If I remember correctly, negatively spun democratic "flip-flops" were one of the reasons Kerry lost the election in 04.

But don't let that whole history thing stand in your way.

If Obama can continue to demonstrate his commitment to everyday Americans, and get results, voters probably won't hold either his flexibility or his flip-flops against him.

explaining that bit to subby would be like teaching your cat how to drive.

if he lets them pass a healthcare reform bill with no public single payer option that flip-flop will cost him dearly with me.

Butt-hurt bad, conservative radio makes it worse.

I will love Obama no matter what. Even if he was muslin. And if he was muslin, I would paint him up as a green meadow and dance around him like I was Julie Andrews.

Never mind the media, it's those awkward biased voters you need to worry about. Damn liberal populace!

What color is the sky in your world, subby?

zymosan [TotalFark] Quote 2009-06-07 09:13:33 AM
If I remember correctly, negatively spun democratic "flip-flops" were one of the reasons Kerry lost the election in 04.

Wins the thread

Subby trolled us good, but: Uuhhh, what? Obsessing about flip flops and never changing your opinion when confronted with reality or changing circumstances has always been more of a right wing trait, not a left wing one.

Sorry, but to be eligible for such praise, the Republicans would first have to flip-flop for the public good at least once.

--He once promised Planned Parenthood that his first act as president would be to sign an abortion-rights bill into law. Now he says it is "not my highest legislative priority."

He did sign some sort of abortion executive order IIRC

--He pledged to gay activists that he would repeal the military's "don't ask, don't tell' policy

'Didn't get to it yet' is not a flipflop. Plus, it's congress that has to do it and with spineless dems and filibustering republicans, it won't be an easy fight.

--He has reinstituted the previous administration's practice of using military commissions to pros-ecute suspected terrorists.

Prosecution is better than no prosecution. As long as its done fairly.

--Perhaps most dramatic and politically perilous, he has decided to withdraw U.S. combat troops from Iraq by next August, a delay of three months from his former timetable.

This is a flipflop... how? There's already an agreement in place (from the Bush era), he's sticking to it. A flipflop would be keeping us there forever like McCain would have done.

I would like to ban the word flip-flop.

Is subby kidding? I would love for Republicans to flip flop on many issues. I would love for them to actually listen to facts and process them in a meaningful manner (i.e. "for the public good"). And as evidenced by this article, there is a media bias- a conservative one.

i see the terrified "conservative" bedwetters are up early.

"Republicans biatching about Democratic flip flops, then doing it themselves in a blatant instance of hypocrisy bad, Democrats saying they can and will change their mind based on new information and then doing just that for the good of the country good."

Isn't that what the headline should have read?

All leaders are contolled by the same power brokers. The New World Order is finally coming online.

"Until now, the world we've known has been a world divided - a world of barbed wire and concrete block, conflict and cold war. Now, we can see a new world coming into view. A world in which there is the very real prospect of a new world order."

George H.W. Bush 1990

"Any world order that elevates one nation over another will fail.."

Barack Obama 2009

President Obama has been shifting gears, and reversing some of his policies, at a remarkable rate.
Stopped reading here.

And flip flop is a Republican term subby. Stop lying.

Where do all these liars come from? when did that become socially acceptable?

zymosan: If I remember correctly, negatively spun democratic "flip-flops" were one of the reasons Kerry lost the election in 04.

But don't let that whole history thing stand in your way.



My uncle actually owned a pair of "Genuine Hanoi John Flip-Flops!"

ilambiquated: Where do all these liars come from? when did that become socially acceptable?

is it really lying if they are so stupid they actually believe eachother ?

Yeah seeing Reverend Wright screaming GOD DAMN AMERICA on every network for 3 weeks straight really reinforces the "librul mediah hurrr" claim.

There's been an awful lot of discussion lately about how the media reports the news. You would almost think that somebody wants to avoid discussing the actual news, itself.
Now who would that be? :D

When did Democrats ever complain about flip-flopping Republicans?

YET AGAIN, a conservatard headline gets the basic stuff wrong.

Wake me when Obama puts out 5 years of...

"Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, Stay the course, ... It was never about staying the course."

". . . once, when my feet were bare, and I had only the means of obtaining flip flops. I came to the chief of Kufah in a state of much dejection, and saw there a pundit who had an argument with no leg to stand on. I returned thanks to God and acknowledged his mercies, and enduring my lack of patience in listening as long as I could... lost a flip flop when I kicked the smarmy pundit in the azz. . ."

jake3988: --He once promised Planned Parenthood that his first act as president would be to sign an abortion-rights bill into law. Now he says it is "not my highest legislative priority."

He did sign some sort of abortion executive order IIRC


not only that, but I'm pretty damn sure it really is not his highest priority at the moment.


Hairsplitting Republicans are splitting hairs...

Yankees Team Gynecologist: When did Democrats ever complain about flip-flopping Republicans?


That is because Democrats never complain. No Democrat politician, campaigner, voter or blogger has ever complained about anything.
Not once.

If the last 8 years proved anything, then yes, yes that is the case.

crank: Is subby kidding? I would love for Republicans to flip flop on many issues. I would love for them to actually listen to facts and process them in a meaningful manner (i.e. "for the public good"). And as evidenced by this article, there is a media bias- a conservative one.

Wait.... So what you're saying is that when Obama made campaign promises about the subjects in the article, he didn't have the facts on them first? And now that he's President he was able to change his mind based on information not previously made available to him? As a United States Senator? His mind changed on gays in the military because of information made only to the executive branch? Legislators are being kept in the dark about certain aspects of abortion, and now that he knows better he's changing his mind? And changing his mind about matters of national security - you mean to tell me that the president has access to intelligence that's not available to the intelligence committees in the Senate?

Or could it be that maybe, just maybe, saying certain things will get you elected, and acting on them will get you not elected for a second term?

Let me translate the headline into English:

"DUHRRRRRRRRRRRRRR HNYURR HUR HNURRRR DURRR DAH! DAH DDDDURRRRR!"

The only thing that Obama has done that smells of flip flop is basically following the Bush Administration lead on dealing with the clusterfark that is Gitmo, in terms of how to deal with the prisoners held there.

Otherwise... he's not doing too bad. That one thing does stick in my mind, but hey, he's hardly through his first year, not a bad level of performance thus far.

Mordant: ilambiquated: Where do all these liars come from? when did that become socially acceptable?

is it really lying if they are so stupid they actually believe eachother ?

Well I think you do have a certain obligation to check your facts.

Hobodeluxe: if he lets them pass a healthcare reform bill with no public single payer option that flip-flop will cost him dearly with me.

Obama never promised single-payer. His "Universal" Health Care plan was basically an expansion of Medicare and Medicaid to ensure that no one "slips between the cracks." I, too, would prefer a single-payer system, but that's not what he promised.

ilambiquated: Mordant: ilambiquated: Where do all these liars come from? when did that become socially acceptable?

is it really lying if they are so stupid they actually believe eachother ?

Well I think you do have a certain obligation to check your facts.

Fact-checking seems to be hurting the Republican Party a lot.

Republicans that flip-flop are traitors to the cause, and weaken the grass roots movement to take by America. By force if necessary.

Democrats that flip-flop are influenced by changing circumstances. A mighty tree that will not bend in the wind, will snap.

Even my most liberal friends admit to me daily that they don't care what Obama does they support him. When I ask why they would do something that illogical they say the country NEEDS him to succeed. This level of thinking is an insult to anyone with a brain. The press lets Obama stutter and stammer daily and change his positions on issues without as much as a question. Basically we are admitting as a society that this man is not qualified and to question him somehow destroys the hope that he was going to be great. No true thinker can look at what has happened since Obama has taken charge and HONESTLY believe that we are on the right track. By patronizing Obama we are admitting that he is way over his head. To allow this empty suit free reign is an insult to anyone who cares about our great country.

We had 8 years of stasis as a supposed virtue. Flip-flopping is not the epithet the Right intended -- and a piss poor metric when it's already a term spun out of whole cloth.


oh, and fark bias. I'm sick of that shiat. Bias is a meaningless term.


The only question is whether the said piece of journalism is objective or pure shiat per FOX noise as the gold standard.

Fair, balanced, biased, are all goddamn new-speak to obfuscate the fact some people enjoy not thinking.

God the "liberal media" whine again

Are you cons ever gonna accept responsibility for being such fark ups or is it always gonna be somebody elses fault.

rjkline: Even my most liberal friends admit to me daily that they don't care what Obama does they support him.

Even my most conservative friends admit to me daily that they don't care what Obama does they oppose him.


Why even waste time typing this garbage?

Where does that article say republican flip-flops are bad?

DarnoKonrad: rjkline: Even my most liberal friends admit to me daily that they don't care what Obama does they support him.

Even my most conservative friends admit to me daily that they don't care what Obama does they oppose him.


Why even waste time typing this garbage?

Trolls need attention. They can't get it by telling the truth, being accurate, intelligent, creative or reasonable.

rjkline: To allow this empty suit (Obama) free reign is an insult to anyone who cares about our great country.

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Yeah good call on idenfifying the empty suits there. If only we had more substantial intellects in politics like Bush we would be much better off.

Hick: Yankees Team Gynecologist: When did Democrats ever complain about flip-flopping Republicans?


That is because Democrats never complain. No Democrat politician, campaigner, voter or blogger has ever complained about anything.
Not once.

And our first goal post mover of the thread is Hick! Congrats buddy! Keep on fighting that good fight with dishonesty and deflection!

Where's the WAHHHHMBULANCE?

rjkline: Even my most liberal friends admit to me daily that they don't care what Obama does they support him. When I ask why they would do something that illogical they say the country NEEDS him to succeed. This level of thinking is an insult to anyone with a brain. The press lets Obama stutter and stammer daily and change his positions on issues without as much as a question. Basically we are admitting as a society that this man is not qualified and to question him somehow destroys the hope that he was going to be great. No true thinker can look at what has happened since Obama has taken charge and HONESTLY believe that we are on the right track. By patronizing Obama we are admitting that he is way over his head. To allow this empty suit free reign is an insult to anyone who cares about our great country.



I live in one of the most liberal states in the Union, go to school in another, and work in DC. And I've never met anyone who would support Obama mindlessly. Mindless support is a characteristic of Republicans, most of whom are too terrified by the prospect of independent thought to dip a toe in the pool of politics. They watch TV pundits that agree with them, listen to radio that tells them what they want to hear, and vote for whomever they're told.

I support Obama because I think his policies are the only way we're going to get out of the recession in a timely fashion. The Republican economic plan comes from people who honestly believe the New Deal prolonged the recession, and that kind of fevered frothing reality-ignoring madness is a danger to our country and our livelihoods.

superstevo: Wins the thread

How could that possibly win the thread, I thought Kerry lost because of those evil Swift Boaters, not his whole "I was for the war before I was against it" idiocy. That just helped seal the deal.

Hobodeluxe: if he lets them pass a healthcare reform bill with no public single payer option that flip-flop will cost him dearly with me.

What filpflop? He never supported Single Payer health care.

Cinaed: The only thing that Obama has done that smells of flip flop is basically following the Bush Administration lead on dealing with the clusterfark that is Gitmo, in terms of how to deal with the prisoners held there.

Otherwise... he's not doing too bad. That one thing does stick in my mind, but hey, he's hardly through his first year, not a bad level of performance thus far.

I'm willing to live with it. He wants to release the non-dangerous people as they are processed and have a place to send htem, and those that are not able to be released he wants legal trials for. A small sliver - those who are dangerous but who's legal process has been so corrupted that the standard court would never give the people or the accused a fair trial, he's going to use the most open possible version of Military Tribunal. Sucks, but blame Bush. His desire to shove bamboo under brown people's fingernails caused this.

Submitter is the douche above all other douche-nozzles..

Satanic_Hamster: Subby trolled us good, but: Uuhhh, what? Obsessing about flip flops and never changing your opinion when confronted with reality or changing circumstances has always been more of a right wing trait, not a left wing one.

I've never understood why anyone would think holding the same beliefs and views regardless of new facts is a good thing.

Well the Progressives do have Obama's cawk so far down their throat's that they can't see his feet so it's no wonder his flip-flops don't bother them. Just go ahead and glance up at 90% of the above comments to see the slobbering.

I actually don't mind that he has "flip-flopped" on certain things. I just wish the Progressives would just admit Obama is just like every other politician and the guy really isn't anything special.