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(Dayton Daily News) Strange ACLU urges removal of prohibition of schools banning mandatory recitation of Pledge of Allegiance, even on double reverse Opposite Day   (daytondailynews.com) divider line 51
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Saborlas [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 03:57:13 PM  
I plead alignment to the flakes
of the untitled snakes of a merry cow
and to the Republicans
for which they scam
one nacho
underpants
with licorice
and jugs of wine
for owls.

 
oldebayer [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:34:21 PM  
removal of prohibition of schools banning mandatory recitation

Eh?

 
Gecko Gingrich [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:51:35 PM  
oldebayer: removal of prohibition of schools banning mandatory recitation

Start from the end the work forward.

There was mandatory recitation.
Mandatory recitation was banned.
Banning mandatory recitation was prohibited, meaning mandatory recitation was back on.
The ACLU would like that prohibition lifted, meaning that recitation is once again not mandatory.

 
INTERTRON 2009-06-14 04:53:06 PM  
oldebayer: removal of prohibition of schools banning mandatory recitation

Eh?

Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge: good
Prohibition of (Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge): bad
Removal of (Prohibition of (Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge)): good

 
hillbillypharmacist [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:53:33 PM  
Students shouldn't be forced to stand up and repeat any words, period.

 
GrizzlyAdamsRox 2009-06-14 04:53:34 PM  
Gecko Gingrich: oldebayer: removal of prohibition of schools banning mandatory recitation

Start from the end the work forward.

There was mandatory recitation.
Mandatory recitation was banned.
Banning mandatory recitation was prohibited, meaning mandatory recitation was back on.
The ACLU would like that prohibition lifted, meaning that recitation is once again not mandatory.

I'm just gonna take your word on that.

 
Britney Spear's Speculum 2009-06-14 04:54:58 PM  
There are way more important breeches of the separation of church and state going on here in this country that need attention.

Trying to fix the messed up pledge should be a lower priority.

 
itazurakko [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:55:09 PM  
Gotta love the part about not being able to alter the wording - of course they want to preserve the edits from the 50's adding "under God" to the thing.

 
Tellingthem 2009-06-14 04:57:46 PM  
hillbillypharmacist: Students shouldn't be forced to stand up and repeat any words, period.

they won't be

"Under the amendment, teachers would decide if students in their classrooms will say the pledge. The amendment still would allow individual students to choose not to recite the pledge, but the proposal would prohibit anyone from altering it, such as adding or removing words."

 
Dirty Hot Linker 2009-06-14 04:58:20 PM  
itazurakko: of course they want to preserve the edits from the 50's

But that's what the republicans promise us when we vote for them. They promise to keep us back in the 50's!

 
chrismac 2009-06-14 04:59:05 PM  
...with liberty and justice for everybody except for the people who don't care for blind nationalism halfassedly reinforced by rote memorization.

 
veale728 [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:02:15 PM  
I pledge allegiance, to Queen Fragg, and her mighty state of hysteria...

 
Doctor Jan Itor 2009-06-14 05:09:40 PM  
The pledge is oppressive and fascist. Even as a kid in the 70s I hated it and never said the "under God" part, being an atheist. It's useless propaganda left over from the anti-Communist days. It's insulting to our intelligence.

 
Die Polizei 2009-06-14 05:17:23 PM  
i381.photobucket.com

Indeed

 
El Morro 2009-06-14 05:18:09 PM  
INTERTRON: oldebayer: removal of prohibition of schools banning mandatory recitation

Eh?

Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge: good
Prohibition of (Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge): bad
Removal of (Prohibition of (Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge)): good

I absolutely (agree/disagree) with this. It is without a doubt (an/a) (outrageous insult/complete vindication) (to/of) our justice system.

 
RemyDuron 2009-06-14 05:25:49 PM  
hillbillypharmacist: Students shouldn't be forced to stand up and repeat any words, period.

Sophomore and Junior English are going to be different without having to memorize and recite Antony's funeral speech and "To be or not to be."

/As usual, good on the ACLU

 
OriginalReaper 2009-06-14 05:36:25 PM  
kids don't know what it means anyway. I know this because I was a kid once and I didn't know what the hell I was saying except what I was told tosay. there should be a middle ground i think. you're forced to say it until you are desensitized to it but you have to stop saying it after you start realizing what you're saying. I think from K to 5th grade should be mandatory, and after that you can sing kumbaya or recite the rifleman's creed or what have you.

 
holiday_inn_in_cambodia 2009-06-14 05:37:55 PM  
INTERTRON: oldebayer: removal of prohibition of schools banning mandatory recitation

Eh?

Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge: good
Prohibition of (Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge): bad
Removal of (Prohibition of (Schools banning mandatory recitation of the pledge)): good

3.bp.blogspot.com
Can I go now?

 
Magorn 2009-06-14 05:39:27 PM  
If you simply MUST require kids to recite something, or pledge allegiance to something every morning, Make it the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights. That way the kids will have some understanding of what "the Republic for which {the flag} stands " actually is supposed to be about, but then of course even grade schoolers would know what an un-American Douchebag people like State Sen Gary Cates really are

 
Nuuu 2009-06-14 05:49:46 PM  
Magorn: If you simply MUST require kids to recite something, or pledge allegiance to something every morning, Make it the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights. That way the kids will have some understanding of what "the Republic for which {the flag} stands " actually is supposed to be about, but then of course even grade schoolers would know what an un-American Douchebag people like State Sen Gary Cates really are

Recitations are useless in general. Nothing goes into the kid's head. They just talk phonetically:

". . . and ford the Republic, for widget stand. One nation, under god, invisible, with liberty and just as for all."

 
jjorsett 2009-06-14 05:54:03 PM  
Double secret negation.

 
bubbaprog [recently expired TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:54:12 PM  
I will never understand why Republicans demand our schoolchildren behave like Hitler Youth.

 
Mugato [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:54:53 PM  
The reciting of the Pledge of Allegiance is a creepy, vaguely Nazi-like practice. I never understood it.

 
Gecko Gingrich [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:58:45 PM  
Magorn: If you simply MUST require kids to recite something, or pledge allegiance to something every morning, Make it the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights. That way the kids will have some understanding of what "the Republic for which {the flag} stands " actually is supposed to be about, but then of course even grade schoolers would know what an un-American Douchebag people like State Sen Gary Cates really are

I vote BoR. On the first day, it will be easy to spot the kids who belong in the AP classes. They'll be the ones that get through the First Amendment and stop reciting.

 
The Crack Kid 2009-06-14 06:08:58 PM  
As a kid who spent every single day during the first two weeks of 10th grade in detention because I refused to stand for or recite the pledge, I'm getting a big kick out of this.

/Yeah, I was an attention-whoring asshole, but I was an attention-whoring asshole who was in the right.
//Hadn't had to say it from 7th to 9th grade because it always happened that I was taking some class at a different school during the saying-the-pledge period.

 
Lawnchair 2009-06-14 06:09:43 PM  
Dirty Hot Linker: itazurakko: of course they want to preserve the edits from the 50's

But that's what the republicans promise us when we vote for them. They promise to keep us back in the 50's!

On civil rights and red-baiting, maybe. On Eisenhower's 91% top marginal tax rate? Maybe not.

/ Of course, I suspect the great majority of Republican voters think taxes today are the highest they've ever been.

 
Lost Thought 00 2009-06-14 06:11:24 PM  
I think all children should pray 3 times a day to a picture of Obama, but somehow I think other people might have a problem with that.

 
Yesdog [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 06:22:23 PM  
I never say the "under God" addendum crap when I proudly say the pledge. It just means I end a few syllables before everyone else.

 
LindyJohn 2009-06-14 06:50:47 PM  
Wow, does this thread reeks of patchouli!

Myself, I've always thought of the Pledge of Allegiance as a basic civics lesson, not a hate crime. But then again, I don't hate America.

///Do Pledge of Allegiance threads always get Godwinned that quickly? The Hitler Youth reference was made at about two dozen comments in...

 
b0rg9 2009-06-14 06:53:57 PM  
young-alumni.com

/cold

 
Mugato [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 06:57:19 PM  
The Crack Kid: /Yeah, I was an attention-whoring asshole, but I was an attention-whoring asshole who was in the right.

You could have just stood there and not said anything like everyone else and saved yourself a lot of trouble. You weren't convincing anyone of anything. It's a stupid farking tradition but it's a meaningless minute of your life that isn't worth farking up your education. But then I have an uncle who protests helmet laws so I guess some people have to stand for something, no matter how inane.

 
Ace Frehley's Ghost 2009-06-14 06:58:58 PM  
And to the republic, of Whichistan...

 
HairBolus 2009-06-14 07:00:57 PM  

I hate it when some people make up silly rituals and rules and then demand that other people follow them.

With less men and women following the dictate that any proper person always wears a hat outdoors, many people will fail this quiz.


From a quiz

During which occasions should an American render either a hand salute (when in uniform) or place their hand over their heart?
1. While reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.
2. When the National Anthem is being played.
3. Both of the above.
4. When the flag is being raised or lowered.
5. When the flag is passing by in a parade or flag ceremony
6. ALL of the above.

When reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, what is the proper procedure for those wearing a hat that is NOT part of a uniform?
1. Any person wearing a hat should remove it during the Pledge.
2. Men ONLY should remove their hat with the left hand and hold it at their side while placing their right hand over their heart.
3. Men ONLY should remove their hat with the right hand, then hold it over their heart with the right hand.
4. Men ONLY should remove their hat with the right hand, holding the hat over the left shoulder with the right hand covering the heart.
5. Any man wearing a hat should leave their hat on and render a hand salute in military fashion.

True or False:
Prior to World War II the accepted method of saluting the Flag was to extend the arm towards the flag, palm facing upward, at the point in the Pledge where the words "My Flag" were recited.

 
2chris2 2009-06-14 07:05:41 PM  
People get all bent out of shape about whether or not kids should be saying the pledge of allegiance, but the fact is that kids don't understand what the hell it means anyway. What 7 year old knows what words like "pledge" or "allegiance" mean?

Here's what kids are hearing when they say the pledge:

I blah blah to the flag of the United States of America, and to the blah for which it stands, one nation under god, blah, with blah and blah for all.

 
jake3988 2009-06-14 07:09:51 PM  
ACLU urges removal of prohibition of schools banning mandatory recitation of Pledge of Allegiance, even on double reverse Opposite Day
=======================================

Removal of prohibition of banned schools?

HUH?! That's like... a triple negative!

 
jjorsett 2009-06-14 07:43:15 PM  
2chris2: People get all bent out of shape about whether or not kids should be saying the pledge of allegiance, but the fact is that kids don't understand what the hell it means anyway. What 7 year old knows what words like "pledge" or "allegiance" mean?

Here's what kids are hearing when they say the pledge:

I blah blah to the flag of the United States of America, and to the blah for which it stands, one nation under god, blah, with blah and blah for all.

Red Skelton did a recording in which he explained each word in the pledge and what they meant when strung together. I always thought it should be played to each class every year so that the kids knew what the pledge was about.

 
Dwight_Yeast 2009-06-14 07:48:59 PM  
George Will should beat his fact-checker with a stick: Queen Victoria never said, "We are not amused."

 
Precious Herman 2009-06-14 08:04:07 PM  
I plead alignment to the flakes
of the untitled snakes of a merry cow
and to the Republicans
for which they scam
one nacho
underpants
with licorice
and jugs of wine
for owls.

Nice Life in Hell reference, Saborlas. I used to recite that during middle school, where the pledge was mandatory.

 
FishStampede [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 08:04:13 PM  
hillbillypharmacist: Students shouldn't be forced to stand up and repeat any words, period.

I should've said that when the teacher made me do Juliet in my English class.

/Made up for it as MacBeth.

 
revnron 2009-06-14 08:11:19 PM  
I thought it was interesting that the patriotic Sen. Cates hid the amendment in the state's budget bill. There's a proud American.

 
eddiesocket 2009-06-14 08:43:40 PM  
I think we should fight to save the traditional pledge.

 
Jim_Callahan 2009-06-14 09:41:11 PM  
hillbillypharmacist: Students shouldn't be forced to stand up and repeat any words, period.

Well, they should for lessons in pronunciation and recitation of classwork and shiat. But yeah, children are far too stupid to understand the meaning of these particular words properly, so it's kinda pointless.

//There are some fun bits of flag ettiquette, like when you hang a flag over a street the blue field should be to the upper left as viewed by someone looking north. I mean, not actually a big deal if someone gets it wrong, but things are standardized so that everyone's behavior with the thing can match (assumably developed in the military).

 
0Icky0 2009-06-14 10:01:10 PM  
LindyJohn: Myself, I've always thought of the Pledge of Allegiance as a basic civics lesson

Why not use the time for an actual, less basic, civics lesson?

 
oldebayer [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 10:12:25 PM  
The Crack Kid

As a kid who spent every single day during the first two weeks of 10th grade in detention because I refused to stand for or recite the pledge, I'm getting a big kick out of this.

I mentioned this in another thread a few years ago, but you might have missed it. When I was in high school, we went to school 220 days per year instead of the usual 180, so when day 540 rolled around, I figured I had hit my quota and stopped saying the pledge of allegiance. I still stood -- no attention-whore, me -- but didn't cover my heart or move my lips. This was during a certain period when we had troops somewhere in Southeast Asia, and feelings were running high, and I got into several fights because of this. I still have never said the Pledge of Allegiance again, and have no intention of being bullied or shamed into it.

Patriotism does not require the wearing of flags or the recitation of pledges.

 
OgreMagi 2009-06-14 10:42:47 PM  
I don't want the pledge to be mandatory. I do recite the pledge at events, except I don't say the "under god" part.

 
unclejimbo827 [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 11:48:53 PM  
I never stoof and recited the pledge once I hit high school. Not because I was some big rebel, but because I was lazy.

 
EdgeRunner 2009-06-15 12:22:03 AM  
Every time you recite the pledge, Rush Limbaugh orders a Dittohead to slap a hippie.

That's why I've been reciting the pledge non-stop for almost three days now. I'm hoping the Dittohead army will eventually slap the crap out of hippie-spawn Shia LaBeouf.

 
Sim Tree [TotalFark] 2009-06-15 01:38:33 AM  
itazurakko: Gotta love the part about not being able to alter the wording - of course they want to preserve the edits from the 50's adding "under God" to the thing.

Meh. I think it's there to prevent a lot of pledges like this:
img190.imageshack.us
By simtree at 2009-06-14

 
rhodges26 2009-06-15 10:54:11 AM  
Wow ACLU has no life, pledge of alliance should be done every morning to instill values into American kids not hate for this country, which is what they will do fark ACLU go jump off a cliff and do us all a favor. Once again Fark the Liberals they can join them lol.

 
Murkanen 2009-06-15 12:31:44 PM  
rhodges26: pledge of alliance should be done every morning to instill values into American kids

If you have to use brainwashing to instill your values into a person while they're too young to protest, maybe just maybe, your values aren't worth passing on.

 
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