So now they've become the American Secret Society of Handling All Telephone Sounds?

They've been doing this shiat for years. Next?

So.... are they aiming for no music in public at all? Because wouldn't that mean that any music playing over the sound system in the Gap constitutes a public performance of that artist?

Di Atribe: So.... are they aiming for no music in public at all? Because wouldn't that mean that any music playing over the sound system in the Gap constitutes a public performance of that artist?

It does, and Gap has to pay to do that. It's why most stores won't let employees play their own CDs, even if they have no profanity or other obscenities on them.

Companies like Muzak rent you special hardware and pay the performance costs for you.

Nightclubs have to pay a performance license fee to have DJs perform there - otherwise, the DJs would have to catalog all the tracks they play and how many times and pay for the public performance each time.

They own the vibration in my phone?

/always set the phone on vibrate
//if I miss a call because I don't hear it... less intrusion!

40yoVirgin: They own the vibration in my phone?

/always set the phone on vibrate
//if I miss a call because I don't hear it... less intrusion!

They do now. I just wrote a song, and all it is is the sounds of different phones vibrating, one after another. Each time your phone vibrates, you're publicly performing part of my track. I'd like my royalty check ASAP, please.

A guy's gotta eat.

I just like the acronym they chose. Ascap? Ass cap? Seriously?

Winktologist: Di Atribe: So.... are they aiming for no music in public at all? Because wouldn't that mean that any music playing over the sound system in the Gap constitutes a public performance of that artist?

It does, and Gap has to pay to do that. It's why most stores won't let employees play their own CDs, even if they have no profanity or other obscenities on them.

Companies like Muzak rent you special hardware and pay the performance costs for you.

Nightclubs have to pay a performance license fee to have DJs perform there - otherwise, the DJs would have to catalog all the tracks they play and how many times and pay for the public performance each time.

I had no idea. Thanks for the info.

So what if I sing a song at karaoke? Did the karaoke CD company already pay those fees? Did the karaoke DJ company pay those fees?

Di Atribe: I had no idea. Thanks for the info.

So what if I sing a song at karaoke? Did the karaoke CD company already pay those fees? Did the karaoke DJ company pay those fees?

Public performance Karaoke companies might have to pay sometimes, but often this is covered under the bar/club's performance license.

Home use Karaoke is considered private use and the only fees charged are royalties for selling modified or re-performed works. If you hold a Karaoke party in an event hall without a license, you can be sued. Lame.

Winktologist: Home use Karaoke is considered private use and the only fees charged are royalties for selling modified or re-performed works. If you hold a Karaoke party in an event hall without a license, you can be sued. Lame.

I should make this clearer: The Karaoke company pays the fee (charged to them for distribution of the works) and includes this in your cost when purchasing the media (CD/Singstar/Rock Band/LaserDisc?)

I thought the whole idea of paying for ringtones was covering that fee. Why else would some companies charge you $3 for 30 seconds of a song?

BKITU: American Secret Society of Handling All Telephone Sounds

I see what you did there.

I was walking down the street whistling one day and ASCAP goons tackled me, took all the money in my wallet and warned me about ever whistling copyrighted songs again. Said they'd break my lips.

oldebayer: I was walking down the street whistling one day and ASCAP goons tackled me, took all the money in my wallet and warned me about ever whistling copyrighted songs again. Said they'd break my lips.

I was just sitting around quietly, not doing much of anything. Four armed goons came in, pinned me to the wall, and started beating me up "for performing John Cage's '4:33.'"

Nice, GreenAdder.

What about when kids perform songs during their schools' cabarets?

On a related note, our town's Middle School couldn't televise (local station) this year's musical because they would have had to pay additional royalties. I was disappointed -- I actually get a kick out of watching stuff like this on the local access channel.

It turns out we owe them money just for talking about it.

GreenAdder: I thought the whole idea of paying for ringtones was covering that fee. Why else would some companies charge you $3 for 30 seconds of a song?

Buying a song and being to play it publically *for direct or indirect financial gain* are different.

They're forgetting about the part in the asterisks with this stupid suit. According to this playing the CD or MP3 you just bought loud enough for anybody to hear it is illegal too. Even headphones wouldn't be safe, many people turn them up loud enough for others to hear.

pnjunction:
Even headphones wouldn't be safe, many people turn them up loud enough for others to hear.

Why didn't you say earlier there was a postive element?

pnjunction: GreenAdder: I thought the whole idea of paying for ringtones was covering that fee. Why else would some companies charge you $3 for 30 seconds of a song?

Buying a song and being to play it publically *for direct or indirect financial gain* are different.

They're forgetting about the part in the asterisks with this stupid suit. According to this playing the CD or MP3 you just bought loud enough for anybody to hear it is illegal too. Even headphones wouldn't be safe, many people turn them up loud enough for others to hear.

WHAT?

ASCAP?

People that use ringtones should be arrested. Turn on a ring or put it on vibrate. I don't want to hear the Black Eyed Peas right now while you take your time answering it. Thanks.

boom boom pow

So, should I just send Mike Lange a check every time my phone rings now?

So does this mean if my phone goes off in public and I've got a Deep Purple ringtone, I should collect fees from everyone around to cover ASHAT fees?

Remember folks, these are the same anus painters who sued a restaurant because the dishwasher was listening to a radio back at the sink and it could almost be heard out front. They maintained that it constituted a public performance.

First of all, a disclaimer: I'm a member of ASCAP.

Now, the point of my post: If they can consider a ringtone a public performance, then we should be able to consider it advertising space, and thus charge them for promoting their record in our own private venue (our pocket or purse or wherever we carry our phone).

That goes for T-shirts with names on them, too. If I wear a shirt that says, for example, "OLD NAVY" on the front, then I think Old Navy should pay me for the advertising space when I wear it in public.

This is why I don't have any designer clothes. I'm not advertising for any company and then PAYING THEM to do so. That's stupid, unless I truly support the thing I'm advertising.

I always thought of preppy, trendy types as the ultimate in cheap walking billboards.

I love watching the slow death of the music "industry"...

I'm sure that ASCAP cab provide detailed records of all of the royalty money that they have collected and all of the royalty money that they have distributed to the artists... Right?

Yeah ASCAP, good luck suing the big cell companies who make boatloads of cash off people LEGALLY purchasing ringtones.

I worked the door at a strip club back in my late teens and early twenties. I also answered the phone. I took a call from ASCAP and they asked me a bunch of questions pertaining to the DJ and the music played for the sets. I had no idea about any of that but since I got paid from the till every night and the ladies paid the DJ from their tips, I'm assuming the owners weren't paying ASCAP fees or if they were even obligated to.

I was looking into copyrights, and apparently when you apply for one you MUST publish your work as well...That's where these guys come in. I refuse to join them after reading about crap like this and worse. Any farkers wanna help a brotha out and tell me how to publish without using dickheads like these?

doshus: I was looking into copyrights, and apparently when you apply for one you MUST publish your work as well...That's where these guys come in. I refuse to join them after reading about crap like this and worse. Any farkers wanna help a brotha out and tell me how to publish without using dickheads like these?

Make an mp3, put it online, add a tip jar. Congrats. You have published.

doshus: I was looking into copyrights, and apparently when you apply for one you MUST publish your work as well...That's where these guys come in. I refuse to join them after reading about crap like this and worse. Any farkers wanna help a brotha out and tell me how to publish without using dickheads like these?

You can publish. One interesting thing is in joining ascap as a musician, it is pretty darned low cost. The kicker is you have to have a published musical work out there (I had a CD selling 6 years strong). So year, you can publish indie without joining ascap or bmi.

*reads article*

*pause*

Am I on Candid Camera?

barneyfifesbullet: ASCAP?

People that use ringtones should be arrested. Turn on a ring or put it on vibrate. I don't want to hear the Black Eyed Peas right now while you take your time answering it. Thanks.

boom boom pow

Or the horn from the General Lee. Or the latest POS hiphop song. Or some lameass guitar riff. Or anything but a farking telephone ringing.

Winktologist: Winktologist: Home use Karaoke is considered private use and the only fees charged are royalties for selling modified or re-performed works. If you hold a Karaoke party in an event hall without a license, you can be sued. Lame.

I should make this clearer: The Karaoke company pays the fee (charged to them for distribution of the works) and includes this in your cost when purchasing the media (CD/Singstar/Rock Band/LaserDisc?)

Purchasing the media includes no such license, it is no different than buying and playing an audio CD. Some Karaoke companies may pay the fees as part of their agreement with the establishment, but most don't. Either way, it is the establishment's responsibility, and if they have a compliant jukebox already, they can probably add the reporting onto that.

Latest phone I've got, I can upload and manage my own ringtones. Researched and got that model for that specific reason.


On-site licensing has killed many a decent law-abiding bar who hosted a cover band..
but there's often a spy in the midst, taking notes and contacting the ass-caps in charge for a finders fee.

And this is also why you go into a retail store and the rights-managed muzak is playing the same old same old.

Probably bought a bulk perpetual license on a hundred songs and figure you aren't in the store long enough to notice.

I work retail equipment refurbishment, and asked one store employee after one particularly annoying Phil Collins ballad.
The muzak was like background noise to him.

I really want to figure out the muzak upload protocol (it's a cached player in the back room, not live) and put the expected songs, then some unexpected things, then back to the regular program. Fark with everybody but good.*

*ass-cap violation, of course.

kayoteq: Latest phone I've got, I can upload and manage my own ringtones. Researched and got that model for that specific reason.


On-site licensing has killed many a decent law-abiding bar who hosted a cover band..
but there's often a spy in the midst, taking notes and contacting the ass-caps in charge for a finders fee.

And this is also why you go into a retail store and the rights-managed muzak is playing the same old same old.

Probably bought a bulk perpetual license on a hundred songs and figure you aren't in the store long enough to notice.

I work retail equipment refurbishment, and asked one store employee after one particularly annoying Phil Collins ballad.
The muzak was like background noise to him.

I really want to figure out the muzak upload protocol (it's a cached player in the back room, not live) and put the expected songs, then some unexpected things, then back to the regular program. Fark with everybody but good.*

*ass-cap violation, of course.

DO IT!

blackheart666: I'm sure that ASCAP cab provide detailed records of all of the royalty money that they have collected and all of the royalty money that they have distributed to the artists... Right?

Of course they do.

DOesn't sound like you're a member of a performance rights society. If you were you'd know that every penny is catalogued. Copyright act gives you the ability to inspect their books if you want.

Fabric_Man: BANANAPHONE!

damn you!!! you beat me to it.
/shakes tiny fist

My local 7-11 plays the radio over the store speakers. The same station also broadcasts local sports games. I think I'm in for a huge finders-fee, between ASCAP, MLB, NFL, and whoever else. That'll teach those bastards to steal professionally produced material.

I have a modest proposal: let's all follow the letter of the law as required by ASCAP.

Here's what to do: all you cellphone users with musical ringtones should mail a modest, pay-what-you-can royalty payment to ASCAP's head offices each time your phone rings in a public place. A few pennies taped to the inside of a card with a note saying, "My cellphone rang while I was at Denny's; is this enough?" should suffice. Some of you popular kids will be buying a lot of stamps, but stick to it! ASCAP needs everything it can get to protect the rights of artists and its management will be undoubtedly cheered by the sight of thousands of envelopes arriving every day, full of the micropayments that will keep them oh-so-macro.

Second: if you have CDs or vinyl with the warning "unauthorized performance, lending or copying prohibited", send an email or postcard to ASCAP's head offices politely asking for authorization whenever you wish to lend a CD to a buddy or put your grandma's favourite vinyl onto a new format. Even if the publishing on those CDs or LPs isn't administered by ASCAP, ask anyway. ASCAP doesn't seem to have issues with legal precedent or logic when seeking royalties so undoubtedly, they will be grateful that you are working to vigorously defend any copyright and the royalties accruing thereto.

You might also wish to send a note to ASCAP over thornier legal issues like, "If my friend is listening to something on earbuds and hands me one earbud so I can listen at the same time, does that constitute public performance or unauthorized file sharing?" ASCAP takes copyright protection very seriously and should be happy to answer any and all questions about potential violations that you may have.