wingnut: diplomacy never works. diplomacy never works. diplomacy never works.

I'm sure they exist, but none of the lesbians I've ever met are of the man-hating variety.

Wingnut butthurt is not to be denied!!!! Our 20% of the American electorate is a majority!!!!111

Seriously. We all know the only way to convince Islamic people you are right is to call them evil.

DamnYankees: Seriously. We all know the only way to convince Islamic people you are right is to call them evil.

Before and after you bomb them.

... isn't it possible to believe that a mere speech in Cairo that didn't really say anything that hasn't been said before by the previous American Presidents isn't going to end up rebuffing the Islamic extremist lies without being partisan?

You know, it's quite hard to change the mind of religious fanatics, I would know, I play one on tv and I doubt that they are suddenly going to drop their extremism after a single speech.

I doubt a single pro-Jihad supporter went "You know what, that Obama and the United States.. they are all right after all!" after the speech.

Still, it's the right way to go and we might wear them down a little after many many speeches, but just talking isn't going to amount to much in the short run with the extremists. It will however, have an effect on the moderates. Sadly, those moderates rarely rise up and stop the extremists from engaging in their anti-Western activities.

/Then again, doing that is a good recipe to end up dying a horrible death, so I can see where they are coming from

"Cohee!" Just like that, "Cohee!"

Tatsuma: ... isn't it possible to believe that a mere speech in Cairo that didn't really say anything that hasn't been said before by the previous American Presidents isn't going to end up rebuffing the Islamic extremist lies without being partisan?

You know, it's quite hard to change the mind of religious fanatics, I would know, I play one on tv and I doubt that they are suddenly going to drop their extremism after a single speech.

I doubt a single pro-Jihad supporter went "You know what, that Obama and the United States.. they are all right after all!" after the speech.

Still, it's the right way to go and we might wear them down a little after many many speeches, but just talking isn't going to amount to much in the short run with the extremists. It will however, have an effect on the moderates. Sadly, those moderates rarely rise up and stop the extremists from engaging in their anti-Western activities.

/Then again, doing that is a good recipe to end up dying a horrible death, so I can see where they are coming from

It's not about winning over the extremists.


It's about not creating more.

The other three are figments of your farking imagination!

Tatsuma: ... isn't it possible to believe that a mere speech in Cairo that didn't really say anything that hasn't been said before by the previous American Presidents strawman isn't going to end up rebuffing the Islamic extremist lies without being partisan?

Sure. It just makes you look like a moran.

Noted Libtard David Horowitz (he writes for some paper called the Jerusalem Post, yea, I never heard of it either) had this to say:

"Conservatives will make a great mistake if they fail to see this speech for what it was, and treat it as another round in the partisan food fight. It was not an appeasement of our enemies. It was a forthright statement by an American leader in a Muslim capital explaining why America is in fact the global leader in those battles that matter most to people everywhere: freedom, equality, and peace. As conservatives we have many quarrels with the Obama administration -- and we should have.But this speech is not one of them." Linky (new window)

It's a good start, and audaciously hopeful.

Also, if the lie of Islamic extremists had been rebuffed, why is Hizbullah slated to win the next Lebanese elections, and Ahmadinejad is cruising toward an easy re-election in Iran?

Hey he's the new Tutankhamen for the world

DarnoKonrad: Sure. It just makes you look like a moran.

... so what's your point? That it was more than a speech? That it was groundbreaking and said something that wasn't said by Presidents before?

You know, instead of just throwing poo you could actually tell me why you thik I'm wrong.

Tatsuma: Also, if the lie of Islamic extremists had been rebuffed, why is Hizbullah slated to win the next Lebanese elections, and Ahmadinejad is cruising toward an easy re-election in Iran?

Keep assuming this speech was supposed to solve all our problems. The best debate is poisoned debate.

Tatsuma: That it was groundbreaking and said something that wasn't said by Presidents before?

Who was the last President to quote the Koran while speaking to the Arab world from an Arab city?

Tatsuma: DarnoKonrad: Sure. It just makes you look like a moran.

... so what's your point? That it was more than a speech? That it was groundbreaking and said something that wasn't said by Presidents before?

You know, instead of just throwing poo you could actually tell me why you thik I'm wrong.

I'm not throwing poo. I'm point out how you're inventing intentions and then attacking them. Strawman.

Either you're oblivious to what you're doing or obnoxious. Or a little of both.

BladBoy: Noted Libtard David Horowitz (he writes for some paper called the Jerusalem Post, yea, I never heard of it either) had this to say:

I agree that it wasn't appeasement, and it certainly wasn't worse than any speech given to the Muslim world before. In fact, other than going further in showing respect to Islam than previous presidents ("holy Qu'ran", "Islam was revealed", "PBUH" and so on), it's pretty much the standard fare of american messages to the Muslim world.

The only noteworthy point about it is that it was delivered directly in the Middle-East rather than from America.

DamnYankees: Who was the last President to quote the Koran while speaking to the Arab world from an Arab city?

As I said in my last post, this is about the only noteworthy part of this speech, other than that this is very standard.

It's not going to change the hearts and minds of extremists, and I doubt it'll have a huge impact on moderates, so I don't see how it rebuffed the Islamic extremist lies about America.

DarnoKonrad: I'm point out how you're inventing intentions and then attacking them. Strawman.

I'm addressing the headline.

Tatsuma: ... isn't it possible to believe that a mere speech in Cairo that didn't really say anything that hasn't been said before by the previous American Presidents isn't going to end up rebuffing the Islamic extremist lies without being partisan?

You know, it's quite hard to change the mind of religious fanatics, I would know, I play one on tv and I doubt that they are suddenly going to drop their extremism after a single speech.

I don't think anyone made that claim.
I think they said it might have gave the moderates some food for thought. he wasn't speaking to the extremists.

My Republican friend on Obama's new Muslim outreach: "I think it's a great idea. If anyone can do it, he can. And if it doesn't work, it's not like we're out any money."

Hobodeluxe: I don't think anyone made that claim.

... Well that's what the headline seems to claim.

Tatsuma: ... isn't it possible to believe that a mere speech in Cairo that didn't really say anything that hasn't been said before by the previous American Presidents isn't going to end up rebuffing the Islamic extremist lies without being partisan?

I don't think a partisan speech is going to accomplish much at all. A factual speech might be a good start, though, one that preferably doesn't rewrite history and equate Founder ideology with Islam.

DamnYankees: Tatsuma: That it was groundbreaking and said something that wasn't said by Presidents before?

Who was the last President to quote the Koran while speaking to the Arab world from an Arab city?

Franklin Pierce?

Tatsuma: As I said in my last post, this is about the only noteworthy part of this speech, other than that this is very standard.

No. It's not standard. Context matters.

Sort of like saying "I'm sorry" to my girlfriend is standard, but saying "I'm sorry" to a man who has just lost his father is not standard. To simply look at the words and say "they have all been used before" is willfully silly.

Tatsuma: It's not going to change the hearts and minds of extremists, and I doubt it'll have a huge impact on moderates, so I don't see how it rebuffed the Islamic extremist lies about America.

Because you are so in touch with the way moderate Arabs live? What position are you in to make such a claim?

Hobodeluxe: he wasn't speaking to the extremists....

...like Tatsuma.

SynthLord: one that preferably doesn't rewrite history and equate Founder ideology with Islam.

or attribute a quote to the Qu'ran when it comes from the Mishna, hundreds of years before.

Tatsuma: .. Well that's what the headline seems to claim.

no it said it rebuffed their lies. you're twisting it into something that it's not.

extremists :lie,lie,lie

Obama: don't believe their lies

You: OMG he thinks one speech will change the extremists mind!!!010101

Tatsuma: Hobodeluxe: I don't think anyone made that claim.

... Well that's what the headline seems to claim.

The headline says the White House believes the speech counters extremist arguments. It doesn't say anything about changing extremists' minds.

Tatsuma: SynthLord: one that preferably doesn't rewrite history and equate Founder ideology with Islam.

or attribute a quote to the Qu'ran when it comes from the Mishna, hundreds of years before.

Great, here we go

so many lies from this white house, but then again when your ticket to power is an IRS lean......

can Chairman Obama even believe all his lies, or does he just read them of the teleprompter?

DamnYankees: No. It's not standard. Context matters.

What wasn't standard about it except the added respect shown to Islam, and the fact that it was delivered in the Arab world?

DamnYankees: Because you are so in touch with the way moderate Arabs live? What position are you in to make such a claim?

... you claim to be more in touch with the moderate Arabs in the Middle-East than I am? What makes you think that you can make such a claim?

I do think Obama has a positive effect on Arab moderates, polls show that in fact the attitude of Arabs in the Middle-East is slightly improving in regard with America.

I'm just saying that this particular speech is very unlikely to result in a tidal wave of love for America.

Tatsuma: BladBoy: Noted Libtard David Horowitz (he writes for some paper called the Jerusalem Post, yea, I never heard of it either) had this to say:

I agree that it wasn't appeasement, and it certainly wasn't worse than any speech given to the Muslim world before. In fact, other than going further in showing respect to Islam than previous presidents ("holy Qu'ran", "Islam was revealed", "PBUH" and so on), it's pretty much the standard fare of american messages to the Muslim world.

The only noteworthy point about it is that it was delivered directly in the Middle-East rather than from America.

Well it looks like the militants are worried (new window). When did that ever happen with a Bush or Clinton speech?

Tatsuma: What wasn't standard about it except the added respect shown to Islam, and the fact that it was delivered in the Arab world?

That. It matters. You're far too Zionist and Supremacist to actually think so, but Obama's speech wasn't written for you. Thankfully, there aren't too many people who share your political views.

Tatsuma: ... you claim to be more in touch with the moderate Arabs in the Middle-East than I am? What makes you think that you can make such a claim?

I make zero claim to anything. I'm just rebutting your cynicism. You would know that if you read this thread.

Tatsuma: I'm addressing the headline.

The headline is shiat. If we can assume there's any truth to how the article characterizes the White House, let's just take this nugget of factual quoting from FauxNewz:


young Muslims will "get them to take another look at the United States, to understand that much of what they've been hearing about us for so long from the extremists is simply lies."


That doesn't have anything to do with making Hezbollah and Amadinajada our best pals in the whole wide world.

Or as you would say:

Tatsuma: I doubt a single pro-Jihad supporter went "You know what, that Obama and the United States.. they are all right after all!" after the speech.


You're talking past the article.

Hobodeluxe: You: OMG he thinks one speech will change the extremists mind!!!010101

Where I come from, when someone makes a statement and you prove them wrong, they change their mind. So if someone says a lie about America and you prove it's a lie, then he has to change his mind.

Do you think that Islamic extremists in fact know that America really ain't that bad, they just lie about it?

veale728: Great, here we go

What? That's true. That quote from the Qu'ran was directly lifted from Jewish texts, and he quoted it and said it came from the "Holy Qu'ran".

Everyone I know were slightly bemused by this. That was a very stupid (and very minor) error from his speech writer.

Tatsuma: DamnYankees:
I'm just saying that this particular speech is very unlikely to result in a tidal wave of love for America.

No one said it was. But it's a start.

Tatsuma: I'm just saying that this particular speech is very unlikely to result in a tidal wave of love for America.

And no one is saying that

You can't combat religion with rationality; it doesn't even work here in the U.S., much less in Islamic theocracies.

Tatsuma: Hobodeluxe: You: OMG he thinks one speech will change the extremists mind!!!010101

Where I come from, when someone makes a statement and you prove them wrong, they change their mind.


You should follow that example.

winterwhile: so many lies from this white house, but then again when your ticket to power is an IRS lean......

can Chairman Obama even believe all his lies, or does he just read them of the teleprompter?

1/10.

1derful: You can't combat religion with rationality; it doesn't even work here in the U.S., much less in Islamic theocracies.

We should still try.

I cannot forsee how Obama's speech will be able to spin straw into pure 24 karat gold the way Obama supporters are insisting that it will. Sounds too far-fetched.

(*what? nobody said that? well, i'm sure there's some reason i can reach for that will convince me that it was an epic failure of a speech, nothing that hasn't been done before, nothing that will have any affect on the Arab world or Islamic militantcy...)

I cannot forsee how one little speech will have the ability to create faster-than-the-speed-of-light travel the way Obama supporters are insisting that it will.....

Tatsuma: Do you think that Islamic extremists in fact know that America really ain't that bad, they just lie about it?

The speech was not aimed at extremists. That was not the target audience.

It was never intended to get single bitter Muslim clinging to his AK 47 out of cave. Stop claiming it was as a way to be critical.

wanna know how youre at a real tough lesbian bar?

even the pool table doesnt have any balls.

/heard that one yesterday

BladBoy: Well it looks like the militants are worried (new window). When did that ever happen with a Bush or Clinton speech?

If it's true, that's good news. As to whether it happened with Bush, I doubt it, but it probably did with Clinton, maybe not to this degree though.

DamnYankees: That. It matters.

Me: Well, it was a very standard speech, aside from the fact that it was delivered in the Arab world and showed extra respect to Islam:
You: No it wasn't standard.
Me: In what way was it not standard except the extra respect and its location?
You: ... its location! Also you're a racist!

I think I'll stick with discussing TV with you and that's it. By the way:

DamnYankees: You're far too Supremacist

Prove with statements that I consider non-Jews to be inferior through statements I made, or that I consider Jews to be superior to non-Jews, or shut up.

I'm not addressing you until you back that up.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: I cannot forsee how Obama's speech will be able to spin straw into pure 24 karat gold the way Obama supporters are insisting that it will. Sounds too far-fetched.

(*what? nobody said that? well, i'm sure there's some reason i can reach for that will convince me that it was an epic failure of a speech, nothing that hasn't been done before, nothing that will have any affect on the Arab world or Islamic militantcy...)

I cannot forsee how one little speech will have the ability to create faster-than-the-speed-of-light travel the way Obama supporters are insisting that it will.....

You mean it won't solve global warming or feed the poor????

Tatsuma: Where I come from, when someone makes a statement and you prove them wrong, they change their mind.

yeah right. you can't even admit you were spinning the headline to fit your cynical views