up ignorant, materialistic, and unaware.

Just as in China and the West.

But not unwilling to resist, even if no-one hears about it. Ten days ago I got word (and a link to some photographs) from a source in China reporting unrest in Hubei province, to which the Chinese government had apparently responded in typical fashion by shutting down the Internet and sending in the troops. In comparison to what we've seen come out of Iran lately, the photos are relatively tame (though there's a nice batch of wreckage in the streets halfway down the page). Now, I've seen some modest reporting on this situation since then, but certainly not via mainstream American news. That doesn't mean that the unrest hasn't happened, that 10,000 people didn't protest, or burn police cars (according to my source) and break stuff, and it doesn't mean that China doesn't experience other, similar incidents with some frequency, it just means that the average American hasn't heard about it, and that the Chinese government has been relatively successful in keeping Chinese people from drumming up support for such protests via the Internet.

While people in China (and the West) might well be ignorant of prior government abuses due to whitewashing and media censorship (whether state-inflicted, corporate sponsor-inflicted, or self-inflicted), and people everywhere care first and foremost about filling their bellies and looking out for the material comforts of themselves and their families, sooner or later oppressed people chafe beneath the yoke again, and try to put aside the burden of that oppression.

These things do not spring up out of nowhere, overnight. Even rebellions that seem swift and sudden have a long and often hidden history. The first shot fired in the American Revolution was in 1772, four years before the Declaration of Independence and the official rejection of British rule.

This is not over, and the seeds planted at Tiananmen are not dead, only dormant, perhaps barely that.

The Iranians of the Green Revolution asked us to witness their struggle for a reason. We can snark all we want about the impotence of FARK and Twitter nerd rage, but passing on the word might well be the best thing we do.

/If we're going to sit here growing fat in front of the computer, we might as well make ourselves useful.
//After an insomniac night on FARK and Twitter, bed would be useful too...
///505th night watch signing out...

The Sea of Green is ebbing right now, but in due time the tide will rise again.

MmmmBacon: The Sea of Green is ebbing right now, but in due time the tide will rise again.

Yeah, when the full moon of Amadouchbag's ass shows up again. He can't seem to resist it.

Ah, another thread where the "Bomb Iran" crowd acts like they care about these people.

Outrage. Grr

CayceP: Tatsuma: 30th of June

- The Intelligence Minister has declared that some arrested will not be released. The protesters arrested were divided in three groups:
▪ Those who participated and had a hand in the decision-making process regarding the unrest. They will remain under custody until a decision is made as to their fate, and whether they could receive the death penalty.
▪ The anti-revolutionary demonstrators who took advantage of the situation. They will not be freed.
▪ Those who were influenced by the atmosphere. They will be released, if they have not yet been released.
In reaction to the arrest of the British embassy members, the majority of the European Union's members will recall their ambassadors as early as this weekend.

I'm willing to bet that by 'three groups' they actually mean one, and will hang almost everyone.

No, influenced by the atmosphere means someone willing to kiss the ass of the government, provide names and addresses of friends, etc etc. Or possibly the rare case of some tourist wondering around the crowds...

HotWingConspiracy: Ah, another thread where the "Bomb Iran" crowd acts like they care about these people.

Outrage. Grr

Ah, another thread that has died down to the point that someone feels like they need to stoke the coals a little. And here I was, about to go get my comforter.

I used to care, until I'd realized we need to be protesting in THIS country.

I mean the USSA. Yes, I went there. All you people that think there's nothing wrong with communism, and swears obama isn't doing everything exactly like the commies are, know nothing about communism and dont give a shiat about anyone else but themselves.

I'm both an ex-commie and an ex-John Bircher (commies took THAT over too with silly distractions about flouride and UFOs to keep people off politics).

Not to threadjack, but to all the folks who cry that having a firearm doesn't help against tanks in the gun threads, I'd bet a lot of those poor Iranians wish that they had our level of access to weapons.

So they got a suspended sentence then?

Viss: I used to care, until I'd realized we need to be protesting in THIS country.

I mean the USSA. Yes, I went there.

Wow man, that's edgy.

All you people that think there's nothing wrong with communism, and swears obama isn't doing everything exactly like the commies are, know nothing about communism and dont give a shiat about anyone else but themselves.

Yeah. Commies. Good luck with that.

BTW, not giving a shiat about anyone else but yourself is a huge advantage in a capitalist system.

Lawful_Evil_Paladin: I don't know what is worse, the fact that due to decades of mangled foreign policy we are completely unable to provide any meaningful aid, or that we as a nation are perfectly content to watch another Iran slowly tear itself apart. I guess the only consolation is that if we don't act in this situation whatever comes out in the end won't be tainted by western interests.

Yeah, completely blame us for our bad relationship with Iran. It isn't like they are an evil, authoritarian government.

Hotwingconspiracy:

Sorry, but I dont have the capacity nor the personal constitution to give a ^#%$ about more than a few people outside my family.

Do you?

Did you cry when Billy Mays died?

I'm not evil for not giving a crap about some idiot yelling at me to buy his crap on TV.

Besides, this isnt a capitalist country any more. GM. 'nuff said.

Lawful_Evil_Paladin: I don't know what is worse, the fact that due to decades of mangled foreign policy we are completely unable to provide any meaningful aid, or that we as a nation are perfectly content to watch another Iran slowly tear itself apart. I guess the only consolation is that if we don't act in this situation whatever comes out in the end won't be tainted by western interests.

What country is providing meaningful aid?

What country has such a great relationship with Iran that they can provide meaningful aid?

Viss: Hotwingconspiracy:

Sorry, but I dont have the capacity nor the personal constitution to give a ^#%$ about more than a few people outside my family.

Do you?

Did you cry when Billy Mays died?

I'm not evil for not giving a crap about some idiot yelling at me to buy his crap on TV.

Besides, this isnt a capitalist country any more. GM. 'nuff said.

Then what was the point of saying Communists only care...you know what, forget I said anything.

I'm going to bed. Goodnight everyone.

Hmmm, brutal oppression of the people of Iran. That worked out well for the Shah too, didn't it?

Viss: Hotwingconspiracy:

Sorry, but I dont have the capacity nor the personal constitution to give a ^#%$ about more than a few people outside my family.

So by your own standard you're a communist. Ok.

Do you?

Yes.

Did you cry when Billy Mays died?

No, I built a small shrine out of Mighty Putty.

I'm not evil for not giving a crap about some idiot yelling at me to buy his crap on TV.

Ok.

Besides, this isnt a capitalist country any more. GM. 'nuff said.

Well yes, I suppose if you want to ignore all the countless other private businesses in America your point could stand.

FarknGroovn: Hmmm, brutal oppression of the people of Iran. That worked out well for the Shah too, didn't it?

Yes, but to their mind (A-jad, Khamenei, and the current Iranian gov't), it's OK because they're the good guys. They're devout Shi'a Muslims and not backed by the US and Britain like the Shah was.

ruthlessliberal: HotWingConspiracy: Besides, this isnt a capitalist country any more. GM. 'nuff said.

lern 2 quote

This makes me sad.

luckyeddie: So they got a suspended sentence then?

Zing!
The legal system left them hanging in limbo.

But what about the Neverland memorial for Jacko? Let's get our priorities straight here people. Are you not (mostly) Americans? Why care about the brown sand people?

this is why i say we should have invaded.

Something odd about the fact that this makes the brazillionth Iranian election green-light and yet not one regarding Honduras, that I've see at least.

Nick Nostril: Why care about the brown sand people?

Wouldn't have to if the UK hadn't been caring a whole lot about them through the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries.

Xionicist:

But not unwilling to resist, even if no-one hears about it. Ten days ago I got word (and a link to some photographs) from a source in China reporting unrest in Hubei province, to which the Chinese government had apparently responded in typical fashion by shutting down the Internet and sending in the troops. In comparison to what we've seen come out of Iran lately, the photos are relatively tame (though there's a nice batch of wreckage in the streets halfway down the page). Now, I've seen some modest reporting on this situation since then, but certainly not via mainstream American news. That doesn't mean that the unrest hasn't happened, that 10,000 people didn't protest, or burn police cars (according to my source) and break stuff, and it doesn't mean that China doesn't experience other, similar incidents with some frequency, it just means that the average American hasn't heard about it, and that the Chinese government has been relatively successful in keeping Chinese people from drumming up support for such protests via the Internet.

[snip]...

/nice to see this info appearing here and there on the net
//someday china will be free

FarknGroovn: Hmmm, brutal oppression of the people of Iran. That worked out well for the Shah too, didn't it?

Brutal opression is only wrong if the west is involved.

AstroCreep_KY: Something odd about the fact that this makes the brazillionth Iranian election green-light and yet not one regarding Honduras, that I've see at least.



Nothing odd about Neo-Con fetishes. Or at least I've been acclimated at this point -- that's kinda scary.

DarnoKonrad: AstroCreep_KY: Something odd about the fact that this makes the brazillionth Iranian election green-light and yet not one regarding Honduras, that I've see at least.



Nothing odd about Neo-Con fetishes. Or at least I've been acclimated at this point -- that's kinda scary.


I'll take that as a non answer.

AstroCreep_KY: Something odd about the fact that this makes the brazillionth Iranian election green-light and yet not one regarding Honduras, that I've see at least.

Well, there was one official about Honduras, and we discussed it in a second one unofficially.

Also, unlike Iran, the pro-Democracy forces in Honduras have already won...

AstroCreep_KY: DarnoKonrad: AstroCreep_KY: Something odd about the fact that this makes the brazillionth Iranian election green-light and yet not one regarding Honduras, that I've see at least.



Nothing odd about Neo-Con fetishes. Or at least I've been acclimated at this point -- that's kinda scary.


I'll take that as a non answer.



Okay. All the concern is about a particular region of the world that has large reserves of dinosaur wine. Neo-Cons in their infinite wisdom, prefer Freedom Wine^TM to regular old wine.

Honduras doens't have shiat but brown people and bananas. And Freedom Bananas^TM have been good since Dole freedomized the shiat out of tropical fruit market in the last century.

AstroCreep_KY: Something odd about the fact that this makes the brazillionth Iranian election green-light and yet not one regarding Honduras, that I've see at least.

O RLY? ^{(^)}

liam76: FarknGroovn: Hmmm, brutal oppression of the people of Iran. That worked out well for the Shah too, didn't it?

Brutal opression is only wrong if the west is involved.

Yeah, apparently in that their world violence is just fine, as long as it is perpetrated by other Muslims. It's the Middle Eastern equilvalent of using the n-word.

/Hates the N-Word
//Hates Iranian domestic policy even more

Tatsuma: the pro-Democracy forces in Honduras have already won...shiatting on the constitution and installing a dictator militarily elected president is not Democracy.

DarnoKonrad: Wouldn't have to if the UK hadn't been caring a whole lot about them through the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries.

I love it when liberals quote right-wing apologetics.

But we only have a Global empire because they had a global empire. We're a force for good, donchaknow!

I'm sure Panama and Nicaragua will be happy to learn that the US was so caring to them only because of the lack of care provided by the British in previous centuries.

I'm a little late to this thread, so this might get buried... but I've been harping on the whole Red Cross/Red Crescent thing long enough for you guys to get tired of it, I'm sure.

But!

I have a little more information, and it's bothering me a bit.

First of all, for those who missed it, the American Red Cross released a statement saying that donations will not be sent to Red Crescent Iran. Nothing at all will get there. I don't understand why they're saying this now, when just a few days ago I was told that money would get to Iran... but there it is and I'm sorry that I gave out bad information. Some of you donated money in good faith, and my next job is to find out what will be done with that money. Maybe it can be refunded? I am so sorry.

The link for the statement is here: http://redcrosschat.org/2009/06/29/clarification-on-situation-in-iran/

Part of that statement is a quote from the Red Crescent -

"The Iranian government's Emergency Center of the Ministry of Health is responsible for treating people who have been injured or affected by the emerging situation in Iran following the recent general elections. The Iranian Red Crescent is not involved in the response but has supplied the Emergency Center, based on their request, with ambulances to be put under the government's authority."

The thing that's been bugging me is the part about the government being responsible for the treatment of the protesters. I wonder if the corruption and cruelty has filtered down to the Ministry of Health, and what kind of care the injured are getting.

I don't know enough about how the system is set up in Iran, and there's nothing I can do about it in any case, but I'm a worrier.

All the information I have on the subject can be found at http://generalkaty.blogspot.com/

There's also a bit about another charity, Avaaz.org, which was co-founded by MoveOn.org (so at least it's a known entity) and referenced by Nico Pitney of HuffPo. Have any of you checked this one out? Are they worthwhile? They seem legit to me, but I don't want to urge people to donate unless I am 100% sure the money will go where it's supposed to.

Again, I am so sorry.

Tatsuma: AstroCreep_KY: Something odd about the fact that this makes the brazillionth Iranian election green-light and yet not one regarding Honduras, that I've see at least.

Well, there was one official about Honduras, and we discussed it in a second one unofficially.

Also, unlike Iran, the pro-Democracy forces in Honduras have already won...

I'm not trying to morph this thread, so this will be it on the issue from me, but there's been nothing on the main page about it and while I admit it's a secondary story to Iran it should be bigger news than it is considering so many are coming down on the wrong side of the issue.

Tatsuma: Occam's Chainsaw: Why has no one given A-jad an acute case of lead poisoning yet?

I think the solution is a Mussolini extra-strength, frankly.

They'd just be wasting their time. If they were going to do it, they would need to do it to the whole supreme council. A-jad is just a low level bagman. He's the chump in the front, not the mack in the back.

AstroCreep_KY: while I admit it's a secondary story to Iran it should be bigger news than it is considering so many are coming down on the wrong side of the issue.

Agreed. I must say I'm puzzled by the international reaction as well, but let's stay focused on Iran, we get so few greenlights nowadays.

Goodfella: They'd just be wasting their time. If they were going to do it, they would need to do it to the whole supreme council. A-jad is just a low level bagman. He's the chump in the front, not the mack in the back.

Oh, trust me, I recommend that for any case of severe Khamenei, and anywhere similar symptoms might develop.

DarnoKonrad: Tatsuma: the pro-Democracy forces in Honduras have already won...shiatting on the constitution and installing a dictator militarily elected president is not Democracy.

Democracy doesn't mean the presidnet can dop what he wants.

The congress, the Supreme court and the Attorney General, not just the military approve of the new president.

And Obama remains silent... yet very vocal about the supreme court of another country removing a law breaking president. Clueless

liam76: DarnoKonrad: Tatsuma: the pro-Democracy forces in Honduras have already won...shiatting on the constitution and installing a dictator militarily elected president is not Democracy.

Democracy doesn't mean the presidnet can dop what he wants.

The congress, the Supreme court and the Attorney General, not just the military approve of the new president.

Oh yeah, and what he did (try to change constitution so he could get re-elected) directly violated the constitution, which states anyone doing so should be immediately removed from office.

<b>Tatsuma</b>: the pro-Democracy forces in Honduras have already won...shiatting on the constitution and installing a dictator militarily elected president is not Democracy.

Tatsuma: the pro-Democracy forces in Honduras have already won...shiatting on the constitution and installing a dictator militarily elected president is not Democracy.

Normally i agree with Tats but he is obviously smoking his breakfast today.

Viss: Hotwingconspiracy:

Sorry, but I dont have the capacity nor the personal constitution to give a ^#%$ about more than a few people outside my family.

Do you?

Did you cry when Billy Mays died?

I'm not evil for not giving a crap about some idiot yelling at me to buy his crap on TV.

Besides, this isnt a capitalist country any more. GM. 'nuff said.

I think he was pointing out that you're a hypocrite. This country has always been a mix of capitalism/socialism. Always will be. We haven't quite reached the level we had with FDR, will we? do we need to? I don't know. Unfettered capitalism is not the answer, complete socialism is not the answer. No *one* on the left is preaching complete socialism. The warrhgbrl screed from the right declaring everything as slide towards complete communism/socialism, provides absolutely nothing to the debate. So stop, make rational points argue from facts offer alternatives. Do something productive, or shut up.

Joe Blowme: And Obama remains silent... yet very vocal about the supreme court of another country removing a law breaking president. Clueless

Why can't people understand that the best thing we can do, officially, is STFU.

You think him saying anything is actually going to do ANY GOOD?

Joe Blowme: Normally i agree with Tats but he is obviously smoking his breakfast today.

Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution

"The citizen who has carried out the ownership of the Executive authority could not be President or Vice-president of the Republic. The one that break this disposition or propose its reform, as well as those supports that it direct or indirectly, will stop immediately in the performance of their respective positions and will be disqualified by ten (10) years for the exercise of all public function."

/via babbelfish, spanish source here http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Honduras/hond05.html

By proposing a referendum which might allow him to run for president again he violated the constitution.

Screw them; they can only blame them selves.

liam76: Oh yeah, and what he did (try to change constitution so he could get re-elected) directly violated the constitution, which states anyone doing so should be immediately removed from office.

and he was going to be let off the hook for it, he was merely told to stop his plans and not to go ahead by the Supreme Court, that it was illegal and that's it.

Yet he decided to go ahead and violate the Honduran constitution so he could install himself as a Chavez-style leader over Honduras. So the Supreme Court, as well as the leaders of all parties in Congress, decided to take action and remove him from power, and a near-absolute majority voted that way in Congress the next day as well.

The man installed to replace him is the one who is set to replace the President if something happens to him, based on the Constitution of Honduras.

It's a triumph for Democracy, especially Democracies in South/Central America, where the climate is much more fickle for them.

liam76:

The congress, the Supreme court and the Attorney General, not just the military approve of the new president.



They should have used the rule of law. This was nothing but coup.

liam76: Joe Blowme: Normally i agree with Tats but he is obviously smoking his breakfast today.

Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution

"The citizen who has carried out the ownership of the Executive authority could not be President or Vice-president of the Republic. The one that break this disposition or propose its reform, as well as those supports that it direct or indirectly, will stop immediately in the performance of their respective positions and will be disqualified by ten (10) years for the exercise of all public function."

/via babbelfish, spanish source here http://pdba.georgetown.edu/Constitutions/Honduras/hond05.html

By proposing a referendum which might allow him to run for president again he violated the constitution.

And now he is paying the price i cant believe the US would not support the rule of law... opps sorry forgot we have chicago politician in the white house, maybe they should have said the unions forced him out.

DarnoKonrad: They should have used the rule of law. This was nothing but coup.

Read the constitution.

They did use the rule of law.

The president broke the rule of law by trying to have the referendum, and he broke it again when he dismissed the head of the military who wouldn't follow his unlawful order.


As I said above simply because he is the presidnet and democratically elected doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants. What we saw was checks and balances playing out in a democratic govt. Just because you have a hard on for this Chavez want-to-be and it was the military who removed him doesn't make it un-lawful, or undemocratic.

liam76: Article 239 of the Honduran Constitution

Article 42 opens the possibility that one may lose Honduran citizenship if he tries to support or promote re-election of the President, and Article 374 makes it illegal to reform the position of President, term limit and re-election.

Tatsuma: the pro-Democracy forces in Honduras have already won...shiatting on the constitution and installing a dictator militarily elected president is not Democracy.



I mistook that for suport of teh ousted president, sorry Tats

Lol.

Is this the XXXXXVVVICCCCC thread or wut?

StochasticLife: Joe Blowme: And Obama remains silent... yet very vocal about the supreme court of another country removing a law breaking president. Clueless

Why can't people understand that the best thing we can do, officially, is STFU.

You think him saying anything is actually going to do ANY GOOD?


Makes you wonder why he very vocal about another country that got rid of a dictator wannabe.

liam76: They did use the rule of law.

Which is why it's universally condemned as a subversion of the rule of law?

Fark Authoritarians and their new-speak. Coup is rule of law.

You guys are real winners.

Tatsuma. In every single Muslim/Middle Eastern related topic.

Hmm suspicious.

Ok can we leave the Honduras discussion alone and go back to Iran please?

Kyoki: Not to threadjack, but to all the folks who cry that having a firearm doesn't help against tanks in the gun threads, I'd bet a lot of those poor Iranians wish that they had our level of access to weapons.

I have always been fine with access to some weapons here in the US - what we have now is really ok with me, give or take a little either way. That said, the right to bear (small) arms doesn't matter in the context of revolution anymore. The problem is that had the protesters gone all wolverines on the Basij, the army probably would not have been able to remain neutral. With running gun battles in the streets, commanders (and private soldiers) would have felt a lot more justified and moral about firing on them.

Of course, without guns they were pretty much impotent to do any serious escalation anyway.

What interests me is that if there really were millions of people protesting just in Tehran, are they really going to sit down and shut up now that the government is really cracking down and not giving any concessions at all?

DarnoKonrad: Which is why it's universally condemned as a subversion of the rule of law?

Fark Authoritarians and their new-speak. Coup is rule of law.

You guys are real winners.

So if Bush came out in direct contradiction of the constitution and declared martial law after McCain lost, said he was going to keep the presidency, told the military to enforce his will, and then fired the head Joint Chiefs of Staff when he wouldn't listen to him. Would you call it a coup if the military listened to congress, and the supreme court and kicked the president out?

DarnoKonrad: liam76: They did use the rule of law.

Which is why it's universally condemned as a subversion of the rule of law?

Fark Authoritarians and their new-speak. Coup is rule of law.

You guys are real winners.


Coups usually overthrow a government and install some form of dictatorship. In this case, their Supreme Court, their Congress including the ousted President's party and the military all deemed his planned ballot illegal. Nothing else has changed except for the President that was trying to allow himself to be elected for more terms than allowed.

The "Tree of Liberty" letter
From Thomas Jefferson to William Smith
Paris, November 13, 1787

"...What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure."


So who's gonna step up and be the Persian Jefferson? Also, what's the FedEx rate for AK47's from the US to Iran?

liam76: DarnoKonrad: Which is why it's universally condemned as a subversion of the rule of law?

Fark Authoritarians and their new-speak. Coup is rule of law.

You guys are real winners.

So if Bush came out in direct contradiction of the constitution and declared martial law after McCain lost, said he was going to keep the presidency, told the military to enforce his will, and then fired the head Joint Chiefs of Staff when he wouldn't listen to him. Would you call it a coup if the military listened to congress, and the supreme court and kicked the president out?

To hell with your bizarre analogies. The day congress impotently lets the military do its dirty work is the day I get the hell out of this country. You farkers are scary. Batshiat insane.

Brooking Institution scholar and former Costa Rican minister of planning Kevin Casas Zamora, no fan of Zelaya, came to this conclusion in a piece for FP yesterday: (new window)

An illegal referendum has met an illegal military intervention, with the avowed intention of protecting the Constitution. Zelaya's civilian opponents, meanwhile, are celebrating. For the past week, the Honduran Congress has waxed lyrical about the armed forces as the guarantors of the Constitution, a disturbing notion for Latin Americans. At the very least, we are witnessing in Honduras the return of the unfortunate role of the military as the ultimate referee in political conflicts among civilian leaders, a huge step back in the region's consolidation of democracy.

That's why Zelaya, though he bears by far the greater responsibility for this crisis, must be reinstated in his position as the legitimate president of Honduras. The Organization of American States, the neighboring countries, and the U.S. government (which is still enormously influential in Honduras) should demand no less. They should also call upon all political actors in Honduras to take a deep breath and do what mature democracies do: allow the law to deal with those who try to step outside it. If Zelaya must be prosecuted for his harebrained attempt to subvert the Honduran Constitution, then let the courts proceed as rigorously as possible. And the same applies to the coup perpetrators. If Honduras is to have a decent future, its politicians and soldiers, in equal measure, must learn that the road to democracy and development runs through the rule of law.

This was the inevitable conclusion to this mess.

Jesus farking Christ.

Another major victory for the Obama Administration.

StochasticLife [TotalFark] Quote 2009-07-01 09:03:37 AM
Joe Blowme: And Obama remains silent... yet very vocal about the supreme court of another country removing a law breaking president. Clueless

Why can't people understand that the best thing we can do, officially, is STFU.

mamoru: Tatsuma: 30th of June

Thanks for the update. Also, for some companion reading, Green Brief #14 (30 June) (^) is also up.

somedude210: any word from PK?

No, not yet. Just the semi-but-not-completely confirmed reports that PK is not under arrest, but merely offline and unable to get back online.

No noose is good noose, right?

atlanta_ufo: Coups usually overthrow a government and install some form of dictatorship. In this case, their Supreme Court, their Congress including the ousted President's party and the military all deemed his planned ballot illegal. Nothing else has changed except for the President that was trying to allow himself to be elected for more terms than allowed.

The rule of law demands due process. The opposite to the rule of law is to say the ends justify the means.

He should be reinstated and congress should do it's job by impeaching his ass if they want to get rid of him.

Both Ceaser and Napoleon did what they did with support from politicians and claimed to be champions of the republic.

If you want to live in a Democracy, you don't make the military a tool of arbitration. It's an incredibly bad precedent.

Tatsuma: According to Ahmadinejad, the following countries have recognized him: India, Tunisia, Malaysia, Lebanon, North Korea, Kuwait, Nicaragua, Comoros, Cambodia, , Senegal, Cuba, Belarus, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Algeria, Turkmenistan, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Bahrain, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Ecuador, Russia, Azerbaijan, Qatar, Tajikistan, Armenia, Oman, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China and Venezuela

Wow, he has all the winners on his side.

/throws up

idiomagic: This is a terrible thing for the people, but, in the long run, good news for the revolution as a whole.

Khameni has made serious missteps in this by not maintaining his public neutrality. A-jad has made the huge mistake of endorsing the brutality and in so blatantly rigging the election.

Each new act of brutality and repression further calls into question the legitimacy of not just the leaders but the system and the regime as a whole.

K and A still don't seem to realize that they have crossed the line, that they can never recover from their blunders. It may take months or even years, but they are doomed and so is the whole Islamic system of government in Iran.

I still find it hard to understand how they could have made so many idiotic moves...everything they do or say simply adds new recruits to the protesters and their cause.

I agree. These acts don't go unnoticed in Iran. The more they show their contempt of the people and even some of the respected clerics, the sooner the end of the Islamic "Republic" will arrive.

Malachesque:

No apologies necessary; it's not your fault you were given the wrong info, and many of us here appreciate all the extra legwork you've done re: Red Cross/Red Crescent donations. I suspect the RC/RC probably did intend to funnel donation money/med. supplies to Iran until they found out about human rights abuses currently going on in Iranian hospitals (i.e. Basij diverting ambulances to detention centers, Basij abducting people out of hospital beds, etc.) At this point, funding more ambulances just enables more thugs to abuse people.

As for those people claiming "it's over" for the Iranian public, use your heads. The elections were June 12, it's less than 3 weeks later, and you're already calling the game? Gimme a break! Crack open a history book & read about the 1979 revolution (here's a hint: it wasn't over in 3 weeks...) In fact, be prepared for a long & bloody civil war if the asshats in charge refuse to see reason. Their absolute power will corrupt absolutely if they keep it up.

I realise this has now become the Great Honduran Thread, but I'll still post this gem here:

Witness to Neda's Death to be Prosecuted (new window)

Yay? He's lucky to have left the country.

The thing that I wonder is if the Iranian youth are going to treat the world and the US like the Iraqis did post Gulf War 1 - IE we said "fight the good fight, we are here to help you" they fought we didn't help them, Saddam killed them and made the survivors bitter towards us. I am worried that while we didn't say out right "Rise Up" they will be incredibly bitter. They know this is their fight, I just hope that they are busy learning how to become insurgents from their Iraqi brothers right now and we will shortly see fireworks....

wolvernova: Wow, he has all the winners on his side.

Indeed.

wolvernova: Jesus farking Christ.

Pretty much my reaction, yes

ossaFK: Its too bad people in the US don't protest like this against the oppression here. Tens of thousands of innocent people are in our OWN prisons, because of nonsensical "forensic" evidence and prosecutors who just want another conviction under their belt to put on their resumes.

You want to compare civil rights in the U.S. to that in Iran? Fark you. Those people are actively fighting real oppression. Hope you grow out of your hippie phase, dipshiat.

Mongo cut wood: Another major victory for the Obama Administration.

StochasticLife [TotalFark] Quote 2009-07-01 09:03:37 AM
Joe Blowme: And Obama remains silent... yet very vocal about the supreme court of another country removing a law breaking president. Clueless

Why can't people understand that the best thing we can do, officially, is STFU.

I suggest you learn a little of American history regarding Iranian relations, and understanding that with the current rhetoric in Iran why our intervention would only be a temporary fix, if it fixes anything at all. You, sir, your cranium firmly planted in your colon.

Delores De Syn: become the Great Honduran Thread

People who want to make it about Honduras, we already have a thread there, so please keep it confined there.

People are being hanged in Iran, I think this deserves a discussion.

DarnoKonrad:
To hell with your bizarre analogies. The day congress impotently lets the military do its dirty work is the day I get the hell out of this country. You farkers are scary. Batshiat insane.

Brooking Institution scholar and former Costa Rican minister of planning Kevin Casas Zamora, no fan of Zelaya, came to this conclusion in a piece for FP yesterday: (new window)

An illegal referendum has met an illegal military intervention, with the avowed intention of protecting the Constitution. Zelaya's civilian opponents, meanwhile, are celebrating. For the past week, the Honduran Congress has waxed lyrical about the armed forces as the guarantors of the Constitution, a disturbing notion for Latin Americans. At the very least, we are witnessing in Honduras the return of the unfortunate role of the military as the ultimate referee in political conflicts among civilian leaders, a huge step back in the region's consolidation of democracy.

That's why Zelaya, though he bears by far the greater responsibility for this crisis, must be reinstated in his position as the legitimate president of Honduras. The Organization of American States, the neighboring countries, and the U.S. government (which is still enormously influential in Honduras) should demand no less. They should also call upon all political actors in Honduras to take a deep breath and do what mature democracies do: allow the law to deal with those who try to step outside it. If Zelaya must be prosecuted for his harebrained attempt to subvert the Honduran Constitution, then let the courts proceed as rigorously as possible. And the same applies to the coup perpetrators. If Honduras is to have a decent future, its politicians and soldiers, in equal measure, must learn that the road to democracy and development runs through the rule of law.

If the military were the referees they would be making the calls.

They aren't.

They are following the orders of the supreme court.

Even if we are going to pretend that the Supreme Court didn't order this before hand, the Congress voted unanimously to remove the presidnet.

What would be the point of returning him there if the Supreme court and the congress has said his removal was lawful? Who decides what is lawful in a country? I would think the elected legislators and appointed (or maybe elected) Judges in that country would be better at interpreting their laws than people ont heoutside.

have* your cranium, even

Thanks, Obama!

wolvernova: You want to compare civil rights in the U.S. to that in Iran? Fark you. Those people are actively fighting real oppression. Hope you grow out of your hippie phase, dipshiat.

No way man, like, you know, people busted for smoking a bit of mary j are all like, totally in the same situation as like, people getting killed because they want their votes counted and shiat. It's the same, man! Also, like DNA? Whatever man, whats that supposed to prove exactly? You believe that, like, its a good science because thats like what they say on tv and shiat.

Sheeple.

bookman: Thanks, Obama!

While people who want to discuss Honduras can go to the appropriate thread and people who truly blame can go to Free Republic, trolls can go fark themselves.

fark aminedejad, fark him right in his ear

/4.0
/yardale

DarnoKonrad: atlanta_ufo: Coups usually overthrow a government and install some form of dictatorship. In this case, their Supreme Court, their Congress including the ousted President's party and the military all deemed his planned ballot illegal. Nothing else has changed except for the President that was trying to allow himself to be elected for more terms than allowed.

The rule of law demands due process. The opposite to the rule of law is to say the ends justify the means.

He should be reinstated and congress should do it's job by impeaching his ass if they want to get rid of him.

Both Ceaser and Napoleon did what they did with support from politicians and claimed to be champions of the republic.

If you want to live in a Democracy, you don't make the military a tool of arbitration. It's an incredibly bad precedent.


It looks like time was of the essence. The Honduran Supreme Court has said the military was acting on their orders when he was arrested, I believe, only hours before he planned to hold an unofficial vote to determine support for him to change Honduran law and run for re-election. After the event, the elected Honduran Congress gave the military a standing ovation. Looks like Zelaya was pissing everyone off, they removed him and flew him to the country of his choice. Things don't work in other countries like the U.S., so hard to judge them totally on how we would do an impeachment.

Honduras be hanged, this is an Iran thread!


Any reliable confirmation of hangings?

An anonymous phone call to one of the most anti-Iranian newspapers in the world, making a completely unsubstantiated and very unlikely claim, and ALL of you believe it without a single question? WTF is wrong with you Farkers? I'm not saying it's impossible - the Iranian government is crazy enough to do anything. But as of now, this claim looks very fishy. What's much, much more likely is that it was simply a discontented Mousavi supporter spreading misinformation.

orsonwagon: It's like they're part of some kind of axis of evil or something.

I thought he said they were part of the Axle of Eva. What is that some new kind of hybrid vehicle?

I've been reading these threads since this start, and the boasting snarks saying "Ha, see I told you Twitter wouldn't topple the revolution," are really missing out on what Twitter was actually doing, in the historic context of revolutions and the ever expanding global awareness facilitated by the internet. Without Twitter, the only information coming out of Iran would be what the Iranian government would be releasing. Yes, of course there was a lot of misinformation, but there were also many up to the hour updates that appear to have been accurate representations of what was happening in a country otherwise closed off to the world. Did I or anyone else ever expect Twitter alone to topple a regime? No. No one did, but it was instrumental in keeping the world informed which is an important aspect of any oppressed group; having their voices heard by others other than their oppressors. It was the kind of dissemination that has never been seen before in the context of international affairs, and that's pretty important; a modern day grass roots. 10 years ago this wouldn't have likely been possible.

And, if as you say, it was completely inconsequential, why is it then that Iran is forming an "online espionage" task force?

Ugh. This is, like, so hard to follow. Big words and stuff. Can we talk about whether MJ's kids were really his kids? Guys?

Or maybe the situation in Iran? Earlier on, someone pointed out that the hangings were reported by an Israeli paper, but even if that was only propaganda - although I doubt it - and no one has been executed yet, they're bound to start soon. At least then they can pretend they're doing the right thing, having tried and all.

Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

sorry, the "revolution" is over. the mass media has officially declared it a failure.

you can thank Michael Jackson for pushing out the important iran stories.

sucks for all those people who actually thought they were making a difference.

HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

Well, to a point I understand it as a reminder that it isn't good when only a single group is allowed to arm themselves. I don't think many Americans want the guns only in the hands of the government, though, so I do think it's a bit of an alarmist reaction. All the same, a good reminder why it's a bad idea.

Delores De Syn: having tried and all.

Having tried them.

Now, this may have been mentioned elsewhere (via IB and Pitney), but the Iranian voters really like to keep their sheets in good condition. Link (new window)

spartywrx: Also, what's the FedEx rate for AK47's from the US to Iran?

Probably 10 years for aiding a terrorist state...

gulogulo: I've been reading these threads since this start, and the boasting snarks saying "Ha, see I told you Twitter wouldn't topple the revolution," are really missing out on what Twitter was actually doing, in the historic context of revolutions and the ever expanding global awareness facilitated by the internet. Without Twitter, the only information coming out of Iran would be what the Iranian government would be releasing. Yes, of course there was a lot of misinformation, but there were also many up to the hour updates that appear to have been accurate representations of what was happening in a country otherwise closed off to the world. Did I or anyone else ever expect Twitter alone to topple a regime? No. No one did, but it was instrumental in keeping the world informed which is an important aspect of any oppressed group; having their voices heard by others other than their oppressors. It was the kind of dissemination that has never been seen before in the context of international affairs, and that's pretty important; a modern day grass roots. 10 years ago this wouldn't have likely been possible.

And, if as you say, it was completely inconsequential, why is it then that Iran is forming an "online espionage" task force?


Great post. Twitter got the word out, but the outside world appeared helpless to do anything.

cyberfr0g: sorry, the "revolution" is over. the mass media has officially declared it a failure.

you can thank Michael Jackson for pushing out the important iran stories.

sucks for all those people who actually thought they were making a difference.

Ahh, the Fark cynic. Who will jump in tell you that you were wrong while all the long he knew better.

I think the revolution has been suppressed, but I think it is really naive to think it's over. It'll go quiet, maybe even sleep for a year or two, maybe more, but for the people who were harmed the feeling of resentment isn't going to go away. When it does resurface (and it will eventually) it'll be the same revolution as before, the issues being contested. Why do you think China restricted the media coverage out of Iran? Because all their revolutionaries have gone away and perfectly contented citizens now?

/sad

isn't more of Iran's style to hang these people in public? You don't get much for hanging them in private except a spare prison cell.

Anyone shutter at the thought that GWB was right? Iran really *is* an axis of evil.

atlanta_ufo: Great post. Twitter got the word out, but the outside world appeared helpless to do anything.

As is generally the case. The post you quoted was right, Twitter got the information out, and that information has had a ripple effect all across the Middle East. Democratic activists all over have seen the Iranians stand up for their rights and are now wondering "Why not us?"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31559156/ns/world_news-washington_post/

The revolution is not over, it has only begun, it just doesn't operate on our Commercial Break ADD time line. It will be a year or two before things really heat up - not to mention, what will happen next election eh? Will there even be one now that Khomenei has seen what happens? Would he risk it again? Will he attempt to throw away the Republican facade and just make it a dictatorship?

Still lots of things to happen so just be patient :)

And this is a secret if it is on Fark? Man, those Iranian authorities have some work to do.

chasd00: isn't more of Iran's style to hang these people in public? You don't get much for hanging them in private except a spare prison cell.

Anyone shutter at the thought that GWB was right? Iran really *is* an axis of evil.

If they were outright traitors, calling for the demise of the Revolution and the Islamic Republic, yes.
They aren't. Thus, hanging them is less a thing to be made into spectacle and more a shameful act to hide the failure of the state.

atlanta_ufo: gulogulo: I've been reading these threads since this start, and the boasting snarks saying "Ha, see I told you Twitter wouldn't topple the revolution," are really missing out on what Twitter was actually doing, in the historic context of revolutions and the ever expanding global awareness facilitated by the internet. Without Twitter, the only information coming out of Iran would be what the Iranian government would be releasing. Yes, of course there was a lot of misinformation, but there were also many up to the hour updates that appear to have been accurate representations of what was happening in a country otherwise closed off to the world. Did I or anyone else ever expect Twitter alone to topple a regime? No. No one did, but it was instrumental in keeping the world informed which is an important aspect of any oppressed group; having their voices heard by others other than their oppressors. It was the kind of dissemination that has never been seen before in the context of international affairs, and that's pretty important; a modern day grass roots. 10 years ago this wouldn't have likely been possible.

And, if as you say, it was completely inconsequential, why is it then that Iran is forming an "online espionage" task force?


Great post. Twitter got the word out, but the outside world appeared helpless to do anything.

Thanks. I agree, that is frustrating, but in an indirect way what we did do was listen and share. That it is now forever in the public record will make it difficult for Iran to rewrite the text books and have it stick. Of course, they'll try.

"There was no independent confirmation of the report."

so in basically this is a glorified twitter message, not a news article. yay for journalistic integrity!

This is going about how I expected, just taking longer. Those kids have a limmited window here to start suicide bombings and assasinations or they might as well start running for the exits out of the country now.

Or do some of you still think flowers and puppydogs are still the way to overthrow a fanatical fundementalist dictatorship?

gulogulo: Ahh, the Fark cynic. Who will jump in tell you that you were wrong while all the long he knew better.

I think the revolution has been suppressed, but I think it is really naive to think it's over. It'll go quiet, maybe even sleep for a year or two, maybe more, but for the people who were harmed the feeling of resentment isn't going to go away. When it does resurface (and it will eventually) it'll be the same revolution as before, the issues being contested. Why do you think China restricted the media coverage out of Iran? Because all their revolutionaries have gone away and perfectly contented citizens now?

i fully support the iranians in their effort to revolt against tyranny but the reality is that the only way they will win is by taking up arms against their foes (not going to happen) or gaining massive support from the rest of the world.

they had it, they had it for about 4 days, then the hilariously short attention spans of the rest of the world turned to something else more shiny and interesting.

unfortunatly, the only way to get the world interested is for the blood to flow. far more blood then the blood of Neda, may she rest in peace.

idiomagic: This is a terrible thing for the people, but, in the long run, good news for the revolution as a whole.

I still find it hard to understand how they could have made so many idiotic moves...everything they do or say simply adds new recruits to the protesters and their cause.

One word: Narcissism.

Cinaed: chasd00: isn't more of Iran's style to hang these people in public? You don't get much for hanging them in private except a spare prison cell.

Anyone shutter at the thought that GWB was right? Iran really *is* an axis of evil.

If they were outright traitors, calling for the demise of the Revolution and the Islamic Republic, yes.
They aren't. Thus, hanging them is less a thing to be made into spectacle and more a shameful act to hide the failure of the state.

Maybe they're waking up and realise that hanging them in public would only make them martyrs, thus "feeding" the movement.

orclover: This is going about how I expected, just taking longer. Those kids have a limmited window here to start suicide bombings and assasinations or they might as well start running for the exits out of the country now.

Or do some of you still think flowers and puppydogs are still the way to overthrow a fanatical fundementalist dictatorship?

You really don't know anything about those people and their history.

Sad news, but this thing is FAR from over. The people will not forget. I don't anticipate Ahamaegatrgnpafedhg presidency to go smoothly. At all.

the Iranian experts in Washington seem to think there has been an internal coup and that the religious leadership is no longer in control. that means that Ahmadinejad, an ignorant, superstitious, paranoiac guy with a god complex now is in total control of the country. and, ala Stalin and Hitler, he will probably soak the ground of his homeland with the blood of his own people.
like Argentina under the generals, a whole lot of people are going to disappear and the hardest job for the thugs will be figuring out where to hide the bodies.

iceberg theory: "There was no independent confirmation of the report."

so in basically this is a glorified twitter message, not a news article. yay for journalistic integrity!

Kinda par for the course in these threads.

well the obvious solution now is to kill the basij

Tatsuma: According to Ahmadinejad, the following countries have recognized him: India, Tunisia, Malaysia, Lebanon, North Korea, Kuwait, Nicaragua, Comoros, Cambodia, , Senegal, Cuba, Belarus, Sudan, Syria, Libya, Algeria, Turkmenistan, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Indonesia, Bahrain, Yemen, Sri Lanka, Ecuador, Russia, Azerbaijan, Qatar, Tajikistan, Armenia, Oman, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, China and Venezuela



Who the fark said that? Like who? India. Cuba's sending cigars. Stankonia said they're willing to drop bombs over Baghdad. Riggity Row is coming! Afrika Bambata and the Zulu Nation. What I'm sayin' is, I am not doing this by myself and I'm not disrespecting the UN, even though they don't got no army. Go sell some medicine, biatches!

darkvstar: that means that Ahmadinejad, an ignorant, superstitious, paranoiac guy with a god complex now is in total control of the country.

I have some doubts about that, frankly.

Well, not the part about him being ignorant, superstitious and paranoiac with a deity complex, the other last bit

that_other_internet: iceberg theory: "There was no independent confirmation of the report."

so in basically this is a glorified twitter message, not a news article. yay for journalistic integrity!

Kinda par for the course in these threads.

I'm sick of you people constantly biatching about this. If you dont like it, either stay out of the thread, or go find a way to get some information and report on it according to your integrity standards. If you haven't noticed, there is a severe shortage of reporting from this area as most communications have been shut off. Our main stream media isnt even reporting on it any longer. So stop your farking biatching and either go away, or do something about it.


We are simply discussing all that is available to us from this region. Would you prefer that we follow the trend of the media and just ignore the fact that anything is happening simply because we dont have live television feeds and loads of reporters on the ground?

/You dont see it on TV so its not true, and unsubstantiated right?
//fark off already.

wolvernova: orclover: This is going about how I expected, just taking longer. Those kids have a limmited window here to start suicide bombings and assasinations or they might as well start running for the exits out of the country now.

Or do some of you still think flowers and puppydogs are still the way to overthrow a fanatical fundementalist dictatorship?

You really don't know anything about those people and their history.

To be honest I dont really care to either. I do however have a decent grasp on human nature and I know that the current regime wont budge without a half of the mullahs dying.

Hey, they are a sovereign nation - none of our business. Hopey said so.

HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

Tatsuma: kiam: I'm sick of you people

That is pure, 100%-weapons-grade Flawless Victory right there.

/I got banned in your circlejerk thread, you inglorious zionist bastard!
//Two well-placed bullets. . .

Ahmedinejad and the Ayatollah can keep their rule by divine right. Let's send the revolutionaries weapons. We'll see who wins out: Allah or artillery.

cchris_39: Hey, they are a sovereign nation - none of our business. Hopey said so.

As I said before, please look into the history of American-Iranian relations before you make overly simplistic, if not ignorant statements. I don't believe Obama is perfect, but his reaction was appropriate, and in truth, the only action he could take.

Excen: Tatsuma: kiam: I'm sick of you people

That is pure, 100%-weapons-grade Flawless Victory right there.

/I got banned in your circlejerk thread, you inglorious zionist bastard!
//Two well-placed bullets. . .

I'm a catholic playing a jew disguised as an american concerned for the middle east.

Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

rastjr: So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

And you are assuming all 20,000 that die from gunshot wounds are "innocent." Granted, some may be, but I'd be willing to be many are involved in criminal activities when shot.

And to your question, yes, self-defense it is entirely worth it.

rastjr: Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

I am no fan of guns, but that's about the stupidest anti-gun argument I've ever heard.

gulogulo: rastjr: So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

And you are assuming all 20,000 that die from gunshot wounds are "innocent." Granted, some may be, but I'd be willing to be many are involved in criminal activities when shot.

And to your question, yes, self-defense it is entirely worth it.

There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

wolvernova: rastjr: Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

I am no fan of guns, but that's about the stupidest anti-gun argument I've ever heard.

Instead of saying it is stupid why don't you offer a response. Are you afraid that I am right?

rastjr: Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

Of course that's not what I'm saying. My point was, that I think I understand the intended purpose of the 2nd Amendment better than I ever had prior to the situation in Iran.

Unfortunately, I think we've allowed politicians and certain lobbying organizations to bastardize the true intent of the Amendment. I generally agree with your statement re guns for hunting. And if Iranians had been afforded a constitutional right to keep even just one deer rifle or one shotgun (i.e., hunting arms), I suspect that the news would be a lot different today.

rastjr: There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

1. Criminals would get access to guns regardless
2. If they couldn't use guns, they'd use knives or other weapons
3. Crime among "urban youths" is a result of the environment they're raised in, probably a direct result of the "war on drugs"

rastjr: gulogulo: rastjr: So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

And you are assuming all 20,000 that die from gunshot wounds are "innocent." Granted, some may be, but I'd be willing to be many are involved in criminal activities when shot.

And to your question, yes, self-defense it is entirely worth it.

There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

The problem isn't the guns. And no, I am not a gun nut, but it is entirely worth it to me, and if you'd been paying attention, or understood anything about what happens to a populace when they are stripped of the right to defend themselves, you'd understand the importance of it.

Did not mean to turn this into a 2nd Amendment thing, but this kind of rhetoric is woefully misinformed. Or a troll trying to rile me up. I have a hard time believing anyone actually can come to that logical conclusion that gang violence = banning guns.

Simple XI: rastjr: Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

Of course that's not what I'm saying. My point was, that I think I understand the intended purpose of the 2nd Amendment better than I ever had prior to the situation in Iran.

Unfortunately, I think we've allowed politicians and certain lobbying organizations to bastardize the true intent of the Amendment. I generally agree with your statement re guns for hunting. And if Iranians had been afforded a constitutional right to keep even just one deer rifle or one shotgun (i.e., hunting arms), I suspect that the news would be a lot different today.

Maybe so. I think probably not though. Rifles against weapons of the state is not a fair fight. The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

Simple XI: Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me.

I hear ya, but if I were to 'gift' the Iranians with one of the Articles, it would be the First.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

rastjr: gulogulo: rastjr: So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

And you are assuming all 20,000 that die from gunshot wounds are "innocent." Granted, some may be, but I'd be willing to be many are involved in criminal activities when shot.

And to your question, yes, self-defense it is entirely worth it.

There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

So, by eliminating our right own firearms, you would add the deaths of those people who legally used their weapons in self-defense to those of the urban youth who were killed with illegally obtained guns, which they would have anyway, regardless of my rights?

You're a dumbass.

KellyX: rastjr: There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

1. Criminals would get access to guns regardless
2. If they couldn't use guns, they'd use knives or other weapons
3. Crime among "urban youths" is a result of the environment they're raised in, probably a direct result of the "war on drugs"

They wouldn't get access if it was illegal. Any weapons other than guns would be better. I agree drugs should be legal.

Simple XI: Of course that's not what I'm saying. My point was, that I think I understand the intended purpose of the 2nd Amendment better than I ever had prior to the situation in Iran.

Unfortunately, I think we've allowed politicians and certain lobbying organizations to bastardize the true intent of the Amendment. I generally agree with your statement re guns for hunting. And if Iranians had been afforded a constitutional right to keep even just one deer rifle or one shotgun (i.e., hunting arms), I suspect that the news would be a lot different today.

I live in a state that allows concealed carry, and personally never imagined I'd ever want a small hand gun on me, ever. That is, until I found myself in personal danger in a very remote place, and got out of it barely. As a woman, I wouldn't have had the stature to take the guy down, even with a knife. I should have a right to carry and defend myself against people like that.

Of course I'm a hunter and have a lovely shotgun, too, but that's not something you can get your hands on easily when in danger.

rastjr: They wouldn't get access if it was illegal.

Ok, it's a troll, folks. No one actually believes this.

Okay, gun nuts are on the loose.

/Thread over.

kiam: that_other_internet: iceberg theory: "There was no independent confirmation of the report."

so in basically this is a glorified twitter message, not a news article. yay for journalistic integrity!

Kinda par for the course in these threads.

I'm sick of you people constantly biatching about this. If you dont like it, either stay out of the thread, or go find a way to get some information and report on it according to your integrity standards. If you haven't noticed, there is a severe shortage of reporting from this area as most communications have been shut off. Our main stream media isnt even reporting on it any longer. So stop your farking biatching and either go away, or do something about it.


We are simply discussing all that is available to us from this region. Would you prefer that we follow the trend of the media and just ignore the fact that anything is happening simply because we dont have live television feeds and loads of reporters on the ground?

/You dont see it on TV so its not true, and unsubstantiated right?
//fark off already.

No I don't see its confirmed so its basically a junior high rumor. Why don't you stop biatching about what other people think?
that quote came from the article. the article is from a newspaper. i do not hold twitter to the same standards as a newspaper. this article is a complete joke, a major part of journalism is verifying sources. if you cant verify something dont print it. you dont just print whatever you feel like and then say your report cant be confirmed. thats pure grade a rumor mill crap.

did they actually hang people? i dont know. and seeing that this is just an unconfirmed rumor in an israeli newspaper i think ill remain skeptical.

there are unconfirmed reports that i sleep on a mattress made of gold and am serenaded an oiled up bikini clad megan fox everynight.

does it really happen? well its unconfirmed.

rastjr: wolvernova: rastjr: Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

I am no fan of guns, but that's about the stupidest anti-gun argument I've ever heard.

Instead of saying it is stupid why don't you offer a response. Are you afraid that I am right?

I didn't say you were stupid, just that your argument is. It's stupid first of all because you throw up the first statistic, then later conjunct it with "innocent lives". Learn how to use stats to SUPPORT your argument, not make it look weak.

Second, you sure don't care much about the intentions of our founding fathers and the right to be free if you hold the right to kill innocent animals above that of self-defense.

Again, I'm pretty anti-gun myself, but you're either a NRA plant or a confused hippie.

gulogulo: rastjr: They wouldn't get access if it was illegal.

Ok, it's a troll, folks. No one actually believes this.

I do. Sure I may have overstated it a little but guns would be much easier to ban then say drugs.

Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

When I get into "The Gun Argument" with people from other countries I remind them that our right to carry guns is not there so I can protet myself from other citizens but so that the citizens can protect themselves from the government. The guys who wrote the 2nd ammendment had just violently overthrown their govermnet and were starting the great American experiment. They had no idea if this new country would work out so the second ammendment was the for all intents and proposes the out clause, in case we needed to do it again.

Then they ussually get it.

/Doesn't own a gun
//Loves the 2nd Ammendment

wolvernova: innocent animals

You don't know what they've done.

At least they're guilty of tasting delicious.

rastjr: Maybe so. I think probably not though. Rifles against weapons of the state is not a fair fight. The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

Okay, I take back what I said. You ARE a farking idiot. Jesus Christ, get the fark out of here.

1) it didn't "fail", what failed was the govt's attempt to hijack the elections and make the people swallow it, which they did NOT

2) they do NOT hate Israel and the US, and definitely don't dislike them more than Ahmadinejad. You do not know jack shiat about Iranians, so stop trying to project your made-up personification of them.

Fireproof: TappingTheVein: The iranian police chief now claims that Neda Sultan's death was staged.

The only surprising thing about this for me is that they didn't blame the jews for this yet.

Thus far I have heard them say:

- It was staged.

- It was an accident by either the police or Basij (surprisingly half-honest for this regime)

- She was killed by a CIA sniper, conveniently out of site and not captured or seen by anyone's camera, I suppose.

- And yes, that it was Israel's doing somehow.

/I guess they haven't learned to go with one story and stick to it as far as this incident is concerned

You forgot to add to the "it was staged" by a BBC reporter for a documentary. I loved that one.

wolvernova: rastjr: wolvernova: rastjr: Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

I am no fan of guns, but that's about the stupidest anti-gun argument I've ever heard.

Instead of saying it is stupid why don't you offer a response. Are you afraid that I am right?

I didn't say you were stupid, just that your argument is. It's stupid first of all because you throw up the first statistic, then later conjunct it with "innocent lives". Learn how to use stats to SUPPORT your argument, not make it look weak.

Second, you sure don't care much about the intentions of our founding fathers and the right to be free if you hold the right to kill innocent animals above that of self-defense.

Again, I'm pretty anti-gun myself, but you're either a NRA plant or a confused hippie.

I'm more the hippie and definately not NRA. I hate those mofos and anyone that belongs to it.

Thanks for your reply. I've been seeking out debates instead of personal insults on Fark and it has been difficult because I'm a new guy.

gulogulo: rastjr: They wouldn't get access if it was illegal.

Ok, it's a troll, folks. No one actually believes this.

I don't think so. Just a full retard.

Glad to see there are still people discussing Iran. I've had to move outside FARK for most of my Iran info now. Checking twitter, iran.whyweprotest, etc.

Sea of Green!

BTW anybody have a troll list? (kidding)

rastjr: gulogulo: rastjr: They wouldn't get access if it was illegal.

Ok, it's a troll, folks. No one actually believes this.

I do. Sure I may have overstated it a little but guns would be much easier to ban then say drugs.

LOL. Come down by the border, won't you? I'll give you a little lesson. You must live a very sheltered existence to actually believe that banning guns will significantly reduce the numbers of criminals who have guns.

wolvernova: rastjr: Maybe so. I think probably not though. Rifles against weapons of the state is not a fair fight. The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

Okay, I take back what I said. You ARE a farking idiot. Jesus Christ, get the fark out of here.

1) it didn't "fail", what failed was the govt's attempt to hijack the elections and make the people swallow it, which they did NOT

2) they do NOT hate Israel and the US, and definitely don't dislike them more than Ahmadinejad. You do not know jack shiat about Iranians, so stop trying to project your made-up personification of them.

It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

gulogulo: As I said before, please look into the history of American-Iranian relations before you make overly simplistic, if not ignorant statements. I don't believe Obama is perfect, but his reaction was appropriate, and in truth, the only action he could take.

Quite the contrary. He could have:

1. Called out the election for the scam it was.
2. Spoken out for the side of freedom and democracy, remember "Tear down that wall" and "Ich bin ein Berliner". And those were on foreign soil against a much more formidable oppoenent.

Personally, I would have added #3. bomb the reactors.

Obama is a pussy abroad, and a bully at home. I'm starting to think he really does support the muslims and facists around the world.

rastjr: Simple XI: rastjr: Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

Of course that's not what I'm saying. My point was, that I think I understand the intended purpose of the 2nd Amendment better than I ever had prior to the situation in Iran.

Unfortunately, I think we've allowed politicians and certain lobbying organizations to bastardize the true intent of the Amendment. I generally agree with your statement re guns for hunting. And if Iranians had been afforded a constitutional right to keep even just one deer rifle or one shotgun (i.e., hunting arms), I suspect that the news would be a lot different today.

Maybe so. I think probably not though. Rifles against weapons of the state is not a fair fight. The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

First, I think it's too early to deem the "revolution" a failure. Second, the Basij, who appear to have been the main instrument in quelling the protests, would have been a lot more hestitant to bum rush people's homes and businesses if they thought that a 12 guage blast might greet them as they came through the door. Third, I think once it became a full-fledged civil war, heavier assistance would have been supplied by organizations other than the US. Rifles would have bought a heck of a lot of time. Finally, I think you might be selling the well educated people of Iran very short. They know the regime is full of crap. Unfortunately, they don't control the TV and other mass media. Do you really think the average Teheran citizen buys the story of the CIA asassinating Neda?

Headline: As the Iranian authorities warned the opposition on Tuesday that they would tolerate no further protests over the disputed election, reports indicate that they have secretly started hanging arrested Mousavi supporters

News Source:


Boobieser in thread (and probable submitter): Tatsuma

Consider the source(s).

Then consider the following from ISNA News Agency:

Iran hangs six for murder (new window)

4 hours ago

TEHRAN (AFP) - Six people convicted of murder were hanged in Tehran's Evin prison on Wednesday, ISNA news agency reported.

"Six people sentenced to Qisas (retribution) were hanged this morning," judiciary official Esmatollah Jaberi told the agency.

He did not identify the convicts but said that some of them had murdered their spouses.

The latest hangings bring to at least 133 the number of people executed in Iran so far this year, according to an AFP count based on news reports.

In 2008, Iran executed 246 people.

Human rights group Amnesty International has said that in 2007 Iran applied the death penalty more than any other country apart from China, executing 335 people.

Tehran says the death penalty is a necessary tool for maintaining public security and is only applied after exhaustive judicial proceedings.

Murder, rape, armed robbery, drug trafficking and adultery are punishable by death in Iran.

Maybe things aren't always as SOME would have us believe?

/Propaganda
//Powerful
///It is

Sounds like Iran needed a second amendment.

rastjr: It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

You are ignorant. How many Iranians do you know? Have you ever read anything about Iran? A book maybe? I find it impossible to believe that you'd make that insulting remark about Iranians if you knew ANYTHING about what they were like. I don't care if you're a college grad, so am I. I know a lot of people without degrees that know more about Iran than you'll ever know, and I know a lot of retards that hold college degrees and think it makes them subject matter experts, even on subjects with which they are completely devoid of any knowledge. You fit in the latter category.

cchris_39: Quite the contrary. He could have:

Ok. Let's think this through. An American-backed Iranian government is put into place. How long do you think it'll last, given history in that area?

I think you simply want any reason to hate Obama, even if it means willfully ignoring history.

rastjr: It's not a made up personification.

Oh, and if it is not a made up personification, better tell me where you dug that bullshiat up from. I'm willing to wager you know the least about Iranians of everyone in this thread, so respond knowing that if you try to bullshiat, you'll get pwned.

Farker T:

ZOMG Tatsuma is spreading the lies of the JOOOZ.

STFU. I'm so tired of hearing you nutbags blame anyone who's proud to be Jewish as a secret Mosad agent trying to disrupt the white man's shaite, in this instance, by first disrupting the brown (olive?) man's shaite first.

...oh and who thread-jacked this into a debate over the second amendment?

Objection! Relevance.

Simple XI: rastjr: Simple XI: rastjr: Simple XI: HotWingConspiracy: Ugh. What's with the new 2nd Amendment retard spin on Iran?

When have these protesters indicated they want a civil war?

I personally can't chalk it all up to retard spin. Never before has the importance of the true intentions of the 2nd Amendment been so apparent to me. I'm not talking deer hunting with an AK-47 or home defense with a Waco-sized munitions cache. I'm talking about the right of the average citizen to be able to protect herself from tyranny. I'm embarrased that it has taken me 40 years to really understand the underlying purpose of such a controversial element of our Consitution (BoR's). But maybe that lends even more support to the legitimacy of Twitter's role. In 40 years, I've never before had the opportunity to lurk in an attempted revolution. Reading all of that helplessness in real time sure made me re-evaluate my personal rights and freedoms.

So, you are saying that 20,000 Americans dying from guns every year for decades is worth it just in case we may need to overthrow our government some time in the future?

I just don't think it makes sense to allow people to have guns except to hunt.

It's just not worth the cost in innocent human life.

Of course that's not what I'm saying. My point was, that I think I understand the intended purpose of the 2nd Amendment better than I ever had prior to the situation in Iran.

Unfortunately, I think we've allowed politicians and certain lobbying organizations to bastardize the true intent of the Amendment. I generally agree with your statement re guns for hunting. And if Iranians had been afforded a constitutional right to keep even just one deer rifle or one shotgun (i.e., hunting arms), I suspect that the news would be a lot different today.

Maybe so. I think probably not though. Rifles against weapons of the state is not a fair fight. The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

First, I think it's too early to deem the "revolution" a failure. Second, the Basij, who appear to have been the main instrument in quelling the protests, would have been a lot more hestitant to bum rush people's homes and businesses if they thought that a 12 guage blast might greet them as they came through the door. Third, I think once it became a full-fledged civil war, heavier assistance would have been supplied by organizations other than the US. Rifles would have bought a heck of a lot of time. Finally, I think you might be selling the well educated people of Iran very short. They know the regime is full of crap. Unfortunately, they don't control the TV and other mass media. Do you really think the average Teheran citizen buys the story of the CIA asassinating Neda?

Oh it's over. I'm sure of that. The conservative controlled media aren't covering anymore. Put a fork in it. take it to the bank. I'm good at analysing these things.

kiam: I'm sick of you people constantly biatching about this.

Then stop doing this, it's uninformative and retarded.

You shouldn't let your panties get wet until this becomes a true civil rights movement (i.e.: they dump Mousavi and fight for their own cause). A little look at Mousavi ('81-'89, Prime Minister of Iran) should tell you a "Mousavi" movement isn't a whole lot to cheer about. The kind of person who knows Mousavi's ties AND supports him, isn't exactly a different animal than an Ahmedinejad supporter.

Sure, the enemy of your enemy is..well, who gives a shiat.

rastjr: wolvernova: rastjr: Maybe so. I think probably not though. Rifles against weapons of the state is not a fair fight. The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

Okay, I take back what I said. You ARE a farking idiot. Jesus Christ, get the fark out of here.

1) it didn't "fail", what failed was the govt's attempt to hijack the elections and make the people swallow it, which they did NOT

2) they do NOT hate Israel and the US, and definitely don't dislike them more than Ahmadinejad. You do not know jack shiat about Iranians, so stop trying to project your made-up personification of them.

It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

I would recommend spending some time in a remote place. Really remote. Let me tell you it isn't the mountain lions that are the scariest thing breathing out there. I get the sense your position is coming from one who has lived a rather "safe" life. It's easy, very easy, to condemn others for defending themselves through means you don't personally need when you are surrounded in security.

And, not to mention that the original intention of 2nd Amendment is meant to protect ourselves from our government. I won't sacrifice that because some abuse it.

atlanta_ufo: gulogulo: I've been reading these threads since this start, and the boasting snarks saying "Ha, see I told you Twitter wouldn't topple the revolution," are really missing out on what Twitter was actually doing, in the historic context of revolutions and the ever expanding global awareness facilitated by the internet. Without Twitter, the only information coming out of Iran would be what the Iranian government would be releasing. Yes, of course there was a lot of misinformation, but there were also many up to the hour updates that appear to have been accurate representations of what was happening in a country otherwise closed off to the world. Did I or anyone else ever expect Twitter alone to topple a regime? No. No one did, but it was instrumental in keeping the world informed which is an important aspect of any oppressed group; having their voices heard by others other than their oppressors. It was the kind of dissemination that has never been seen before in the context of international affairs, and that's pretty important; a modern day grass roots. 10 years ago this wouldn't have likely been possible.

And, if as you say, it was completely inconsequential, why is it then that Iran is forming an "online espionage" task force?


Great post. Twitter got the word out, but the outside world appeared helpless to do anything.

Ask Anonymous and Austin Heap if the outside world was helpless. Twitter is not the only reason the are forming an "online espionage" unit. They were directly hacked, DDos'd, proxies are continuing to be set up, Torrents continuously fed, etc. No longer can they keep info from getting out.

rastjr: I'm good at analysing these things.

How much do you make a year as a political analyst?

This isn't over, by a long shot. The last time Iran had a revolution it took 15 months.

The only quick revolutions are the bloody ones, and most of those turn out BADLY, frequently WORSE than the government they replaced.

The Iranians are in this for the long haul, and want actual change, which takes a peaceful approach and TIME.

And martyrs.

wolvernova: rastjr: It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

You are ignorant. How many Iranians do you know? Have you ever read anything about Iran? A book maybe? I find it impossible to believe that you'd make that insulting remark about Iranians if you knew ANYTHING about what they were like. I don't care if you're a college grad, so am I. I know a lot of people without degrees that know more about Iran than you'll ever know, and I know a lot of retards that hold college degrees and think it makes them subject matter experts, even on subjects with which they are completely devoid of any knowledge. You fit in the latter category.

Don't get mad. Yes, I know about Iran. I read. I even know a real Iranian. I'm not saying they are bad people.

rastjr: It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

So because you graduated college & listened to a few professors, you are now an expert on the subject? The majority of Iranians don't hate the US. 70% of the population is under 30 and have very amiable feelings towards Americans. Just like we have 22% right-wing nutjobs here, they have approx. that many over there. They are a minority, but unfortunately have the power right now.

After the election, though, it would seem that last statement is about to change.

rastjr: The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

So US and Israel can control Iran by just telling it we want them to do the opposite of what we actually want them to do?

Congrats, I can't tell if you are a troll or one of the dumbest people on Fark.

rastjr: I'm good at analysing these things.

I'll sleep better at night now, knowing this.

gulogulo: rastjr: wolvernova: rastjr: Maybe so. I think probably not though. Rifles against weapons of the state is not a fair fight. The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

Okay, I take back what I said. You ARE a farking idiot. Jesus Christ, get the fark out of here.

1) it didn't "fail", what failed was the govt's attempt to hijack the elections and make the people swallow it, which they did NOT

2) they do NOT hate Israel and the US, and definitely don't dislike them more than Ahmadinejad. You do not know jack shiat about Iranians, so stop trying to project your made-up personification of them.

It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

I would recommend spending some time in a remote place. Really remote. Let me tell you it isn't the mountain lions that are the scariest thing breathing out there. I get the sense your position is coming from one who has lived a rather "safe" life. It's easy, very easy, to condemn others for defending themselves through means you don't personally need when you are surrounded in security.

StochasticLife: Farker T:

ZOMG Tatsuma is spreading the lies of the JOOOZ.

STFU. I'm so tired of hearing you nutbags blame anyone who's proud to be Jewish as a secret Mosad agent trying to disrupt the white man's shaite, in this instance, by first disrupting the brown (olive?) man's shaite first.

You're so tired that you're blind?

Didn't read the article that said that those hung were convicted murderers?

Tatsumaco would never bend the truth to suit their agenda, would they?

rastjr: Oh it's over. I'm sure of that. The conservative controlled media aren't covering anymore. Put a fork in it. take it to the bank. I'm good at analysing these things.

Huh--that's a term I have honestly never heard before. I thought the MSM was liberal.

Anyway, if you think that a non-military overthrow of a government is going to take 2 weeks, you're more ignorant that we thought. The revolution in 1979 took over a year. This one will take just as long, if not longer, to play out.

When the majority of the population realizes that their gov't tried to dupe them, they're not about to sit back and take it.

rastjr: wolvernova: rastjr: It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

You are ignorant. How many Iranians do you know? Have you ever read anything about Iran? A book maybe? I find it impossible to believe that you'd make that insulting remark about Iranians if you knew ANYTHING about what they were like. I don't care if you're a college grad, so am I. I know a lot of people without degrees that know more about Iran than you'll ever know, and I know a lot of retards that hold college degrees and think it makes them subject matter experts, even on subjects with which they are completely devoid of any knowledge. You fit in the latter category.

Don't get mad. Yes, I know about Iran. I read. I even know a real Iranian. I'm not saying they are bad people.

The only thing you've said so far about them is that they hate the U.S. and Israel. While anecdotal evidence could support or reject any "opinion" on what a populace hates, if you've seen a single documentary or report from Iran, you'd know that asinine statement is certainly not true, particularly of the US.

So tell me something about Iranians. Tell me something you know. I'm guessing this will go unanswered, but I figure I'll give it a shot anyway.

gulogulo: rastjr: wolvernova: rastjr: Maybe so. I think probably not though. Rifles against weapons of the state is not a fair fight. The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

Okay, I take back what I said. You ARE a farking idiot. Jesus Christ, get the fark out of here.

1) it didn't "fail", what failed was the govt's attempt to hijack the elections and make the people swallow it, which they did NOT

2) they do NOT hate Israel and the US, and definitely don't dislike them more than Ahmadinejad. You do not know jack shiat about Iranians, so stop trying to project your made-up personification of them.

It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

I would recommend spending some time in a remote place. Really remote. Let me tell you it isn't the mountain lions that are the scariest thing breathing out there. I get the sense your position is coming from one who has lived a rather "safe" life. It's easy, very easy, to condemn others for defending themselves through means you don't personally need when you are surrounded in security.

And, not to mention that the original intention of 2nd Amendment is meant to protect ourselves from our government. I won't sacrifice that because some abuse it.

What are you going on about? What doees it matter where I come from. I care about people dying because of guns. You go on about mountain lions.

liam76: So US and Israel can control Iran by just telling it we want them to do the opposite of what we actually want them to do?

I want the Iranian government to STOP showering me with money and hot hot Persian women. I repeat, STOP. This is offical US policy.

brigid_fitch: rastjr: It's not a made up personification. I'm a college graduate not some yahoo off the street. Some of my professors were well read and travelled men and women. So I am not ignorant on this subject.

So because you graduated college & listened to a few professors, you are now an expert on the subject? The majority of Iranians don't hate the US. 70% of the population is under 30 and have very amiable feelings towards Americans. Just like we have 22% right-wing nutjobs here, they have approx. that many over there. They are a minority, but unfortunately have the power right now.

After the election, though, it would seem that last statement is about to change.

I'm more of an expert than most. And my estimation is that the revolution is done. Will you apologise to me when that comes true?

rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

1. Criminals would get access to guns regardless
2. If they couldn't use guns, they'd use knives or other weapons
3. Crime among "urban youths" is a result of the environment they're raised in, probably a direct result of the "war on drugs"

They wouldn't get access if it was illegal. Any weapons other than guns would be better. I agree drugs should be legal.

Really curious why you think criminals with intent to do illegal stuff, would magically not cross the line of buying guns illegally?

that_other_internet: kiam: I'm sick of you people constantly biatching about this.

Then stop doing this, it's uninformative and retarded.

You shouldn't let your panties get wet until this becomes a true civil rights movement (i.e.: they dump Mousavi and fight for their own cause). A little look at Mousavi ('81-'89, Prime Minister of Iran) should tell you a "Mousavi" movement isn't a whole lot to cheer about. The kind of person who knows Mousavi's ties AND supports him, isn't exactly a different animal than an Ahmedinejad supporter.

Sure, the enemy of your enemy is..well, who gives a shiat.

I'd agree. I know Mousavi isn't the knight in badass armor. My only arguments are in regards to the method in which we accept and report on the happenings in the area. This situation has resulted in very VERY little confirmed reporting on the area since the gubbment is regulating everything. I dont care what the situation is, but if the situation of the people cannot be properly reported on, we MUST rely on whatever means we have from gathering information from the area. Sure the israeli newspaper is probably far from un-biased on the area, but they are close to it, and probably get more information than the rest of us. Their reports should not be cast aside simply because of who they are. Its all we've got right now, aside form twitter...

With the use of logic we can pretty well determine when reports are trying to cast a biased opinion or not. Knowing what we know of Iran, its rulers and its people its not hard to deduce what the truth is more than likely to be.

Simple XI: rastjr: I'm good at analysing these things.

I'll sleep better at night now, knowing this.

Good one. I chuckled. Really.

Mosad agent trying to disrupt the white man's shaite, in this instance, by first disrupting the brown (olive?) man's shaite first.

technically, Iranians are "white".

\But agree with everything else.

orclover: This is going about how I expected, just taking longer. Those kids have a limmited window here to start suicide bombings and assasinations or they might as well start running for the exits out of the country now.

Or do some of you still think flowers and puppydogs are still the way to overthrow a fanatical fundementalist dictatorship?

Worked for Ghandi against the Raj...why not Iranians against the Supreme Leader?

rastjr: I'm more of an expert than most

سر آلت تناسلی مرد گردنفراز

liam76: rastjr: The Iranian revolution failed because the Iranian people saw that Israel and the U.S. wanted it to succeed. They hate Israel and the U.S. more than the crazy Aminadejanehd.

So US and Israel can control Iran by just telling it we want them to do the opposite of what we actually want them to do?

Congrats, I can't tell if you are a troll or one of the dumbest people on Fark.

I'm not a troll.

Your question has more truth than you think.

brigid_fitch: rastjr: Oh it's over. I'm sure of that. The conservative controlled media aren't covering anymore. Put a fork in it. take it to the bank. I'm good at analysing these things.

Huh--that's a term I have honestly never heard before. I thought the MSM was liberal.

Anyway, if you think that a non-military overthrow of a government is going to take 2 weeks, you're more ignorant that we thought. The revolution in 1979 took over a year. This one will take just as long, if not longer, to play out.

When the majority of the population realizes that their gov't tried to dupe them, they're not about to sit back and take it.

Nah. They are going to get bored soon and the moment they see something new and exciting the whole thing will be over. Maybe they've been too busy to hear about Billy Mays? Just wait.

:/

rastjr: What are you going on about? What doees it matter where I come from. I care about people dying because of guns. You go on about mountain lions.

Do you really need it spelled out for you? Come on. You have to be a troll. No one could be THIS obtuse.

wolvernova: gulogulo: rastjr: They wouldn't get access if it was illegal.

Ok, it's a troll, folks. No one actually believes this.

I don't think so. Just a full retard.

Okay, I'm leaning towards troll now. Nobody can be this stupid. Simply not possible.

kiam: I know Mousavi isn't the knight in badass armor.

So this isn't what Moussavi looks like? Goddamn it!

Alright - so at the risk of sounding completely ignorant - does anyone have a list of things that we (on the other side of the farking world) can do to help? Besides:

hosting proxies
generally staying informed and passing it on


Is there ANY aid going in? Any refugees coming out who need help? What can I do?

Mztlplx: Worked for Ghandi against the Raj...why not Iranians against the Supreme Leader?

Because the Brittish were nothing like the modern day Iranian Government, they were also occupiers. The Mullahs have a home team advantage.

brigid_fitch: rastjr: Oh it's over. I'm sure of that. The conservative controlled media aren't covering anymore. Put a fork in it. take it to the bank. I'm good at analysing these things.

Huh--that's a term I have honestly never heard before. I thought the MSM was liberal.

Anyway, if you think that a non-military overthrow of a government is going to take 2 weeks, you're more ignorant that we thought. The revolution in 1979 took over a year. This one will take just as long, if not longer, to play out.

When the majority of the population realizes that their gov't tried to dupe them, they're not about to sit back and take it.

Liberal in this country is conservative in the rest of the world. SO yes, conservative controlled media.

Bartleby the Scrivener: technically, Iranians are "white".

Who knew?

I guess my Jewish decoder ring is broken. I wondered why they wanted to blow up a Camero...

rastjr: I'm more of an expert than most. And my estimation is that the revolution is done. Will you apologise to me when that comes true?

If it's done, then I am wrong. Let me check the newsfeed:

10:34 AM ET -- Mousavi's new statement. Translated by the excellent National Iranian American Council:

Mir Hussein Mousavi issued a statement today in response to Guardian Council certifying the election results. Mousavi said the majority of the people including him do not recognize the legitimacy of the current government. He expressed his fears about a grave danger facing the country because people no longer trust the government. According to Mousavi, it is not too late to regain people's trust and reinstate the rule of the law. Denying the fact that people have lost their trust in the government is not beneficial, he said. He requested an end to the militarization of the society, revising the election laws, honoring the article 27 of the constitution (freedom of assembly), freedom of media, reactivating news websites, and a ban of illegal government intervention in restricting communication and monitoring people's activities among other things.

Nope, still going on. You're wrong.

KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

1. Criminals would get access to guns regardless
2. If they couldn't use guns, they'd use knives or other weapons
3. Crime among "urban youths" is a result of the environment they're raised in, probably a direct result of the "war on drugs"

They wouldn't get access if it was illegal. Any weapons other than guns would be better. I agree drugs should be legal.

Really curious why you think criminals with intent to do illegal stuff, would magically not cross the line of buying guns illegally?

Because guns would be much more difficult to smuggle and sell.

Witchydiva: Is there ANY aid going in? Any refugees coming out who need help? What can I do?

There really isn't anything going out or coming in, still.

So, no, we have to twiddle our thumbs for now.

brigid_fitch: rastjr: I'm more of an expert than most. And my estimation is that the revolution is done. Will you apologise to me when that comes true?

If it's done, then I am wrong. Let me check the newsfeed:

10:34 AM ET -- Mousavi's new statement. Translated by the excellent National Iranian American Council:

Mir Hussein Mousavi issued a statement today in response to Guardian Council certifying the election results. Mousavi said the majority of the people including him do not recognize the legitimacy of the current government. He expressed his fears about a grave danger facing the country because people no longer trust the government. According to Mousavi, it is not too late to regain people's trust and reinstate the rule of the law. Denying the fact that people have lost their trust in the government is not beneficial, he said. He requested an end to the militarization of the society, revising the election laws, honoring the article 27 of the constitution (freedom of assembly), freedom of media, reactivating news websites, and a ban of illegal government intervention in restricting communication and monitoring people's activities among other things.

Nope, still going on. You're wrong.

Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

1. Criminals would get access to guns regardless
2. If they couldn't use guns, they'd use knives or other weapons
3. Crime among "urban youths" is a result of the environment they're raised in, probably a direct result of the "war on drugs"

They wouldn't get access if it was illegal. Any weapons other than guns would be better. I agree drugs should be legal.

Really curious why you think criminals with intent to do illegal stuff, would magically not cross the line of buying guns illegally?

Because guns would be much more difficult to smuggle and sell.

Like in Mexico where private ownership of guns is illegal?

NobleHam: This isn't over yet, remember the mourning cycle... 3 days, 7 days, 40 days. On July 30th (40 days from Neda's death), I would expect some big protests. The Revolution which took down the Shah took a year. Westerners are just too impatient.

This.

And, yes, they mass ran child soldiers through minefields twenty years ago, etc... I don't see this mindset as ever being broken. Indeed, if they do go into violent mode, the revolution will not stop.

orclover: Mztlplx: Worked for Ghandi against the Raj...why not Iranians against the Supreme Leader?

Because the Brittish were nothing like the modern day Iranian Government, they were also occupiers. The Mullahs have a home team advantage.

In this case, the mullahs are divided. The "home team advantage" is actually an away game on your own field. I doubt that they could silence an Ayatollah like Montazeri...

StochasticLife: There really isn't anything going out or coming in, still.

So, no, we have to twiddle our thumbs for now.

It was hard to do at first, and now it is maddening.

/signed up to volunteer with the local chapter of Habitat for Humanity, and submitted my application to volunteer for the Red Cross.

rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

"Its too bad people in the US don't protest like this against the oppression here. "

This is when I knew you were an idiot.

Witchydiva: Alright - so at the risk of sounding completely ignorant - does anyone have a list of things that we (on the other side of the farking world) can do to help? Besides:

hosting proxies
generally staying informed and passing it on


Is there ANY aid going in? Any refugees coming out who need help? What can I do?

Why We Protest - Iran (new window)

This thread in particular gives some good advice on what you can do online:
Link (new window)

gerdab.ir is a Iranian gov't site identifying protesters. I grabbed a CPU from a friend to help out.

Witchydiva: /signed up to volunteer with the local chapter of Habitat for Humanity, and submitted my application to volunteer for the Red Cross.

Much awesomeness. Charity (and respect for others) begins at home.

Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

1. Criminals would get access to guns regardless
2. If they couldn't use guns, they'd use knives or other weapons
3. Crime among "urban youths" is a result of the environment they're raised in, probably a direct result of the "war on drugs"

They wouldn't get access if it was illegal. Any weapons other than guns would be better. I agree drugs should be legal.

Really curious why you think criminals with intent to do illegal stuff, would magically not cross the line of buying guns illegally?

Because guns would be much more difficult to smuggle and sell.

Like in Mexico where private ownership of guns is illegal?

Don't you think we have a lttle bit more technology and expertise than Mexicans?

Witchydiva: It was hard to do at first, and now it is maddening.

/signed up to volunteer with the local chapter of Habitat for Humanity, and submitted my application to volunteer for the Red Cross.

You could try donating to the Iranian chapter of the Red Crescent, but I'm pretty sure the government considers them a 'foreign influence' and tries to keep them the hell away from any internal affairs they could actually assist with.

So, I doubt it would do much good, but if you want to, start Here (pops)

CanisNoir: atlanta_ufo: Great post. Twitter got the word out, but the outside world appeared helpless to do anything.

As is generally the case. The post you quoted was right, Twitter got the information out, and that information has had a ripple effect all across the Middle East. Democratic activists all over have seen the Iranians stand up for their rights and are now wondering "Why not us?"

Still lots of things to happen so just be patient :)

This is another point to consider: what will happen in other counties? Egypt, Jordan... Egypt especially. If another touchstone event in another country fires up, might have a widespread Islamic Civil War between moderates and conservatives; that pressure has been building for a while.

Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

When was I supposed to create it? In the future?

Your question was dumb.

rastjr: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

When was I supposed to create it? In the future?

Your question was dumb.

Let's just say it stinks of ALT.

wolvernova: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

i'm not a troll. Why do the new guys get treated like this? It's not fair.

Myrdinn: This is another point to consider: what will happen in other counties? Egypt, Jordan... Egypt especially. If another touchstone event in another country fires up, might have a widespread Islamic Civil War between moderates and conservatives; that pressure has been building for a while.

There is no other government on Earth like Irans. The possibility is there, but I wouldn't say its 'high'.

What America should do is instead of this anti 'assault weapons' fetish is to simply ban anything shorter than ~1.5 foot. I really don't see handguns being particularly useful in a revolution (the point of the 2nd) anyway and they seem responsible for 90%+ of the current deaths.

Mztlplx: In this case, the mullahs are divided. The "home team advantage" is actually an away game on your own field. I doubt that they could silence an Ayatollah like Montazeri...

Yes but in this stalemate the victory will go to whoever can drink the most blood. At the current rate the only chance the students and oposition mullahs have is if the millitary steps in for their team, which isnt likely. Mantazeri will eventually get tired of seeing students slaughtered by the hundreds or he will "have an accident". Khamenei will never get fed up with killing students, Allah wants him to do it so he will do it until he runs out of students, without a strong resistance movement that can effectively combat a fanatical militant basij force the students will eventually run out of steam or people.

The Brittish got tired of choking on indian blood and went home, Khamenei will keep asking for seconds until the students run dry.

rastjr: wolvernova: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

i'm not a troll. Why do the new guys get treated like this? It's not fair.

We welcome new discussion here. It's a matter of how it is presented. "Fark you I'm right" doesn't work. I'd suggest taking the aggression down a couple of notches, and listening to those who are responding to you with an open mind. The answers aren't black and white. Help us find the right shade of gray.

rastjr: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

When was I supposed to create it? In the future?

Your question was dumb.

No need to get defensive right off the bat, or insulting - I was asking what motivated you to create an account on that particular day. What event triggered you to join our online community as a member, rather than a lurker without a login?

Calm down, you fabulous college graduate.

Oh - and as a response to your comment about having brilliant professors - let me just say that simply because my opera teacher sang at La Scala, there is no guarantee that I am (or ever will be) able to perform at that level myself.

rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

1. Criminals would get access to guns regardless
2. If they couldn't use guns, they'd use knives or other weapons
3. Crime among "urban youths" is a result of the environment they're raised in, probably a direct result of the "war on drugs"

They wouldn't get access if it was illegal. Any weapons other than guns would be better. I agree drugs should be legal.

Really curious why you think criminals with intent to do illegal stuff, would magically not cross the line of buying guns illegally?

Because guns would be much more difficult to smuggle and sell.

Like in Mexico where private ownership of guns is illegal?

Don't you think we have a lttle bit more technology and expertise than Mexicans?

Your entire argument is pointless cause we have the legal right to own guns, the government could never get rid of them all, and smuggling guns isn't that hard anyhow.

More to the point, criminals would bypass laws now to obtain guns, banning them outright wouldn't stop them.

Mztlplx: rastjr: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

When was I supposed to create it? In the future?

Your question was dumb.

Let's just say it stinks of ALT.

I don't know what ALT means. So tell me, do you like to debate the issues or not?

orclover: Mztlplx: In this case, the mullahs are divided. The "home team advantage" is actually an away game on your own field. I doubt that they could silence an Ayatollah like Montazeri...

Yes but in this stalemate the victory will go to whoever can drink the most blood. At the current rate the only chance the students and oposition mullahs have is if the millitary steps in for their team, which isnt likely. Mantazeri will eventually get tired of seeing students slaughtered by the hundreds or he will "have an accident". Khamenei will never get fed up with killing students, Allah wants him to do it so he will do it until he runs out of students, without a strong resistance movement that can effectively combat a fanatical militant basij force the students will eventually run out of steam or people.

The Brittish got tired of choking on indian blood and went home, Khamenei will keep asking for seconds until the students run dry.

If this is true, then I am reminded of "Ozymandias". All Khamenei will have left is a large statue of himself, forgotten in the middle of the desert.

Send a letter to the Ambassadors from Russia, China, and the EU... (new window)

I might be completely wrong, but I think getting EU too involved in this wouldn't be any better than US involvement; UK is an EU member, and overall the trans-Atlantic relations are quite close.

China? Why would China help the opposition?

Then there's Russia... As long as Ahmadi is in charge (nominally), Iran's foreign relations are going to be limited. Which benefits Russia more, getting oil from Iran (to be sold?) or letting EU buy it?

Also, in not-really-news: Basij militia calls for Mousavi to be prosecuted over post-election unrest (new window).

DNRTFA
DNRTFC


Unless the streetlamps are 4 feet tall in Iran, that seems like an unwise precedent to set.

Please, Farker T, tell us again how Bernard-Henri Levy isn't French since he's Jewish, and how he is stabbing France in the back.

Mztlplx: rastjr: wolvernova: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

i'm not a troll. Why do the new guys get treated like this? It's not fair.

We welcome new discussion here. It's a matter of how it is presented. "Fark you I'm right" doesn't work. I'd suggest taking the aggression down a couple of notches, and listening to those who are responding to you with an open mind. The answers aren't black and white. Help us find the right shade of gray.

Okay, I'll try. It seems like you are a good bunch of guys and girls.

SupremeLeader: How dare you!
I twittered 'til my fingers bled.
Well, what I thought was blood was actually strawberry jam stains.
But for a moment, I bled green for the Iranian freedom fighters who I wanted to blow up with nukes a couple of weeks ago, but who are now my bestest friends.

/101st Keyboarder signing off.

I got my first real smart-phone
Bought it at the AT&T
Twittered 'til my fingers bled
It was summer of '09

Me and some guys from internets
Had a proxy and we tried real hard
studman quit and barjockey got married
I shoulda known we'd never get far

Oh when I lock back now
That summer seemed to last forever
And if I had the choice
Ya - I'd always wanna be there
Those were the best days of my life

Witchydiva: rastjr: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

When was I supposed to create it? In the future?

Your question was dumb.

No need to get defensive right off the bat, or insulting - I was asking what motivated you to create an account on that particular day. What event triggered you to join our online community as a member, rather than a lurker without a login?

Calm down, you fabulous college graduate.

Oh - and as a response to your comment about having brilliant professors - let me just say that simply because my opera teacher sang at La Scala, there is no guarantee that I am (or ever will be) able to perform at that level myself.


What motivates me is the pursuit of truth. I believe I possess some truth but I am always looking to gain more.

rastjr: Mztlplx: rastjr: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

When was I supposed to create it? In the future?

Your question was dumb.

Let's just say it stinks of ALT.

I don't know what ALT means. So tell me, do you like to debate the issues or not?

ALT = ALTernate login. A common ploy of trolls and threadshiatters.

And yes, I do enjoy debate. But debate is not the Monty Python argument sketch, right?

rastjr: What motivates me is the pursuit of truth. I believe I possess some truth but I am always looking to gain more.

No you aren't, your far to busy asserting the truth of your arguments to even begin to learn.

سر آلت تناسلی مرد گردنفراز

KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: KellyX: rastjr: There might be a small percentage that use guns for self defense but that relativelly small number is not worth the large numbers of urban youth dying in the streets because of guns.

1. Criminals would get access to guns regardless
2. If they couldn't use guns, they'd use knives or other weapons
3. Crime among "urban youths" is a result of the environment they're raised in, probably a direct result of the "war on drugs"

They wouldn't get access if it was illegal. Any weapons other than guns would be better. I agree drugs should be legal.

Really curious why you think criminals with intent to do illegal stuff, would magically not cross the line of buying guns illegally?

Because guns would be much more difficult to smuggle and sell.

Like in Mexico where private ownership of guns is illegal?

Don't you think we have a lttle bit more technology and expertise than Mexicans?

Your entire argument is pointless cause we have the legal right to own guns, the government could never get rid of them all, and smuggling guns isn't that hard anyhow.

More to the point, criminals would bypass laws now to obtain guns, banning them outright wouldn't stop them.

People had the right to own slaves doesn't mean we can't change the constitution.

Mztlplx: rastjr: Mztlplx: rastjr: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

When was I supposed to create it? In the future?

Your question was dumb.

Let's just say it stinks of ALT.

I don't know what ALT means. So tell me, do you like to debate the issues or not?

ALT = ALTernate login. A common ploy of trolls and threadshiatters.

And yes, I do enjoy debate. But debate is not the Monty Python argument sketch, right?

I'm no ALT. Just a guy looking for answers to make myself and the world a better place.

rastjr: No need to get defensive right off the bat, or insulting - I was asking what motivated you to create an account on that particular day. What event triggered you to join our online community as a member, rather than a lurker without a login?

What motivates me is the pursuit of truth. I believe I possess some truth but I am always looking to gain more.

Non answer. To broad and vague.



/hot

She's the most distressful counterie that ever yet was seen,
And they're hanging men and women for the wearing of the green.

/Yes, I know the song is about Ireland, but I felt it was appropriate here too.

StochasticLife: rastjr: What motivates me is the pursuit of truth. I believe I possess some truth but I am always looking to gain more.

No you aren't, your far to busy asserting the truth of your arguments to even begin to learn.

سر آلت تناسلی مرد گردنفراز

I'm not sure why you are saying that. I know how some things should be. I know what is unfair and fair. I've been learning all my life.

rastjr: wolvernova: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

i'm not a troll. Why do the new guys get treated like this? It's not fair.

Because you insist on your baseless presumptions, don't back them up, and refuse to answer any challenging questions. For example, I asked you to tell me something about Iranian people beyond "they hate the US more than Ahmadinejad," and you didn't. I'm giving you the benefit of doubt by assuming you're a troll, and not actually this stupid.

Witchydiva: rastjr: No need to get defensive right off the bat, or insulting - I was asking what motivated you to create an account on that particular day. What event triggered you to join our online community as a member, rather than a lurker without a login?

What motivates me is the pursuit of truth. I believe I possess some truth but I am always looking to gain more.

Non answer. To broad and vague.



/hot

I came across Fark last week and like it. I like to express my opinion on how the world should be. I think I have some answers to peoples' questions.

Alright - enough with the threadjack. and AWing of the "new" guy. Brilliant alt/troll. Lets move on now.



Anyone up for taking photos of their green ribbons and posting them so fellow like-minded people can see the iranians are not alone in this? As much as they can't be alone in an isolated country that is taking steps to further isolate itself from the rest of the world, that is...

wolvernova: rastjr: wolvernova: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

i'm not a troll. Why do the new guys get treated like this? It's not fair.

Because you insist on your baseless presumptions, don't back them up, and refuse to answer any challenging questions. For example, I asked you to tell me something about Iranian people beyond "they hate the US more than Ahmadinejad," and you didn't. I'm giving you the benefit of doubt by assuming you're a troll, and not actually this stupid.

I've told you already that I am not a troll. Okay, I'll answer your question. Iranians are Persians not Arab and because of this they have always felt like and outsider. Thus, they feel threatened by the world around them and fear being destroyed. That is why they are seeking nuclear weapons.

rastjr: Witchydiva: rastjr: No need to get defensive right off the bat, or insulting - I was asking what motivated you to create an account on that particular day. What event triggered you to join our online community as a member, rather than a lurker without a login?

What motivates me is the pursuit of truth. I believe I possess some truth but I am always looking to gain more.

Non answer. To broad and vague.



/hot

I came across Fark last week and like it. I like to express my opinion on how the world should be. I think I have some answers to peoples' questions.

There's an anthem that we sing
"LURK MOAR!"

Don't tell me about the answer, 'cause then another one will come along soon. I don't believe you have the answer, I've got ideas too.
But if you've got enough naivite, and you've got conviction, then the answer is perfect for you

Witchydiva: Anyone up for taking photos of their green ribbons and posting them so fellow like-minded people can see the iranians are not alone in this? As much as they can't be alone in an isolated country that is taking steps to further isolate itself from the rest of the world, that is...

I wear scrubs, so no ribbons for me (at work anyway).

I have taken to wearing green shirts under my scrubs, but all of that is simply self-indulgent tokens of solidarity. Never been a ribbon guy, I want to actually DO something, but now, I can't even do what little I had been doing before.

rastjr: I've told you already that I am not a troll. Okay, I'll answer your question. Iranians are Persians not Arab and because of this they have always felt like and outsider. Thus, they feel threatened by the world around them and fear being destroyed. That is why they are seeking nuclear weapons.

Okay, not bad. Also: over 2/3 of Iran are under the age of 35. They have no real memory of the revolution, don't believe in it, are generally pro-western, and (particularly now) despise their govt. They are educated and progressive, and know a lot more about you than you'll ever know about them. Go back through the fark threads of the past few weeks and you'll gain a wealth of knowledge from the pictures, videos, and articles posted throughout.

This site has long hosted some great photos.(new window)

wyrlss: rastjr: Witchydiva: rastjr: No need to get defensive right off the bat, or insulting - I was asking what motivated you to create an account on that particular day. What event triggered you to join our online community as a member, rather than a lurker without a login?

What motivates me is the pursuit of truth. I believe I possess some truth but I am always looking to gain more.

Non answer. To broad and vague.



/hot

I came across Fark last week and like it. I like to express my opinion on how the world should be. I think I have some answers to peoples' questions.

There's an anthem that we sing
"LURK MOAR!"

Don't tell me about the answer, 'cause then another one will come along soon. I don't believe you have the answer, I've got ideas too.
But if you've got enough naivite, and you've got conviction, then the answer is perfect for you

Sorry I don't want to lurk more. If people don't like what I say it's just because they have been brainwashed by the conservative media.

Thanks for being civil though.

Fireproof: Thus far I have heard them say:

- It was staged.

- It was an accident by either the police or Basij (surprisingly half-honest for this regime)

- She was killed by a CIA sniper, conveniently out of site and not captured or seen by anyone's camera, I suppose.

- And yes, that it was Israel's doing somehow.

/I guess they haven't learned to go with one story and stick to it as far as this incident is concerned

My favorite was the one put forth by one of the Iranian newspapers that it was a foreign press reporter who paid some baddies to do it so he could report it, completely ignoring the fact that the press has been so far behind the curve all along that I couldn't credit them with anything even remotely that forward thinking. I can't seem to follow the money back from a story that nobody ever owned.

I think that they should have gone with the accidental killing, it has at least enough of a grain of a scintilla of truth that it probably would have assuaged some of the populace. As it is, it probably won over more of the youth and most of the cynics.

This thing still has a long way to play out, but I don't see any of the players doing anything to diffuse or otherwise ameliorate the situation. The hardliners are doing their darnedest to fan the flames through flatfooted and braindead action and speech, but then they're backed into a corner and couldn't really have done anything different without weakening their position. The opposition can't/won't back down either. This is going to get far uglier and result in a lot of young people dead, with the result being a weakened, and somewhat marginalized country, or a takeover by the opposition, followed by years of suicide bombings by the hardline factions who are unhappy with the secularist government that comes about.

rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

Farker T: StochasticLife: Farker T:

ZOMG Tatsuma is spreading the lies of the JOOOZ.

STFU. I'm so tired of hearing you nutbags blame anyone who's proud to be Jewish as a secret Mosad agent trying to disrupt the white man's shaite, in this instance, by first disrupting the brown (olive?) man's shaite first.

You're so tired that you're blind?

Didn't read the article that said that those hung were convicted murderers?

Tatsumaco would never bend the truth to suit their agenda, would they?

I was going to express my doubts for a different reason, but that's another good one. Let me lay it out:

-Tatsuma isn't lying, he's just sharing a rumor he heard, that kangaroo court executions have started.

-The JP is around MSNBC's level of propaganda and pro-Israel, so it is wise but not absolutely necessary to seek independent confirmation.

-As Farker T pointed out, there's a very similar story that could have gotten "garbled" and led to an inaccurate rumor of "zomg hangings!"

-And the most important consideration (in my mind) is that Khamenei's regime is one of terrifying the populace into obedience and heavy-handed villainy. Executions for dissidents to "show we mean business" would probably be a little more open and unsubtle. Seeing as how they're into public executions.

Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?



I'm not a trolling alt.

Way to welcome the new guy. Do you throw a flaming bag of shi! on your neighbors porch too?

It's hard to keep my spirits up around here. Everyone is so concerned with labels.

Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

Really? I don't see it. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable member of FARK to me.

Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

BINGO!! Conservative media my ass. Have you ever watched any of the big 4 news broadcasts?

rastjr: Way to welcome the new guy. Do you throw a flaming bag of shi! on your neighbors porch too?

You're the one that brought the bag of shiat with your absolutely false (and still unsourced) caricature of Iranians. You bring the stupid, and you'll get slapped down. There isn't much tolerance for dishonesty here.

rastjr: Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

I'm not a trolling alt.
Way to welcome the new guy. Do you throw a flaming bag of shi! on your neighbors porch too?

It's hard to keep my spirits up around here. Everyone is so concerned with labels.

Actualy the bag of flaming shiat on the neighbors porch is funny as hell when it works as intended. Maybe someone should do it to dinner jackets house.

wolvernova: rastjr: Way to welcome the new guy. Do you throw a flaming bag of shi! on your neighbors porch too?

You're the one that brought the bag of shiat with your absolutely false (and still unsourced) caricature of Iranians. You bring the stupid, and you'll get slapped down. There isn't much tolerance for dishonesty here.

But thankfully he knows if we ban guns, the criminals will just throw their hands up in the air and stop using guns to commit crimes.

StochasticLife: I have taken to wearing green shirts under my scrubs, but all of that is simply self-indulgent tokens of solidarity. Never been a ribbon guy, I want to actually DO something, but now, I can't even do what little I had been doing before.

It is self-indulgent. And only a token act - nothing actually useful. The only use I've found is the single person that asked me what the ribbon on my wrist meant, since they had seen a couple other people sporting the same device.

If anyone knows of any refugees coming out - and it is safe to identify them - please let us know how we can help them, since we can't help anyone inside the country ATM (other than proxies/RTing).

wolvernova: rastjr: Way to welcome the new guy. Do you throw a flaming bag of shi! on your neighbors porch too?

You're the one that brought the bag of shiat with your absolutely false (and still unsourced) caricature of Iranians. You bring the stupid, and you'll get slapped down. There isn't much tolerance for dishonesty here.

Were you the guy that asked for something I know about the Iranian people and I did?

What falsehoods did I bring here? When was I dishonest?

I'm not taking anything personal. I still like everyone here.

wyrlss: Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

Really? I don't see it. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable member of FARK to me.

Thanks for your support.

Joe Blowme: Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

BINGO!! Conservative media my ass. Have you ever watched any of the big 4 news broadcasts?

What year do you live in? There is more to media than 4 news broadcasts.

rastjr: Were you the guy that asked for something I know about the Iranian people and I did?

You said they are Persian, not Arab. Congrats, you finally said something true. Beyond that though, you know nothing about the people. Your Weeners about how they hate the US more than Ahmadinejad was flatly false, and you ought to admit you made that up. Just being a college grad and having professors that traveled the world (congrats, all of us have) doesn't make you any more worldly than a hermit.

rastjr: wyrlss: Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

Really? I don't see it. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable member of FARK to me.

Thanks for your support.

That wasn't actually a compliment. Seriously, if you aren't a troll (and that's a big IF), you have to provide actual data and sources to back your claims. Your answers, thus far, have been sanctimonious and vague proclamations of truth, none of which you have been able or willing to verify as true when asked.

Fark is a great place for conversations, even when they get snarky. Having the conversation is important, but at some point there has to be substance behind it.

/still thinks it matters where you are from before you tell people not in your situation what they can and cannot have to defend themselves.

In an earlier post I mentioned EU-Iran relations. Now here's a proof (new window) that they just love us. Still, they've freed three people (new window) who worked in the British embassy.

Did you guys see this:

Iran blocks opposition party newspaper?

Also - I haven't watched FOX since the Farrah/MJ brouhaha - has Shepard Smith continued his good coverage of the situation in Iran?

wolvernova: rastjr: Were you the guy that asked for something I know about the Iranian people and I did?

You said they are Persian, not Arab. Congrats, you finally said something true. Beyond that though, you know nothing about the people. Your Weeners about how they hate the US more than Ahmadinejad was flatly false, and you ought to admit you made that up. Just being a college grad and having professors that traveled the world (congrats, all of us have) doesn't make you any more worldly than a hermit.

Everything I know about persia, I learned from Ubisoft (new window) and 300.

that_other_internet: iceberg theory: "There was no independent confirmation of the report."

so in basically this is a glorified twitter message, not a news article. yay for journalistic integrity!

Kinda par for the course in these threads.

Yay for state-run media!

/you're an idiot

wolvernova: rastjr: Were you the guy that asked for something I know about the Iranian people and I did?

You said they are Persian, not Arab. Congrats, you finally said something true. Beyond that though, you know nothing about the people. Your Weeners about how they hate the US more than Ahmadinejad was flatly false, and you ought to admit you made that up. Just being a college grad and having professors that traveled the world (congrats, all of us have) doesn't make you any more worldly than a hermit.

So I answered a question but it still isn't good enough for you. Oh well, I'm not going to worry about. I'll find some other people who like to discuss issues.

rastjr: I'm not a trolling alt.

Way to welcome the new guy. Do you throw a flaming bag of shi! on your neighbors porch too?

It's hard to keep my spirits up around here. Everyone is so concerned with labels.

Man up, this is Fark. If you can't take it, go back to lurking.

liam76: So if Bush came out in direct contradiction of the constitution and declared martial law after McCain lost, said he was going to keep the presidency, told the military to enforce his will, and then fired the head Joint Chiefs of Staff when he wouldn't listen to him. Would you call it a coup if the military listened to congress, and the supreme court and kicked the president out?

Yes.

You impeach a president, you don't have the military and supreme court "kick him out."

Fireproof: yogaFLAME: The more you tighten your grip, Khamenei..

The more star systems will slip through your fingers?

That'd be the joke.

gulogulo: rastjr: wyrlss: Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

Really? I don't see it. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable member of FARK to me.

Thanks for your support.

That wasn't actually a compliment. Seriously, if you aren't a troll (and that's a big IF), you have to provide actual data and sources to back your claims. Your answers, thus far, have been sanctimonious and vague proclamations of truth, none of which you have been able or willing to verify as true when asked.

Fark is a great place for conversations, even when they get snarky. Having the conversation is important, but at some point there has to be substance behind it.

/still thinks it matters where you are from before you tell people not in your situation what they can and cannot have to defend themselves.

If it wansn't a compliment than by that logic everyone on Fark is a troll. That can't be true. It seems like most of you are pretty cool guys. guys that I could be friends with.

StochasticLife: rastjr: I'm not a trolling alt.

Way to welcome the new guy. Do you throw a flaming bag of shi! on your neighbors porch too?

It's hard to keep my spirits up around here. Everyone is so concerned with labels.

Man up, this is Fark. If you can't take it, go back to lurking.

I can take it man. I'm tough. My mom always said "when you get knocked down, get up"

Tatsuma: bookman: Thanks, Obama!

While people who want to discuss Honduras can go to the appropriate thread and people who truly blame can go to Free Republic, trolls can go fark themselves.
What's all this talk about Honduras? Sounds interesting, can you fill me in Tatsuma? Please keep it under 500 words and sort it chronologically in point form. M'kay? That'd be great, thanks.

Witchydiva: Did you guys see this:

Iran blocks opposition party newspaper?

Also - I haven't watched FOX since the Farrah/MJ brouhaha - has Shepard Smith continued his good coverage of the situation in Iran?

And now this from IB:

Etemadmeli will be published again from tomorrow after a day of ban. #iranelection
17 minutes ago from web

Oh and:

@oxfordgirl HOW U cn HELP Pls if not in Iran email/phone/write media TV/papers/radio & say U wnt 2 hear more abt #iranelection

rastjr: Joe Blowme: Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

BINGO!! Conservative media my ass. Have you ever watched any of the big 4 news broadcasts?

What year do you live in? There is more to media than 4 news broadcasts.

Not everyone has cable, maybe i should have stated those that are on regular tv availble for free to the masses.

Delores De Syn:
Iran blocks opposition party newspaper

And now this from IB:

Etemadmeli will be published again from tomorrow after a day of ban. #iranelection
17 minutes ago from web

I think I agree with RodneyToady's post from 2009-06-30 11:44:11 PM in this thread.

I love the list of supportive nations. It's like a who's who of human rights violations and oppressive regimes.

I'm surprised people are claiming the revolution is over. History shows us these things take time, especially when driven by the people as opposed to the military. This is far from done, and the regime is scared as shown by the rumors of executions.

/Oh the wearin' of the green.

rastjr: gulogulo: rastjr: wyrlss: Tatsuma: rastjr: brainwashed by the conservative media.

seriously people, do you not realize he's a trolling alt?

Really? I don't see it. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable member of FARK to me.

Thanks for your support.

That wasn't actually a compliment. Seriously, if you aren't a troll (and that's a big IF), you have to provide actual data and sources to back your claims. Your answers, thus far, have been sanctimonious and vague proclamations of truth, none of which you have been able or willing to verify as true when asked.

Fark is a great place for conversations, even when they get snarky. Having the conversation is important, but at some point there has to be substance behind it.

/still thinks it matters where you are from before you tell people not in your situation what they can and cannot have to defend themselves.

If it wansn't a compliment than by that logic everyone on Fark is a troll.

HAHAHAHAHA

Meanwhile back at the ranch, granny's beating off the rustlers. Late as ususal....

Any news about/from PK and CFI?

ConConHead: I love the list of supportive nations. It's like a who's who of human rights violations and oppressive regimes.

I'm surprised people are claiming the revolution is over. History shows us these things take time, especially when driven by the people as opposed to the military. This is far from done, and the regime is scared as shown by the rumors of executions.

/Oh the wearin' of the green.

I'm not thoroughly convinced that all of those nations gave their support. But, I believe a few of them did.

Hey Tats - where the iranian employees of the British Embassy arrested AT the embassy, or...?

Witchydiva:

I think I agree with RodneyToady's post from 2009-06-30 11:44:11 PM in this thread.

*sigh* I'm afraid I have to agree, too.

Take heed folks. rastajr is showing you all how it's done. He got some fairly intelligent folks to bite. Then when he had them in a lather, he purposefully tried to be a tad more obnoxious in what I think was a "here I am, a troll" style. People continued to bite.

Good stuff. One of the better I've seen.

I just wonder how many Fark logins he's gone through to reach this point. There's a familiar ring in the style even if it is now polished.

/clap

Witchydiva: Hey Tats - where the iranian employees of the British Embassy arrested AT the embassy, or...?

If they were, the Britons wouldn't be so "easygoing". I believe they were arrested on their way to/ from there, on Iranian soil. I'm not 100% certain, though.

Oops rastjr I meant.

CountDeMoney: Meanwhile back at the ranch, granny's beating off the rustlers. Late as ususal....

Any news about/from PK and CFI?

CFI seems okay, nothing on PK. NR is also still MIA, I think.

Delores De Syn: Witchydiva: Hey Tats - where the iranian employees of the British Embassy arrested AT the embassy, or...?

If they were, the Britons wouldn't be so "easygoing". I believe they were arrested on their way to/ from there, on Iranian soil. I'm not 100% certain, though.

Thats what I figured, but couldn't find a reference in any stories.

ConConHead: I love the list of supportive nations. It's like a who's who of human rights violations and oppressive regimes.

Yeah, it's pretty much the who's who club of bullshiat countries.

StochasticLife: CountDeMoney: Meanwhile back at the ranch, granny's beating off the rustlers. Late as ususal....

Any news about/from PK and CFI?

CFI seems okay, nothing on PK. NR is also still MIA, I think.

Perhaps I've forgotten, but what about SA?

All I know about Persia I learned from "I Dream of Jeannie"

Interesting... Facebook pages for Mousavi and his wife call for national strike in Iran (new window).

And, LOL

@oxfordgirl Jerusalem Post claiming 6 protesters have been executed. paper not one I would trust always #iranelection @#iran @#iranelections

- The Jerusalem Post reports that at least 6 Mousavi supporters who had been arrested by security forces were hanged, and that others are being tried and risk the same fate. The Revolutionary Guard has announced the creation of a new unit, specialized in fighting organized crimes on the internet, including espionage, social corruption, and anti-Government subversive activities, as reported by the IRNA.


I'm sorry, but you cannot have "elections" if supporters of one side are murdered. Not yours.

My deepest sympathies to the Iranian people. Your protests showed how strong you are and how badly you want a say in governing your country.

May your strength and will provide the way to a truly free Iran. And may those brave men and women who gave their lives to the cause be honored.

Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

What was that really annoying guy in the first Iran threads? LOL something?

malachesque:

No need to be sorry. Honestly I have always cast a wary eye towards the Red Cross and the Dean Healy debacle back a few years ago kinda solidified things for me. I thought maybe there would be a glimmer of hope as I have seen some reform from them of late... But I guess it is business and politics with the Red Cross as usual.

On the whole the RC does more good than harm but they have some serious organizational problems that obviously aren't going to be fixed maybe in my lifetime.

You tried and obviously lots of people appreciated it. It looks like you will keep trying other routes so good on you.

Just checkinging iran.whyweprotest.net and get a server down message..Just me or is the government behind it..

CaesarSneezy: Witchydiva: rastjr:
Your being emotional about. Trust me.

rastjr 2009-06-24 14:14:38 - what made you create that account a week ago today? Just curious.

What was that really annoying guy in the first Iran threads? LOL something?

YELLOL wasn't it?

Tatsuma: Please, Farker T, tell us again how Bernard-Henri Levy isn't French since he's Jewish, and how he is stabbing France in the back.

Reserve your words for your own mouth, Tatsuma.

I posted and article yesterday (pops) that showed very clearly where Bernard-Henri Levy's HEART is, and it isn't in France.

IMO, you both share the SAME agenda, and your "concern" for Iran is limited to how it can serve your mutual Zionist goals.

Have a nice day.