As more and more of formerly middle america ends up losing their jobs, homes and careers articles like this become more relevant.

don't worry though - the CEO of GM, Chrysler and AIG will never have to live in a homeless shelter thanks to the generous contributions of the US taxpayer!

wake the f*ck up people.

What a shiatty article. Two quotes from some homeless dude. How does he represent the homeless population as a whole?

7of7: What a shiatty article. Two quotes from some homeless dude. How does he represent the homeless population as a whole?

do you know how homeless shelters operate on a day to day basis? 'cause I don't. This guy does. Want to prove him wrong, find a shelter near you and go see what its like.

As someone who has volunteered as the local mission, I'd say this guy is spot-on. It's even worse when the only homeless shelter available to single adults is a mission, where you are required to attend chapel a minimum of an hour per day. Even at a shelter that's being run by a religious organization there are high levels of theft and problems with chronic health such as TB.

People. It's not that hard to volunteer at a homeless shelter. Do it. Then you'll know why the rules are there.

7of7: What a shiatty article. Two quotes from some homeless dude. How does he represent the homeless population as a whole?

Agreed. And at the end of it, all I could think was, "So he's pissed because they don't cater to him?"

And either subby misused the word "draconian," or it means something different than what I've always thought it meant.

"Draconian, eh?"

I like also how all three points basically boil down to the same complaint, you have to stay the whole night. And I kind of have my doubts that they absolutely won't let you leave, likely you just can't come back in and they might not let you in that shelter again at worst.

Why do FARK et al keep linking to content thieves like this?

7of7: What a shiatty article. Two quotes from some homeless dude. How does he represent the homeless population as a whole?

He doesn't. He's articulate, not an adict, and apparently not batshiat insane.

This article is trying to make these guys seem like regular dudes, just have been dealt a bad hand of cards. They are not, they are broken, malfunctioning people. And it does them an injustice to pretend that all they need is an income to become just like you and me.

I'll bet just about anything that if you lost your job, and were totally penniless, that you would somehow avoid becoming a street person.

Don't like it? Don't use it. You can have some more "productive" hours outside and catch some Zzz's in an alley. Then you can learn that charity shouldn't be spurned.

Seriously though -- the folks that run these places probably have enough on their plate than keeping the doors open all hours and letting every junkie in.

I think it's terrible that these people are being forced to stay at these deplorable shelters.

This guy is trying, in a less than articulate way, to explain why people like him don't use shelters. He's actually right, and pretty much hit it on the head. Allow me to explain further, from knowing several more eloquent people who were living in shelters:

1. Arrive early/leave early. Shelters open their doors at a set time, and residents have to be INSIDE by that time, because the doors are closed and locked not too long after. If you're not there, you don't get in, and they don't care why. You found a job that keeps you late? Had to spend time in court uptown? Too bad: you can just sleep on the sidewalk till the next night. With some shelters, miss even a day, and you lose your bed. Same thing in the morning: They throw the people out, and you don't get to come back till nighttime. You're a mother with a bunch of kids? Got the flu? Tough tacos, go to the library.

2. No drugs/alcohol/anything else. What the writer was trying to explain is that most shelters have a zero-tolerance policy. As in NO DRUGS OR ALCOHOL. At all. They search everyone's possessions anytime they enter the facility, regardless of if the resident has any history of abuse in the past or has shown up clean for the last six weeks. If a person smells like alcohol because he had a beer before he got to the shelter, he may be refused admission even if he's not stinking drunk.

3. However, no attempt is made to segregate criminals, junkies, sex offenders, drunks, kids, etc. from each other. Everyone gets tossed in the same room and all treated like the lowest common denominator: You're all crooks, we hate all of you, go lay down and don't bother us. The incidence of violence and assault in shelters is horrifying.

4. There is no personal storage space, even though the residents are acknowledged to be street dwellers who keep all their belongings with them. This is hard to imagine for people with houses; but imagine you had to keep your most priceless possessions with you at all times: At work, at home, traveling from place to place. Shelters refuse to allow residents to bring their belongings into the shelter, but don't provide any kind of secure storage. Would you be happy if you were told you had to park your Lexus fifteen blocks from work because it wasn't convenient for your boss to let you park near the building?

Bathia_Mapes: As someone who has volunteered as the local mission, I'd say this guy is spot-on. It's even worse when the only homeless shelter available to single adults is a mission, where you are required to attend chapel a minimum of an hour per day. Even at a shelter that's being run by a religious organization there are high levels of theft and problems with chronic health such as TB.

In NYC, you're better off in Rikers, than you are at some of the shelters. At least there, they test for TB, and lock up your stuff.
Most people at shelters, have to people hide any belongings they might have, at another location outside.

They don't dare even take off their shoes when they sleep, because the sheer number of incidents of all types of rape, and other acts of violence, and theft at the shelters is astounding.

I personally believe, that the homeless as in Iraq and the United States, should totally be able to live in the empty houses, and steal the copper, sell the aluminum siding as such, since they are not being used, until we can provide them with maps where they can then find other homes which still have copper and aluminum and so forth.

Vote for me.

bones870: Why the fark did this trash get approved? These homeless shelters are run by MISSIONS!! They can choose the rules.

Sleep in a dumpster asshole!!

Subby, you suck. Greenlighter, your worse.


You're a liter. And this is how you complain about a service you get free?

Dude, doesn't cover it. We're gonna have to go with .

This guy runs the joint.





Luckily, there is a large party on the way.


/hot like Smaug's breath

Let them die and decrease the surplus population.

I dont see why more homeless just do not either...

1. Go find abandoned houses, and squat.

2. Get a tent and head to farm country, steal corn and stuff to eat on the side from farmers.

/hot
//very worth the read

eddyatwork: Let them die and decrease the surplus population.

Don't like the homeless shelter? Get drunk, pass out on the sidewalk, and spend the night in a drunk tank.

atomicmask: I dont see why more homeless just do not either...

1. Go find abandoned houses, and squat.

2. Get a tent and head to farm country, steal corn and stuff to eat on the side from farmers.

1) Farmers are more likely to have rifles/shotguns/etc than anyone in the city. Scaring off Meth heads, shroom hunters, etc is quite important.

2) Farmers are more likely to know how to use a gun properly than their city counterparts.

3) The city is a warmer place at night than the farm.

bones870: These homeless shelters are run by MISSIONS!!

Some, but not most, are ran by missions. Most shelters that I've seen, were subcontractors (NYC pays them $90 per person, per night, no exaggeration) for the city.

For that much money, they should be providing a little higher level of care, than they are now.

$90 A DAY?

Hell, I have a 4 bedroom house with central air, broadband, and a full refrigerator in a nice part of the suburbs, and it still doesn't cost me $90 a day to keep up.

atomicmask: I dont see why more homeless just do not either...

1. Go find abandoned houses, and squat.

2. Get a tent and head to farm country, steal corn and stuff to eat on the side from farmers.

About half of them are mentally ill, don't make the best decisions.

/Also, farmers don't take kindly to squatters stealing their crops.

TommyymmoT: most, are ran by missions. Most shelters that I've seen, were subcontractors (NYC pays them $90 per person, per night, no exaggeration) for the city.

That's not a lot of money when you consider city electric and food costs. Heating bills, febreeze, etc. And you actually have to pay some people to work there or there would be days with no one helping out.

free_waffles: atomicmask: I dont see why more homeless just do not either...

1. Go find abandoned houses, and squat.

2. Get a tent and head to farm country, steal corn and stuff to eat on the side from farmers.

1) Farmers are more likely to have rifles/shotguns/etc than anyone in the city. Scaring off Meth heads, shroom hunters, etc is quite important.

2) Farmers are more likely to know how to use a gun properly than their city counterparts.

3) The city is a warmer place at night than the farm.

All very true, but a large portion of the country is abandoned farmland. Finding an old run down farm house is pritty easy and converting it into livable conditions would be hard, but possible. Plus tons of seclusion and land to grow food on. also building a fire would probably be easier then huddling on a stoop in winter.

Uh, guys, while I agree that if people don't want to use services offered, they simply don't have to, I don't think the homeless guy being quoted was just ranting about his poor treatment. All I saw was him explaining why he chose to do exactly as you've asked--not use the offered shelter. For the most part, I don't find fault with his reasons.

Like going around the corner for a coffee in a cafe and looking for work or some other way to earn money using the wifi.

Homeless people have laptops?

Weaver95: 7of7:do you know how homeless shelters operate on a day to day basis? 'cause I don't. This guy does. Want to prove him wrong, find a shelter near you and go see what its like.

I have one two minutes from me - it's a Christian mission, and they allow alcohol. Presumably because people will accept Jeebus better whilst pissed.

The surrounding area suffers from this policy, here's one of the residents doing fark-worthy things only last week. (new window)

TommyymmoT: Bathia_Mapes: As someone who has volunteered as the local mission, I'd say this guy is spot-on. It's even worse when the only homeless shelter available to single adults is a mission, where you are required to attend chapel a minimum of an hour per day. Even at a shelter that's being run by a religious organization there are high levels of theft and problems with chronic health such as TB.

In NYC, you're better off in Rikers, than you are at some of the shelters. At least there, they test for TB, and lock up your stuff.
Most people at shelters, have to people hide any belongings they might have, at another location outside.

They don't dare even take off their shoes when they sleep, because the sheer number of incidents of all types of rape, and other acts of violence, and theft at the shelters is astounding.

What, is there some unwritten rule in the shelters that you can't rape someone who's sleeping with his shoes on? Like an awful inverse of the college "don't pass out with your shoes on or you're fair game to be sharpie'd" rule? Except with rape, or theft, or even rape instead of getting some crude cartoon dicks scrawled on your face?

MikeFallopian:
What, is there some unwritten rule in the shelters that you can't rape someone who's sleeping with his shoes on? Like an awful inverse of the college "don't pass out with your shoes on or you're fair game to be sharpie'd" rule? Except with rape, or theft, or even rape instead of getting some crude cartoon dicks scrawled on your face?

I suspect it's because kicking and escaping from your attacker are easier with shoes than with bare feet.

My mother ran a shelter for women and children for several years. Most shelters do the best they can, but you have to remember the types of people who use them. Many (not all) have mental illnesses, substance abuse problems, and myrid other diseases. They have a hard time with rules to begin with, and can be very uncivilized.

My mother's shelter wasn't an "emergency" shelter. It usually had the women in it for several weeks, or even months. While there they were required to go to classes on child care, financial management, and not use drugs or alcohol. They couldn't have boyfriends over, mainly because a lot of these women were escaping abusive relationships. They had to look for work. There were a lot of rules, but most of these women managed to get places to live, and back on their feet. I used to help out around there a lot, and it didn't seem that bad.

MikeFallopian: TommyymmoT: Bathia_Mapes: As someone who has volunteered as the local mission, I'd say this guy is spot-on. It's even worse when the only homeless shelter available to single adults is a mission, where you are required to attend chapel a minimum of an hour per day. Even at a shelter that's being run by a religious organization there are high levels of theft and problems with chronic health such as TB.

In NYC, you're better off in Rikers, than you are at some of the shelters. At least there, they test for TB, and lock up your stuff.
Most people at shelters, have to people hide any belongings they might have, at another location outside.

They don't dare even take off their shoes when they sleep, because the sheer number of incidents of all types of rape, and other acts of violence, and theft at the shelters is astounding.

What, is there some unwritten rule in the shelters that you can't rape someone who's sleeping with his shoes on? Like an awful inverse of the college "don't pass out with your shoes on or you're fair game to be sharpie'd" rule? Except with rape, or theft, or even rape instead of getting some crude cartoon dicks scrawled on your face?

It hurts your attacker a lot more to get kicked with a hard shoe than a bare foot.
That said I think that speaks more about the residents than the people running the shelters.

So basically you're saying:

1. You have to show up at a reasonable hour and leave at a reasonable hour, because we want to know that you're not using our charity as a place to crash when you get farked up.
2. We want to know that you're not using our charity as a place to crash when you get farked up.
3. When you're at the homeless shelter, you're with homeless people.

Cue the tiny violins.

I'm a volunteer at a Women and Children's home, so I'm getting a kick.

The shelter I volunteer at has a very strict program: no alcohol, no drugs, no being out past curfew (which is 10 o'clock, I think) unless you have written proof it's for your job.

Speaking of jobs, you must have and maintain a job for at least 30 hours a week. You must obtain this employment w/in two weeks (the shelter helps find work for you), and must keep it unless you find another job.

No men visiting the house, either. Ever.

A certain percentage of the woman's income is taken by the shelter and kept in a savings fund to give to them when they leave (for use for a security deposit for an apartment).


And it's the best damn shelter I've ever known because of those rules. You're homeless for a reason. You need to learn personal responsibility and that means learning to follow the rules of a place you are leeching off of. Don't like it? Get a job and move out.

butcher71: MikeFallopian:
What, is there some unwritten rule in the shelters that you can't rape someone who's sleeping with his shoes on? Like an awful inverse of the college "don't pass out with your shoes on or you're fair game to be sharpie'd" rule? Except with rape, or theft, or even rape instead of getting some crude cartoon dicks scrawled on your face?

I suspect it's because kicking and escaping from your attacker are easier with shoes than with bare feet.

It's because they'll actually be stolen, even if they're not that good.
Also, you DO NOT want to walk on those floors in socks, or bare feet.

"Vanetia" wins the thread.

Took the words right outta my mouth.

atomicmask: I dont see why more homeless just do not either...

1. Go find abandoned houses, and squat.

2. Get a tent and head to farm country, steal corn and stuff to eat on the side from farmers.

What magical land do you come from where those don't happen? Abandoned buildings and houses often have homeless in them, if its in a strategic area (IE near food/water).

Stealing fresh fruit and vegetables does happen already, but unless, again, you live in some kind of magical land, the harvest isn't 24/7 all 12 months of the year. Homeless can't just pitch a tent or find a cave and hibernate during winter.

The place I work uses what's known as a pretty radical model--"Housing first."

We pretty much take people directly off the streets, regardless of drug or alcohol problems and many mental disabilities, and throw them right the hell into their own apartments, rent-free.

Pisses the city off, especially since it's cheaper than night-to-night missions and city shelters.

atomicmask: free_waffles: atomicmask: I dont see why more homeless just do not either...

1. Go find abandoned houses, and squat.

2. Get a tent and head to farm country, steal corn and stuff to eat on the side from farmers.

1) Farmers are more likely to have rifles/shotguns/etc than anyone in the city. Scaring off Meth heads, shroom hunters, etc is quite important.

2) Farmers are more likely to know how to use a gun properly than their city counterparts.

3) The city is a warmer place at night than the farm.

All very true, but a large portion of the country is abandoned farmland. Finding an old run down farm house is pritty easy and converting it into livable conditions would be hard, but possible. Plus tons of seclusion and land to grow food on. also building a fire would probably be easier then huddling on a stoop in winter.

And we all know food can be harvested any day of the year, on any month. It's just like the grocery store, always trucks bringing food to your door each week. I mean, why don't homeless just move out there and reap the magical rewards of mother nature?

TommyymmoT: Bathia_Mapes: As someone who has volunteered as the local mission, I'd say this guy is spot-on. It's even worse when the only homeless shelter available to single adults is a mission, where you are required to attend chapel a minimum of an hour per day. Even at a shelter that's being run by a religious organization there are high levels of theft and problems with chronic health such as TB.

In NYC, you're better off in Rikers, than you are at some of the shelters. At least there, they test for TB, and lock up your stuff.
Most people at shelters, have to people hide any belongings they might have, at another location outside.

They don't dare even take off their shoes when they sleep, because the sheer number of incidents of all types of rape, and other acts of violence, and theft at the shelters is astounding.

I can fully believe that. Until the Eugene Mission built an annex for women and their minor children, any boy 10 years or older had to sleep in the men's dormitory. It's traumatic enough being homeless when you're a child, but then having to sleep in a room full of adult men makes the trauma even worse. The Eugene Mission still needs to work on how they handle people with conditions like diabetes. I know of one woman who needed some juice or candy because she was hypoglycemic and was told she needed to wait until the kitchen opened in the morning. Fortunately she kept making enough of a fuss until someone on the night shift who knew about diabetes helped her, but it could have gone terribly wrong if that staff person hadn't been there.

Vanetia: I'm a volunteer at a Women and Children's home, so I'm getting a kick.

Oh, and, no disrespect, but volunteering at a shelter, and actually working with the homeless on a day-to-day basis are entirely different worlds.

When you put all those extra restrictions on people, you're not treating them like, well...people. You're essentially saying that they need to be punished for some of their life choices...or, worse, that they basically have to grovel (i.e., not drink, not be loud, not curse) or they're not worthy of help.

The headline got my attention. I've always thought of the 19th century as a generally horrible period where the poor suffered inhumane conditions and treatment.

MikeFallopian:

What, is there some unwritten rule in the shelters that you can't rape someone who's sleeping with his shoes on? Like an awful inverse of the college "don't pass out with your shoes on or you're fair game to be sharpie'd" rule? Except with rape, or theft, or even rape instead of getting some crude cartoon dicks scrawled on your face?

I think you missed rape in there..

Dalar:
Stealing fresh fruit and vegetables does happen already, but unless, again, you live in some kind of magical land, the harvest isn't 24/7 all 12 months of the year. Homeless can't just pitch a tent or find a cave and hibernate during winter.

Also... without a vehicle, "the country" is a BIG place.

The population of Detroit has gone from 2.1 million to 800 thousand in the last 20 years, so unless the bulldozers are working overtime, that means there is vacant housing for 1.3 million people.

There are 20+ cities in the "rust belt" in roughly the same shape, so there is housing for all the people who want it, it is just a matter of putting the two together.

In a free economic system, buyer and seller find an equilibruim, unless some outside force comes in and fux up the system.

In this case, the fuccup is the do-gooders who give free housing and food to people who should be out and working, under the misguided impression they are making the world a better place.

Kind of makes you want to do what is necessary to stay out of a homeless shelter, doesn't it?

Weaver95: 7of7: What a shiatty article. Two quotes from some homeless dude. How does he represent the homeless population as a whole?

do you know how homeless shelters operate on a day to day basis? 'cause I don't. This guy does. Want to prove him wrong, find a shelter near you and go see what its like.

1) Yep, he's got the straight skinny.

2) You won't get investigative reporting from the internet. Stop pretending that you want arguments and evidence. you don't want to pay for newspapers, 7of7, then you get this.

IonBeam2: Kind of makes you want to do what is necessary to stay out of a homeless shelter, doesn't it?

Yep. Because being sane, never having a substance abuse problem, never running into any financial difficulties, never losing a job for reasons you couldn't control, never having bad judgment, never getting arrested, and always having a social support system are just so easy to manage, right?

Yeah. Right.