"I believe marriage is between a man and a woman" - Obama

I'm shocked SHOCKED at this development.

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

/say this with a Jim Nabors/Gomer Pyle voice

Disgraceful. The act, the action, the President's utter weakness on this issue. All of it.

God damnit Obama.

I'm not mad I voted for you (and never will be unless you burn the entire country to the ground and piss on the ashes, considering the alternative), but can you please stop being such an asshole?

All congress needs to do is overturn it.

PC LOAD LETTER: All congress needs to do is overturn it.

They aren't going to unless Obama actually comes out for that. Right now Obama has been terrible on gay issues, and its shameful.

That's sad. That thing should have never been written, much less passed.

Oh, and for the Repub WHARRGARBL, some of which I already see: not in the least bit regretting my decision to vote for him.

Tatsuma: I'm shocked SHOCKED at this development.

Same thing I was thinking. Doesn't surprise me at all after that quote.

I wish that bill didn't exist.

Attention any partisan GOP: Please submit a non neocon candidate that can stand as a viable leader and create a platform that consists of something more than criticism.

It will be good for us all.

discount sushi: Tatsuma: I'm shocked SHOCKED at this development.

Same thing I was thinking. Doesn't surprise me at all after that quote.

I wish that bill didn't exist.

Actually, you should be surprised. In context, that was a comment about his beliefs, not how he would legislate. He hasn't been horrible on gay issues, but he hasn't been as good as he promised. He was against Prop 8, and I heard him in person say it was "not Christian" to use gays as scapegoats and discriminate against them (not to an über-Lib university, but to a few hundred of African American Baptists).

I'm very disappointed and pretty pissed about this.

Not cool, Obama. Not cool. Not surprising, though...

DamnYankees: Disgraceful. The act, the action, the President's utter weakness on this issue. All of it.

Agreed.

GAT_00: not in the least bit regretting my decision to vote for him.

Shiat, what was the alternative? Like McCain and Palin supported LGBT rights? Although with them in power, most of the country would probably know what it's like to be gay.

PC LOAD LETTER: All congress needs to do is overturn it.

True. And it should be repealed. And UNTIL that time, it is the law, constitutionally passed, so doesn't the Obama Dept. of Justice have to, y'know, defend it?

Dan the Schman: but he hasn't been as good as he promised

What has he done? DADT is still as strong as ever, and he has the power to stop it now afaik.

I'm disappointed.

You're better than this, Obama.

Tatsuma: Dan the Schman: but he hasn't been as good as he promised

What has he done? DADT is still as strong as ever, and he has the power to stop it now afaik.

The Executive Branch of the Federal Government does not have that power, nor does he have the luxury of choosing which laws to enforce. He can, however, set up a little situation where a case is likely to be appealed, and as such, go up the chain to the SCOTUS where the power DOES exist to review a law and, if appropriate, determine said law's Constitutionality.

That or get Congress to put out another act countermanding the first.

Pro-traditional marriage must have been stressed by his buddy, Rev. Wright, for the last 20 years.

Hold on guys. The Department of Justice is supposed to be apolitical. The DoJ has to defend any law passed by Congress. This is for the best. The politicized Justice Department is what got Gonzales in such trouble under Bush.

Umm defending a law in court is not the same thing as believing it is a good law.

It's hypocritical how the people who always complain about "judicial activism" so much also complain when someone tries to support a law on the books that he might not be 100% for.

GAT_00: That's sad. That thing should have never been written, much less passed.

Oh, and for the Repub WHARRGARBL, some of which I already see: not in the least bit regretting my decision to vote for him.

Why? Not being a dick, but what does it take?

Party Boy: Attention any partisan GOP: Please submit a non neocon candidate that can stand as a viable leader and create a platform that consists of something more than criticism.

It will be good for us all.

The Republicans have become the Democrats of 2004.

It would be detrimental to the rule of law if Presidents chose which laws to enforce. Nothing better than a dictatorship if they could just uphold certain laws but not others.

Gay rights will have its day in the sun. Right now all his political capital is going to go to what his administration views as the most pressing issue facing America: Health Care Reform. If we don't get it right this year then we're well and truly farked for the future.

So, sorry, but not everybody is going to get their unicorn just yet. Eventually, but not yet.

Cinaed: Tatsuma: Dan the Schman: but he hasn't been as good as he promised

What has he done? DADT is still as strong as ever, and he has the power to stop it now afaik.

The Executive Branch of the Federal Government does not have that power, nor does he have the luxury of choosing which laws to enforce. He can, however, set up a little situation where a case is likely to be appealed, and as such, go up the chain to the SCOTUS where the power DOES exist to review a law and, if appropriate, determine said law's Constitutionality.

That or get Congress to put out another act countermanding the first.

THIS

Wolf Blitzer is a Substitute Teacher: It would be detrimental to the rule of law if Presidents chose which laws to enforce. Nothing better than a dictatorship if they could just uphold certain laws but not others.

Selective enforcement != dictatorship

I really don't see what the big deal on gay marriage is. The states' rights and libertarians in the Republican Party (if any are still left after Bush) shouldn't have a problem either. This doesn't affect me one way or the other, so why oppress others with your beliefs?

I'm left wondering if Obama's shift on this subject and others isn't some shrewd attempt at leaving the GOP with no legs to stand on and no ground to go to.

If he leans to the center, then all the GOP has to beat him up with is the same ranting whargarbl they've been burning themselves out on since the election.

Or perhaps he's just trying ease the minds of some people while he slips them the stimulus. One thing at a time and all that.

Or maybe he's just a misleading dick.

Jeffrey.Rodriguez: Selective enforcement != dictatorship

Didn't say it did. I said it made us no better. The Executive's job, and this goes back to like 3rd grade civics, is to enforce the laws. Not to enforce some laws. Congress makes laws. The Executive is forced to uphold those laws. That is Rule of Law and Separation of Powers, and it is one of the most important foundations of our Constitution.

Nemo's Brother: I really don't see what the big deal on gay marriage is. The states' rights and libertarians in the Republican Party (if any are still left after Bush) shouldn't have a problem either. This doesn't affect me one way or the other, so why oppress others with your beliefs?

You're expecting the party with "conservative values" to behave like actual conservatives. They don't do that.

GhostFish: I'm left wondering if Obama's shift on this subject and others isn't some shrewd attempt at leaving the GOP with no legs to stand on and no ground to go to.

Having read his books, I don't think Obama gives much of a shiat. Is this just another media narrative? Is it policy? Is it politics? Too lazy to check.

GhostFish: I'm left wondering if Obama's shift on this subject and others isn't some shrewd attempt at leaving the GOP with no legs to stand on and no ground to go to.

You know, I am sick of this argument. There are a lot of people who voted for Republicans because they are racist. Then WTF should we go out on a limb and have a black dude as a candidate? Keep nominating a moderate-conservative Southern White dude. Hey, less legs for GOP to stand on.

Obama is a total douche. I feel dirty for working for his election.

GhostFish: I'm left wondering if Obama's shift on this subject and others isn't some shrewd attempt at leaving the GOP with no legs to stand on and no ground to go to.

If he leans to the center, then all the GOP has to beat him up with is the same ranting whargarbl they've been burning themselves out on since the election.

Or perhaps he's just trying ease the minds of some people while he slips them the stimulus. One thing at a time and all that.

Or maybe he's just a misleading dick.

He has always been anti-gay marriage from my understanding. I remember him saying marriage is between a man and woman while still running. He has waffled on a lot of shiat, but that has been pretty consistent. Clinton may have been the last President to not be against gay marriage, but maybe even he was. Hard to tell as I don't think he acted for or against it.

Not to be snarky, but would love to ask Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton their views on it. These are two men who have supposedly been fighting for equal rights their whole lives. I wonder where they stand.

Wolf Blitzer is a Substitute Teacher: Didn't say it did. I said it made us no better. The Executive's job, and this goes back to like 3rd grade civics, is to enforce the laws. Not to enforce some laws. Congress makes laws. The Executive is forced to uphold those laws. That is Rule of Law and Separation of Powers, and it is one of the most important foundations of our Constitution.

You feel the executive branch should have zero latitude in deciding what is constitutional?

Jeffrey.Rodriguez: Wolf Blitzer is a Substitute Teacher: It would be detrimental to the rule of law if Presidents chose which laws to enforce. Nothing better than a dictatorship if they could just uphold certain laws but not others.

Selective enforcement != dictatorship

No but it is a move away from the democratic process. It is bad enough that the president can pardon criminals, essentially overriding the judicial branch, now you want him to have a trump card over the legislative branch by refusing to have the DOJ uphold laws passed in congress.

He's seriously torqued the gay left:

"We are very surprised and deeply disappointed in the manner in which the Obama administration has defended the so-called Defense of Marriage Act against Smelt v. United States, a lawsuit brought in federal court in California by a married same-sex couple asking the federal government to treat them equally with respect to federal protections and benefits. The administration is using many of the same flawed legal arguments that the Bush administration used. These arguments rightly have been rejected by several state supreme courts as legally unsound and obviously discriminatory. "

*snip*


"When President Obama was courting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender voters, he said that he believed that DOMA should be repealed. We ask him to live up to his emphatic campaign promises, to stop making false and damaging legal arguments, and immediately to introduce a bill to repeal DOMA and ensure that every married couple in America has the same access to federal protections.

Signed,

ACLU
GLAD
Lambda Legal
NCLR
HRC
NGLTF"

GhostFish: Nemo's Brother: I really don't see what the big deal on gay marriage is. The states' rights and libertarians in the Republican Party (if any are still left after Bush) shouldn't have a problem either. This doesn't affect me one way or the other, so why oppress others with your beliefs?

You're expecting the party with "conservative values" to behave like actual conservatives. They don't do that.

Apparently not.

Not surprising. Like every Democrat, he needs the GLBT to fork over their time and money, then immediately screws us over when it comes time to put power to conviction.

The GLBT community has NO allies in congress and the sooner we stop looking to them for our rights, the more money and effort we have to help the grassroots movement in the rest of the country.

/rant over

Oh man, that kills me.

Pre-election gays: Let's all vote for the black guy! Surely he'll support us!

Post-election gays: Wait, WHAT?!

Obama's been pretty solidly against gay marriage. How is this a surprise? And IIRC, I think he's even attributed this to his "Christian beliefs". That's like a double slap in the face to the Left.

/Of course, my former congressman voted for DOMA
//he turned out to be gay
///and a pedophile to boot

Well fark me. As a straight male for whom marriage is the farthest thing from his mind but can still pick up any skank and get hitched at the nearest drive through, I can't help but feel deep sympathy for gays who want nothing more than to get married and be happy*. To get so thoroughly rejected by popular opinion, legislators, and the man you killed yourself over to get elected...that ain't right. Still, it could be part of some brilliant human-chess maneuver to to throw opponents off-balance, set up some legal precedents, and get gay marriage rights established on a permanent basis.

Or maybe we were wrong all along and marriage really IS between a man and a woman. You can't be too sure anymore, can you?

/* - even if that does seem like a contradiction in terms.
//This would be an Obamaton criticizing The Messiah. Remember it for next time, nutters.

Cinaed: The Executive Branch of the Federal Government does not have that power, nor does he have the luxury of choosing which laws to enforce. He can, however, set up a little situation where a case is likely to be appealed, and as such, go up the chain to the SCOTUS where the power DOES exist to review a law and, if appropriate, determine said law's Constitutionality.

Yeah... there was a "little situation" where a case was appealed. THIS case. And the douche bag has filed a brief comparing same-sex marriages to incest.

Bush = Obama. Both as liars who have no principles.

Corvus: Umm defending a law in court is not the same thing as believing it is a good law.

That's true. He may believe it's a terrible but Constitutionally valid law, in which case Congress needs to step up and get rid of it.

Raiden333
considering the alternative

THE alternative? Like you only have one choice, Douchebag or Turd Sandwich?

"Freedom isn't simply choosing between options; it's the ability to shape what your options are in the first place."


Party Boy
Attention any partisan GOP: Please submit a non neocon candidate that can stand as a viable leader and create a platform that consists of something more than criticism.

2008 was supposed to be the Democrats' and Progressives' chance to field the absolute dream candidate, because there was no chance in hell that the Republican candidate would ever possibly win. Yet Obama was the best they could do.


What's it going to take to see that no party and no electoral politics are going to result in freedom and equal rights?

DamnYankees: You feel the executive branch should have zero latitude in deciding what is constitutional?

Checks and Balances.
Constitutional Review, not for the Executive.
5th grade Civics.

GhostFish: If he leans to the center, then all the GOP has to beat him up with is the same ranting whargarbl they've been burning themselves out on since the election

And all its going to cost the GLBT community is our civil rights.

Cinaed: Checks and Balances.
Constitutional Review, not for the Executive.
5th grade Civics.

Do you believe you made an argument there or something?

kmramki: Cinaed: The Executive Branch of the Federal Government does not have that power, nor does he have the luxury of choosing which laws to enforce. He can, however, set up a little situation where a case is likely to be appealed, and as such, go up the chain to the SCOTUS where the power DOES exist to review a law and, if appropriate, determine said law's Constitutionality.

Yeah... there was a "little situation" where a case was appealed. THIS case. And the douche bag has filed a brief comparing same-sex marriages to incest.

Bush = Obama. Both as liars who have no principles.

They have principles, they just may not be ones we agree with.

DamnYankees: Right now Obama has been terrible on gay issues, and its shameful.

This shouldn't really surprise anybody.

Black people, as a whole, tend to vote against gay rights and support the more traditional family.

You crackas thought you were getting change.

THAT is what's shameful.

kmramki: Yeah... there was a "little situation" where a case was appealed. THIS case. And the douche bag has filed a brief comparing same-sex marriages to incest.

Bush = Obama. Both as liars who have no principles.

So... you'd prefer Obama exceed the power of his office to appease some of his supporters?

Or would you rather him follow some very explicit rules on this, Constitutional rules.

The SCOTUS gets to handle evaluation of the law.

If Obama disagrees with the law, is it the job of the Justice Department to not enforce the law and not defend it in court?

I mean, I want the DOMA overturned as much as the next guy...but I'd really prefer that the Executive Branch not selectively enforce laws depending on the political slant.

bulldg4life: If Obama disagrees with the law, is it the job of the Justice Department to not enforce the law and not defend it in court?

I mean, I want the DOMA overturned as much as the next guy...but I'd really prefer that the Executive Branch not selectively enforce laws depending on the political slant.

Why should the default position of the Executive branch be to assume every law is constitutional?

DamnYankees: You feel the executive branch should have zero latitude in deciding what is constitutional?

Yes. That's not the job of the Executive.