Subby? Do you REALLY think no one knows what you're doing?

The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

mfaby: which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

and if there's one thing republicans know about it's killing the economy.

mfaby: The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

[insert confused dog picture here]

mfaby: Subby? Do you REALLY think no one knows what you're doing?

The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

Typical rightie response.

The fact is, both sides are guilty of the "hurry up and vote without reading it" tactic and sucks when either party does it.

doublesecretprobation: mfaby: which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

and if there's one thing republicans know about it's killing the economy.

Listening to a Republican about the economy is like being threatened by Smokey the Bear with a flamethrower. You know there's danger involved and somehow he may even be trying to make a point, but it's all just too bizarre to process.

The reasons there are two responses from the GOP can easily be explained thusly:

We read the bible everyday, so we are used to reading many pages of text - which is why we can vote on these bills so quick. In the case of the stimulus bill, we are simply expressing concerns about the reading speed and comprehension of our fellow democrats.

The Republicans in Congress hate it so no matter how excruciatingly bad this completely unread and unknown might be it's "Damn the torpedoes!"

We are so frkked.

FTFA: "As for the Republicans, several minority members blasted the Democrats for forcing the floor debate today without giving lawmakers enough time to review the legislation."

Last time I check the Republicans were still the GOP right? Subby apparently didn't read the article.

mfaby: The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

Wait. So it "looks like it will fail" so they want a vote... but if they read it, "it would surely fail" so... nobody should read it before voting?

That's... odd logic.

Dancin_In_Anson: The Republicans in Congress hate it so no matter how excruciatingly bad this completely unread and unknown might be it's "Damn the torpedoes!"

So if it is "unread and unknown," isn't their hatred of it, sort of, premature, if not irrational?

serpent_sky: mfaby: The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

Wait. So it "looks like it will fail" so they want a vote... but if they read it, "it would surely fail" so... nobody should read it before voting?

That's... odd logic.

isn't odd logic still better than no logic at all ?

BritneysSpeculum: So if it is "unread and unknown," isn't their hatred of it, sort of, premature, if not irrational?

I'd go with a no based on the general concept. But by all means...press on, get it over to the Senate and Obama's desk ASAP!

BritneysSpeculum: Dancin_In_Anson: The Republicans in Congress hate it so no matter how excruciatingly bad this completely unread and unknown might be it's "Damn the torpedoes!"

So if it is "unread and unknown," isn't their hatred of it, sort of, premature, if not irrational?

Eh, between voting for a bill that has enormous policy and budgetary ramifications to the tune of billions or even trillions of dollars and voting against said bill, I guess it would be marginally better to vote against it. In other words, I would see the logic of someone saying, "I haven't had the time to read this, so I can't support something I haven't read." It's an incongruous position, no doubt, but it's largely a tactical move. I'm sure your average Congresscritter is more up to speed on Michael Jackson's death than on the contents of this bill.

Dancin_In_Anson: BritneysSpeculum: So if it is "unread and unknown," isn't their hatred of it, sort of, premature, if not irrational?

I'd go with a no based on the general concept. But by all means...press on, get it over to the Senate and Obama's desk ASAP!

If we could kill the bill off right now with no questions asked, would you drop your objections to it not having been studied enough ?

I'm good with that, just curious.

Mordant: If we could kill the bill off right now with no questions asked, would you drop your objections to it not having been studied enough ?

I'm good with that, just curious.

Do you think it is a good idea to rush through a bill of this nature and is voting in favor of it without reading it a responsible thing to do?

The reason I said I'm good with it is that I generally prefer inaction to the risk of making a wrong decision that might have dramatic consequences. The risk in may cases is that inaction might also result in immediate consequences, but in this case we're talking long term either way.

So I stand by my decision to kill it.

No they want a vote on it now because they have managed to sneak something nefarious somewhere into the 1300 page tome. Time to hit pause and figure out what mischief they are up to.

mfaby: Subby? Do you REALLY think no one knows what you're doing?

The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

So voting against a bill you never read is ok?

It stinks when either side does it.

/leans right
//voted for O

Gotta agree; this is one bill that nobody really needs to read.

Cap and Tax

Corvus: mfaby: Subby? Do you REALLY think no one knows what you're doing?

The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

So voting against a bill you never read is ok?

Let me rephrase that.

So hurrying up a bill so no one can read it, including you, to make it fail is ok?

cchris_39: Gotta agree; this is one bill that nobody really needs to read.

Cap and Tax

ahh the hypocrisy.

Code_Archeologist: they have managed to sneak something nefarious somewhere into the 1300 page tome

It's a climate bill which means by definition the whole thing is nefarious. Sneaking anything in would be like worrying that you shouldn't drink a glass full of poison because someone may have added a drop of bleach when you weren't looking.

Working for an electric coop, I just don't want to hear my neighbors biatching to me about their bills going up.

Can we just get someone who knows and understands the bill to explain it to the congresskritters first? Is that really too hard to do?

Lionel Mandrake: mfaby: Subby? Do you REALLY think no one knows what you're doing?

The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

Typical rightie response.

The fact is, both sides are guilty of the "hurry up and vote without reading it" tactic and sucks when either party does it.

The difference in this case is the Left is vying for time to get support for the bill and the Right wants to force a vote to shoot it down.

The Stimulus push was exactly the opposite - rushing for a vote in hopes of getting it passed before anyone knew what was in it.

Mordant: If we could kill the bill off right now with no questions asked, would you drop your objections to it not having been studied enough ?

Yep.

Corvus: So voting against a bill you never read is ok?

Absolutely. You don't sign contracts that you haven't read do you?

Mordant: Code_Archeologist: they have managed to sneak something nefarious somewhere into the 1300 page tome

It's a climate bill which means by definition the whole thing is nefarious. Sneaking anything in would be like worrying that you shouldn't drink a glass full of poison because someone may have added a drop of bleach when you weren't looking.

Well yeah, of course. I don't want it burning on the way down, DUH!

dr.zaeus: Working for an electric coop, I just don't want to hear my neighbors biatching to me about their bills going up.

I had to think about that for almost a minute before I stopped reading coop as one word. I couldn't figure out what the hell you were doing to chickens.

Corvus: mfaby: Subby? Do you REALLY think no one knows what you're doing?

The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

So voting against a bill you never read is ok?

Absolutely

cchris_39: Gotta agree; this is one bill that nobody really needs to read.

Cap and Tax

If you have a better way that will actually reduce this country's emissions of greenhouse gasses by the same amount as this bill, then by all means speak. Emissions need to be drastically reduced, and the surest way of promoting such reductions is to make it more expensive to emit.

If your argument is that there's a better way, lets hear it. If on the other hand you're another anti-science wingnut, we have little to discuss.

Why read it? The One^tm says to vote for it, and the sheeple libs step right up without reading it. Stand by for your ass to be taxed almightily. Way to go Obama.

Corvus: cchris_39: Gotta agree; this is one bill that nobody really needs to read.

Cap and Tax

ahh the hypocrisy.

???

Please explain - even your side admits this will trigger soaring energy costs and inflation - the only debate is how much.

Wolf_Blitzer: cchris_39: Gotta agree; this is one bill that nobody really needs to read.

Cap and Tax

If you have a better way that will actually reduce this country's emissions of greenhouse gasses by the same amount as this bill, then by all means speak. Emissions need to be drastically reduced, and the surest way of promoting such reductions is to make it more expensive to emit.

If your argument is that there's a better way, lets hear it. If on the other hand you're another anti-science wingnut, we have little to discuss.

so how do you plan on restarting the economy after you kneecap the business sector with artificially inflated energy prices?

yeah. that's what I thought.

Dancin_In_Anson: Corvus: So voting against a bill you never read is ok?

Absolutely.

haha. typical republican. the party of no

Dancin_In_Anson: Corvus: So voting against a bill you never read is ok?

Absolutely. You don't sign contracts that you haven't read do you?

I love it when people do that.

h8_u_2: haha. typical republican. the party of no

So you would sign a contract you haven't read?

Please step into my office...

Dancin_In_Anson: Absolutely. You don't sign contracts that you haven't read do you?

But how do you know that you don't want to sign the contract if you haven't read it?

I really, really want to believe in your general philosophy, Republicans, but you've got to give me an opening. Something, anything, that you can hang your hat on that isn't a total failure.

BritneysSpeculum: But how do you know that you don't want to sign the contract if you haven't read it?

Exactly. Don't do shiat until you've read it...And if the issue is forced, say no.

BritneysSpeculum: Dancin_In_Anson: Absolutely. You don't sign contracts that you haven't read do you?

But how do you know that you don't want to sign the contract if you haven't read it?

Isn't the basic premise of a contract that someone wants you to assume an obligation that you are likely to change your mind about later ?

Behold the Mighty Democratic Party!

See how it Shall Tame the Waves, Orchestrate the Winds, Herd the Fearsome Hurricanes and Typhooons as the Shepherd his Flocks, and Cause the Vast Ocean Tides and Currents to go Hither and Thither at its Stern Command!

At Pelosi's Whim the Snows Shall Waft Down From the Heavens, at Obama's Behest the Rains Shall be Ordained to Fall Moderately and Gently Upon the Fertile Fields of the Land, and Lord Henry Waxman Shall Call Forth the Sunshine in Judicious Moderation!

Tremble, Oh Lowly Ones, and Behold the Awesome Power of the Climate Bill!

Jebus. These people have lost their minds.

I'm really enjoying Mordant's similes.

Dancin_In_Anson: h8_u_2: haha. typical republican. the party of no

So you would sign a contract you haven't read?

Please step into my office...

So as long as republicans claim that haven't read the bill, that gives them another cover for you to continue to fellate them on fark. whatever.

Tragedy of the Commons

There is no way out of this mess without penalty-of-nuking enforcement of the violators.

And here we watch people pretend that Democrats and Republicans are different and only (fill in the blank) does (fill in the blank).

Democrats=Republicans

Weaver95: so how do you plan on restarting the economy after you kneecap the business sector with artificially inflated energy prices?

yeah. that's what I thought.

Your argument is premised on the idea that business will continue as usual, that companies will make no alterations to their energy policies, and simply spend themselves into oblivion. On the other hand, their is ample evidence that when confronted with these externalities, companies will do exactly what this law is intended to catalyze; minimizing of costs through reduction of wasteful energy use.

The idea that the business world is simply too hidebound and oblivious to change its energy policies is not exactly a ringing endorsement of capitalism.

Nabb1: Do you think it is a good idea to rush through a bill of this nature and is voting in favor of it without reading it a responsible thing to do?

this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, how many staff members does one farking senator have? How long will it take these idiots to read 1200 pages?

These lazy pricks are just stonewalling for ideological reasons and blaming a bill because it is too long to read is rubbish.

If you don't have the capacity to read a large volume and process the information, get the fark out and let someone who can deal with it in.

mfaby: Subby? Do you REALLY think no one knows what you're doing?

The Reps want a vote because it looks like the bill will FAIL, which it should; it will kill the U.S. economy.

So stop acting like a typical Leftist.

Besides if the bill was read it would surely fail

The Democrats must have taken the GOP's advice then. Like most bills, Reid and Pelosi are proudly declaring that they hardly read anything of the bill.

Screw congress...every piece of legislation should be read on the floor before taken to a vote. If it takes too long, well, tough sh*t - streamline legislation and get rid of the fluff. Otherwise sit through listening to the crap the committee staffers ultimately write. It needs to be a pain-in-the-ass job so maybe we wouldn't have so many career politicians.