What happened to all those Loyal Bushies? Seriously.

They didn't abandon the GOP, the GOP abandoned them.

As a white middle aged professionals with a 6 figure income (both mine and my wife) tired of paying high taxes & generally conservative, we should be smack in their demographic. Yet we look at them and see nothing that appeals to us.

We would not be welcomed because we don't pray to Jesus, have a live and let live attitude to homosexuality (it's none of the government's business), refuse to force our views on abortion on those who disagree with us and ... gasp ... don't think every tax or government regulation is evil.

When I look at what the GOP stands for, I don't see my views reflected in theirs. I have no problem with diversity. I think an educated society with a relatively healthy population that is free from worrying about the most basic needs is an overall good thing for the nation as a whole. I think some government regulation is a necessary evil, especially after recent events where the players took out innocent bystanders, but don't want the government telling me what to do when the only person harmed by actions is me (if I choose to be an idiot and ride a motorcycle without a helmet than that should be between me, Darwin and whoever receives my organs). Much of this used to fit squarely within the GOP, but not today.

Do I think there is too much government with their hands out? Yes (but then I live in NJ). Do I think government can solve all problems? No.

damageddude: They didn't abandon the GOP, the GOP abandoned them.

As a white middle aged professionals with a 6 figure income (both mine and my wife) tired of paying high taxes & generally conservative, we should be smack in their demographic. Yet we look at them and see nothing that appeals to us.

We would not be welcomed because we don't pray to Jesus, have a live and let live attitude to homosexuality (it's none of the government's business), refuse to force our views on abortion on those who disagree with us and ... gasp ... don't think every tax or government regulation is evil.

When I look at what the GOP stands for, I don't see my views reflected in theirs. I have no problem with diversity. I think an educated society with a relatively healthy population that is free from worrying about the most basic needs is an overall good thing for the nation as a whole. I think some government regulation is a necessary evil, especially after recent events where the players took out innocent bystanders, but don't want the government telling me what to do when the only person harmed by actions is me (if I choose to be an idiot and ride a motorcycle without a helmet than that should be between me, Darwin and whoever receives my organs). Much of this used to fit squarely within the GOP, but not today.

Do I think there is too much government with their hands out? Yes (but then I live in NJ). Do I think government can solve all problems? No.

You sound awfully familiar, too bad the party doesn't think so.

But instead, thinking like what you just said makes us "libs".

Mordant: You sound awfully familiar, too bad the party doesn't think so.

yeah. he hit the nail on the head for a lot of people I think. They just let the crazies take over. Rove-Atwater-Buchananism gone wild.

Hobodeluxe: Mordant: You sound awfully familiar, too bad the party doesn't think so.

yeah. he hit the nail on the head for a lot of people I think. They just let the crazies take over. Rove-Atwater-Buchananism gone wild.

I misread that and thought you said "Bachmannism." I guess that applies, too.

There's no point in voting for a party that represents none of my interests. They don't care about lower taxes, they don't care about spending cuts, they don't care about the economy, they don't care about smaller government. They do seem to care a lot about jesus. They kinda seemed to like murdering abortion doctors, and got a kick outta that shooting at the holocaust museum. And they think that torturing prisoners in Gitmo was a great way to pass a slow weekend.

So when Rush Limbaugh (among others) when on his rampage about purging the party of 'the ebbil moderates', I didn't really fight too hard to stay.

The left-right paradigm is a red herring to distract you from the fact that we are all becoming slaves.

Don't let them sucker you into silly partisan fighting.

Good. I seriously can't think a single thing the GOP believes which isn't either wrong or shallow.

You know, I don't think the "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic" metaphor works for the GOP anymore. I think the GOP is Challenger and we're, oh, about 65 seconds into the mission.

I just don't think we'll ever see a real end to the GOP given how far entrenched into society they are.

dorko16: I just don't think we'll ever see a real end to the GOP given how far entrenched into society they are.

But why is it that society isn't heavily made up of people like damageddude described ? Why can't those people come together and get up off their asses long enough to take a stand and get things on track ?

Mordant: But why is it that society isn't heavily made up of people like damageddude described ? Why can't those people come together and get up off their asses long enough to take a stand and get things on track ?

Because those people tend to be liberal. How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?

damageddude: They didn't abandon the GOP, the GOP abandoned them.

How is the GOP's core philosophy significantly different than it was during the 80s? During the 80s they still pushed tax cuts, they still pushed an interventionist foreign policy, they still pushed social conservatism.

The only difference has been the effectiveness of their leadership, IMHO.

Mordant: dorko16: I just don't think we'll ever see a real end to the GOP given how far entrenched into society they are.

But why is it that society isn't heavily made up of people like damageddude described ? Why can't those people come together and get up off their asses long enough to take a stand and get things on track ?

I'd vote for damagedude's party in a heartbeat.

As for your question, I think the answer could be a dissertation, but it stems from a crazy/vocal/well-entrenched minority that happens to also own most of the country.

I just hope not all of them jump ship to the democrats, but to a third party.

DamnYankees: Mordant: But why is it that society isn't heavily made up of people like damageddude described ? Why can't those people come together and get up off their asses long enough to take a stand and get things on track ?

Because those people tend to be liberal. How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?

I guess my view is different because those are the people I've been around so much. But it can't take a 6 figure income to be a reasonably educated, sensible person with decent morals and a solid sense of personal responsibility.

Today's Republicans represent none of those things. (and yes, the Dems are bad too, since that will be the only defense offered once the howler monkeys arrive in the thread). It's not that the dems are better it's that I expect more from a party of conservatives.

Mordant: I guess my view is different because those are the people I've been around so much. But it can't take a 6 figure income to be a reasonably educated, sensible person with decent morals and a solid sense of personal responsibility.

When you combine those 3 things you tend to end up with a more liberal person, though.

elchip: How is the GOP's core philosophy significantly different than it was during the 80s? During the 80s they still pushed tax cuts, they still pushed an interventionist foreign policy, they still pushed social conservatism.

The argument would be that those policies made sense in the 80s, but not now. EVen though the policies are the same, that doesn't mean they are always and forver the right thing to use. The GOP is incapable of thinking this though. All they have is a hammer, so everything looks like a nail.

Mordant: Today's Republicans represent none of those things. (and yes, the Dems are bad too, since that will be the only defense offered once the howler monkeys arrive in the thread). It's not that the dems are better it's that I expect more from a party of conservatives.

Is wanting a fiscally responsible and socially progressive party that would ensure all of our rights really that crazy?

DamnYankees: When you combine those 3 things you tend to end up with a more liberal person, though.

Well, that's the other problem. My definition of "liberal" would be literal hippies who are vegetarians and really do want welfare and handouts for everyone. Not the current definition of liberal which is "anyone who ever disagrees with Fox news".

SilentStrider: I just hope not all of them jump ship to the democrats, but to a third party.

Too bad most of the third parties aren't worth joining.

Don't get too upset by my comment, I did say "most".

Mordant: DamnYankees: When you combine those 3 things you tend to end up with a more liberal person, though.

Well, that's the other problem. My definition of "liberal" would be literal hippies who are vegetarians and really do want welfare and handouts for everyone. Not the current definition of liberal which is "anyone who ever disagrees with Fox news".

According to Fox if you disagree with them that's exactly what you want

this sets up the perfect stage for a revolution of libertarian ideas. those idiotic independent's have minds that can be easily molded to our whims...i detest people who can't make up their minds about what to believe

No subby, the 23% just means that the GOP is being purified. Once they get down to 20%, the Party will be so pure that no one, not even Barack Hussein Muslim Birth Certificate Teleprompter Obama will be able to stand against them.

Existensial dyslexia: this sets up the perfect stage for a revolution of libertarian ideas. those idiotic independent's have minds that can be easily molded to our whims...i detest people who can't make up their minds about what to believe

a large part of the country is comprised of extreme moderates who don't have much ties to anything. The other part is people tied to a party, and not ideals.

DamnYankees: Mordant: But why is it that society isn't heavily made up of people like damageddude described ? Why can't those people come together and get up off their asses long enough to take a stand and get things on track ?

Because those people tend to be liberal. How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?

Eh, but we do have a disproportional impact on national politics as a group. I would wager a disproportionate amount of political donations come from upper middle class white people. If that demographic significantly abandoned the GOP, they'd probably be too broke to mount significant national opposition almost immediately.

Don't assume they will automatically swim to the U.S.S. Democrat though.

Duh.

The Republican Party concerns itself with two matters far too much for me to ever consider joining them. They are obsessed with religion and sex.

With sex it seems to be all about telling people not to have it, especially young people who are most likely to experiment with it, while some of the biggest names in the conservative movement have been caught more than once in illicit affairs. They are also obsessed with gay sex. I've never seen a greater case of the squeaky wheel wanting the grease than when it comes to gays and Republicans. "Methinks thou doth protest too much," comes to mind.

As for religion, the Republicans base all their beliefs on something man made and that has been used to justify violence and atrocity by hundreds of civilizations. They use it to hold back free thought, free expression, sex, scientific discovery, and even potentially life saving research. If a case can be made about a group that refuses to accept change and leave their heads buried firmly in the sand, then the relationship between Republicanism and religion makes it.

Phil Herup: Don't assume they will automatically swim to the U.S.S. Democrat though.

Nah lately it seems they would rather turn the U.S.S. Democrat into the USS Cole

DamnYankees: How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?


I would say a lot.

SilentStrider: I just hope not all of them jump ship to the democrats, but to a third party.

This. We shouldn't have a one-party rule. We need an opposition party, just not the current GOP as they are simply opposition for the sake of being opposition.

Phil Herup: DamnYankees: How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?


I would say a lot.

You also think 500K a year is the beginning of upper middle class.

Amdahl's street justice: DamnYankees: Mordant: But why is it that society isn't heavily made up of people like damageddude described ? Why can't those people come together and get up off their asses long enough to take a stand and get things on track ?

Because those people tend to be liberal. How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?

Eh, but we do have a disproportional impact on national politics as a group. I would wager a disproportionate amount of political donations come from upper middle class white people. If that demographic significantly abandoned the GOP, they'd probably be too broke to mount significant national opposition almost immediately.

As I recall, one of the interesting stories to come out of the 2008 elections was how much money Obama was drawing in from people flipping him a 20 or a 50 whenever they could. Not just big donors.

I would say that -almost always- the big donors have a disproportionate impact on politics, but that sometimes the lazy majority can be prodded to action.

Which brings us back to an educated electorate. :)

dorko16: I just don't think we'll ever see a real end to the GOP given how far entrenched into society they are.

Entrenchment is good for about 20% of the electorate. Where the GOP shines is marketing. They get people who disagree with major planks in their platform to vote for them because of their genius in branding, marketing and staying on message. Those skills add another 10-20% of the electorate to their ranks (according to the Dept of Numbers From My Arse).

That said, it sure would be nice if we could have the old GOP back. The one that attracted votes based on their positions and accomplishments. Now I'm sounding like everybody's grandpa. I remember when all this was open fields! And we wore onions on our belts!

Podna: Phil Herup: Don't assume they will automatically swim to the U.S.S. Democrat though.

Nah lately it seems they would rather turn the U.S.S. Democrat into the USS Cole



You mean the US warship attacked by OBL under Clinton's watch? The attack that was basically left unchallenged by Clinton's "response".

I am NOT a howler monkey.

Enraged kittens with full bladders are not known to fling poo.

Phil Herup: DamnYankees: How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?


I would say a lot.

No.

Podna: Phil Herup: Don't assume they will automatically swim to the U.S.S. Democrat though.

Nah lately it seems they would rather turn the U.S.S. Democrat into the USS Cole

I helped repair the USS Cole, so I'm getting kicks, etc.

DamnYankees: Phil Herup: I would say a lot.



You also think 500K a year is the beginning of upper middle class.


Sure do. Those people are not "rich". But I do not expect you to understand that point.

DamnYankees: Mordant: But why is it that society isn't heavily made up of people like damageddude described ? Why can't those people come together and get up off their asses long enough to take a stand and get things on track ?

Because those people tend to be liberal. How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?

More than you realize...

Hard core Republican? Roughly a quarter.
Hard core Democrat? Roughly a quarter.

The other half of the electorate? A spectrum from one to the other. Some of those who were pretty solid Republicans, but are thoroughly disgusted with the party, are now 'Independents'. Some of those who were in that deep middle who sway every which way as the wind blows have moved more solidly into the Democrat camp, for the time being.

Whether the winds of the voting public shift in strength in direction is going to have more to do with whether or not the Obama Administration can help lead a Democrat Congress to success, or failure.

damageddude: We would not be welcomed because we don't pray to Jesus, have a live and let live attitude to homosexuality (it's none of the government's business), refuse to force our views on abortion on those who disagree with us and ... gasp ... don't think every tax or government regulation is evil.
===============================================================

It's not so much that. though it's a big reason.

It's because the GOP is so far right they think that holocaust shooter is liberal!

When you think that abortion is bad, that's one thing. When you force people to carry to term even if they could die or got raped? Then you're a freaking far-right extremist twat.

And that's just ONE example.

If you're not a rich white male evangelical who bends to their every far-right ideology, they don't want you: Cases in point if you don't believe me: Arlen Specter, Colin Powell (there's a couple others recently too)

Contents of a Space Wasp's stomach: No.

Yes.

Dog?

Phil Herup: DamnYankees: Phil Herup: I would say a lot.



You also think 500K a year is the beginning of upper middle class.


Sure do. Those people are not "rich". But I do not expect you to understand that point.

Buddy, if that's true, then I'm so far away from reaching even the lower middle class I may as well just give up now, and take up bank robbing.

Phil Herup: Podna: Phil Herup: Don't assume they will automatically swim to the U.S.S. Democrat though.

Nah lately it seems they would rather turn the U.S.S. Democrat into the USS Cole



You mean the US warship attacked by OBL under Clinton's watch? The attack that was basically left unchallenged by Clinton's "response".

--->Point

---->You

Contents of a Space Wasp's stomach:No.

Yes.


Dog?

DamnYankees: Phil Herup: DamnYankees: How many white professionals with 6 figure incomes do you think there are, exactly?


I would say a lot.

You also think 500K a year is the beginning of upper middle class.

It's roughly 15% in case you're wondering. Phil's upper middle class makes up less than 1 percent of the population.

The best thing the Republicans can do outright is apologize for Bush and Cheney, publicly disavow them, eliminate any of their benefits they may have gotten from office, send them to the Hague, and remove Palin from the party. But since none of these has anything to do with Jesus, abortion, or some manufactured inflammatory bullshiat, I doubt that's going to happen.

Phil Herup: DamnYankees:
You also think 500K a year is the beginning of upper middle class.


Sure do. Those people are not "rich". But I do not expect you to understand that point.

That's completely farking retarded. YOU are completely farking retarded.