Talibs: black clothing
Sufis: Qawwalis

Result: 1-0 to Sufism

I don't think it works that way under 4e rules.

It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

Weaver95: I don't think it works that way under 4e rules.

It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

Ramen.

/Still like 2nd ed though too, with the old splat books added in.

Weaver95: It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

Seems to me that 4e was built primarily for ease of computer adjudication. The problem is that there's no way D&D is going to take back the MMORPG crowd from WoW, and in the meantime they've killed the character-development aspect that set pencil-and-paper roleplaying apart from computer RPGs.

Wait until the Taliban taste my Magic Missiles!

chrylis: Weaver95: It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

Seems to me that 4e was built primarily for ease of computer adjudication. The problem is that there's no way D&D is going to take back the MMORPG crowd from WoW, and in the meantime they've killed the character-development aspect that set pencil-and-paper roleplaying apart from computer RPGs.

don't forget that they've also completely alienated their older fan base. Oh, and with WoTC's recent PDF idiocy, now they've pissed off younger and more tech savvy players as well (mostly younger ones).

Do you know who's running the show over at WoTC? A former luggage salesman who's never even cracked a DM's guide and doesn't play RP games. So it's working out as well as you'd expect.

4e relies too much on using miniatures or some other system to determine exact location on a grid, which makes combat too long, clunky and boring. Not to mention that attacks are too complicated.

haven't these people learned anything? violating the tomb of the dead, especially the MYSTICS among the dead can only instigate the horrors of a zombie apocalypse the likes of which not even the most prepared amongst us would not survive! We're talking about slow-moving, lightning-wielding undead who feast on genitalia rather than brains..

I'm not liking this scenario.

NobleHam: 4e relies too much on using miniatures or some other system to determine exact location on a grid, which makes combat too long, clunky and boring. Not to mention that attacks are too complicated.

esp since you can just log into WoW and play the same game much easier and cheaper.

Weaver95

Dude, NWN 1 and 2 and the mods is where things are at.

Screw WoW.

TommyDeuce: Weaver95: I don't think it works that way under 4e rules.

It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

Ramen.

/Still like 2nd ed though too, with the old splat books added in.

Aside from the Psionicists handbook, fark the rest of the splatbooks. I've ranted enough times regarding them, so the tl;dr of it is they ruined 2nd ed.

Wizards are still okay, right?

MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

Various groups which primarily are under the umbrella grouping of "bullies with guns".

Epossumondas: Wizards are still okay, right?

rip torn?

Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

I believe the reference here is specifically to aid given by the US to the Islamic fundamentalist dictator that happened to be running Pakistan at the time.

Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

saying the usa funded the people who went on to create the taliban would be more appropriate.

Sigh,Taliban has the right objective but the wrong farking way

Though I have to say, it should be fairly obvious by now that funding the Mujahideen wasn't a particularly bright move either.

Weaver95: I don't think it works that way under 4e rules.

It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

I dunno, I've enjoyed 4th ed. 3.5E has some serious problems with magic at higher levels.

AliasUndercover: Wait until the Taliban taste my Magic Missiles!



What a magic missile may look like.

Biological Ali: Though I have to say, it should be fairly obvious by now that funding the Mujahideen wasn't a particularly bright move either.

This shiat makes me believe in karma.
WHENEVER America interferes with another country, it ALWAYS comes back to bite them in the ass

muslim_pakistani_guy: WHENEVER America interferes with another country, it ALWAYS comes back to bite them in the ass

Well... not always.

/ 9/11 changed everything
//though probably not for the country you're thinking of

Weaver95: I don't think it works that way under 4e rules.

It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

TommyDeuce: Weaver95: I don't think it works that way under 4e rules.

It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

Ramen.

/Still like 2nd ed though too, with the old splat books added in.

To each his own I guess...

chrylis: Weaver95: It's not that I hate 4th edition, it's just that I think Paizo got 3.5 done right.

Seems to me that 4e was built primarily for ease of computer adjudication. The problem is that there's no way D&D is going to take back the MMORPG crowd from WoW, and in the meantime they've killed the character-development aspect that set pencil-and-paper roleplaying apart from computer RPGs.

How exactly did they kill character development? All they did was simplify the character sheet and some of the rules. You can do anything you want in 4e EXCEPT be a necromancer, which isn't a big deal unless that's all you play.

Weaver95: don't forget that they've also completely alienated their older fan base. Oh, and with WoTC's recent PDF idiocy, now they've pissed off younger and more tech savvy players as well (mostly younger ones).

Do you know who's running the show over at WoTC? A former luggage salesman who's never even cracked a DM's guide and doesn't play RP games. So it's working out as well as you'd expect.

granted, I haven't played 1st ed. or chainmail, but as someone who started playing in 2nd ed, the only "older players" I find who feel alienated were the same ones who felt alienated over 3.x and simply don't like change.

Also, they're now trying to make that DDI subscription worthwhile. Starting in July, they're gonna release a chapter of the PBH3 online until it's release.

NobleHam: 4e relies too much on using miniatures or some other system to determine exact location on a grid, which makes combat too long, clunky and boring. Not to mention that attacks are too complicated.

I was never big on the grid until I had it explained to me that without it we're really playing Cowboys & Indians with dice. With the new powers system I find combat in my group is much faster a leagues more entertaining, especially for the martial classes.

Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

we funded the Mujahideen

Biological Ali: AliasUndercover: Wait until the Taliban taste my Magic Missiles!



What a magic missile waste of money may look like.

Biological Ali: muslim_pakistani_guy: WHENEVER America interferes with another country, it ALWAYS comes back to bite them in the ass

Well... not always.

/ 9/11 changed everything
//though probably not for the country you're thinking of

Jesus Christ

MonkeyVegetables: Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

we funded the Mujahideen

a mercury is completely different from a ford.

Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

saying the usa funded the people who went on to create the taliban would be more appropriate.

Again, wrong.

Many nations were involved in funding, training and supplying the Afghan resistance. It was not just the US. There was China, Europe, and a crap load of Arab countries.

The Taliban came about AFTER the war against the Soviets, and was basically setup by the ISI in Pakistan.

Swampthing in Korea:

The Taliban came about AFTER the war against the Soviets, and was basically setup by the ISI in Pakistan.

after being trained by the us to fight against the soviets and awarded with fancy stinger missiles. the same stinger missiles that ollie/reagan sold to iranian terrorists at around time so they could give the cash to drug juntas in central america.

Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: Swampthing in Korea:

The Taliban came about AFTER the war against the Soviets, and was basically setup by the ISI in Pakistan.

after being trained by the us to fight against the soviets and awarded with fancy stinger missiles. the same stinger missiles that ollie/reagan sold to iranian terrorists at around time so they could give the cash to drug juntas in central america.

I forget, you a troll.

Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: MonkeyVegetables: Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

we funded the Mujahideen

a mercury is completely different from a ford.

the Mujahideen were the Jihad against invaders and infidels... guess who became the invaders

Swampthing in Korea: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: Swampthing in Korea:

The Taliban came about AFTER the war against the Soviets, and was basically setup by the ISI in Pakistan.

after being trained by the us to fight against the soviets and awarded with fancy stinger missiles. the same stinger missiles that ollie/reagan sold to iranian terrorists at around time so they could give the cash to drug juntas in central america.

I forget, you a troll.

i a right.

MonkeyVegetables: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: MonkeyVegetables: Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

we funded the Mujahideen

a mercury is completely different from a ford.

the Mujahideen were the Jihad against invaders and infidels... guess who became the invaders

The guys from the next village over?

Swampthing in Korea: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

saying the usa funded the people who went on to create the taliban would be more appropriate.

Again, wrong.

Many nations were involved in funding, training and supplying the Afghan resistance. It was not just the US. There was China, Europe, and a crap load of Arab countries.

The Taliban came about AFTER the war against the Soviets, and was basically setup by the ISI in Pakistan.

This. The US funding went to groups that became the Northern Alliance, remember them? They originally lost rule over Afghanistan to the Taliban in the mid 90s because with the Soviet threat gone, the US largely stopped funding them while gulf Arabs and Pakistani's stepped up to back the Talbain.

The pure Islamic state the Taliban brought is exactly what pious Muslims wanted, and that's what they got.

Swampthing in Korea: The guys from the next village over?

maybe for the time period between 1989 and October 7, 2001

Swampthing in Korea: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: Swampthing in Korea:

The Taliban came about AFTER the war against the Soviets, and was basically setup by the ISI in Pakistan.

after being trained by the us to fight against the soviets and awarded with fancy stinger missiles. the same stinger missiles that ollie/reagan sold to iranian terrorists at around time so they could give the cash to drug juntas in central america.

I forget, you a troll.

So you are saying that Iran Contra never happened? No, you are the troll.

beoswulf: Swampthing in Korea: Nothing Sweeter Than Redneck Tears: Swampthing in Korea: MonkeyVegetables: F42: MonkeyVegetables: The extremists gained strength in Pakistan in the 1980s, partly on the back of funding by the United States, which used hardline groups as proxies to fight Soviet rule in Afghanistan.

USA! USA! USA!

This needs to be repeated.

it sure does

Except that the funding went to varied groups, so to claim "The USA funded the Taliban" is very innaccurate.

saying the usa funded the people who went on to create the taliban would be more appropriate.

Again, wrong.

Many nations were involved in funding, training and supplying the Afghan resistance. It was not just the US. There was China, Europe, and a crap load of Arab countries.

The Taliban came about AFTER the war against the Soviets, and was basically setup by the ISI in Pakistan.

This. The US funding went to groups that became the Northern Alliance, remember them?

the us funnelled funds through the psi, so in reality, he's just saying that the us funded the creation of the taliban.

(1982) ISI, CIA and Mossad carried out a covert transfer of Soviet-made weapons and Lebanese weapons captured by the Israelis during the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in June 1982 and their subsequent transfer to Pakistan and then into Afghanistan. All knowledge of this weapon transfer was kept secret and was only made public recently.

(1982-1997) ISI played a central role in the U.S.-backed guerrilla war to oust the Soviet Army from Afghanistan in the 1980s. That Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)-backed effort flooded Pakistan with weapons and with Afghan, Pakistani and Arab "mujahideen", who were motivated to fight as a united force protecting fellow Muslims in Soviet occupied Afghanistan. The CIA relied on the ISI to train fighters, distribute arms, and channel money. The ISI trained about 83,000 Afghan mujahideen between 1983 and 1997, and dispatched them to Afghanistan. B. Raman of the South Asia Analysis Group, an Indian think-tank, claims that the Central Intelligence Agency through the ISI promoted the smuggling of heroin into Afghanistan in order to turn the Soviet troops into heroin addicts and thus greatly reducing their fighting potential.

I like 4th Ed. better. I like the way they did special attacks and the way magical throwing weapons work.

The Taliban as they exist today were not created by the USA, they are the product of the dichotomy that is Pakistan, and the only intelligence agency in the world that has a country, the ISI (compared to others where a country has an intelligence agency).

They were singularly created by the ISI as part of its strategic depth policy against India. Taliban are a convenient tool to keep Afghanistan off balance.

Pakistan and Afghanistan have simmering border disputes and the restive borders of Afghanistan keep that from biting pakis in the arse.

But don't let that stop you from blaming the USA for the crap shoot that is Af-Pak, bleeding heart liberals...

I don't know why we had such a hard on about Afghanistan. Or Korea and Viet Nam for that matter. I think everyone just lost their minds through paranoia during the Cold War. Turns out all we had to do was out spend them and let them bankrupt themselves.

Biological Ali
muslim_pakistani_guy: WHENEVER America interferes with another country, it ALWAYS comes back to bite them in the ass


Well... not always.

/ 9/11 changed everything
//though probably not for the country you're thinking of


You might get a kick out of this^ ;)

When in doubt, cast a random cantrap. Roll for chance to confuse enemies by sheer random stupidity.

Seriously, you're locked in battle to the death and suddenly your weapon looks like a chicken. There's pretty good odds that takes you second to react to.

/DMs hated me.

The Taliban envies the dead Sufi mystic lifestyle, that's why they attack.

/the classics

But don't let that stop you from blaming the USA for the crap shoot that is Af-Pak, bleeding heart liberals...

Ah, another fairly cogent analysis ruined by a useless Limbaughism. Did it ever dawn on you that there are plenty of people who you probably think are "bleeding heart liberals" who agree with the earlier part of your post? Or was your need to validate your partisanship so great and so painful that you had to relieve it?

It's bullshiat like that last sentence that keep us at each other's throats when there are far greater threats out there. It's about time the partisan bullyboys on both sides either grew up or shut up.