Hell, if some of the cities (Detroit, Flint, Lansing) don't even pave all of their roads, why would anyone expect any county or township to do so as well?

Get rid of the politicians who paid to pave them in the first place.

I thought this was just called entropy...

That should turn out well in the winter.

Gravel roads are fine in winter.
Bad paved roads, filled with potholes are much worse than a gravel road.
Guess I'm not seeing where the 'silly' comes in here.

I don't see the "silly" either. About time government tried to find ways to spend less, rather than to just tax more.

Diamond Joe: That should turn out well in the winter.

Gravel and dirt roads are awesome in the winter.

Our politicians here repaved a main thoroughfare 3 times in as many years, each time causing traffic delays (which increase pollution). It's good to know they were probably paying about $100,000 per mile and had to do it 3 years in a row.

I've got no real evidence, but I'm convinced the politicians who approve these road projects are getting paid off by the construction companies.

Where I rent, it was paved when I first moved in, but a month later they turned it back to gravel. During winter it was not any less treacherous than the paved roads.

fta: More than 20 of the state's 83 counties have reverted deteriorating paved roads to gravel in the last few years....

...At least 50 miles have been reverted in the state in the past three years.

It'd be nice to see which counties this is happening in. People live in rural counties too, Lansing. Human people!

Side note, I guess it doesn't really matter, it's most likely not mine since I've yet to see any of that happening.

Some of these "paved"(I use that term loosely) roads are much better off as gravel.

Gravel roads attract less traffic. I wish they'd return my road to gravel. Every time they pave another road, more McMansions with their attendant compliment of BMWs, 4-wheelers, and snow mobiles show up. More snot-nosed, latch-key kids who think it is their God-given right to ride over fences because they can't read No-Tresspassing signs. More drunken suburbanites fit out like Little Lord Fauntleroy shooting holes in my barn because they saw a deer and got excited. Never mind that they didn't have permission to hunt the land they were on.

Turn everything except the interstates back to gravel for all I care.

Lee Bruns: Gravel roads are fine in winter.
Bad paved roads, filled with potholes are much worse than a gravel road.
Guess I'm not seeing where the 'silly' comes in here.

Because Michigan isn't going to have any vehicles or people left in it in a year or two?

Let the wilderness reclaim its own...

Mr. Right: Gravel roads attract less traffic. I wish they'd return my road to gravel. Every time they pave another road, more McMansions with their attendant compliment of BMWs, 4-wheelers, and snow mobiles show up. More snot-nosed, latch-key kids who think it is their God-given right to ride over fences because they can't read No-Tresspassing signs. More drunken suburbanites fit out like Little Lord Fauntleroy shooting holes in my barn because they saw a deer and got excited. Never mind that they didn't have permission to hunt the land they were on.

Turn everything except the interstates back to gravel for all I care.


Sounds like a case of the Mondays.

Of course, to drive on gravel roads it's much better to have a big vehicle like a truck or an SUV. Won't be many of those left in years to come.

Wait till they get the bill for having to send in a road grader to get rid of the pot holes and ruts 4 or 5 times a year. Morans.

mud_shark: I've got no real evidence, but I'm convinced the politicians who approve these road projects are getting paid off by the construction companies.

Then something like this must be lobbied for by the carwash companies.

And so it begins.

We're letting some of our roads in Northeast Ohio just go back to the original brick. Seems easier that way.

Gravel is cheaper for low volume roads. Hard surfaces are cheaper and better for high volume or high speed roads.

Supposedly there are gravel roads good for 60-70 mph, but I haven't met one good for much over 40.

Can we also allow the aqueducts to crumble?

Michigan counties could sell the paved roads to Nassau county Florida. We would get better roads. Here in Yulee the pot-holes are repaired with cold tar-gravel mix, smacked with a shovel, and called done.
How much would three hundred feet coast? I want to pave my driveway.

Anyone complaining about how bad a gravel road will be during the winter needs to go back to the southern state they were born in.

sparkeyjames: Wait till they get the bill for having to send in a road grader to get rid of the pot holes and ruts 4 or 5 times a year. Morans.

Only if you use a grader. There is a MUCH cheaper to maintain gravel roads.

Makes sense to me. Low traffic roads don't need to be paved.

Roads don't last as long up here. See... roads tends to get cracks in them. Then the water gets down in those cracks and freezes, making the cracks wider. Repeat that process over and over again every year and you end up with a bunch of busted up roads ALL over Michigan. Now compound that with big ass trucks that scrape these roads with big ass metal plows that grab chunks of the road pushed up by the ice and rip them right out of the road leaving nice big fat holes in it. Of course there is also the normal wear and tear on the roads from us driving on them.

More or less... this is a damn fine idea. We waste far too much money on re-paving the same roads over and over again. But I could totally understand how someone from somewhere that it doesn't freeze every year could think that it's silly that this would be cost effective for us.

/grew up on a dirt road
//thought it was cool watching the cars drive down it kicking up a trail of dust.

My county was almost all gravel roads outside the towns (and some of those town roads were gravel, too). My Dad ran the county road department. Farmers would pay for their roads to be graveled during the winter, and the highway department would buy the rock and keep up the roads.

After snows they could clear several hundred miles of road in a couple of days.

Everything's great until the melt comes, and some a**hole farmer drives a giant grain truck through (couldn't wait another day) and tears the road all to hell for everyone else. Then biatches when it isn't automagically regraded the next day.

In short: there's nothing wrong with gravel rural roads. The same can't always be said for their travelers.

Oh yea, we better be prepared now boys & girls, 'cause the next thing we may hear is banjo music playing here in Michigan. I best be fillin' up the gas tank in the ol' LeSabre and be ready to run in a moments notice now.

Scruffinator: fta: More than 20 of the state's 83 counties have reverted deteriorating paved roads to gravel in the last few years....

...At least 50 miles have been reverted in the state in the past three years.

It'd be nice to see which counties this is happening in. People live in rural counties too, Lansing. Human people!

Side note, I guess it doesn't really matter, it's most likely not mine since I've yet to see any of that happening.

I believe they're planning to do this in some of the rural townships in Saginaw County, so I suspect every Road Commission is looking into this. They're broke, like every other branch of state/local government.

ZAZ: Supposedly there are gravel roads good for 60-70 mph, but I haven't met one good for much over 40.

I grew up in rural Michigan. The nearest paved road to our house was five miles away. We drove on gravel a lot.

About once or twice a year, the roads were in good enough condition to drive 60+ MPH. 51.5 weeks a year, there were too many ruts, potholes, washboards to go over 10 MPH if that.

Jocundry: ZAZ: Supposedly there are gravel roads good for 60-70 mph, but I haven't met one good for much over 40.

I grew up in rural Michigan. The nearest paved road to our house was five miles away. We drove on gravel a lot.

About once or twice a year, the roads were in good enough condition to drive 60+ MPH. 51.5 weeks a year, there were too many ruts, potholes, washboards to go over 10 MPH if that.

Yep, sounds about right to me.

How to tell an election is coming: they pave the roads.

How to tell the county voted for the right party: they pave the roads.

How to tell it's Sping: the paved roads heave, buckle and turn into potholes anywhere there is water.

Gravel roads are "green" and will probably be spreading as the oil runs out (you can make roads out of sulphur though) but the mud, dust and dings from flying gravel probably aren't very green since cars don't last as long. Also, they use oil to keep the dust down. They'll have to stop doing that too.

Solution: build roads like the Romans did: grade a layer of dirt; cover it with coarse gravel, tamp; finer gravel, tamp; fine gravel, tamp; and then a layer of stone.

The Romans tamped the roads by jumping up and down on something that resembled a cross between a pogo stick and the device that is used today. That'll make your chain gangs more interesting. Especially all female gangs.

The difference between Canadian road crews and American road crews is that the Canadian governments don't bother to arrest theirs. The jobs are assigned to the rabble in exchange for votes. It's pretty much the same people otherwise but it is cheaper to do it the Canadian way.

Of course, they're still working on finishing some of the class two Roman roads in parts of Europe, so no change there.

I like stone bridges.

Maybe we could ask the Fed Gov real nicely if they will take a year off from blowing stuff up so we could maybe spend some of that money fixing stuff at home.

If the Gov can't afford to fix the pothole in front of my house then how the heck can they afford to bomb some %#$*hole on the other side of the planet.

Draskinn: Maybe we could ask the Fed Gov real nicely if they will take a year off from blowing stuff up so we could maybe spend some of that money fixing stuff at home.

If the Gov can't afford to fix the pothole in front of my house then how the heck can they afford to bomb some %#$*hole on the other side of the planet.

There is more lobbyist money being spent on installing potholes than fixing them.

ZAZ: Supposedly there are gravel roads good for 60-70 mph, but I haven't met one good for much over 40.

You don't sound like someone who grew up on gravel roads. "Good for" driving, probably not. But, there aren't many rural 16-year-old boys who haven't hit 80, regularly, on gravel. If they've survived to be 20, they're halfway decent at it.

/ In a Dodge K-Car wagon.

They should never have been paved to begin with!!! Many of us don't realize the absurd ideas some of these people (road planners?) have. They wanted to turn our county road into a 4 lane highway for a total of A HALF MILE and put in curb/gutters. Wow that's an awesome idea. cut out half of our lawns to put in a huge road that gets maybe a car every two minutes.

What if you don't have a pick-up truck? It's going to eat the heck out of your undercarriage. I'd hate to see what it would do to a custom paint job.

Lawnchair:
You don't sound like someone who grew up on gravel roads. "Good for" driving, probably not. But, there aren't many rural 16-year-old boys who haven't hit 80, regularly, on gravel. If they've survived to be 20, they're halfway decent at it.

/ In a Dodge K-Car wagon.

You just have to know your vehicle and your gravel. On freshly poured gravel my car slides around like it's on ice past 15mph. On old gravel, my propane delivery truck doesn't even blink going above freeway speed.

/almost 24 years old
//no wrecks
///pulls out penis, spins it around like a tire

Man, my state sucks.

Me, I{m going into the windshield bizness.

Sounds like you guys would be happier with dirt roads and horse and buggies. I guess seeing how the auto industry endgame in Michigan is turning out, I can't really blame you.

I love gravel roads when on my bike.... oh wait...

But the way that some streets are, gravel would probably safer and easier on my suspension (both bike and cars) than the freaking potholes that we have.

Brainmeat: What if you don't have a pick-up truck? It's going to eat the heck out of your undercarriage. I'd hate to see what it would do to a custom paint job.

If you don't have a pickup truck, we don't want you out here where the gravel roads are. And we laugh at what it does to your custom paint job. This is why we want real vehicles out of Detroit instead of a coffee can duct taped to a skateboard.

Mr. Right: Brainmeat: What if you don't have a pick-up truck? It's going to eat the heck out of your undercarriage. I'd hate to see what it would do to a custom paint job.

If you don't have a pickup truck, we don't want you out here where the gravel roads are. And we laugh at what it does to your custom paint job. This is why we want real vehicles out of Detroit instead of a coffee can duct taped to a skateboard.

The only way a truck is better is for getting unstuck once you do something stupid. We're talking about ROADS here, not a two-track through the woods. I laugh at the people tip-toeing their SUVs through the spring ruts, while people in cars go around them and the ruts.

Oh, by the way, "Detroit" and "custom paint job" used to go hand-in-hand. Go right ahead and laugh at the guy in the custom-painted classic american muscle-car, I dare ya.

I live in MIchigan and on a gravel road, so I am getting a kick out of these replies.....etc.


The highlight of living on a 'rural road' is the small fact that there are no speed limits. Yes, there are the 25 mph signs, but they are not enforced in rural areas.

Pot holes and washboard like conditions are a better cop than cops itself.

Jocundry, Lawnchair

My mother used to live on a gravel road. We called it "dirt", but it was an improved road more properly called gravel. She still owns the house and we go there sometimes. After the grader comes through, once or twice a year, you drop from 45 to 40 where the pavement ends. Just before regrading you're probably around 25. There's not enough traffic to wreck the surface. Growing up the traffic there was five cars per day or less on average (except during hunting season and the year per decade that loggers came through). It's a lot busier now, probably over ten cars per day.

And strangely enough, my mother was the speed demon when she was growing up, not me when I was. I'm talking 100 mph airborne over the humped bridge on the dirt road kind of speed. (Different dirt road.)

The highlight of living on a 'rural road' is the small fact that there are no speed limits. Yes, there are the 25 mph signs, but they are not enforced in rural areas.

Oakland County? That's one of the counties that decided not to take down the illegal 25 mph signs after the state abolished their speed traps. The speed limit on almost all gravel roads in Michigan now is 55; state police and DOT officials don't like to set speed limits because road conditions change too much. They considered doing speed studies right after regrading to post for optimum conditions. I think that didn't go through. I could be wrong.

I live on a gravel road, so I'm getting a kick...

In the winter and during mud season, it's easier to travel than the paved roads. We had some record snowfall here in my part of NH the past couple of years, and the DOT budget is not allowing for timely plowing, salting or sanding of roads. I think it's a wise money-saving measure. More states should look into it.

there are a great many roads here in mo that never should have ben paved. they just dont generate enough traffic to justify the cost.
i used to go to a little cabin resort down in the ozarks that had a one lane two track road leading to it. the sign guiding you there
said 7 miles,99 turns and they werent joking. it even had a cattle gate you had to cross. but when you finally got there you had solitude. no one would risk that road on a lark. didnt have to worry about creeps sneaking in and stealing your stuff out of the boat or snatching your cooler off of your cabin porch. in the twenty or more years i had made the trek,they gradually paved the road all the way to the place. now you really have to watch your stuff down there and the folks who own the weekend homes around the area have to take thier stuff home or risk losing thier tvs and stereos to meth heads who can now get away quite easily. the resorts business has dropped to an all time low
as people dont like coming down to the dock in the morning and discovering thier boats stripped and thier stainless steel props missing from thier rigs. and believe it or not,just a couple years ago,we had bible pushers knocking on our cabin doors.
that would never have happened if they hadnt paved the road.
i get enough jehovahs knocking on my door here at home without having them chase me down when im one of my few vacations.

I liked the idea a lot until this very afternoon when I was out on the motorcycle and unexpectedly discovered that a friend's road which used to be paved is now gravel. That was a little unnerving, as I tend not to obey the speed limit in the strictest sense. What gets me about it is that they didn't choose a road that needed to be fixed. No, they actually took out what was a perfectly good paved road which they had just put in 3 years ago, dug up the road bed, and put in a brand new gravel road. There weren't any potholes, broken chunks, huge cracks, nothing. Bonus: The road is only 150 yards long, is a dead end, and has about 8 houses on it...most of which are currently for sale.

averagejoe42: Mr. Right: Brainmeat: What if you don't have a pick-up truck? It's going to eat the heck out of your undercarriage. I'd hate to see what it would do to a custom paint job.

If you don't have a pickup truck, we don't want you out here where the gravel roads are. And we laugh at what it does to your custom paint job. This is why we want real vehicles out of Detroit instead of a coffee can duct taped to a skateboard.

The only way a truck is better is for getting unstuck once you do something stupid. We're talking about ROADS here, not a two-track through the woods. I laugh at the people tip-toeing their SUVs through the spring ruts, while people in cars go around them and the ruts.

Oh, by the way, "Detroit" and "custom paint job" used to go hand-in-hand. Go right ahead and laugh at the guy in the custom-painted classic american muscle-car, I dare ya.

Trucks are way better when you have to haul stuff. My Dad's Caddy was a really nice car, rode like a dream but I couldn't find anywhere to put a ton and a half of hog feed in it. For going down a highway, however, it's awfully hard to beat that ride.

And I especially don't have a problem with custom paint jobs. Some of them are truly awesome. They just don't do well on gravel roads.

I like visiting the city just like a lot of folks like visiting the country. And in the city, my 3/4T 4WD extended-cab long box isn't worth a bucket of warm spit. You want a real laugh, go through valet parking with it. You'll end up parking that beast yourself. But out here in the country it's the only way to go. Foot of snow blowing into big drifts? No problem. I can tell you that, even with my V-plow on the front, my windshield is tolerant of 8 foot drifts. You do have to stop on the other side and clean off the hood - failure to do so inhibits visibility. When your windshield wipers will only tunnel, they require assistance.

I love gravel roads precisely because they do limit "casual" traffic. And when I'm going to the neighbor's with a team and a mower or spreader, I don't like casual traffic. Just like city folks don't like me clogging their surface streets with my truck. Just for the record, I visit my kids and grandkids in their respective cities every so often and unless I'm hauling something to them like a winter's worth of pork, beef, chicken, veal or venison or some heirloom piece of furniture I've made for them, I rent a proper little gas-sipping, butt-dragging, pedal-harder-if-you-want-to-pass-that-tortoise car.

Everything in its place. Paved streets in theirs, gravel roads in theirs.

And now, back to the latest Iran thread. Where there is serious business going on. Not worrying about gravel roads over there, are they?