The kid bought the weapon by claiming he was an orphan...

~Let's fighting love!~

at80eighty: Gen. Apathy: Many Americans just have a intense distrust of gov't

why? Does your government routinely break into every home and harass the average citizen at inconvenient times of the day?

Well... yes, actually. You will find news articles about police busting into the wrong house on a search warrant, and more than one case in which people have been gunned down in absolute surprise because they reacted the wrong way to a completely unexpected and undeserved intrusion.

ethics-gradient: dr-shotgun: Same with knives; everyone in Portland has a Benchmade, Gerber of Spiderco clipped in their pants pocket.

That a citizen who avails himself of the most basic of hand tools (a knife) and the most effective means of self defense (a firearm) would be relegated to being a criminal simply for possessing and carrying these implements disgusts me. That UK society has become so disconnected to the realities of life that they criminalize the good folks from such tools is a reflection of how coddled and clueless that tiny island has become. The government cannot protect you. They cannot round up all the scofflaws.

Yup. This.
If I carry my leatherman tool on my belt I'm breaking the law, so I don't. But I enormously resent being subject to laws made by people with no common sense.

Bullshiat.

The applicable part of the law is the Criminal Justice Act (1988), Section 139 being the most important.

"It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches." [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]

So, as long as you have a good reason you can carry any bladed object, for instance you can have a machete if you are doing some garden clearance, and you can carry a folding pocket knife as long as the blade is less than 3 inches, which pretty muich covers Swiss army knives, leathermans etc, though a special exception is made for lock knives, which are considered to be fixed blades for the purposes of the law.

Potentially hell.

/ Les TonTon Macoutes

abdul
All of those places would benefit from proper firearms training. Do you disagree?
Yes. Absolutely. I don't think drug dealers, insurgents and the Taliban need lessons in proper firearms handling. I know it's tough to grasp, but some people really shouldn't be allowed within 50 miles of a gun.

However, your definition of polite may differ from mine. My version is "don't try to rob me while I'm walking down the street, and I won't make it so only your mother and your dentist can identify you afterwards.

So by your definition somebody could take a sh*t in your sandwich, call your mother a tuppeny hooer and tell you your shoes were ghastly, but as long as they didn't try to rob you they'd be 'polite'. Face it. It's a twatty little soundbite that doesn't bear more than 2 seconds rational scrutiny. I just spent a splendid weekend in the Cotswolds, the people were charming, helpful and well mannered. And to think they managed it without thinking I was going to pop a cap in their bottoms....

dittybopper: They used to, back when it was the Crown.

In contrast to what most Europeans generally think, Americans *DO* have long memories.

so you're talking about the past. Splendid


abdul: more than one case in which people have been gunned down in absolute surprise

which qualifies as routinely enough to distrust the govt at large since time immemorial and arm everyone. well I'm sold.

I'll be visiting the US later this year. I find it kind of concerning that so many people over there are scared enough to feel it necessary to be armed at all times. I have no such fears over here. Is it really such a dangerous place?

See, that is the thing - carrying a firearm is not about being scared any more than keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen is about being scared. Carrying a firearm is simply about the recognition that:

- Every society has elements within it who are wiling to initiate the use of violence to take what they want.

- You cannot predict if or when you are going to have to interact with these people (or when you might be around someone who is).

- By the nature of how law enforcement works, the police are not going to be able to protect you when/if that interaction happens. They cannot be on every street corner, and they are minutes away when seconds count.

Every developed nation must ask itself how it contends with these three realities. The reason why I so harp on this idea of allowing citizens (vetted and trained) to carry a concealed weapon is because it strikes me as the only real solution. It speaks to the UK government's attitudes towards it's subjects that they do not trust them enough to allow them to posses any tools for self defense (and I hold American states like California and New York in an even lower regard; they hold this anti-citizen position even though mountains of evidence from the vast majority of American states says that concealed carry is the right thing to do).

I am sure to the average person in the UK, this all sounds positively barbarian. To a society where firearms are vilified and there is talk of "stab proof" knives and carrying a Leatherman would land you in jail for 10 years, the fact that I am typing this with a loaded, chambered Glock in a holster on my hip must sound very odd. The reality is nothing like that - the vast majority of America is relatively free of crime. Part of the reason why though, is because we trust our citizens to have full franchise by possessing the means of self defense.

StaleCoffee: binnster: dr-shotgun:
It must be nice to live in a mythical land of gumdrops and unicorns where nothing terrible ever happens.

Lolwut? In what way was that answer to my question?

Yes, there are manticores, dragons and displacer beasts commonly roaming the streets of Seattle. At night, the townsfolk huddle in terror of the damning wail of the Baen-Sidhe, clutching their enchanted machetes with their ears stoppered in hopes of deflecting the denizens of the night.

Camden? You don't want to see the nameless, eldritch horrors that roam the non-euclidean byways of that cesspool, let me tell you. Only a fool would wander that terrible hellscape unarmed.

Be wary.

D&D nerd alert! Or Lovecraftian alert.

/me too
//played the AD&D for years - 1st edition was the best.
///HP Lovecraft is awesome

Why would they freak out? He has a face only a mother could love

binnster: dr-shotgun: I live in Oregon and have a concealed pistol license. I carry a Glock 26 or 19 on me every time I walk out the front door. I know a few dozen people who do the same thing.


I'll be visiting the US later this year. I find it kind of concerning that so many people over there are scared enough to feel it necessary to be armed at all times. I have no such fears over here. Is it really such a dangerous place?

If I didn't have this gun, the king of England could just walk in here anytime he wants and start shoving you around. Do you want that?

Huh? Do you?

binnster Quote 2009-07-01 07:41:36 AM
dr-shotgun:
It must be nice to live in a mythical land of gumdrops and unicorns where nothing terrible ever happens.

Lolwut? In what way was that answer to my question?


On any given day your unlikely to have need of any self defense weapons. But draw that timeline out to the next 10 years, well the probability goes up.

No we dont live in a Mad Max world, we live in the real world where violent men sometimes rob banks with guns, or 7-11s, and sometimes ppl are just fuggin crazy.

This is why I too carry, not all the time. But if I'm going into the city for something I sure as shiat have my handgun.

at80eighty: dittybopper: They used to, back when it was the Crown.

In contrast to what most Europeans generally think, Americans *DO* have long memories.

so you're talking about the past. Splendid



Has human nature changed any in the last, oh, few thousand years?

Gee, you'd think a nation with as long and storied a history as the UK would have some perspective on these things. Guess that's a bad assumption.

Iron Chef Scottish: abdul
All of those places would benefit from proper firearms training. Do you disagree?
Yes. Absolutely. I don't think drug dealers, insurgents and the Taliban need lessons in proper firearms handling. I know it's tough to grasp, but some people really shouldn't be allowed within 50 miles of a gun.

However, your definition of polite may differ from mine. My version is "don't try to rob me while I'm walking down the street, and I won't make it so only your mother and your dentist can identify you afterwards.

So by your definition somebody could take a sh*t in your sandwich, call your mother a tuppeny hooer and tell you your shoes were ghastly, but as long as they didn't try to rob you they'd be 'polite'. Face it. It's a twatty little soundbite that doesn't bear more than 2 seconds rational scrutiny. I just spent a splendid weekend in the Cotswolds, the people were charming, helpful and well mannered. And to think they managed it without thinking I was going to pop a cap in their bottoms....

You're just adorable! I've been insulted, I've had people shame me in public, and my reaction is nil. Believe it or not, I am a Buddhist, but the beauty of Buddhism is that it allows personal interpretation (unlike some other religions I know), and my own personal interpretation follows the laws of the land I live in.

In that particular land, assaulting somebody because of what they say is a horrible offense. It doesn't matter what they say. One of the most frequent examples of this is when a white person refers to a black person in the most offensive way. It is still a violent crime, but you'll be hard pressed to find a black guy who wouldn't beat the tar out of you for that offense. You know, we do have discretion in this country.

I would actively obstruct the police from stopping somebody who was murdering a man who had raped his daughter.

For Christ's sake, are you even aware of how people behave in Australia? They attack people for driving the wrong kind of car over there.

dittybopper: Gee, you'd think a nation with as long and storied a history as the UK would have some perspective on these things. Guess that's a bad assumption.

that answers nothing whatsoever, but ok then - as long as you're happy!

dr-shotgun:
See, that is the thing - carrying a firearm is not about being scared any more than keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen is about being scared.

Keeping a fire extinguisher next to an oven is fair enough. It's when you feel the need to carry a fire extinguisher with you every time you go out the front door that you look a bit paranoid.

at80eighty:


abdul: more than one case in which people have been gunned down in absolute surprise

which qualifies as routinely enough to distrust the govt at large since time immemorial and arm everyone. well I'm sold.

I'm giving you an example. We have cases of police going on rampages. We've even had postal workers just decide it's time to slaughter people. Of course, that happens less often now, but I assure you it is not because of adaptations to our gun laws.

Iron Chef Scottish:
So by your definition somebody could take a sh*t in your sandwich, call your mother a tuppeny hooer and tell you your shoes were ghastly, but as long as they didn't try to rob you they'd be 'polite'. Face it. It's a twatty little soundbite that doesn't bear more than 2 seconds rational scrutiny. I just spent a splendid weekend in the Cotswolds, the people were charming, helpful and well mannered. And to think they managed it without thinking I was going to pop a cap in their bottoms....

I find it deliciously ironic that those from the very cradle of the English language tend to be the ones who abuse it egregiously.

So by your definition somebody could take a sh*t in your sandwich, call your mother a tuppeny hooer and tell you your shoes were ghastly, but as long as they didn't try to rob you they'd be 'polite'. Face it. It's a twatty little soundbite that doesn't bear more than 2 seconds rational scrutiny. I just spent a splendid weekend in the Cotswolds, the people were charming, helpful and well mannered. And to think they managed it without thinking I was going to pop a cap in their bottoms....

Robert Heinlein, who originally said "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his words with his life," is often taken seriously out of context.

What Heinlein was addressing is the idea that a high disparity in arms between law abiding citizens and criminals is a very bad thing. Criminals will, by definition, defy laws and arm themselves to the teeth. They than begin to prey on the unarmed, law abiding folks with reckless abandonment. The UK is currently experiencing this - gun crimes have risen every year since 2000 (up 5% in 2004 and 4% in 2008). This says nothing about the rise of knife crimes and "knife culture."

Isn't it amusing that, even though you have tougher and tougher restrictions that prevent good citizens from protecting themselves, that your violent crime rises? Funny enough, firearms laws in the US have gotten more and more lax (including the functionally useless but often cited expiration of our "assault weapons" ban). Every time new pro-gun laws are enacted, anti-gun groups shrill about bloodbaths and fantasy scenarios ("With concealed carry laws, fender bender traffic accidents will become shootouts!" "Drunk gun owners will turn domestic arguments into murder!"). Yet, firearm crime has dropped prodigiously in the US over the last few years according to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports.

Shatner's Bassoon: dr-shotgun:
See, that is the thing - carrying a firearm is not about being scared any more than keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen is about being scared.

Keeping a fire extinguisher next to an oven is fair enough. It's when you feel the need to carry a fire extinguisher with you every time you go out the front door that you look a bit paranoid.

I'll make sure to tell me and everyone I know that has a portable fire extinguisher in their vehicle that they are just being paranoid - if I'm in a car on fire on the freeway I'll just wait for the fire department to help me.

I went to a pistol range once and got into a friendly shooting competition with a local cop (during which I out-shot him in all but speed shooting). We had a nice conversation afterwords.

He was clearly not worried about me at all.

It is the people behind the objects that matter.

Should the cop be concerned if a kid is walking down the street with Machete in hand waving it about? Sure, I would be. Should a kid be able to buy one on-line at age 15 in England? I donno.

Would I be worried if my 15 year old son purchased a machete? No. He is a well balanced kid. We live in the country and own 6 acres of dense wouldlands with lots of brambles. Matter of fact, I think I will ask him to get one for me today. Mine is old and bent. (insert joke here)

abdul: It turns out that in most places, being a regular citizen without a criminal record is just enough to pull it off.

In most places. Again, sometimes you get an officer who has.. ethical difficulties approving the permits. Think pharmacist who won't stock morning-after pills.

at80eighty: Gen. Apathy: Many Americans just have a intense distrust of gov't

why? Does your government routinely break into every home and harass the average citizen at inconvenient times of the day?

No certainly not. And that's an amazing simplification. I was writing in reference to how our country was founded - in rebellion against its current gov't. So we tend to distrust/question authority.

Is it always rational? No. But the sentiment exists. I am sure many Brits feel the same about their own gov't.

Oh and yes, sometimes authorities do break into innocent people's homes, or illegally search and seize property or detain people for no reasons and without charge or access to counsel. But then again, governments have been doing this since the birth of "civilization". What power they can have, they take, it sometimes seems. I don't worry about it. I worry more about criminals than the gov't.

Most of my guns just sit in a safe. Unless I go to the range or out in the country to shoot at targets. Thankfully I have never had to fire at a human being and hopefully never will.

Pinko_Commie: if you're under 18 you can't buy a machete and you can't buy a paring knife, or anything in between. Probably mainly because of your argument, you can stab someone with any sort of knife, and to be honest, if you're wandering around with a 9 inch butcher knife in your pocket, it's not as if you're carrying it on the off chance of doing a little bit of food preparation at the side of the road.

age required to buy knives in most US states is 16, not 18
federal government doesnt mandate knife laws

Lenin: a gopher punch

Is that like a donkey punch?

dr-shotgun: To a society where firearms are vilified and there is talk of "stab proof" knives and carrying a Leatherman would land you in jail for 10 years

It wouldn't - the guy who said that is completely ignorant of the law. A leatherman would be fine due to the length of blade, and even the people who are caught with illegal knives are let off with a caution in 4 out 5 cases. And the maximum term is 4 years, not 10.

Shatner's Bassoon: dr-shotgun:
See, that is the thing - carrying a firearm is not about being scared any more than keeping a fire extinguisher in the kitchen is about being scared.

Keeping a fire extinguisher next to an oven is fair enough. It's when you feel the need to carry a fire extinguisher with you every time you go out the front door that you look a bit paranoid.

Not really.

You are more likely to be attacked by a stranger outside your home, just like you are more likely to experience a fire in your own home.

What you are saying is the equivalent of saying "feeling the need to keep a jack and spare tire in your car whenever you go out driving makes you look paranoid".

Flats rarely happen. I've had about two in my adult life while I was out driving. I've been physically attacked once (and needed 13 stitches).

So in my experience, they have roughly the same frequency.

/Never had a fire at home, either, but I keep two fire extinguishers just the same.

Keeping a fire extinguisher next to an oven is fair enough. It's when you feel the need to carry a fire extinguisher with you every time you go out the front door that you look a bit paranoid.

Fair enough. But does my (legally, having gone through multiple background checks and having been trained) carrying a firearm have any negative effect on society?

Every time a state has enacted CCW legislation, the anti-gun side of the debate plays this game. They have little in the way of evidence to substantiate their claims, so they start presenting scenarios to draw a negative picture of gun ownership. Like I said above - thins like minor traffic accidents turning into shootouts. Bar brawls becoming gunfights. Armed citizens running around, acing like cops.

But the reality is that, in every state where CCW legislation gets passed, none of this sort of stuff happens with any regularity. The sort of people willing to walk into the police department, get fingerprinted, show training credentials, pass a background check and fork over $100 are just not the sort of people predisposed to let scenarios like the above happen to them in the first place. I've never been in a fistfight in my life and I sure as hell am not going to get into one if I am carrying. Most people recognize this, so you find CCW holders are (according to statistics from Florida which are the best kept records) something like 40X more law abiding than the average citizen. In fact, Florida found that CCW holders have a lower per-capita crime rate than sworn police officers.

dagman ".....wouldlands..."

I think dittybopper might find that all deliciously egregious and sh*t, but in an ironic way.

The staggering twattishness of the ill-educated is never more apparent than in UK threads! Bless you all!

You will NOT get 10 years for carrying a pocket knife unless you use it maliciously! I got stopped in Victoria station with a tool kit containing a stanley and spare blades and my Swiss Army knife in my pocket. The coppers went through everything and didn't even bat an eyelid because I was on my way to work.

Maximum sentence is NOT the same as a mandatory sentence. It's like you lot think Judge Dredd-style sentencing is in use here!

mgf:

I'll make sure to tell me and everyone I know that has a portable fire extinguisher in their vehicle that they are just being paranoid - if I'm in a car on fire on the freeway I'll just wait for the fire department to help me.

Yes, please do that. Because it's obvious that when I said that it's fair enough to keep a fire extinguisher next to an oven that that was the only hot and flammable environment where I would consider it fair enough, otherwise I would have written an exhaustive list no matter how long it took. I'm just that pedantic.

pat-246:
age required to buy knives in most US states is 16, not 18
federal government doesnt mandate knife laws

Except for that stupid Switchblade law, but even that isn't a ban on possession, just on interstate commerce of them (which is effectively a ban).

Luckily, even in NYS you can own a switchblade or gravity knife, and you can carry it on your person if you are actively engaged in fishing, hunting, or trapping. Problem is actually getting them.

abdul: We have cases of police going on rampages. We've even had postal workers just decide it's time to slaughter people.

I know , I've heard of those cases - but having lived in a few gun free societies I just guess it's a perspective thing and I try to wonder if the incidents in the larger perspective are worth the tradeoff of having the risk of arming everyone

Gen. Apathy: uthorities do break into innocent people's homes, or illegally search and seize property or detain people for no reasons and without charge or access to counsel.

So how does a firearm help in that case?

dittybopper:
What you are saying is the equivalent of saying "feeling the need to keep a jack and spare tire in your car whenever you go out driving makes you look paranoid".

Flats rarely happen. I've had about two in my adult life while I was out driving. I've been physically attacked once (and needed 13 stitches).

Which kind of goes back to binnster's original question of is the US really that dangerous that you need to carry a gun everywhere. Apparently it is. Fair enough.

Iron Chef Scottish: dagman ".....wouldlands..."

I think dittybopper might find that all deliciously egregious and sh*t, but in an ironic way.

Yeah... was just putting that out there for a bite. (not really)

It's early and my brain doesn't function so well in the morning.

Maybe I should be outlawed in England.

It wouldn't - the guy who said that is completely ignorant of the law. A leatherman would be fine due to the length of blade, and even the people who are caught with illegal knives are let off with a caution in 4 out 5 cases. And the maximum term is 4 years, not 10.

I read your law, it is pathetic.

1- Leathermans have locking blades. In fact, any quality folding knife has a locking blade so as to insure it doesn't close during use and fillet your fingers.

2- Who defines "good reason?" Any time a law hinges on something as ill defined as that, I have to wonder how it is going to be enforced. As a US citizen, walking down a London street with my 2.5" blade Leatherman Skeletool (made here in Portland I might add), do I have "good reason" to own such a tool? I use it every day for various tasks, so I think I have good reason. Will a bobby think I do? Is stabbing the chav trying to rob me a "good reason?"

The Envoy Absolutely right. Coupled to the fact that the US locks up more people than anywhere else in the world (7 million in prison, on parole or probation), the whole 'we sh*t freedom and piss liberty' line starts to lodge in the craw somewhat.
I know, I know, they're black. Just like the fellows skewing all those figures for gun crime. The elephant in the room for US Farkers in any gun thread.

Iron Chef Scottish: dagman ".....wouldlands..."

I think dittybopper might find that all deliciously egregious and sh*t, but in an ironic way.

Spelling errors != Excessive use of profanity and regional slang.

The first is an honest mistake. Everyone makes them from time to time, and of course they can be enhanced by spellcheck errors (like this one seems to be). Certainly, there is a line between occasional errors and the consistent misspellings of the semi-literate, but I try not to be a spelling Nazi because I make mistakes myself from time to time.

The second is merely inflammatory and tends to obscure the meaning except for those reasonably familiar with whatever patois you happen to be using. Also, it reflects poorly on your argument that you need to resort to such constructs.

Although, I must admit, it does provide some hilarity if I mentally read it using that horrid Cockney accent that Dick van Dyke used in "Mary Poppins".

Illidan: abdul: It turns out that in most places, being a regular citizen without a criminal record is just enough to pull it off.

In most places. Again, sometimes you get an officer who has.. ethical difficulties approving the permits. Think pharmacist who won't stock morning-after pills.

To be perfectly honest with you, I'm happy with that problem, because you can always find another avenue. You will rarely find a unified front in the police community when it comes to gun laws, whereas you can simply walk to the next pharmacy for your contraception. The beauty of this is that the pharmacist gets to have his illusion of religious righteousness, and thereby freedom of religion, but you still get what you want.

You will never find a state in this country where you can't get a concealed carry permit if you actually try to do it, and you don't have a criminal record. With the exception of New York City and parts of California, you will always succeed if you actually research and take the time to try.

at80eighty: What is the risk of arming everyone? As long as Americans take the time out of their drive-thru visits and yoga lessons to teach their children about firearms, there is no significant danger in having ubiquitous firearms. If you read through the history of the Oregon Trail, you don't find a lot of cases of children doing stupid things and getting themselves killed, because the parents actually paid attention to them! Believe it or not, it is the parents' responsibility to take care of their children, even in 21st century America. When kids find their dad's gun and shoot their little brother, my major regret is always that the child probably didn't understand that he was holding a potentially fatal weapon. Nobody ever comes back to ask the kid what he thought he was doing, they always blame it on the parents, and it's because they SHOULD blame it on the parents.

Iron Chef Scottish: The Envoy Absolutely right. Coupled to the fact that the US locks up more people than anywhere else in the world (7 million in prison, on parole or probation), the whole 'we sh*t freedom and piss liberty' line starts to lodge in the craw somewhat.
I know, I know, they're black. Just like the fellows skewing all those figures for gun crime. The elephant in the room for US Farkers in any gun thread.

It's not an elephant in the room when I'm in the thread: I make that point quite plainly, and I back it up with facts and figures direct from what are generally considered solid sources (like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention). I think it should be openly discussed, because if it isn't recognized, the problem won't be solved.

The issue with having an open discussion about it is that race is a touchy subject. Hopefully, one side effect of the Obama presidency is that it will become less touchy, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

adamgreeney: Um, i don't sell knives to kids under 18 either subby. Why is that bad? I'd rather not have their parents come back and stab me with it, and I don't want to be liable for what they do.

I fail to see how this is a fail.

Your profile begs to differ:

I own a small business where i sell swords and knives to any and all.

/Approves

abdul: When kids find their dad's gun and shoot their little brother, my major regret is always that the child probably didn't understand that he was holding a potentially fatal weapon.

I'm hard pressed to believe that kids, esp of today's generation are not aware that guns have serious consequences. when a kid goes pew pew pew they know what a gun does - they see it in the media. they know.

dr-shotgun: I am sure to the average person in the UK, this all sounds positively barbarian.

Yes it does.

To a society where firearms are vilified

I wouldn't say they are vilified, we just don't really care about them, they are not part of our society or culture. Never really had them, don't see the need for every Tom, Dick and Harry to be armed.

and there is talk of "stab proof" knives and carrying a Leatherman would land you in jail for 10 years

I don't see an issue with "stab proof" knives. I would say that 99.99% of knife usage is for cutting and not for stabbing, so there is no real reason for kitchen knives and the like to have a pointy end, other than that's the shape that knives traditionally are (because there historically was a need to use them for stabbing things, these days, not so much). I've already covered the fallacy that carrying a Leatherman will land you inside a couple of posts up.

the fact that I am typing this with a loaded, chambered Glock in a holster on my hip must sound very odd.

Very.

The reality is nothing like that - the vast majority of America is relatively free of crime.

So free of crime that you find yourself having to carry 24/7? Is the area you live in that bad that you feel you have to wear your gun even while sat (I'm assuming) in your own home?

Thee vast majority of the UK is also free from crime. Violent crime is generally an urban issue.

People are going to be violent regardless of the tools they use, guns, knives, rocks or fists.

Eudeyrn: instead of something easy like 7/7/77.

One of my old friends from college has this birthdate. It's hilarious because some of the places with the fancy-schmancy computer systems will actually *reject* his real birthday as being fake to prevent cashiers from doing this.

On another note, 8/8/88 will be legal for everything pretty soon. Anyone else feel old yet?

dittybopper: Iron Chef Scottish: dagman ".....wouldlands..."

I think dittybopper might find that all deliciously egregious and sh*t, but in an ironic way.

Spelling errors != Excessive use of profanity and regional slang.

The first is an honest mistake. Everyone makes them from time to time, and of course they can be enhanced by spellcheck errors (like this one seems to be). Certainly, there is a line between occasional errors and the consistent misspellings of the semi-literate, but I try not to be a spelling Nazi because I make mistakes myself from time to time.

The second is merely inflammatory and tends to obscure the meaning except for those reasonably familiar with whatever patois you happen to be using. Also, it reflects poorly on your argument that you need to resort to such constructs.

Although, I must admit, it does provide some hilarity if I mentally read it using that horrid Cockney accent that Dick van Dyke used in "Mary Poppins".

WOW.

Carry on.

(umm.. checks "Carry" 'cuz it consists of 5 letters)
/Paranoid now. Thanks. Where's my machete?

DancingJester: You are perfectly entitled to defend yourself, you just have to do it with fists and or whatever is to hand, you can't be in public and prepared for a fight.

As a wiser muppet than I once said:

THAT is why you fail.

Some people apparently think the US is so dangerous you can't walk around without being killed.

It's just not true, what you're seeing in this thread is a collection of examples, most of them extreme, but none of them unrealistic.

I walk around unarmed all the time, and I have never been attacked by anybody.

What those of us who want our firearm rights are saying is that you never know if you will be attacked.

Most places in the US are very safe, probably safer than wherever you hail from. Places like Detroit get a bad rap, but I could write two books on the causes of that without ever touching on gun laws.

You are simplifying it to an absurd level. There is no way to quantify a given region's violence level and compare it to any other region, without also taking into account the situation those people live in. Take Detroit, which is literally a failing city. Within the last 10 years, the city has collapsed within itself, and it is as close to a modern dystopia as you can get. Yes, Detroit is absolutely a worst-case scenario in America, but it is a very small part of the country.

Those of you in the UK appear to forget how large the United States is. The UK has about .026% the land area of the US, or 244,820 sq km versus 9,161,923 sq km. Does that kind of land area even register to British citizens nowadays? It is MASSIVE compared to your tiny island. Our population is many times larger.

Even with that, neither of our countries is anywhere close to being as violent as Brazil. Why does nobody ever remember Brazil? Has anybody even glanced at violence statistics in that country? It's absolutely horrifying. I am under the impression that if I simply set foot in Sao Paulo I will be immediately raped 17 times, and murdered at least twice, despite that being strictly impossible.

So, in the UK, I take it there aren't that many fantasy nerds that adorn their walls with those crazy "decorative" knives and swords.

Shatner's Bassoon: dittybopper:
What you are saying is the equivalent of saying "feeling the need to keep a jack and spare tire in your car whenever you go out driving makes you look paranoid".

Flats rarely happen. I've had about two in my adult life while I was out driving. I've been physically attacked once (and needed 13 stitches).

Which kind of goes back to binnster's original question of is the US really that dangerous that you need to carry a gun everywhere. Apparently it is. Fair enough.

Depends on where you go.

Most places in the US have lower crime than you would find in the UK, with the exception of homicide. We have fewer assaults, fewer burglaries, fewer car thefts.

Even with homicide, though, unless you are in a bad part of a major city, your risk of being killed isn't really greater than in the UK, from any practical standpoint.