Those lawns don't pay for themselves.

Yeah, the college president needs his private jet to take his family on vacation.

Article Headline: College conundrum: Less out-of-state students

If they went to college, they'd know it's "fewer out-of-state students". Unless out-of-state students are losing weight.

Number41: Article Headline: College conundrum: Less out-of-state students

If they went to college, they'd know it's "fewer out-of-state students". Unless out-of-state students are losing weight.

Actually, the philosophy department has disproved reality. There really are less students.

Number41: Article Headline: College conundrum: Less out-of-state students

If they went to college, they'd know it's "fewer out-of-state students". Unless out-of-state students are losing weight.

Amputee applicants.

It depends: I have two kids going out-of-state to large Div 1 universities and their tuition is almost identical to what in-state costs here in Ohio.

Of course, all of the Big Ten schools cost way more than they should, but then the east coast schools cost even more.

I suspect it boils down to lack of state support and heavy spending on buildings and facilities.

Your mother attends college.

Drafting? They've already been sent out. I deleted mine but it went something along the lines of "massive state budget shortfall...and we'll be expected to bear our share of the burden...I'm creating a new position for myself: I now need to okay all monetary decisions made at the dept. level...will try not to pass too much of the burden on to you [sucks to be you incoming classes]..."

My school (it's one of the larger ones in FL) just announced a 15% increase, and even with that, our out-of-state tuition is less than some states' in-state tuition. Now, it's FL, so we've got that going against us, but hey, we're cheaper!

Oh, and we just got permission to charge $25 per credit hour more for online courses. So, you can pay more AND get a crappier quality class!

betona: It depends: I have two kids going out-of-state to large Div 1 universities and their tuition is almost identical to what in-state costs here in Ohio.

Of course, all of the Big Ten schools cost way more than they should, but then the east coast schools cost even more.

I suspect it boils down to lack of state support and heavy spending on buildings and facilities.

Ohio State was actually pretty good for out of state students (not that it particularly helps you of course), but I'm not familiar with the rest of the state's schools policies. They're concerned with Ohio's "brain drain" and were pretty desperate to snag out of state kids. I got an out of state tuition remission/scholarship based solely on my ACT scores (and I didn't need to do anything to maintain it performance wise that I could tell; nothing was explicitly stated and none of my "whoops" quarters got it revoked).

/still left Ohio when I was done
//but come back to do research

i already got that memo from my school.

/bastardos.

My father-in-law has worked for MU for at least 20 years(not a teacher, professor, custodian OR a president)...his insurance is slowly becoming nonexsistent, while every year the president gets a raise to sit on his ass and twiddle his thumbs thanks to the Aluminazi.
/I think el presidente's salary is now $1.4 mil

They tried to charge us an extra $100 athletic fee. It went before a student vote and got canned.

/Price of scan-trons will probably double again.

If you live out of state, and are paying out of state rates, you're doing it wrong...


/From VA, went to a VA college
//plenty of kids I knew were "in-state" through relatives, etc

If I got paid $500,000 a year like a college president, I could come up with some damn good excuses too.

Your tax dollars at work, people!

the solution is simple....tell your college of choice that you are an illegal alien from Mexico....they get the less expensive in state tuition.

betona: I suspect it boils down to lack of state support and heavy spending on buildings and facilities.

I can't speak for the whole Big 10, but I know at the one I went to there were quite a few buildings in disrepair and no money to fix them up. The budget just didn't exist. Now we're in a recession.

/'06

If you are an out of state student struggling to pay tuition you can instantly lower your tuition:

1. Renounce your US citizenship
2. Claim to be an illegal immigrant
3. Voila reduced tuition, free healthcare, no taxes, etc

/The real scam in college isn't tuition, at least thats going towards your school, its textbooks and the book store. Thats legalized fraud and extortion

Everyone repeat after me:

Not everybody needs to, or even should go, to college.

Many will find better career prospects through trade schools and apprenticeships, as opposed to a BA in Philosophy that won't get you hired anywhere, that took 5 years and $100,000 to complete.

This notion that it is a god given right in this country to receive higher education is laughable. So long as people are under the impression that in order to succeed, they MUST attend college is borderline lunacy. It's almost like there's been some sort of artificial demand for college education that's been created of late. Well, not almost- there is.

Mayhap someday people will figure out that if fewer people go to college, prices can come down.

/not in my lifetime, certainly
//still eagerly awaiting the utter breakdown of society

betona: I suspect it boils down to lack of state support and heavy spending on buildings and facilities.

It's not the lack state support and it's not the buildings and facilities. It's also not athletics. I've worked in public and private universities for quite some time, and i can say that one reason public universities are raising rates is because of state support.

Private schools are on their own. They get no magical dollars from the sky just because they exist. For that reason they are generally wary to take on new projects or commitments. They are generally far more efficient. It's why their tuitons have huge jumps versus small jumps schools that don't get state budget allocation.

Both public and private schools suffer from the amenities war. Fancy wellness centers, luxury residence halls with maid service, etc. Tons of projects designed to lure new students with the luster of newness instead of the quality of education provided.

State schools are not looking to provide quality education for in-state students at reasonable rates. That is not the least bit interest to them. They want to be bigger better fancier than every other school, regardless of it's impact on the education they are providing for you.

Do away with the billions states are sending to their state schools that are being squandered. Give each qualified student their cut of tax money and let them decide where the money goes.

Most outrageous: students think it is their right to have subsidized education. Also, farkers think that.

nuclear_asshat

Give each qualified student their cut of tax money and let them decide where the money goes.

Now there you go making sense again, what are you? some kind of nut!

Can't college admin make sports programs pay for themselves?

I have a daughter attending Baylor.

nuclear_asshat: betona: I suspect it boils down to lack of state support and heavy spending on buildings and facilities.

Private schools are on their own. They get no magical dollars from the sky just because they exist. For that reason they are generally wary to take on new projects or commitments. They are generally far more efficient. It's why their tuitons have huge jumps versus small jumps schools that don't get state budget allocation.

I like the rest of your line of reasoning, but many private universities have very large and lucrative research contracts with private companies, and the US government. I realize that state schools do too, but this does not detract from the fact that private schools are partially government funded as well.

Feel free to correct me with numbers, but that's the very strong impression I have given my experiences with schools/grad schools and the funding they get.

texasjoe: Can't college admin make sports programs pay for themselves?

I have a daughter attending Baylor.

Depends on the school. Only about 17-20 athletic departments in the country are 100% self-supporting.

/went to one of these
//enjoyed it immensely

My school just waived my out of state tuition so I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

/10 hour a week assistantship is a small price to pay.

It's a combination of price discrimination (two degrees, actually, when you include in- and out-of-state tuitions) and the "rich uncle effect". You charge the highest price you can and see who's willing to pay. After you've filled that segment, you start offering selective discounts - let's call them "scholarships" - to each subsequent market segment. It's the easiest way to maximize the amount each segment will pay. Then once you add the fact that someone else is subsidizing the cost (via loans and grants) for many, you have just pushed a lot of people up into the next price level.

If people realized this and treated it like any other industry that priced its goods or services this way and to the extent that colleges do, people would be marching in the streets to demand that Congress impose tight regulation. Instead they just keep demanding more money to pay the cost, thus perpetuating the cycle.

If you want to enter the U.S. on a work visa and actually do something productive, you have to prove yourself first. But if you want to blow $20K in taxpayer money to pursue your studies in "Conceptualizing Native Place", knock yourself out.

Number41: Article Headline: College conundrum: Less out-of-state students

If they went to college, they'd know it's "fewer out-of-state students".

The "dire straights" line was good too

Must be a quite a few desperate heterosexuals on those campuses

grinding_journalist: I like the rest of your line of reasoning, but many private universities have very large and lucrative research contracts with private companies, and the US government. I realize that state schools do too, but this does not detract from the fact that private schools are partially government funded as well.

I don't think he was saying the multi-billion-dollar research industry going on at these universities constitutes the "magical dollars from the sky just because they exist". That money is earned with valuable research and patents.

dahmers love zombie: Oh, and we just got permission to charge $25 per credit hour more for online courses. So, you can pay more AND get a crappier quality class!

I think that depends. I actually think in some topics, students would learn significantly more online. Since I've adopted more online resources (and held fewer live classes...I just cancel them and say they are online) student performance has increased significantly. Now, that's anecdotal, but it's just how the students learn. It is WAY more work for me, and it would be WAY easier for me to just go in and lecture like I've done for a bazillion years, but the students seem to be retaining more with the online format.

grinding_journalist: I like the rest of your line of reasoning, but many private universities have very large and lucrative research contracts with private companies, and the US government. I realize that state schools do too, but this does not detract from the fact that private schools are partially government funded as well.

Feel free to correct me with numbers, but that's the very strong impression I have given my experiences with schools/grad schools and the funding they get.

You are talking about a VERY small percentage of private schools with government contracts. Your Miami, Harvard, Stanford, will all have huge endowments and government funding. They are in the minority of private schools. Look at a Flagler in Florida, Drake in Iowa, St. Olaf, BYU, Oklahoma City University, and the dozens of small schools you'll find in any state. They operate year after year with no huge government contracts or state dollars.

nuclear_asshat: grinding_journalist: I like the rest of your line of reasoning, but many private universities have very large and lucrative research contracts with private companies, and the US government. I realize that state schools do too, but this does not detract from the fact that private schools are partially government funded as well.

Feel free to correct me with numbers, but that's the very strong impression I have given my experiences with schools/grad schools and the funding they get.

You are talking about a VERY small percentage of private schools with government contracts. Your Miami, Harvard, Stanford, will all have huge endowments and government funding. They are in the minority of private schools. Look at a Flagler in Florida, Drake in Iowa, St. Olaf, BYU, Oklahoma City University, and the dozens of small schools you'll find in any state. They operate year after year with no huge government contracts or state dollars.

And they say we can't be civil here on Fark.

That's pretty interesting, and I didn't know that it wasn't that widespread. When I was in school working in the bursar's office, in the two semesters I was there, I saw no less than $150 million of government money poured into our new cancer research center. Seeing this, and hearing reports of corporate America pouring money into universities, I drew what seemed like a reasonable conclusion. (My school's total endowment was in the 2 bil range, so I saw 150 mil as a sizeable chunk of operating revenues.)

I also was more generally referring to larger schools, as not a whole lot of cutting-edge scientific research tends to occur at small liberal arts colleges. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd have to see sources if you want to argue the other way on that one.)

private 'Colleges',another victim of capitalism greed and managerial incompetence,with overpaid remedial school flunkies at the top,dispensing knowledge that should have been taught in jr.high.

Since about 2002 a college diploma hasn't been leading to a job since there was almost no job creation during the Bush years .

Bush had less than 1/10 the job creation of Clinton. Hell even Carter's job creation levels are great compared to Bush's (see link below)

People are going to be less and less inclined to lay out money for schooling that leads to the unemployment line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms

Woo-Hoo! Prepaid college FTW!

nuclear_asshat: They are generally far more efficient.

I used to think that public universities were inefficient, until I shifted my work to a private university. As long as New Jersey kids are left with the choice of Rutgers or going out of state, this place will never have any incentive to curb costs, so they burn through money.

Budget priorities, in order:
Senior admin
Trips for senior admins
Senior faculty
Mid-level admins
Junior faculty
Staff
Students
Libraries
Books for libraries

/not a librarian

the academic institution I work at is ungodly expensive, I mean the tuition, room & board, and all other expenses = slightly higher than my salary. seriously I don't know how or why tuition is so high, how kids pay for it or how they'll ever pay the loans back.

\but thanks for paying my salary, kids!

Let's say inflation is 2% in a given year. Does it necessarily follow that a university should, or even could, maintain the status quo by raising tuition and fees 2%?

Demonstrate your critical thinking skills and basic economic literacy by giving, in short-answer form, three (3) of the many reasons why the answer to that question is "no." You may use examples from any kind of college or university. Do not look on any other Farker's paper. You have 30 minutes.

MrEricSir: If I got paid $500,000 a year like a college president, I could come up with some damn good excuses too.

Your tax dollars at work, people!


Well Mary Sue Coleman at University of Michigan makes around 750k per year, but in her defense, she's in charge of overseeing EVERYTHING at that place in some role or another (hospitals, research, transportation infrastructure even)... for the amount of work she has to do she makes a hell of a lot less than she would to be a corporate fat cat.

...now that fact that down the road at Albion College, the president there makes about 400k to herd around less than 2 thousand undergrads is a hell of a lot more disgusting. (though the previous present ran the place into the ground, so they needed to put up the $$$ to attract someone).

/just using examples from my former state (and my alma matter...the latter one)

Can someone explain why someone would go to an out-of-state public college instead of one in their own state? As the article mentions, the snootiness falls in when one considers a school "public," so aren't Minnesota's state schools just as "public" as Maryland's (or any of the other 49 states)?

DayeOfJustice: Can someone explain why someone would go to an out-of-state public college instead of one in their own state?

Depends on which state you live in. I was lucky to grow up in Wisconsin, while some others... well, not so much.

DayeOfJustice: Can someone explain why someone would go to an out-of-state public college instead of one in their own state? As the article mentions, the snootiness falls in when one considers a school "public," so aren't Minnesota's state schools just as "public" as Maryland's (or any of the other 49 states)?

so students can go out and "Discover themselves" of course. Nevermind that they'll probably fail out in semester 1 and just end up at a CC anway.

/went to a private LAC for a BA
//with scholarships it worked out to about the same as state school
///in med school now at 40k per year...out of state of course.

When I enrolled in CSULB in 2001 the total cost minus books for a full load was around 750$. Now its around 1700$. More than 100% increase in less than 10 years(most of it from in the few semesters following 2001 and onward). Sure, it's still affordable, but I had to increase from part time work to full time work to pay for the ~400$ increases per semester I was there. Made school a lot harder

piperTom:
Most outrageous: students think it is their right to have subsidized education. Also, farkers think that.

Education is subsidized so more people can afford it, and thus so you don't live in a country full of barely-employable semi-literate tards. It's a bargain at the price you pay.

T-Servo: DayeOfJustice: Can someone explain why someone would go to an out-of-state public college instead of one in their own state?

Depends on which state you live in. I was lucky to grow up in Wisconsin, while some others... well, not so much.

Exactly. Some (many?) states don't have good state schools, or enough good state schools. I believe here in Washington we end up exporting a decent number of good students because there aren't slots available in-state.

No Such Agency: Education is subsidized so more people can afford it, and thus so you don't live in a country full of barely-employable semi-literate tards. It's a bargain at the price you pay.

Additionally, education is only one function of state universities. Research is another huge priority that is often overlooked by people whose education stopped at a BS/BA. Universities with a strong research program have a symbiotic relationship with local industry.

/spent 5 years as a PhD student doing research in a chemical engineering department

ust how good? At the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, for example, in-state residents pay $5,626 in tuition and fees. Out-of-state students pay $23,514. Similarly, at the University of Virginia, out-of-state students pay about $20,000 more in tuition and fees than Virginia residents.

That is Farked up. For the out-of-state costs, you could attend a local college and buy a new car every year.

Mongo cut wood: ust how good? At the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, for example, in-state residents pay $5,626 in tuition and fees. Out-of-state students pay $23,514. Similarly, at the University of Virginia, out-of-state students pay about $20,000 more in tuition and fees than Virginia residents.

That is Farked up. For the out-of-state costs, you could attend a local college and buy a new car every year.

UNC Chapel Hill is a really good school though, far better than most local colleges, which is why they can charge that much.

Mongo cut wood: ust how good? At the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, for example, in-state residents pay $5,626 in tuition and fees. Out-of-state students pay $23,514. Similarly, at the University of Virginia, out-of-state students pay about $20,000 more in tuition and fees than Virginia residents.

That is Farked up. For the out-of-state costs, you could attend a local college and buy a new car every year.

to be fair, it's not like there's a possibility of getting that NC in state tuition coming from other places... and some states subsidize their schools so weakly that the OOS costs at a places like UNC aren't that much more than the IS at their home institutions.

..for med school at least, UNC costs 10k per year in state, so you'd be crazy to go someplace else if you got in.

Penn State costs over 30k per year, so the difference between staying in state and going private, is a lot smaller...and you don't have to spend 4 years in Hershey.