Damn racist Powell criticizing The Chosen One!

noting that Bush also wanted to close the prison but already knew what Obama has learned: It's easier to say than to do

No, Bush didn't want to close it- All he wanted was the bad press to go away.

Obama has given an order to close it, which is a millions times more than what Bush did.

Wow! That's ONE! ONE thing that Bush knew and Obama has learned.

In the entire history of the Bush administration, did Bush once hint that Clinton might have known something Bush did not?

Of course not, because had he done so, Cheney would have slapped him down.

He (Powell) even said that President Bush wanted to close the prison, but could not figure out how to- a point he used to answer criticism from former Vice President Dick Cheney.

No, Bush didn't want to close it- All he wanted was the bad press to go away.

Obama has given an order to close it, which is a millions times more than what Bush did.

-0/10.

The Bush administration left the White House having given the President and the government powers like it never had before.

You fools really thought that the Democrats would sweep in and just cancel all of this, instead of using them for their own ends?

They will go down the same paths, extending the powers of the government further, until the Republicans take over again, and repeat the scenario.

The government will never shrink or give back temporary powers it was once granted.

The only reason it is more easily said than done is that nobody has the political balls to do the right thing. This group of people who can't be prosecuted, but that we nevertheless know are evil, should be released. We have no legal reason to hold them. Unfortunately, the political shiatstorm for doing so will be directed at Obama, even though it is the right thing to do. Bush is the one who should be blamed, however, because he is the one who created the situation in the first place. Much like a dirty or incompetent cop who screws up a murder investigation so badly that the murderer goes free.

Everyone in those prison cells gets shoved out the front gate and booted into the cuban countryside.

problem solved!

turn about is fair play Castro....

skinnycatullus: The only reason it is more easily said than done is that

the cliché of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" is true, clichés exist for a reason, Obama is a politician and no different from others, and now that he's not on the campaign trail and in the White House, he does what he wants and doesn't need to pander for another 3 years

Tatsuma: skinnycatullus: The only reason it is more easily said than done is that

the cliché of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" is true, clichés exist for a reason, Obama is a politician and no different from others, and now that he's not on the campaign trail and in the White House, he does what he wants and doesn't need to pander for another 3 years

there's also the 'OMG what have I gotten myself into' factor. I think Obama and his people got their first insiders look at just what the job REALLY entails and it sucked the wind outta their sails for a bit.

plus, let's face it - Obama has a lot on his plate right now. Bush left the economy in a mess, gave Obama a two front war to fight AND pissed off damn near everyone in the world. Then he left Obama the keys and hightailed it to his ranch to crack open a couple cold ones and collect his retirement pay.

Powell, Bush, and especially Cheney need to sit back and have a nice big cup of STFU.

I so wish Obama would just say, "Look, we tried it your way for many years and we all see how that turned out. Now we're going to do it my way. So kindly take a seat in the back and be quiet. Mkay, thanks."

Weaver95: there's also the 'OMG what have I gotten myself into' factor. I think Obama and his people got their first insiders look at just what the job REALLY entails and it sucked the wind outta their sails for a bit.

Yeah, the first speech he gets to hear as a President. Which probably goes along the lines of:

Staff: "Please, have a seat, Mr. President, we'll explain to you how the world really works"
*50 minutes later*
President: "... aw crap."

Tatsuma: how the world really works

Take your fascist morals back to Israel. You're just worried Obama's going to start treating Israel like every other country.

"how it really works" is such a bullshiat copout

And, it annoys me that people always seem to have that some where in their rationalization for torture, holding people indefinitely without trial, or other beyond despicable acts.

Civil_War2_Time
He gave the order to close it before he learned what was involved, and congress reminded him of that.

bulldg4life: "how it really works" is such a bullshiat copout

and

GAT_00: Take your fascist morals back to Israel.

It's not "fascist morals" or a "bullshiat copout" to realize that what we see in the open and what happens behind the scenes is often wildly different.

For example, take previously very close ties between the Indonesian and Israeli government, or the King of Morocco. Back in the 60s-70s, they had very scathing words toward Israel, yet behind the scene there was huge collaboration, deals, trade, etc...

For anyone else who didn't have access to the classified information back then, there was no way to know what was really happening

GAT_00: You're just worried Obama's going to start treating Israel like every other country.

Treating steadfast allies with a population about as pro-American as you can get sure sounds like a good policy!

king_nacho

One gave the order to get rid of it with what amounted to shear rhetoric. And, as you mentioned, he got smacked down handily for not having a workable plan.

The other was clueless how to close it, and was advised "shhh" before he opened his mouth to utter an unrealistic quick-fix.

I was commenting on how someone that (I suspect) was not involved with meetings between Powell and Bush, and blindly said Dubya had never said or wished such things.

Weaver95: there's also the 'OMG what have I gotten myself into' factor. I think Obama and his people got their first insiders look at just what the job REALLY entails and it sucked the wind outta their sails for a bit.

I think it's more that the Gitmo situation is a Gordian knot with no easy solution. We have guilty people there who can't go to trial because the Cheney torture policy all but guarantees mistrials. We have innocent people there who will walk free hating us. We have foreign nationals who will be released only to be immediately arrested and tortured by their home countries. We can't keep them there because Gitmo has become a symbol of the dark heart of America, but we can't bring them here because the American people think we're dealing with the Joker and Lex Luthor who can break out of federal supermax prisons at will.

The unpopular but right thing to do would be to put them in American prisons, put them on trial, accept the ruling of the courts and then deal with the fallout. It would be painful, but it's the only way to regain our moral bearings.

And let's not forget that Rove and Cheney were the real co-Presidents over the past years. Bush was the face of the party right-wingers felt comfortable with.

It's easier for me to rape and murder your children than to actually force myself to stop. It's perfectly justifiable.

I think it's more that the Gitmo situation is a Gordian knot with no easy solution

The whole point about the Gordian knot is that there WAS an easy solution - people just didnt see it.

In this case the solution is: close prison, move inmates to Supermax prisons on US soil, try them. The End.

Tatsuma: The Bush administration left the White House having given the President and the government powers like it never had before.

You fools really thought that the Democrats would sweep in and just cancel all of this, instead of using them for their own ends?

They will go down the same paths, extending the powers of the government further, until the Republicans take over again, and repeat the scenario.

The government will never shrink or give back temporary powers it was once granted.



I just agreed with something Tat said. It hurts my soul.

What's so difficult? Load them on a C130, strap a chute on each one, and kick them out over WhereverTheHellTheyCameFromistan.

It's not like the area isn't already filled with people that want to cause us grief. A few dozen more will make no difference, and with the death rate being what it is in those places, most of those guys won't be around in a decade anyway.

Or just shoot the poor bastards. We had no trouble slaughtering thousands of them, why the hell are we keeping them as pets?

Tatsuma:
GAT_00: You're just worried Obama's going to start treating Israel like every other country.

Treating steadfast allies with a population about as pro-American as you can get sure sounds like a good policy!

Yeah, USA ought to send shiatloads of money to Canada!

GAT_00: Tatsuma: how the world really works

Take your fascist morals back to Israel. You're just worried Obama's going to start treating Israel like every other country.



Popcorn time.

Mentat: The unpopular but right thing to do would be to put them in American prisons, put them on trial, accept the ruling of the courts and then deal with the fallout. It would be painful, but it's the only way to regain our moral bearings.

Such trials, in some cases, would be theater of the absurd. Random-ass Afghan. Accused of 'terrorism' by a neighbor who always wanted his pasture (plus, the $1000 reward cash from the Americans).

Are we going to find the neighbor who sent him up? Good luck, buddy.

So, what do we have. Well, under waterboarding, he says he was Osama bin Laden's caddy on alternate Saturdays. He also said he once married the Empress of Japan. Are we going on that.

We don't have crap on plenty of people there. In some cases (the Uighurs) the DoD has formally admitted that, and held them anyway, having no alternatives.

Civil_War2_Time: He (Powell) even said that President Bush wanted to close the prison, but could not figure out how to- a point he used to answer criticism from former Vice President Dick Cheney.

No, Bush didn't want to close it- All he wanted was the bad press to go away.

Obama has given an order to close it, which is a millions times more than what Bush did.

-0/10.

...aaaaaaand ignore.

/For even thinking this is trolling.
//Also for someone who decides that losing a presidential election to a black man calls for open revolt.

Why again do we send so much cash to Israel?

Tatsuma: For anyone else who didn't have access to the classified information back then, there was no way to know what was really happening

And neither do you. Which actually doesn't matter. You people do stuff like this and you wonder why the Arabs hate you so much.

Why again do we send so much cash to Israel?

The official reason is because it's the only proper democracy in the region, the actual reason is we feel guilty that we let Hitler kill white people for a long time.

AmazingRuss: What's so difficult? Load them on a C130, strap a chute on each one, and kick them out over WhereverTheHellTheyCameFromistan.

It's not like the area isn't already filled with people that want to cause us grief. A few dozen more will make no difference, and with the death rate being what it is in those places, most of those guys won't be around in a decade anyway.

Or just shoot the poor bastards. We had no trouble slaughtering thousands of them, why the hell are we keeping them as pets?



What about all the torturers' families that will go hungry if we cut their jobs!

Think of the children!

Justice used to mean something. It doesn't anymore. I miss it.

DeRosso: Yeah, USA ought to send shiatloads of money to Canada!

Canadians the most pro-American people on earth? Are you having a laugh?

GAT_00: You people

ghare: Why again do we send so much cash to Israel?

That's the reason:

Ima have to go with Weaver. Reverse Mariel. The Canadians love Cuba so much even they can agree with this one.

GAT_00: You people do stuff like this

You people? Good thing you're a raging libbie, because if you were a conservative who used "you people" you'd be labeled a racist.

You know what would've been really easy? Not opening it up in the first place. I'm sure someone pointed that out before the first prisoner was ever sent there.

/Pandora unavailable for comment.

Weaver95: Tatsuma: skinnycatullus: The only reason it is more easily said than done is that

the cliché of "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" is true, clichés exist for a reason, Obama is a politician and no different from others, and now that he's not on the campaign trail and in the White House, he does what he wants and doesn't need to pander for another 3 years

there's also the 'OMG what have I gotten myself into' factor. I think Obama and his people got their first insiders look at just what the job REALLY entails and it sucked the wind outta their sails for a bit.

plus, let's face it - Obama has a lot on his plate right now. Bush left the economy in a mess, gave Obama a two front war to fight AND pissed off damn near everyone in the world. Then he left Obama the keys and hightailed it to his ranch to crack open a couple cold ones and collect his retirement pay.

Does the President have a time-machine that I am unaware of? Because last time I checked this sub-prime non-sense started long before Bush was in office....

As for the War...well we're not really fighting a war...we're policing the world. By tomorrow morning any city or country could be converted to a parking lot (and that's without the use of nukes). The US is trying to fight a war AND minimize casualties, which is an honorable thing. But the Brits tried a similar strategy a few hundred years ago...

I haven't heard from Powell much in the media. I hope he's changed his mind about running for office(Pres, Senator, whatever) because he's one of the most respected men in the US(and to some degree worldwide) for the past 20 years or so. We need that type of person in government.

Tigger: In this case the solution is: close prison, move inmates to Supermax prisons on US soil, try them. The End.

Hey, that's a great idea. I wonder why someone didn't mention that earlier in the thread.

skinnycatullus: The only reason it is more easily said than done is that nobody has the political balls to do the right thing. This group of people who can't be prosecuted, but that we nevertheless know are evil, should be released. We have no legal reason to hold them. Unfortunately, the political shiatstorm for doing so will be directed at Obama, even though it is the right thing to do. Bush is the one who should be blamed, however, because he is the one who created the situation in the first place. Much like a dirty or incompetent cop who screws up a murder investigation so badly that the murderer goes free.

This.

How anyone could have thought that bringing these guys into US jurisdiction was a good idea boggles the mind. But now that we're in this mess, the correct thing to do is try them or release them. Isn't "preventative detention" one of the kinds of thing we've always condemned petty dictators for?

Just let them go. Worst case: we have to deal with another 240 terrorists. That's not really a lot considering the size of the opposition.

Things that make me laugh about liberals.

Anything bush did...BAD!
Obama regurgitating the same thing bush did...bamassiah.

skipjack: Things that make me laugh about liberals.

Anything bush did...BAD!
Obama regurgitating the same thing bush did...bamassiah.

Affirmative Action mandates that we dare not question Black Jesus or we are to be branded a racist....

Civil_War2_Time: He (Powell) even said that President Bush wanted to close the prison, but could not figure out how to- a point he used to answer criticism from former Vice President Dick Cheney.

No, Bush didn't want to close it- All he wanted was the bad press to go away.

Obama has given an order to close it, which is a millions times more than what Bush did.

-0/10.

Uh... his statement was accurate, troll.

buk110: Affirmative Action The PATRIOT ACT mandates that we dare not question Black Jesus anything the Bush Administration did or we are to be branded a racist traitor....

ghare: Why again do we send so much cash to Israel?

To piss you off. Really, I hate to be the one to break it to you but me and the rest of the country got together and decided the best way to piss you off would be to send a ton of money to Isreal. Just knowing the type of guy you are we knew it would really grind your gears. Thanks for the lulz.

Tatsuma: The Bush administration left the White House having given the President and the government powers like it never had before.

You fools really thought that the Democrats would sweep in and just cancel all of this, instead of using them for their own ends?

They will go down the same paths, extending the powers of the government further, until the Republicans take over again, and repeat the scenario.

The government will never shrink or give back temporary powers it was once granted.

And this is relevant to the discussion how, exactly?

bhcompy: I haven't heard from Powell much in the media. I hope he's changed his mind about running for office(Pres, Senator, whatever) because he's one of the most respected men in the US(and to some degree worldwide) for the past 20 years or so. We need that type of person in government.

Whoa, let's not take a great man and drag him down to our level!

WFern

Uh... his statement was accurate, troll.

I'll sponsor you for a year if you can prove what I said to be wrong. I was saying the person who DNRTFA was wrong in their comments, and I reiterated what Powell had said.

I'm drinking, too...but my brain can still comprehend.

This thread needs that "YOU CRACKAS THOUGHT YOU WERE GETTIN CHANGE" photo.