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(Philip Wiess) Interesting Number of Americans who say U.S. should support Israel drops from 71% to 44% in one year   (philipweiss.org) divider line 159
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1323 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jun 2009 at 7:59 PM   |  Make this a Fark FavoriteFavorite    |   share: Share on OMGTWITTER WEB2.0share on StumbleUponshare on Facebook  more»   |    Get this fabulous T-Shirt and impress the methane out of your friends! shirt it!

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Sid_6.7 [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 12:16:06 PM  
Good. For years I have been disgusted with the way that they have acted and gotten away with it.

"We are taking what is yours because we think we are entitled to for some reason, and in the mean time, we are going to herd you into small living areas with sealed borders."

Where have I heard that before? Oh yeah, Warsaw beginning around 1940.

I don't dislike Judaism or the Jewish people, I just hate the policies of Israel.

 
FlashHarry [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 12:24:14 PM  
good. let's judge both the israeli and palestinian governments on their actions rather than blindly supporting either out of some guilt-oath.

 
mediablitz [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 12:41:00 PM  
Stealth Godwin'd in the Boobies.

I expect comments in this thread will not once blame Obama.

 
jonasborg [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 12:47:01 PM  
Obama is suck a prick for making this happen. Jesus.

 
GAT_00 [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 01:22:57 PM  
About damn time. Israel stopped caring about peace a while back and all they care about anymore is how much more territory they can steal.

 
40yoVirgin [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 01:32:38 PM  
jonasborg: Obama is suck a prick for making this happen. Jesus.

Don't blame Israel and their actions... that would be too obvious.

 
TeddyRooseveltsMustache [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 01:33:06 PM  
Israel is walking on the dangerous edge of full scale warfare. It is unwise for them to turn a deaf ear to the United States. Especially now. If Israel doesn't remember who their friends are, they're gonna wind up like a druggie who kicks it a day before the intervention.

 
TeddyRooseveltsMustache [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 01:33:52 PM  
Not the habit, I meant the bucket.

 
Benevolent Misanthrope [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 01:37:18 PM  
Sid_6.7: "We are taking what is yours because we think we are entitled to for some reason,

The basic reason given was, "God promised it to us." There are more details, such as the exact land that was referenced in this promise, and the obligation of the US to protect Israel out of guilt over the Holocaust, but basically the reason is based on a bronze-age nomadic tribe's myth of their imaginary friend telling them they're the bestest people EVER.

Since then, of course, Israel has decided that it wasn't enough having the choicest land in that crappy region of the Earth - god actually meant something else. So they invaded and took more.

What gets me is, why has the US protected and supported Israel for so long? The usual reasons for suppporting a nation in the middle east aren't there - Israel has no oil, is not a stabilizing influence in the region, and is not an ally - they routinely spy on us, and betray us the moment it conveniences them to do so.

I don't dislike Judaism or the Jewish people, I just hate the policies of Israel.

Unfortunately, many Israelis and many Jewish Americans will tell you that those things are one and the same and you're a dirty anti-Semite.

 
GAT_00 [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 01:49:32 PM  
Benevolent Misanthrope: Unfortunately, many Israelis and many Jewish Americans will tell you that those things are one and the same and you're a dirty anti-Semite.

No shiat, really? I've never had that particular problem. Nope, not once.

 
Benevolent Misanthrope [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 01:51:54 PM  
GAT_00: Benevolent Misanthrope: Unfortunately, many Israelis and many Jewish Americans will tell you that those things are one and the same and you're a dirty anti-Semite.

No shiat, really? I've never had that particular problem. Nope, not once.


I know, I know, it's rare, and only a few here on Fark would even think it. But it does happen.

 
Con_Authority [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 02:21:26 PM  
Basically, Israel demands the United States regularly provide massive amounts of US taxpayer dollars and US weaponry, while at the same time treating the US as an enemy.

Israel's numerous successful spying operations against the US, should have resulted in severe sanctions if not US military action to cripple their intelligence infrastructure. Their spying against the US has cost the US taxpayer untold billions of dollars and risked the lives of US intelligence operatives.

Yet we not only fail to take action but instead INCREASE the huge welfare check we write for them. I have often wondered if Israel is blackmailing key US politicians.

 
bogey [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 02:44:00 PM  
Con_Authority: I have often wondered if Israel is blackmailing key US politicians.

I'd guess it's a combination of blackmailing and bribing. Carrot and stick kind of arrangement.

 
mediablitz [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 02:45:31 PM  
jonasborg: Obama is suck a prick for making this happen. Jesus.

I appreciate your support ;-)

 
Benevolent Misanthrope [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 03:19:08 PM  
bogey: Con_Authority: I have often wondered if Israel is blackmailing key US politicians.

I'd guess it's a combination of blackmailing and bribing. Carrot and stick kind of arrangement.


Charlie Wilson openly acknowledged that. "I get elected mostly by Jews." - not from his district, but from Jewish organizations that give huge amounts of money to politicians on appropriations committees that affect funding for Israel.

I'm starting to think, though, that US politicians are starting to treat Israel like Israel treats the US - take the cash and do whatever they damn well please. Then demand more cash if Israel wants their help. Then deny that they ever said it. Israel may be about to get a taste of its own medicine. And learn that if they are an independent nation and accountable to no one, they can damn well make their own way in the world.

 
msannomalley [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 03:36:28 PM  
mediablitz: Stealth Godwin'd in the Boobies.

Sounds painful. Hope she was wearing a sports bra.

 
mainstreet62 [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 03:50:42 PM  
I hereby use my vast powers to summon Tatsuma to this thread!

/not really that vast

 
bogey [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 03:55:58 PM  
mainstreet62: I hereby use my vast powers to summon Tatsuma to this thread!

I'd be far more impressed if you could keep him out.

 
Tatsuma [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:12:32 PM  
mainstreet62: I hereby use my vast powers to summon Tatsuma to this thread!

/not really that vast


Hey, I'm in Iranian threads, not going to bother with this one, really

 
Benevolent Misanthrope [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:24:34 PM  
bogey: mainstreet62: I hereby use my vast powers to summon Tatsuma to this thread!

I'd be far more impressed if you could keep him out.


You won't have to. He only argues opinion, not fact. Nothing much to say about one survey that shows what we already knew - people are tired of Israel's shiat and aren't buying the "self defense" line any more.

 
namatad [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:36:43 PM  
um
who did the poll?
was there a matching poll last year?
I am shocked and surprised to see this much of a change in anything in one years worht of time

 
Tatsuma [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:38:11 PM  
namatad: um
who did the poll?
was there a matching poll last year?
I am shocked and surprised to see this much of a change in anything in one years worht of time


It's an unpublished poll from a virulently anti-zionist, so take it with a grain of salt the size of ahmadinejad's head.

 
Benevolent Misanthrope [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:55:01 PM  
Tatsuma: namatad: um
who did the poll?
was there a matching poll last year?
I am shocked and surprised to see this much of a change in anything in one years worht of time

It's an unpublished poll from a virulently anti-zionist, so take it with a grain of salt the size of ahmadinejad's head.


Ah. Well, nevermind. Apparently, it's now a Tatsuma thread where anyone who disagrees with Israel or Tatsuma is an anti-Semite or anti-Zionist.

*Yawn*

 
namatad [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 04:57:06 PM  
Benevolent Misanthrope: Ah. Well, nevermind.

um
is the poll published?
if not, it isnt a poll, it is just crap

I took a poll, which is secret and unplubished which shows that america is over 9000% in favor of MORE aide to israel

 
Tatsuma [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:00:56 PM  
Benevolent Misanthrope: Ah. Well, nevermind. Apparently, it's now a Tatsuma thread where anyone who disagrees with Israel or Tatsuma is an anti-Semite or anti-Zionist.

...

I'm gonna wave my freak flag high (why I say I'm an 'Anti-Zionist,' not a 'Post-Zionist')

www.opaquelucidity.com

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:15:18 PM  

Id expect an organization that bills itself as

"As Israel faces threats from Iran and their proxies Hezbollah and Hamas, TIP is working to protect Israel and your global Jewish family"

and runs the

The Israel Project's Ultimate Training Seminar for Pro -Israel Advocates
I could see plausibility for some balking at these polling figures. Orin Nir chimed in. I want to see Guttman's take on this... in the Forward perhaps?

Whatever. Its not like Obama is really applying pressure on the Israelis. Balking on the settlements "natural growth" BS is idiotic, IMO. Obama is giving Netanyahu a very right wing Israeli friendly proposition otherwise.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:24:28 PM  
Party Boy: The Israel Project's Ultimate Training Seminar for Pro -Israel Advocates

side note. down that link..

On average, Americans watch 4.3 hours of television per day. And what do they see about Israel? Too often, it is negative press. Polling indicates that most people, including college students, form their opinions about foreign affairs from television and news-papers. In order to get the next generation of Jews and non-Jews to feel close to Israel, we have to first improve the source of their information and images -- the news media. Fortunately, YOU can make a difference.
Seriously? Claiming American media is too often anti Israeli? omfg.

 
whiskeyinthejar [recently expired TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:53:00 PM  
Tatsuma: It's an unpublished poll from a virulently anti-zionist, so take it with a grain of salt the size of ahmadinejad's head.

Here is a published poll from a few weeks ago with some similar questions (mostly about Israeli settlements) showing a growing majority of Americans (around 3/4ths) oppose Israeli settlement in Palestinian territory. They detail their methodology and the exact questions asked. Still nothing approaching proof, but it adds some credence to the poll in TFA.

 
namatad [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:56:50 PM  
whiskeyinthejar: a growing majority of Americans (around 3/4ths) oppose Israeli settlement in Palestinian territory

sure
but can most americans find israel on a map?

 
Tatsuma [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 05:57:27 PM  
March 03, 2009
Gallup poll


PRINCETON, NJ -- The Obama administration has signaled it will be more energetic than its predecessor in brokering a Mideast peace, with the appointment of a special envoy and with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's visit to the region this week. While their government may be steering a new course, Americans' views toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict haven't changed: nearly 6 in 10 (59%) say their sympathies in the conflict lie more with the Israelis; just 18% side with the Palestinians.

According to Gallup's annual World Affairs survey, updated Feb. 9-12, 2009, about a quarter of Americans are partial to neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians. This includes 9% saying they favor neither side, 4% saying they favor both equally, and 10% with no opinion. The 59% favoring Israel this year is identical to what Gallup found in February 2008, and similar to the annual reading each year since 2006.


Let's see... unpublished poll we know nothing about, based on the word of extremely virulent anti-Israel blogger or Gallup. One showing incredibly sharp changes, the other showing that the trend is equal to what it previously was.

Hmmm, who to believe, who to believe indeed.

whiskeyinthejar: Here is a published poll from a few weeks ago with some similar questions (mostly about Israeli settlements) showing a growing majority of Americans (around 3/4ths) oppose Israeli settlement in Palestinian territory. They detail their methodology and the exact questions asked. Still nothing approaching proof, but it adds some credence to the poll in TFA.

Funny, because I've got a poll that says 49% of Americans do not believe in the Two-State solution, or that America should support such a solution.

 
whiskeyinthejar [recently expired TotalFark] 2009-06-14 06:12:17 PM  
namatad: sure
but can most americans find israel on a map?


*shrug* Probably not.

Tatsuma: Let's see... unpublished poll we know nothing about, based on the word of extremely virulent anti-Israel blogger or Gallup. One showing incredibly sharp changes, the other showing that the trend is equal to what it previously was.

Hmmm, who to believe, who to believe indeed.


Different polls, different questions, different results. Any one poll isn't going to have the complete picture - I just offered up the other one as evidence. Take it for what you will.

 
CitizenTed [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 06:35:23 PM  
I didn't realize that Israel had Jews in it. This has really changed my mind about the whole thing.

/another fickle American voter.

 
The Icelander [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 06:49:17 PM  
Party Boy: Seriously? Claiming American media is too often anti Israeli? omfg.

It's the fact that they're reporting anything about the religious conflict in Israel.

The only way people wouldn't get a negative opinion of either side in the conflict is if it wasn't reported at all.

\As long as there is religion, there will never be peace in Israel

 
Crosshair [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 07:10:16 PM  
Cool, then lets cut Egypt and the other countries in that region off as well. We can't afford that aid anyway.

 
Benevolent Misanthrope [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 07:23:55 PM  
Crosshair: Cool, then lets cut Egypt and the other countries in that region off as well. We can't afford that aid anyway.

Sure - let's re-evaluate our relationship with everyone. Who's not giving us a good return on investment? Who's using our investment to screw us up the ass? Who's taking our money and doing things that are in our interests? Re-evaluate and see what we can afford and where we'd better cut our losses.

Works for me.

 
Party Boy [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 07:31:53 PM  
Old post
(via Yoweigh)

George Washington's warnings and U.S. policy towards Israel

Glenn Greenwald: In a democracy, one could expect that politicians would be afraid to express a view that 70% of the citizens oppose. Yet here we have the exact opposite situation: no mainstream politician would dare express the view that 70% of Americans support; instead, the universal piety is the one that only a small minority accept. Isn't that fairly compelling evidence of the complete disconnect between our political elites and the people they purportedly represent?
--------

The critical question which the survey does not address is, what do most Americans think our policy should be toward Israel and the Palestinians? Specifically, do most Americans favor the "special relationship," where we unconditionally give Israel abundant material aid and firm diplomatic backing? This policy -- which has been our actual policy for many years -- means that we back Israel to the hilt no matter what it does to the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories. We favor Israel over the Palestinians, and indeed, favor Israel in any conflict in which it is involved, like the Lebanon war in 2006.

The answer to that critical question is that most Americans do not support the special relationship. They are much more critical of Israeli policy than their elected representatives are and they are far more willing to support a hard-nosed approach to dealing with the Jewish state than most policymakers would be. For example, a 2003 survey conducted by the University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) found that 60 percent of Americans were willing to withhold aid to Israel if it resisted U.S. pressure to settle its conflict with the Palestinians. In fact, 73 percent of those surveyed said the United States should not favor either side in the conflict. Two years later, a survey commissioned by the Anti-Defamation League found that 78 percent of Americans believed that Washington should favor neither Israel nor the Palestinians. A July 1, 2008 poll ("World
Public Opinion on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict,")
conducted by (PIPA) found that 71 percent of Americans believe that we should take neither side in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict; only 21%
think we should take Israel's side.

 
pnjunction [recently expired TotalFark] 2009-06-14 07:47:06 PM  
Con_Authority: I have often wondered if Israel is blackmailing key US politicians.

Party Boy: Isn't that fairly compelling evidence of the complete disconnect between our political elites and the people they purportedly represent?

Lobbying and 'donations' are the immunodeficiency, the Israels is just one of the illnesses to move in.

 
pnjunction [recently expired TotalFark] 2009-06-14 07:47:51 PM  
pnjunction: Lobbying and 'donations' are the immunodeficiency, the Israels is just one of the illnesses to move in.

Hurr...the Isreali lobby is one of the illnesses that is.

 
Lost Thought 00 2009-06-14 08:04:44 PM  
namatad: whiskeyinthejar: a growing majority of Americans (around 3/4ths) oppose Israeli settlement in Palestinian territory

sure
but can most americans find israel on a map?


Find God and draw a straight line down.

 
DarnoKonrad 2009-06-14 08:05:25 PM  
For a very long time, I've noticed that both left and right have been mumbling under their breath that this deal with Israel sucks.

I have a hard time believing this poll, but at the same time I've often wondered why blind unquestioned support for our ally over there has been considered gospel considering how few people I know outside of hard core religious people really give a rats ass about Israel -- much less what they're actually doing.

 
eddiesocket 2009-06-14 08:05:58 PM  
Gee, Subby, didn't see the question in there "Should the US support Israel?"

 
MIguy [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 08:06:52 PM  
Cool, lets support the dudes that like to blow themselves up. I bet they're more fun to party with.

 
LittleSmitty 2009-06-14 08:07:57 PM  
As neither side will compromise on key sticking points, this will continue and nobody gets peace. Israel and the Palestinians are never going to come to an accord on their own. Unless someone else comes along and smacks both sides upside the head and forces them to kiss and make up, this crap will continue, forever.

And since no one will smack them both, this crap will continue, forever

 
Dancin_In_Anson [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 08:08:22 PM  
You're a witness. You're always standing around watching what's happening, scribbling in your book what other people do. You have to get in the middle of it. You have to take sides. Make a contribution to the fight. Any fight. The one you believe in.

 
brainiac-dumdum [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 08:09:41 PM  
Wow, I'm impressed with my fellow Americans.

How unusual

 
fenrael23 2009-06-14 08:10:24 PM  
Excellent.

 
crazypeltast52 2009-06-14 08:10:30 PM  
Party Boy: Party Boy: The Israel Project's Ultimate Training Seminar for Pro -Israel Advocates

side note. down that link..
On average, Americans watch 4.3 hours of television per day. And what do they see about Israel? Too often, it is negative press. Polling indicates that most people, including college students, form their opinions about foreign affairs from television and news-papers. In order to get the next generation of Jews and non-Jews to feel close to Israel, we have to first improve the source of their information and images -- the news media. Fortunately, YOU can make a difference.Seriously? Claiming American media is too often anti Israeli? omfg.


People still use those things?

 
DarnoKonrad 2009-06-14 08:12:00 PM  

 
brainiac-dumdum [TotalFark] 2009-06-14 08:12:25 PM  
MIguy: Cool, lets support the dudes that like to blow themselves up. I bet they're more fun to party with.

no one is defending suicide bombing and to suggest so is ridiculous.

Give the Palestinians a place of their own.

 
elfletcho 2009-06-14 08:14:05 PM  
Lets not support the one true democracy in the middle east. (Iraq is on the way though). Fickle stupid idiots involved in this poll. fark the Palestines.

 
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