Oops. That's embarrassing.

Embarrassing? How?

Seems to have worked.

No. It's the best time. Post this in one of those IRANBLOG 2009 circle jerks.

We did? How awful! And they never did anything to us, right?

/I think I just sprained something rolling my eyes

chemical_angel: No. It's the best time. Post this in one of those IRANBLOG 2009 circle jerks.

Do you mean the Tatsuma's Official Reality threads?
Typos, uncorrected factual errors repeated for dozens of identical threads, utter bullying of dissenting opinions. Yeesh.
They even bully the Fark admins in those threads, speaking of embarrassment.

Procedural Texture: chemical_angel: No. It's the best time. Post this in one of those IRANBLOG 2009 circle jerks.

Do you mean the Tatsuma's Official Reality threads?
Typos, uncorrected factual errors repeated for dozens of identical threads, utter bullying of dissenting opinions. Yeesh.
They even bully the Fark admins in those threads, speaking of embarrassment.

Yes. Those are the ones.

crypticsatellite: Embarrassing? How? Seems to have worked.

Embarrassing if it worked:
Because it gives credibility to the hardliners in power and helps justify their actions.

Embarrassing if it didn't work:
Because it means Bush wasted another half-billion dollars, and the Iranians are perfectly capable of starting something themselves.

chemical_angel: Yes. Those are the ones.

I was particularly amused by the apparent hive of effort going into perfecting Fark military badges for people's profiles. And the apparent importance of said project, that the official list of badge images must be posted within the proscribed order in the official introductory half-dozen posts.
Speaking of autocratic regimes of orthodoxy, the pecking order and ritual in those threads is nutty.

Procedural Texture: Embarrassing if it worked:
Because it gives credibility to the hardliners in power and helps justify their actions.

The press leak is embarrassing, yes. Is that what you meant?

So twitter was created by the CIA as an evil plot to destablize the ruling clergy?

sounds like one of those 'hulu is an alien plot' commercials.

Weaver95: So twitter was created by the CIA as an evil plot to destablize the ruling clergy?

sounds like one of those 'hulu is an alien plot' commercials.

No. Everybody knows it's Facebook that was created by the CIA. Duh.

crypticsatellite: The press leak is embarrassing, yes. Is that what you meant?

That depends, what press leak are you referring to?


Weaver95: So twitter was created by the CIA as an evil plot to destabilize the ruling clergy?

No-one's asserting that Twitter is the cause of the protests, my friend, don't be silly.

propasaurus: Weaver95: So twitter was created by the CIA as an evil plot to destablize the ruling clergy?

sounds like one of those 'hulu is an alien plot' commercials.

No. Everybody knows it's Facebook that was created by the CIA. Duh.

Yeah, everyone knows that the Reverse Vampires gave us Twitter.

/through the looking-glass

Monday, June 30, 2008

last year appears to be the time to point it out

400 mil? Pennies.

Read Ghost Wars by Steve Coll if you want to see what it really costs to run an insurgency.

Procedural Texture: chemical_angel: Yes. Those are the ones.

I was particularly amused by the apparent hive of effort going into perfecting Fark military badges for people's profiles. And the apparent importance of said project, that the official list of badge images must be posted within the proscribed order in the official introductory half-dozen posts.
Speaking of autocratic regimes of orthodoxy, the pecking order and ritual in those threads is nutty.

Self important douchebags ... I believe that might be the phrase? heh.

Procedural Texture: chemical_angel: Yes. Those are the ones.

I was particularly amused by the apparent hive of effort going into perfecting Fark military badges for people's profiles. And the apparent importance of said project, that the official list of badge images must be posted within the proscribed order in the official introductory half-dozen posts.
Speaking of autocratic regimes of orthodoxy, the pecking order and ritual in those threads is nutty.

Sounds like there needs to be a revolution to Free Fark from...those who don't run it. I'd get involved but seems Drew and the mods made their beds.

ToxicMunkee: Sounds like there needs to be a revolution to Free Fark from...those who don't run it. I'd get involved but seems Drew and the mods made their beds.

It definitely marks one of the low points in Fark's history.
Doubly so since those threads are so self-congratulatory and self-deluded. They think they're not merely making Fark history and internet history, but actual history.

Procedural Texture: ToxicMunkee: Sounds like there needs to be a revolution to Free Fark from...those who don't run it. I'd get involved but seems Drew and the mods made their beds.

It definitely marks one of the low points in Fark's history.
Doubly so since those threads are so self-congratulatory and self-deluded. They think they're not merely making Fark history and internet history, but actual history.

Yeah, I progressively lost interest by about part 8 when I became thoroughly disillusioned when people started posting lists of people to ignore. Very barbaric. As the good Nietzsche said, "Be wary when fighting monsters, lest you become a monster. And if you stare too much into the abyss, the abyss stares back into you."

Most of the folks on those threads are no doubt decent and well-meaning, but zeal from any angle can become overbearing and autocratic. Once a person finds that their position as a purveyor of news is more important than the news itself, the original goal of informing is lost in the struggle to stay 'relevant.' Then again, those who troll those threads poison the waters for others trying to present relevant and credible criticism.

Thank God. I've been avoiding those like the plague. It's hands down the most belligerent, self-important pretentious bullshiat I've ever seen on this site. I don't understand the inability to show support or appreciation without jerking off all over the place. My condolences to anyone who innocently wanders into one and actually tries to make a point that doesn't fit the predisposed mold. It's like the rape scene from I Spit on your Grave.

Those threads are very informative and who knows, they might be helping in some way. I don't even post in them, I just skim for information and I think some of you are being a bit unfair. The main source of information, Tatsuma, doesn't do any of the things some of you are describing, so keep that in mind. Either way, there is a lot less AWing and self importance than your average TFD thread...

BigSnatch: here is a lot less AWing and self importance than your average TFD thread...

I thought that was the primary purpose of TFD.

Doctor Funkenstein: Thank God. I've been avoiding those like the plague. It's hands down the most belligerent, self-important pretentious bullshiat I've ever seen on this site. I don't understand the inability to show support or appreciation without jerking off all over the place. My condolences to anyone who innocently wanders into one and actually tries to make a point that doesn't fit the predisposed mold. It's like the rape scene from I Spit on your Grave.

Welcome to my "favorites" list. Well said.

Part of the reaction from threads isn't so much the belligerent unwillingness to listen but the fact that folks with ideas counter to their perceptions phrase them in a deliberately demeaning way to the rest of the folks. It is easier and flashier to write in an angry and hyperbolic style than to be civil in one's criticism.

It's much easier to see someone acting like an ass and just call it there than it is to get over the jerk part and read enough and think enough to say, "You're right, but you're an asshole."

At least in the relatively early parts, before I lost interest, I would disagree with a lot of folks, and I did not get labeled a troll or whatever simply because I was tactful with those I disagreed with. Even if someone has a relevant criticism, it is undermined when they follow it up with the "but you sheeple won't listen to me because waaaah."

The other thing is just that some folks come across as dour and sour grapes with respect to how they address others in there clinging to every little message or snippet that goes by. I would just advise to them, and their critics to just take a frikin' chill pill. Odds are each little thing isn't that important, but whose place is it to speak down to those who're enjoying themselves by it? The house rule should just be, "don't be a dick." There would probably more substantive (and civil) discourse as a result. On the other hand, this is Fark, what does a person really expect?

A fine example is the post by the good Dr. Funk. He may have a point that the zeal to the point of excess backslapping is somewhat unnecessary and overdone, but it is undermined by language that communicates little more than, "i'm right, you're wrong" that in turn triggers an automatic defense mechanism to folks who might otherwise admit they were going overboard if it was pointed out in a less insulting manner. However, they go the exact opposite way when it comes across that their very characters are being impugned upon.

006andahalf: BigSnatch: here is a lot less AWing and self importance than your average TFD thread...

I thought that was the primary purpose of TFD.


I know, but the Iran threads are just as easy avoid as TFD, so complaining about them only boggles the mind. I guess I just don't understand the appeal of putting down the posters in those threads. Even though it can be silly at times, those threads are awesome for new information.

BigSnatch: I just don't understand the appeal of putting down the posters in those threads.

Yeah, I don't really get it too. Its one thing to remark on people going overboard in a civil manner, but most folks prefer being as inflammatory as possible and then complaining elsewhere, "Those toads won't tolerate any dissenting view" when it isn't the view presented that is so obnoxious, but the presenter. And I've now posted too many times into this thread.

/not like we were discussing the actual article anyway

006andahalf: Part of the reaction from threads isn't so much the belligerent unwillingness to listen but the fact that folks with ideas counter to their perceptions phrase them in a deliberately demeaning way to the rest of the folks. It is easier and flashier to write in an angry and hyperbolic style than to be civil in one's criticism.

It's much easier to see someone acting like an ass and just call it there than it is to get over the jerk part and read enough and think enough to say, "You're right, but you're an asshole."

At least in the relatively early parts, before I lost interest, I would disagree with a lot of folks, and I did not get labeled a troll or whatever simply because I was tactful with those I disagreed with. Even if someone has a relevant criticism, it is undermined when they follow it up with the "but you sheeple won't listen to me because waaaah."

The other thing is just that some folks come across as dour and sour grapes with respect to how they address others in there clinging to every little message or snippet that goes by. I would just advise to them, and their critics to just take a frikin' chill pill. Odds are each little thing isn't that important, but whose place is it to speak down to those who're enjoying themselves by it? The house rule should just be, "don't be a dick." There would probably more substantive (and civil) discourse as a result. On the other hand, this is Fark, what does a person really expect?

A fine example is the post by the good Dr. Funk. He may have a point that the zeal to the point of excess backslapping is somewhat unnecessary and overdone, but it is undermined by language that communicates little more than, "i'm right, you're wrong" that in turn triggers an automatic defense mechanism to folks who might otherwise admit they were going overboard if it was pointed out in a less insulting manner. However, they go the exact opposite way when it comes across that their very characters are being impugned upon.


This right here is the perfect way to put on criticism. You didn't name call and you kept the tone civil. As someone on the sidelines I can appreciate your criticism a lot more than if you started typing like a misinformed poster on YouTube.

I think the Iran threads have been useful (in that they fulfill Fark's ultimate purpose of aggregating news) and interesting.

/shrug

Wow is this an angry thread.

wyltoknow: I think the Iran threads have been useful (in that they fulfill Fark's ultimate purpose of aggregating news) and interesting.

/shrug

That's what I've been using them for. I don't particularly have commentary to add, but I like to know what's going on.

BigSnatch: I guess I just don't understand the appeal of putting down the posters in those threads.

I was probably overgeneralizing in my last post. I certainly don't mean to demean everyone there and I'm certainly not going to call out a fellow farker. In fact, it's a fascinating thing to watch develop. You have to admit, though, a lot of it is the perfect example of a mob mentality. Being proud and supportive is one thing and there's a lot of that there and it's admirable. Being obnoxious and abusive is something entirely different, and there's a lot of that there, too.

This thread has the potential to get a bit flamey. Anyhow, I wasn't trying to dump on anyone and my original comment was probably a little harsher than it should have been. So, for that, I apologize.

wyltoknow: I think the Iran threads have been useful (in that they fulfill Fark's ultimate purpose of aggregating news) and interesting.

I think it's funny to see the 180 in the average Farker's stance toward Iran since it became trendy to support Iran.

You look at Iran threads from the beginning of the year and earlier, and Iran was viewed as a nation full of animals that should be turned into a glass parking lot.

Now, everyone and their grandmother in here loves Iran.

I don't doubt that there are some people who are truly supportive of Iran right now, but I think there are more than a few who are just following the trend.

SchlingFocker: wyltoknow: I think the Iran threads have been useful (in that they fulfill Fark's ultimate purpose of aggregating news) and interesting.

I think it's funny to see the 180 in the average Farker's stance toward Iran since it became trendy to support Iran.

You look at Iran threads from the beginning of the year and earlier, and Iran was viewed as a nation full of animals that should be turned into a glass parking lot.

Now, everyone and their grandmother in here loves Iran.

I don't doubt that there are some people who are truly supportive of Iran right now, but I think there are more than a few who are just following the trend.

some of us have never held any ill will for the people of iran, just their government. and now that the people are taking a stand against their government, we're more than happy to offer support - even if it's just moral support and attention to their cause

/not supportive 'iran'
//supportive of the iranians

Oh yeah, greenlight!
This'll be fun.

SchlingFocker: wyltoknow: I think the Iran threads have been useful (in that they fulfill Fark's ultimate purpose of aggregating news) and interesting.

I think it's funny to see the 180 in the average Farker's stance toward Iran since it became trendy to support Iran.

You look at Iran threads from the beginning of the year and earlier, and Iran was viewed as a nation full of animals that should be turned into a glass parking lot.

Now, everyone and their grandmother in here loves Iran.

I don't doubt that there are some people who are truly supportive of Iran right now, but I think there are more than a few who are just following the trend.

I do not think there is a problem with people realizing the humanity of a perceived enemy. If anything, that can only help us as people in the future come together peacefully.

wyltoknow: I think the Iran threads have been useful (in that they fulfill Fark's ultimate purpose of aggregating news) and interesting.

/shrug

They're interesting but only when there's something new and not when douchetwat tries to create posting guidelines that defeat the purpose of sharing information and only suggest that some folks post in a particular order.

yes the badges were stupid but all internet badges are stupid.

BigSnatch: 006andahalf: BigSnatch: here is a lot less AWing and self importance than your average TFD thread...

I thought that was the primary purpose of TFD.


I know, but the Iran threads are just as easy avoid as TFD, so complaining about them only boggles the mind. I guess I just don't understand the appeal of putting down the posters in those threads. Even though it can be silly at times, those threads are awesome for new information.

they're posting the complaints in here and not in those threads where it should be done. If you don't like it then mention that and if you allow yourself to be shouted down by a bunch of badge wearing pussies then you deserve what you get.

Megain: Monday, June 30, 2008

last year appears to be the time to point it out

looks like they could have waited a year and let the election take care of it for a whole lot less.

cicdle: I do not think there is a problem with people realizing the humanity of a perceived enemy.

I don't either.

But, I think that a lot of the "sentiment" expressed in those threads is fake and nothing more than a lot of people just bandwagon jumping.

I'd just like to take a moment to point out that I've disagreed with the Official View Of Reality (if that's what we're calling it) lots of times in those threads. I've asked for clarification, disagreed outright, and questioned sources. No one's ever said an unkind word.

If you just follow common sense rules for not setting off people's Trolldars, you'll be fine.

1) Don't troll.
2) Ask questions, rather than make broad statements. If someone's saying something you disagree with, try to figure out WHY they think that.
3) Don't immediately assume someone's a retard. If you think they're a retard, don't point it out, it won't make them smarter.
4) If something's unconfirmed, help out. Try to seek confirmation on your own and help the flow of information.
5) Come back later if the bullshiat (and there's a lot of it) gets to be too much. Watch a movie. Go for a walk. Call a relative.

rava: Megain: Monday, June 30, 2008

last year appears to be the time to point it out

looks like they could have waited a year and let the election take care of it for a whole lot less.

This!

GAT_00: Wow is this an angry thread.

wyltoknow: I think the Iran threads have been useful (in that they fulfill Fark's ultimate purpose of aggregating news) and interesting.

/shrug

That's what I've been using them for. I don't particularly have commentary to add, but I like to know what's going on.

Same here. However, as I was following from threads XXX thru XXXV, I began to realize that they really were starting to get a little too self-important, and have bailed out of them. The compilation of an official set of guidelines for posting in those threads was just too pretentious for me.

Way too many posts in the Iran threads for me to try to follow. I read Tatsuma's summaries in some of them. I haven't felt really involved because there is nothing public Americans can do to help, these last 30 years. Aside from harmless pro forma platitudes, political pressure is likely to backfire.

I do hope that these covert ops help bring to power the Iranian "moderates" we've been hearing about these last 29.99 years.

Is now an embarrassing time to point out all the money we spent to destabilize Iran?

No, but it might be a good time for Sy Hersh to reacquaint himself with the common journalistic practice of quoting people who'll go on the record once in a while.

Procedural Texture: chemical_angel: Yes. Those are the ones.

I was particularly amused by the apparent hive of effort going into perfecting Fark military badges for people's profiles. And the apparent importance of said project, that the official list of badge images must be posted within the proscribed order in the official introductory half-dozen posts.
Speaking of autocratic regimes of orthodoxy, the pecking order and ritual in those threads is nutty.

Are you sure you are not talking about a '24' discussion thread?

BigSnatch: Those threads are very informative and who knows, they might be helping in some way. I don't even post in them, I just skim for information and I think some of you are being a bit unfair. The main source of information, Tatsuma, doesn't do any of the things some of you are describing, so keep that in mind. Either way, there is a lot less AWing and self importance than your average TFD thread...

That's the funny thing: Tats has pretty much almost erased all ill-will people had towards him over the years on Fark with his presence in those threads. Granted, we actually haven't had THAT specific thread topic that caused said ill-will on him in the first place appear as a green lately, so it would be interesting to see how long his popularity lasts.

Sonny Corleone: The compilation of an official set of guidelines for posting in those threads was just too pretentious for me.

Wait, people are actually doing that now? I've just been popping in to read Tats' commentary for quick updates, and then looking for Twitter posts. That's just idiotic.

http://www.iran.org/about.htm

Joshua Muravchik (founding member)


Dr. Muravchik has been a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute since 1987. Prior to that, he was a Fellow in Residence at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, and Executive Director of the Coalition for a Democratic Majority. AEI Press published his 1991 study, Exporting Democracy, and The Imperative of American Leadership, in April 1996. His latest work, Heaven on Earth: The Rise and Fall of Socialism, was published by Encounter Books in 2002.

Dr. Muravchik? Founding member? Wonder what his views are?

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-muravchik19nov19,0,5419188 . story?coll=la-home-commentary

Bomb Iran
Diplomacy is doing nothing to stop the Iranian nuclear threat; a show of force is the only answer.
By Joshua Muravchik, JOSHUA MURAVCHIK is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
November 19, 2006

Oh. These protests are the beginning of a US invasion of Iran. We have the right-wing on board, now we need to prepare a humanitarian reason to invade, just like Iraq.

Doctor Funkenstein: Thank God. I've been avoiding those like the plague. It's hands down the most belligerent, self-important pretentious bullshiat I've ever seen on this site. I don't understand the inability to show support or appreciation without jerking off all over the place. My condolences to anyone who innocently wanders into one and actually tries to make a point that doesn't fit the predisposed mold. It's like the rape scene from I Spit on your Grave.

Glad it's not just me.

/Well, me and my alts.

GAT_00: Sonny Corleone: The compilation of an official set of guidelines for posting in those threads was just too pretentious for me.

Wait, people are actually doing that now? I've just been popping in to read Tats' commentary for quick updates, and then looking for Twitter posts. That's just idiotic.

They're saving the world and don't want anything messin' it up.

Gullible naive little kids do that.

What on Earth could those guys still be talking about in those threads? I didn't think the election garnered this much attention.

GAT_00: Sonny Corleone: The compilation of an official set of guidelines for posting in those threads was just too pretentious for me.

Wait, people are actually doing that now? I've just been popping in to read Tats' commentary for quick updates, and then looking for Twitter posts. That's just idiotic.

Me too. Really. I can understand how a week-long trend that spans 30-someodd threads can take a life of its own. But for god's sake, you can get discussion of this anywhere--including /b/! Get over yourselves.

GAT_00: Sonny Corleone: The compilation of an official set of guidelines for posting in those threads was just too pretentious for me.

Wait, people are actually doing that now? I've just been popping in to read Tats' commentary for quick updates, and then looking for Twitter posts. That's just idiotic.

Yes, they're usually posted by demonfaerie (the author of said guidelines) toward the top of the thread.