Damn, the Republicans are even pissing off the fundies now? Awesome! I love watching their base shrink.

"If we place our hope in a political party or a politician, we'll be let down," said Brandt Waggoner, 25, a student at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., who said he spoke for many young evangelicals. "My hope is in God and not in the government."

That's a good start kiddo, but when you start voting on issues of national or statewide interest, rather than "values" wedge issues, then your statement will have been truthful and accurate.

"The Republican Party is still going to be, at a minimum, the lesser of two evils"

Flip this for the LGBT community, which is understandably upset with Obama for not moving their agenda forward. They may be pissed with Obama, but they're not going to vote for a Republican, and he knows that.

I've been more happy than upset w/ him so far, but he's dead wrong on the gay issue. He's got all the power and should have overturned DADT on Jan 21st.

How can I trust someone to uphold the laws of the land when they can't uphold their marriage vows?"

Did you vote for Reagan, lady?

The butthurt is strong....

Just wait until they finally figure out that the Republican party has never had any intention of trying to get Roe v. Wade overturned and (probably) deliberately sought to keep it in place.

Yeah, its the politicians which are the problem. Not the fundies. They're the normal ones.

/that was sarcasm

Most politicians are filthy. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

Maddogjew: Damn, the Republicans are even pissing off the fundies now? Awesome! I love watching their base shrink.

And the great thing is that the corporate cons with all of the money didn't get that money by backing a losing horse. If the evangelicals go, the money men will soon follow.

or maybe filthy Politicians are begining to realize they're hanging out with Filthy Evangelicals.


/dev/null/GOP

Maddogjew: Damn, the Republicans are even pissing off the fundies now? Awesome! I love watching their base shrink.

It's their only hope. They have to get rid of the brainless mobs and get real ideas that work instead of relying on social trends to market their crap.

Let them go down the drain together.

Form your own party, featuring only leaders approved by the church. Call is Party Of the Savior, or some such.

make me some tea: Most politicians are filthy. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

No, they all are, just some are better at hiding it than others.

what_now: They may be pissed with Obama, but they're not going to vote for a Republican, and he knows that.

Not true we can elect not to vote at all and let the chips fall where they may. We survived eight years of Bush and two attempts to amend the constituion against gay marrige. Well be ok.

what_now: "The Republican Party is still going to be, at a minimum, the lesser of two evils"

Flip this for the LGBT community, which is understandably upset with Obama for not moving their agenda forward. They may be pissed with Obama, but they're not going to vote for a Republican, and he knows that.

I've been more happy than upset w/ him so far, but he's dead wrong on the gay issue. He's got all the power and should have overturned DADT on Jan 21st.

Politically, it's too big of an opening for the Republicans to overturn DADT. They'll start screaming about how he doesn't care about the economy if he has the time to focus on DADT and DOMA; even if it what they throw is the usual load of crap.

meat0918: Politically, it's too big of an opening for the Republicans to overturn DADT. They'll start screaming about how he doesn't care about the economy if he has the time to focus on DADT and DOMA; even if it what they throw is the usual load of crap.

By that logic, you're arguing he should NEVER overturn DADT

meat0918: what_now: "The Republican Party is still going to be, at a minimum, the lesser of two evils"

Flip this for the LGBT community, which is understandably upset with Obama for not moving their agenda forward. They may be pissed with Obama, but they're not going to vote for a Republican, and he knows that.

I've been more happy than upset w/ him so far, but he's dead wrong on the gay issue. He's got all the power and should have overturned DADT on Jan 21st.

Politically, it's too big of an opening for the Republicans to overturn DADT. They'll start screaming about how he doesn't care about the economy if he has the time to focus on DADT and DOMA; even if it what they throw is the usual load of crap.

Actually, right now would the PERFECT time to do it. Let them scream about family values and bullshiat while we're still talking about Gov. Sanford (R-gentina) and Senator Ensign (R-andy).


(sorry about the Ensign one, but nothing is as good as r-gentina)

This is an unholy marriage that really hasn't worked for either side.

Jesus All The Beer Names Are Taken: what_now: wrong on the gay issue

You'll get over it.

No, actually I won't. And I don't even HAVE teh ghey. Imagine how my friends feel.

maybe they will go back to their trailer parks and leave us the hell alone

Maddogjew: Damn, the Republicans are even pissing off the fundies now? Awesome! I love watching their base shrink.

Feel free to disagree, but it seems to me like the fundies are entirely what is wrong with the Republican party. Without them, the party would actually be useful.

Evangelicals and their stubbornness on social issues is what is causing the current decline of the GOP. Perhaps having them be less active could be a net plus.

Unless you think candidates like Palin are good for the future of the GOP...

bartink: Evangelicals and their stubbornness on social issues is what is causing the current decline of the GOP. Perhaps having them be less active could be a net plus.

Unless you think candidates like Palin are good for the future of the GOP...

I'm surprised the bible-thumpers haven't formed their own party (instead of holding a party hostage). They could abandon the republican party, which in turn would only help the republicans, form their own party and try to run as president of the United Biblical States of Jesusland.

NeverDrunk23: bartink: Evangelicals and their stubbornness on social issues is what is causing the current decline of the GOP. Perhaps having them be less active could be a net plus.

Unless you think candidates like Palin are good for the future of the GOP...

I'm surprised the bible-thumpers haven't formed their own party (instead of holding a party hostage). They could abandon the republican party, which in turn would only help the republicans, form their own party and try to run as president of the United Biblical States of Jesusland.

If they did that, they wouldn't have the money coming in from the corporate sponsorship. It's why the fundies took over the GOP instead of forming their own party in the first place.

Gotta remember the fundamentalist demographic is mainly poor working class folks. With their numbers, they can elect party officers to make policy and spend money.... but that money first comes from the rich fatcats, who placate the base with social laws while stuffing their pockets with expenditures and tax breaks.

FTA Historically, evangelicals have cycled through periods of political engagement and withdrawal from the electoral scrum. (...) "We may be coming to an end of [that] cycle,"

hej: Feel free to disagree, but it seems to me like the fundies are entirely what is wrong with the Republican party. Without them, the party would actually be useful.

No, I agree with you completely. I'd love to see the Republicans get their shiat together. I don't mind fiscal conservatives, It's the social conservatives that need to DIAF. The fiscal conservatives often have some good ideas. The social conservatives are bat shiat insane and need to be culled.

They should totally just split into a third party. Win-win.

Lenny_da_Hog: NeverDrunk23: bartink:

Gotta remember the fundamentalist Democratic demographic is mainly poor working class folks. With their numbers, they can elect party officers to make policy and spend money.... but that money first comes from the rich fatcats, who placate the base with social laws while stuffing their pockets with expenditures and tax breaks.

There's enough working class poor to make up both parties and with 11% unemployment, plenty of non-working class poor as well.

NeverDrunk23: bartink: Evangelicals and their stubbornness on social issues is what is causing the current decline of the GOP. Perhaps having them be less active could be a net plus.

Unless you think candidates like Palin are good for the future of the GOP...

I'm surprised the bible-thumpers haven't formed their own party (instead of holding a party hostage). They could abandon the republican party, which in turn would only help the republicans, form their own party and try to run as president of the United Biblical States of Jesusland.

It will be interesting watching the Bible thumpers try to form their own party. FSM, they can't even form a single coherent denomination! If they're going to despise each other over grape juice or wine, crackers or matzos, then they're certainly not going to be able to form a political party. It will be hysterically amusing watching them fail at it, though.

HempHead:
There's enough working class poor to make up both parties and with 11% unemployment, plenty of non-working class poor as well.

Bravo. But this has absolutely nothing to do with the point. You see, the Democrats already are not part of the Republican party.

Those fundamentalists used to vote for Democrats. In the late 70s, they were convinced by their religious leaders to storm the GOP caucuses and take over the party leadership.

This is why you have fundamentalists making policy and the corporate fatcats providing the cash.

As an Orthodox Atheist I am getting a kick out of this!!

NeverDrunk23: I'm surprised the bible-thumpers haven't formed their own party (instead of holding a party hostage). They could abandon the republican party, which in turn would only help the republicans, form their own party and try to run as president of the United Biblical States of Jesusland.

We're screwed as a country if they ever manage to do such a thing, since they'd likely be enormously successful. There's no more reliable voting demographic than "people who vote against things their church tells them to hate".

what_now: "The Republican Party is still going to be, at a minimum, the lesser of two evils"

Flip this for the LGBT community, which is understandably upset with Obama for not moving their agenda forward. They may be pissed with Obama, but they're not going to vote for a Republican, and he knows that.

I've been more happy than upset w/ him so far, but he's dead wrong on the gay issue. He's got all the power and should have overturned DADT on Jan 21st.

People think that DADT is the only item on the agenda. It isn't. It isn't even number one. Get the the hate crimes bill passed, get ENDA passed, then focus on DADT and the 'defense of marriage act'. I am not upset with Obama. These things take farking time. Personally I am just happy that we have a president who can read.

/gay
//I more concerned with the lack of transparency than gay issues

What an Evangeligal may look like:



/For subby.

Lenny_da_Hog: Gotta remember the fundamentalist demographic is mainly poor working class folks. With their numbers, they can elect party officers to make policy and spend money.... but that money first comes from the rich fatcats, who placate the base with social laws while stuffing their pockets with expenditures and tax breaks.

Hmmm(^)...I'm not sure your thesis stands up to scrutiny.

Maddogjew: Damn, the Republicans are even pissing off the fundies now? Awesome! I love watching their base shrink.

Yeah, the base may shrink if the fundies leave.

But that is just in the short term. Long term, it would be in the best interest of the Republican party for them to leave.

bravian:
People think that DADT is the only item on the agenda. It isn't. It isn't even number one. Get the the hate crimes bill passed, get ENDA passed, then focus on DADT and the 'defense of marriage act'. I am not upset with Obama. These things take farking time. Personally I am just happy that we have a president who can read.

/gay
//I more concerned with the lack of transparency than gay issues

The Hate Crimes Bill should never pass. DADT and DOMA repealing are perfectly benign, and will probably have a much larger impact on gay rights advancement, but the Hate Crimes Bill is a BIG enchilada. Same with ENDA.

/Generally supports gay rights
//Does not support making gays a "protected class"
///Doesn't think "protected classes" should exist

ShutterGeek: Lenny_da_Hog: Gotta remember the fundamentalist demographic is mainly poor working class folks. With their numbers, they can elect party officers to make policy and spend money.... but that money first comes from the rich fatcats, who placate the base with social laws while stuffing their pockets with expenditures and tax breaks.

Hmmm(^)...I'm not sure your thesis stands up to scrutiny.

Thesis, hell. It's called history, son. Read about Ralph Reed, Pat Robertson, and the Christian Coalition. A handful of megachurches doesn't change a thing.

Reed acquired Jerry Falwell's mailing lists from the Moral Majority. He and Robertson then set out to educate fundamentalists across the country on how to swarm the GOP caucuses, elect their church partners as officers, and take over the party committees.

They brought little money to the party, but they brought loyal votes.

The thing I am most confused about christian fundamentalist who vote Republican is this: Jesus did a ot of things including feeding the poor and healing the sick. The Christians want to emulate Jesus with their WWJD bracelets, yet they vote against any kind of national healthcare and try and cut any kind of social program that will help te poor.

lasercannon: The thing I am most confused about christian fundamentalist who vote Republican is this: Jesus did a ot of things including feeding the poor and healing the sick. The Christians want to emulate Jesus with their WWJD bracelets, yet they vote against any kind of national healthcare and try and cut any kind of social program that will help te poor.

Yeah, that's what makes this stuff so scary:



...because it's true.

what_now: "The Republican Party is still going to be, at a minimum, the lesser of two evils"

Flip this for the LGBT community, which is understandably upset with Obama for not moving their agenda forward. They may be pissed with Obama, but they're not going to vote for a Republican, and he knows that.

I've been more happy than upset w/ him so far, but he's dead wrong on the gay issue. He's got all the power and should have overturned DADT on Jan 21st.

My understanding is that without changes to law (ie Congressional action), overturning DADT will result in gays being banned from the military, just like now, with the added bonus that they can go looking for it. It's not as simple as it sounds.

It requires pushing congress to change the UCMJ.

...and the pig got up and slowly walked away.

Lenny_da_Hog: Thesis, hell. It's called history, son. Read about Ralph Reed, Pat Robertson, and the Christian Coalition. A handful of megachurches doesn't change a thing.

History is something used to support a thesis.

As for your the people and organizations you cite, they are wealthy and powerful, funded primarily by their religious supporters.

There are plenty of wealthy evangelicals. And even the poor ones are willing to give a surprising share of their income to churches and to the political organizations their churches support.

I'm not saying their numbers aren't also important. I'm just saying that there is plenty of wealth in the evangelical movement to sustain a faith based political party. If they are willing to make common cause with conservative Catholics they'd do even better.

They'd produce nutty candidates, but well funded nutty candidates.

Truth is, if Jesus were alive today, he would be criticized for hanging around with 12 guys. He would be called a cult leader because he called himself the son of God.

His teaching would be shunned by the clergy, who think that forgiving people is wrong, and that no man can change, except when they testify at their own church.

He would be arrested for vandalism for attacking a Logos bookstore. His attacks on the clergy for hypocrisy would be thought of as anti church. He would be called a closet Jew.

Rush Limbaugh would attack him for criticizing the rich, and blessing the poor, saying he "sides with welfare cheats." He would be proclaimed a liberal by the Republicans.

His quote, "Judge not, lest ye be judged" brand him as supporting the "gay agenda" and being "pro-abortion."

His statement, "Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar's" would brand him a tax and spend guy. He would be called a Socialist and a redistributer of wealth. How dare he feed the poor.

In short, Jesus would be treated the same way he was 2000 years ago, by the very folks who follow him.

meat0918: Politically, it's too big of an opening for the Republicans to overturn DADT. They'll start screaming about how he doesn't care about the economy if he has the time to focus on DADT and DOMA; even if it what they throw is the usual load of crap.

I bet Obama could successfully counter that by pointing out the number of gay Arabic and Korean linguists that have been kicked out even as the military-industrial complex whines that they don't have enough linguists.

Maddogjew

Damn, the Republicans are even pissing off the fundies now? Awesome! I love watching their base shrink.

Only in the deluded liberal imagination of the LA Times.

Fact is, it makes to vote for someone who advocates policies you like, even if their personal life doesn't live up to it, when the alternative is some Democrat who supports policies you dislike.

And it's not like Democrats don't have affairs. More over, this is cherrypicking a few Republicans out of the the hundreds eligible for national attention (Congressmen, Senators, governors, etc).

Furthermore, this hoopla is the result of a double standard left/liberal propagandists like Colbert and Stewart apply to Republicans vs. Democrats. Eliot Spitzer of NY prosecuted financial misdeeds and sex businesses, then used campaign funds to hire hookers (and committed adultery BTW, despite his pro-family public pose). Yet somehow he's an isolated case, not a poster child for Democratic hypocrisy.

Lost Thought 00: //Does not support making gays a "protected class"
///Doesn't think "protected classes" should exist

Hate crimes legislation doesn't make gays a protected class; it makes sexual orientation a protected classification, heterosexuality included.

grotto_man: Only in the deluded liberal imagination of the LA Times.

Fact is, it makes to vote for someone who advocates policies you like, even if their personal life doesn't live up to it, when the alternative is some Democrat who supports policies you dislike.

Hey, either way I don't give a shiat. If the fundies go or stay it makes no difference. The old bastards that vote Republican are dying off, the Hispanics hate you guys, the gays despise you, the blacks never liked you to begin with, and the college educated tend toward the left at a 2 to 1 ratio. Oh yea, y'all are done, stick a fork in your ass. I personally don't give a rat's ass if some politicians screw around on their wives. That is none of my business. I do however, love to hear of anything that cripples your diseased ideology even further.

If anything, the evangelicals have helped kill the Republican Party: the small government/libertarian wing can't stand them.

On a personal note, I can't stand the evangelicals either: they want to tell the rest of us how to live, and when the rest of us say no, they scream, whine, and cry that they're "under attack." Well yes, you are under attack. You see, most Americans don't want a theocracy. You want a theocracy? Go to Oklahoma and secede.

If these Republican sex scandals steer evangelicals away from politics, then I would call them a blessing in diguise.