If you sill think the other party is worse then yours YOU are the problem. Yes you.

I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left.

FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left.

yes, exactly.

As someone smarter than me once said, America has one party, the pro-business party, with two factions, Republican and Democrat.

Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

Splendid, I've been waiting for a rationale to join the Republic Party

.

jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I insincerely hope he's kidding.

I sincerely hope that liberal purity-trolling doesn't get out of hand. It's the same thing that's ruining the Republicans right now, and it'd be a shame if Democrats don't learn from the lesson that's being taught right now.

The simple truth is that the US is not a particularly liberal country, and progressives need to play their hand carefully if they want to move in the right direction even a little bit. Any sort of all-or-nothing thinking is going to simply result in frustration. Nader is a good example.

Marcus Aurelius: As someone smarter than me once said, America has one party, the pro-business party, with two factions, Republican and Democrat.

No, we still have two parties. The problem is that one party is all balls, no brains and the other party is the exact opposite.

peachpicker: jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I insincerely hope he's kidding.

I kiddingly hope he's sincere.

Nabb1: peachpicker: jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I insincerely hope he's kidding.

I kiddingly hope he's sincere.

I sincerely hope he's sincere.

jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I'm actually afraid of that guy.

FTFA: If our hopes for Progressive solutions policies we in the base want are dashed it will be for the very simple reason that the Democratic Pparty that purports to represent our interests - the one we all worked so hard to get in the majority so it could finally do the our will of the people - is in fact a center-right party comprised of farking politicians just as beholden to corporate interests obsessed with holding onto office at the expense of principle, logic, or even their own long-term interests as Republicans the party we worked so hard to wrest control from.

Fixed.

More and more over the next few months/years, liberals will find they like it less and less when they themselves are routinely conflated with their so-called leaders in Congress, few of whom are actually enacting policies or pursuing goals/strategies of which they approve (and yet are still better in their eyes than the opposition, if only just). And then you'll know how we on the right have felt for years of being held responsible for a bunch of hacks who can barely be bothered to pay lip service to the base because they know we won't vote for Democrats.

Eventually you'll get to the point where you start to worry that the disaffected leaners will just stay home next election because of the corruption and fecklessness. And soon thereafter, you'll be in the minority again wondering how your progressive realignment went to so horribly wrong and the cycle will start over.

MuadDib: And then you'll know how we on the right have felt for years of being held responsible for a bunch of hacks who can barely be bothered to pay lip service to the base because they know we won't vote for Democrats.

God forbid you be held responsible for being so predictable.

Hender: Nabb1: peachpicker: jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I insincerely hope he's kidding.

I kiddingly hope he's sincere.

I sincerely hope he's sincere.

I sincerely took a shiat in a pizza box once in college and hid it under a buddy's couch. He didn't find it for nearly a week. It smelled like Gary Busey died in there.

Doctor Funkenstein: I sincerely took a shiat in a pizza box once in college and hid it under a buddy's couch. He didn't find it for nearly a week. It smelled like Gary Busey died in there.

I'm certain he appreciated the sincerity of the act.

Mordant: MuadDib: And then you'll know how we on the right have felt for years of being held responsible for a bunch of hacks who can barely be bothered to pay lip service to the base because they know we won't vote for Democrats.

God forbid you be held responsible for being so predictable.

I myself actually voted for a Democrat for Attorney General last November. Have you ever voted for a Republican for any office above the level of street sweeper?

MuadDib: Mordant: MuadDib: And then you'll know how we on the right have felt for years of being held responsible for a bunch of hacks who can barely be bothered to pay lip service to the base because they know we won't vote for Democrats.

God forbid you be held responsible for being so predictable.

I myself actually voted for a Democrat for Attorney General last November. Have you ever voted for a Republican for any office above the level of street sweeper?


Your heart would miss a beat if you knew how many Dems I've voted for. Your mind would permanently shut down to protect itself.

As a socialist I hate both parties because they're both way too far to the right.

Mordant: MuadDib: Mordant: MuadDib: And then you'll know how we on the right have felt for years of being held responsible for a bunch of hacks who can barely be bothered to pay lip service to the base because they know we won't vote for Democrats.

God forbid you be held responsible for being so predictable.

I myself actually voted for a Democrat for Attorney General last November. Have you ever voted for a Republican for any office above the level of street sweeper?

Your heart would miss a beat if you knew how many Dems I've voted for. Your mind would permanently shut down to protect itself.

Don't flatter yourself. The only thing that you could've said to surprise me would have been if you'd voted for a Republican even once. But I was open to the infinitessimally small possibility that maybe, just once, one of your relatives ran for dog catcher or something as a Republican.

But no, you're one of the Dems most like the Republicans you enjoy trying to pillory: Cheering for your team no matter their excesses and corruption, all the while projecting your own lack of principle or coherence onto others, thinking you're clever. It'd be amusing if it weren't so pathetic.

MuadDib: Mordant: MuadDib: Mordant: MuadDib: And then you'll know how we on the right have felt for years of being held responsible for a bunch of hacks who can barely be bothered to pay lip service to the base because they know we won't vote for Democrats.

God forbid you be held responsible for being so predictable.

I myself actually voted for a Democrat for Attorney General last November. Have you ever voted for a Republican for any office above the level of street sweeper?

Your heart would miss a beat if you knew how many Dems I've voted for. Your mind would permanently shut down to protect itself.

Don't flatter yourself. The only thing that you could've said to surprise me would have been if you'd voted for a Republican even once. But I was open to the infinitessimally small possibility that maybe, just once, one of your relatives ran for dog catcher or something as a Republican.

But no, you're one of the Dems most like the Republicans you enjoy trying to pillory: Cheering for your team no matter their excesses and corruption, all the while projecting your own lack of principle or coherence onto others, thinking you're clever. It'd be amusing if it weren't so pathetic.

Heh. Oh that's good. I couldn't have asked for a better reply from you.

Thank you for showing me that you are EXACTLY what I thought you were and not just someone I misunderstood.

I'm not even going to spend any more time on you. But thanks for making my day. Enjoy the rest of your weekend and keep being such a superior human being, the fate of mankind rests in people like you to teach us all everything we need to know about every subject.

God bless us all and thanks for gracing us with your presence.

Mordant: MuadDib: Mordant: MuadDib: Mordant: MuadDib:

Heh. Oh that's good. I couldn't have asked for a better reply from you.

Thank you for showing me that you are EXACTLY what I thought you were and not just someone I misunderstood.

Finally we agree on something. Because this is precisely what I was about to say to you. Have a nice life.

Actually, now I feel bad. I guess I pulled one of those "you don't know me" routines that I hate because you couldn't possibly know me and never will. We haven't met and won't ever meet because I'd rather peel off my own skin than be in a room with you.

So I won't fault you at all for the impression you have because it's exactly what seems most obvious from your perspective, no matter how funny it really is to me. For that I apologize.

Likewise, I don't know the real you either, but if what we see here is the real thing then I'm happy not knowing any more.

Mordant: Actually, now I feel bad. I guess I pulled one of those "you don't know me" routines that I hate because you couldn't possibly know me and never will. We haven't met and won't ever meet because I'd rather peel off my own skin than be in a room with you.

So I won't fault you at all for the impression you have because it's exactly what seems most obvious from your perspective, no matter how funny it really is to me. For that I apologize.

Likewise, I don't know the real you either, but if what we see here is the real thing then I'm happy not knowing any more.

Damn. Now you have surprised me and I feel bad, too. Clearly plaintext is a bad way to get proper impressions of people. When you said 'go on being a superior being who knows everything,' I knew that what I thought I was putting out there wasn't what others were seeing. Because that is most certainly not how I see myself.

Likewise, you nailed it on how we see one another; what you're seeing of me is obviously what makes the most sense from where you are even. I am entirely open to the possibility that we're both more compelx than the other sees and, if we had better knowledge of one another than these snippets in the midst of political arguments, we'd probably get along fine.

Wipe the slate clean and call a truce?

Well this is quite the slap fight.

MuadDib: Mordant: Actually, now I feel bad. I guess I pulled one of those "you don't know me" routines that I hate because you couldn't possibly know me and never will. We haven't met and won't ever meet because I'd rather peel off my own skin than be in a room with you.

So I won't fault you at all for the impression you have because it's exactly what seems most obvious from your perspective, no matter how funny it really is to me. For that I apologize.

Likewise, I don't know the real you either, but if what we see here is the real thing then I'm happy not knowing any more.

Damn. Now you have surprised me and I feel bad, too. Clearly plaintext is a bad way to get proper impressions of people. When you said 'go on being a superior being who knows everything,' I knew that what I thought I was putting out there wasn't what others were seeing. Because that is most certainly not how I see myself.

Likewise, you nailed it on how we see one another; what you're seeing of me is obviously what makes the most sense from where you are even. I am entirely open to the possibility that we're both more compelx than the other sees and, if we had better knowledge of one another than these snippets in the midst of political arguments, we'd probably get along fine.

Wipe the slate clean and call a truce?

works for me, I doubt it'll go any further because this place is too contentious for any long term agreements. Hell, I even get along with DIA now and if that works then you probably deserve the same consideration.

Mordant: MuadDib: Mordant:

Wipe the slate clean and call a truce?

works for me, I doubt it'll go any further because this place is too contentious for any long term agreements. Hell, I even get along with DIA now and if that works then you probably deserve the same consideration.

Lovely. For my part, the slate is clean.



To return to TFA, what I meant to say is that this is part of what it means to be in the majority. You don't get everything you want because there are no perfect representatives of your views except you. I've had plenty of arguments with my supposed allies that the perfect should not be the enemy of the good, that a baby step in the direction is better than inertia. When you're in the minority, you don't have those kinds of fights nearly as often; majorities are messier.

But, just like this Kossack diarist, the diehards want it all and they want it Right Farking Now. And the politicians know you will still vote for them because, even if they sell you out on this or that, on the whole they're still better in your eyes than the alternative. So you'll hold your nose and vote for them.

But holding a majority means holding the leaners who will bolt or stay home. That often means compromise (which the base hates) and it always means avoiding corruption (which, if they could do, they wouldn't be willing to do what one must do to get into Congress). So the seeds of the next swing of the pendulum are already sown.

FlyingLizardOfDoom: The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left.

I guess Vlad The Impaler, Attila the Hun and Idi Amin will be competing for your vote then. Good luck with that.

I think that's the best "New Rules" I've ever seen. Maher is spot on. The thing is, a lot of the issues that politicians from both parties refuse to touch, such as single-payer, same-sex marriage, and legalization of marijuana are starting to become issues a majority of Americans support. If the right public figures were out supporting them, they would garner even more public support. It's disgusting.

I still think that we should do what the Iranians are doing. SHOW Washington what we think. There should be a massive health care-related march on Washington.

I watched Maher make this case last night. And on this issue he's right. The only unapologetically progressive party in the U.S., the Greens, are marginal at best. Maybe this will encourage them to get their act together and dump wackos like Cynthia McKinney. And you hardly ever see genuinely articulate progressive voices in the media. Apart from the occasional Katrina van Heuval aside, most of what passes for progressive commentary comes from Hollywood airheads. Has Matthew Rothschild ever had CNN airtime for commentary or analysis?

Hender: Nabb1: peachpicker: jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I insincerely hope he's kidding.

I kiddingly hope he's sincere.

I sincerely hope he's sincere.

Surely you can't be serious.

FuturePastNow: Hender: Nabb1: peachpicker: jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I insincerely hope he's kidding.

I kiddingly hope he's sincere.

I sincerely hope he's sincere.

Surely you can't be serious.

I seriously hope you're Shirley.

MuadDib
Eventually you'll get to the point where you start to worry that the disaffected leaners will just stay home next election because of the corruption and fecklessness. And soon thereafter, you'll be in the minority again wondering how your progressive realignment went to so horribly wrong and the cycle will start over.

When proto-Progressives got over the Bill Clinton honeymoon, they didn't stay home; they organized outside the government, creating the "Movement of Movements" of environmental, labor, gender, foreign policy, &etc issue-organizations who came together and were just about to realize that
-all these problems are the same fundamental problem, Capitalism and its tool the State, and
-we can win
So in 1999 the WTO in Seattle was shut down by a coalition of tens of thousands of people from practically as many movements (after a fark-ton of organizing of course). The next year the mood at (or rather, outside) the Democratic National Convention was, "fark capitalism". The corporate monolith was being revealed what it was and is: Many-faced Moloch, the demon god of sacrifice for power; industrial capitalism and accumulated profit.

And then 9/11 happened.

It was almost certainly just a coincidence. But goddamn. Talk about bad timing. If al Qaeda had just waited another couple years whatever they were biatching about wouldn't have been a problem any more.

So, here we are again, in 1993. President Charismatic Moderate Democrat has ascended to make the country safe for capitalism again. Are we going to learn from our mistakes? Was the Movement of Movements a historical one-time event and is trying to reclaim our shattered momentum a Quixotic dream? Will President CMD fool us, or is it just a matter of time before people remember that the president is just a figurehead? These questions - and many others - will be answered in the next episode of Soap.

Somacandra: I guess Vlad The Impaler, Attila the Hun and Idi Amin will be competing for your vote then

Jonah Goldberg says those guys are all liberal left wingers.

Of course, if Maher wants to do more than biatch about it, he could invite serious voices from (what passes for) the American left on his own show for commentary. Has he ever had Matthew Rothschild on? And is it true he was banned from appearing on FOX personally by Roger Ailes?

Those congressmen are there for life.

Obama gets one, maybe two terms and that's it.

They are not going to throw their big benefactors under the bus for Hopey.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Somacandra: I guess Vlad The Impaler, Attila the Hun and Idi Amin will be competing for your vote then

Jonah Goldberg says those guys are all liberal left wingers.

Crap. That means we're down to General Zod and that Big Horn Guy from Legend to represent moderate conservatives. Maybe Galactus and Apocalypse could phone in the far-right vote?

Somacandra
The only unapologetically progressive party in the U.S., the Greens, are marginal at best.

They started off young and idealistic. Look at Germany's Green Party, which gained power and then became corrupted by it. The problem isn't which party has power, it's the system where one party or another has power. But that's inevitable with any government trying to rule any decent-sized country. Maybe Lichtenstein doesn't have this problem?

and what's sadder: the fact that I spelled "Lichtenstein" right on the first try, or that the country is the second Google result for "Lichtenstein", behind some artist?


Maybe this will encourage them to get their act together and dump wackos

Right, just like the Libertarian Party. I think they've been meaning to kick out the wackos since the 80's.


And you hardly ever see genuinely articulate progressive voices in the media.

The problem is that in order to make a correct statement, you have to make a complete statement. That's why Noam Chomsky seems to repeat himself so much. He's not; he's just establishing exactly what he's saying so there's no confusion. When was the last time Chomsky was on cable news? 2002?

He's written like 80 books since then and they act like he doesn't exist; partially it's because they don't understand his emphasis on 'correctness' and 'ethics', and the way he points out all the facts that screw up their little mythologies; but I'm sure it's probably more due to the fact that he couldn't stand being around screaming idiots pushing agendas.

moral of the story: If you want news, turn off your farking TV. Sell it to some sucker on Craigslist, you need the money and you don't need to watch that crap. Also, if you see the letters "AP" or "Reuters" at the beginning of a newspaper article, you can be reasonably certain that everything that is not a specific date or a person's name is either an outright lie or so twisted as to have the same effect.

Mordant and Somacandra: FuturePastNow: Hender: Nabb1: peachpicker: jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I insincerely hope he's kidding.

I kiddingly hope he's sincere.

I sincerely hope he's sincere.

Surely you can't be serious.

I seriously hope you're Shirley.

I'm always serious, and don't call me Shirley

For the better part of the last 80+ years, Democrats ran this country, with the competing factions largely existing within the party itself.

Republicans (much like now and probabaly more-so) didnt matter.

Things have only reverted to normal.

in other news, what was that i just saw between Mordant and MuaDib?

Who are you two and what have you done with my fark!

I will vote for any robot, regardless of platform, that runs for office. Not the flesh-and-blood kind... steel skin and LED eyes required.

DerangedMuppet: in other news, what was that i just saw between Mordant and MuaDib?

Who are you two and what have you done with my fark!

They went Canadian on us.

RanDomino
moral of the story: If you want news, turn off your farking TV. Sell it to some sucker on Craigslist, you need the money and you don't need to watch that crap. Also, if you see the letters "AP" or "Reuters" at the beginning of a newspaper article, you can be reasonably certain that everything that is not a specific date or a person's name is either an outright lie or so twisted as to have the same effect.

I am using a small crappy flat screen as a monitor for my PC and almost never watch broadcast or cable television, so I'm really getting a kick out of this reply.

I never encountered your information literacy heuristic with regards to AP and Reuters before, I'll start paying attention to it and see if your theory pans out.

Mentat: The problem is that one party is all balls, no brains and the other party is the exact opposite.

I wouldn't assume either party had working organs anywhere north of the spleen.

Or south of the liver.

Skinkadink: Let's hope that the Dems have enough spine to work in the interest of the American people (for once) and give us a public option that will end the for profit healthcare business forever.

You don't really know the Democratic party do you. Spine isnt something they do very well.

FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left.

Uh...what?

DerangedMuppet: Mordant and Somacandra: FuturePastNow: Hender: Nabb1: peachpicker: jake3988: Mordant 2009-06-20 10:38:35 AM FlyingLizardOfDoom: I disagree with the commentator/poster/person writing this thing. The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left. yes, exactly.
================================================

I sincerely hope you're kidding.

I insincerely hope he's kidding.

I kiddingly hope he's sincere.

I sincerely hope he's sincere.

Surely you can't be serious.

I seriously hope you're Shirley.

I'm always serious, and don't call me Shirley

I kiddingly hope he's kidding.

funmonger: DerangedMuppet: in other news, what was that i just saw between Mordant and MuaDib?

Who are you two and what have you done with my fark!

They went Canadian on us.

Now you're getting nasty.

Somacandra: FlyingLizardOfDoom: The democratic party is not center-right but far-left. The republicans are center-left.

I guess Vlad The Impaler, Attila the Hun and Idi Amin will be competing for your vote then. Good luck with that.

I've seen references like this before, and they always strike me as so blindly stupid.

Do you really think Attila the Hun would even qualify to be ranked on a right-left dichotomy? Can you name me a single policy platform held by Vlad the Impaler?

Stupid comment is stupid, as is the right-left false dichotomy, which does nothing but generalize and thereby obscure actual policies held by politicians.