So ... no-bid contracts are an "affront to the military", but having their equipment built by the absolute lowest bidder for the cheapest cost possible isn't?

Oh, and thanks for now threatening even more jobs in this trying economy. Because instead of actually looking into where the wasteful spending is, I guarantee it will just be a cut to the budget, and so the companies will just start with the employees at the bottom.

Teufel232: Oh, and thanks for now threatening even more jobs in this trying economy. Because instead of actually looking into where the wasteful spending is, I guarantee it will just be a cut to the budget, and so the companies will just start with the employees at the bottom.

I thought that you guys were all about capitalism. Make up your minds, jesus.

cameroncrazy1984: Teufel232: Oh, and thanks for now threatening even more jobs in this trying economy. Because instead of actually looking into where the wasteful spending is, I guarantee it will just be a cut to the budget, and so the companies will just start with the employees at the bottom.

I thought that you guys were all about capitalism. Make up your minds, jesus.

What exactly do you mean by "You guys"?

Teufel232: What exactly do you mean by "You guys"?

I think he meant "Jews".

Teufel232: What exactly do you mean by "You guys"?

I'm guessing partisan idiots or trolls, I'm not sure which.

verbal_jizm: Teufel232: What exactly do you mean by "You guys"?

I'm guessing partisan idiots or trolls, I'm not sure which.

So, someone pointing out their opinion on a subject is suddenly what makes a partisan idiot or a troll? Well, I guess that everyone on Fark is one or other then.

Let me put it this way ... I'm not a person who just lets the group mentality of a particular party generate what their responses to any given subject would be. I'm a person that forms his own opinions on subjects based upon what I see and find out by myself.

I hate lowest-bidder contracts, because 9 times out of 10, it leads to crap products. I also disagree with no-bid contracts for the most part, but they sometimes provide a better end product.

I hate cuts to the budget defense because that's my food on the farking table. And every single time there's a cut, the government doesn't actually do any searching into where the wasteful spending is going. They just cut the budget, and the companies then cuts out the employees at the bottom, which just happens to be where I fall, while continuing to wastefully spend on everything that they were to begin with. It achieves nothing except putting more people out of work and increasing the unemployment rate.

Teufel232:

I hate cuts to the budget defense defense budget

/Always a mistake when trying to make a point

verbal_jizm: Teufel232: What exactly do you mean by "You guys"?

I'm guessing partisan idiots or trolls, I'm not sure which.

I think he means "I am a partisan idiot".

Teufel232: Oh, and thanks for now threatening even more jobs in this trying economy.

Ahahahaha, you just want to attack Obama and you don't care how stupid you sound. I bet you're also going around yelling that the budget is far too big, but cut military spending even a dime and you go berserk the other way. Could you be any more obvious about your bias?

Teufel232:
I hate cuts to the budget defense because that's my food on the farking table.

well, that sucks. but too bad the industry has been begging for this for decades.

the defense budget has been a disgraceful boondoggle for years. eisenhower was right about the "military-industrial complex." and if obama cuts a few cold war-era programs that have been lining the pockets of some orange county defense contractors, so farking be it. hell, i'll bet we could cut the defense budget in half and still have the world's best military.

FlashHarry: hell, i'll bet we could cut the defense budget in half and still have the world's best military.

Considering all the hardware we already have on hand, there's no doubt.

FlashHarry: hell, i'll bet we could cut the defense budget in half and still have the world's best military.

We could gut the US military budget, probably reduce it to 1/6th of its current size, and still be bigger than anyone else.



/hot

Is it OK to ask WTF "economic defense spending" is?

.

Are you sure he didn't mean "guys"?

Obama cited one government study which found that roughly $295 billion of taxpayers' money was wasted last year on cost overruns involving 95 defense programs.
===========================================

DAAAAAMN.

300 billion is a shiatload.

/Cool beans.
//Great job!

GAT_00: FlashHarry: hell, i'll bet we could cut the defense budget in half and still have the world's best military.

We could gut the US military budget, probably reduce it to 1/6th of its current size, and still be bigger than anyone else.



/hot

You can speak softly and carry a big stick.

Or you can speak really really goddamn loud, tell everyone what to do, stomp around like you run everything, be super annoying, and carry the biggest a gigantic redwood tree trunk with rocket launchers on the sides.

We'd be screwed without the economy. There are enough ridiculously armed rednecks in this country that we could do pretty well without the military.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: Is it OK to ask WTF "economic defense spending" is?

It appears to mean:

economic - "Of or relating to the production, development, and management of material wealth, as of a country, household, or business enterprise."
defense - "An argument in support or justification of something."
spending - "To pay out (money)."

economic (new window)
defense (new window)
spending (new window)

Another day on fark, another freeper-troll headline.

Teufel232: I hate cuts to the budget defense because that's my food on the farking table


IE, government spending is bad except for the slice that I depend on for my livelihood.

Cut the military spending by three quarters, and allocate some of that for a universial medicare program, and give the rest back to the public. Taxes cut, medical insurance for all! Now who's against that?

(Note: this picture doesn't represent my personal views on his policies)

TFA: The bill creates a new director of independent cost assessment, appointed by the president and subject to Senate confirmation. Early warning systems will also be put in place to address cost problems before they get out of hand.

There are no predictions for how much will be saved by increasing control over Pentagon procurement practices, but with multibillion-dollar cost overruns a common occurrence, lawmakers said there is potential for huge financial rewards.

I'll take symbolism over substance for $500.

Teufel232: Teufel232:

I hate cuts to the budget defense defense budget

/Always a mistake when trying to make a point

So the military can NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES make ANY MISTAKES? Never can they decide to stop pursuing a program, or that priorities should shift? The most expensive option is ALWAYS the best option?

did he veto the Trillion sent to ACORN yet??????

video man: Cut the military spending by three quarters, and allocate some of that for a universial medicare program, and give the rest back to the public. Taxes cut, medical insurance for all! Now who's against that?

Everybody with an IQ over 30?

If defense spending was good for the economy, then theoretically speaking, we should never have gone into an "economic crisis."

\the only things that trickle down anymore are costs to the consumer.

Teufel232: verbal_jizm: Teufel232: What exactly do you mean by "You guys"?

I'm guessing partisan idiots or trolls, I'm not sure which.

So, someone pointing out their opinion on a subject is suddenly what makes a partisan idiot or a troll? Well, I guess that everyone on Fark is one or other then.

Let me put it this way ... I'm not a person who just lets the group mentality of a particular party generate what their responses to any given subject would be. I'm a person that forms his own opinions on subjects based upon what I see and find out by myself.

I hate lowest-bidder contracts, because 9 times out of 10, it leads to crap products. I also disagree with no-bid contracts for the most part, but they sometimes provide a better end product.

I hate cuts to the budget defense because that's my food on the farking table. And every single time there's a cut, the government doesn't actually do any searching into where the wasteful spending is going. They just cut the budget, and the companies then cuts out the employees at the bottom, which just happens to be where I fall, while continuing to wastefully spend on everything that they were to begin with. It achieves nothing except putting more people out of work and increasing the unemployment rate.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Any contractor that receives a no-bid contract is perfectly capable of submitting a proposal to win a competitive bidding process. And in no way does the lowest bid win every procurement.

How to spot wasteful defense spending:

Money that gets spent on defense in other countries.

GurneyHalleck: If defense spending was good for the economy, then theoretically speaking, we should never have gone into an "economic crisis."

\the only things that trickle down anymore are costs to the consumer.

Anymore? That implies there was once a time when that theory was actually true

Teufel232: I hate lowest-bidder contracts, because 9 times out of 10, it leads to crap products. I also disagree with no-bid contracts for the most part, but they sometimes provide a better end product.

I seem to recall reading an article a couple of years back about many of our troops being sent to Iraq without proper protection. (?)

And I think that occurred during a period of no-bid contracts too. (again, ?)

Teufel232
I hate cuts to the budget defense because that's my food on the farking table.

Go do something productive. If you're just doing "make-work" for the money, you're basically on welfare.

Britney Spear's Speculum: (Note: this picture doesn't represent my personal views on his policies)

I t also fails to make any sense whatsoever.

I've worked as a military contractor.
And the amount of waste
and the amount of politics protecting that waste is profound.

both contractors and govt workers are inefficient or lazy,
communications and inter-departmental cooperation sucks,
contractors promote staying in contracts to use up the hours, etc...

Its all about protecting your position and budget.

Quality people cannot be brought in because of background checks that filter out irrelevant criteria.
(ex. while financials should be looked into because of potential crime, it shouldn't be use a preventative filter...many have had hiccups in their past because of uncontrollable trauma...illness, self-employment failures, etc)

And finally the MANY layers that it takes just to pay staff will make you sick.
First the initial budget, then the contract, then the subcontractor, then the recruiter, etc.

Then the rules that prevent what you know to be better quality resources and companies, so it becomes a crap shoot of bidders.
You can prevent favoritism by review, but let them give it to companies that they KNOW can help better.

The list goes on and on...

I do hope this does help...but it will take a LONG time to fix.

/you've got to start somewhere...

Since bush created the Department of Homeland Security, the homeland is secure. Therefore we do not need the Department of Defense any more. It should be abolished.

I thought all government spending was stimulus though. Was I misled?

ilambiquated
I t also fails to make any sense whatsoever.

bah, I say it's perfect (hint, the second picture is a water fountain)

rogue49: I've worked as a military contractor.
And the amount of waste
and the amount of politics protecting that waste is profound.

both contractors and govt workers are inefficient or lazy,
communications and inter-departmental cooperation sucks,
contractors promote staying in contracts to use up the hours, etc...

Its all about protecting your position and budget.

Quality people cannot be brought in because of background checks that filter out irrelevant criteria.
(ex. while financials should be looked into because of potential crime, it shouldn't be use a preventative filter...many have had hiccups in their past because of uncontrollable trauma...illness, self-employment failures, etc)

And finally the MANY layers that it takes just to pay staff will make you sick.
First the initial budget, then the contract, then the subcontractor, then the recruiter, etc.

Then the rules that prevent what you know to be better quality resources and companies, so it becomes a crap shoot of bidders.
You can prevent favoritism by review, but let them give it to companies that they KNOW can help better.

The list goes on and on...

I do hope this does help...but it will take a LONG time to fix.

/you've got to start somewhere...

I agree with you only in the sense that military contracting is deeply flawed. Civilian (minus DHS) is much better.

How many billions have we lost in Iraq?

Not spent, lost.

Literally, we ship money over there on pallets and then misplace it.

Remove all Republicans: The_Six_Fingered_Man: I thought all government spending was stimulus though. Was I misled?

The money from economic spending goes to regular Americans here who then spend the money. The money from military spending (when tons aren't lost in Iraq) is given the corporate executives like Dick Cheney, who just save it and don't spend a thing.

One is stimulus and the other is not.

So we aren't paying our soldiers, Marines, airman, and sailors? They don't pump that money back into their local economies when/if they return to the States?

/I really hate feeding you, but am unable not to bite.

Big difference.

The usefulness of something bought in the military is designed to shoot or be shot at, and its usefulness ends when it has done so sufficiently, often to the point where nothing of it can be recovered. It is only accessible by the military.

The usefulness of something bought economically can potentially be derived over and over again, can often be salvaged to be used again in at least a partial form, and is accessible to a wide variety of civilians in addition to the military.

Lost Thought 00 2009-05-22 06:52:37 PM

Teufel232: Teufel232:

I hate cuts to the budget defense defense budget

/Always a mistake when trying to make a point

So the military can NEVER under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES make ANY MISTAKES? Never can they decide to stop pursuing a program, or that priorities should shift? The most expensive option is ALWAYS the best option?

actually the military kills programs all the time, that go over budget or are not worth anything


examples

Seawolf Submarine, from 30 to 3

Delayed V-22 until it was safe

Killed numerious Airplane upgrades

F-14 retired early due to high fuel and parts cost (They still had time on their airframes, anyone want a used F14?)

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Remove all Republicans: The_Six_Fingered_Man: I thought all government spending was stimulus though. Was I misled?

The money from economic spending goes to regular Americans here who then spend the money. The money from military spending (when tons aren't lost in Iraq) is given the corporate executives like Dick Cheney, who just save it and don't spend a thing.

One is stimulus and the other is not.

So we aren't paying our soldiers, Marines, airman, and sailors? They don't pump that money back into their local economies when/if they return to the States?

/I really hate feeding you, but am unable not to bite.

The point, you're missing it. The size of the military budget lends itself to wasteful programs. Civilian agencies must be tighter with their spending and oversight.

rogue49 2009-05-22 06:57:27 PM

I've worked as a military contractor.
And the amount of waste
and the amount of politics protecting that waste is profound.

both contractors and govt workers are inefficient or lazy,
communications and inter-departmental cooperation sucks,
contractors promote staying in contracts to use up the hours, etc...

Its all about protecting your position and budget.

Quality people cannot be brought in because of background checks that filter out irrelevant criteria.
(ex. while financials should be looked into because of potential crime, it shouldn't be use a preventative filter...many have had hiccups in their past because of uncontrollable trauma...illness, self-employment failures, etc)

And finally the MANY layers that it takes just to pay staff will make you sick.
First the initial budget, then the contract, then the subcontractor, then the recruiter, etc.

Then the rules that prevent what you know to be better quality resources and companies, so it becomes a crap shoot of bidders.
You can prevent favoritism by review, but let them give it to companies that they KNOW can help better.

The list goes on and on...

I do hope this does help...but it will take a LONG time to fix.

/you've got to start somewhere...

wow, I worked for Bank Of America and you hit them right on the head... not the DOD, but BOA.

cameroncrazy1984: Teufel232: Oh, and thanks for now threatening even more jobs in this trying economy. Because instead of actually looking into where the wasteful spending is, I guarantee it will just be a cut to the budget, and so the companies will just start with the employees at the bottom.

I thought that you guys were all about capitalism. Make up your minds, jesus.

besides. only rich people really spend, so as long as the execs keep their jobs and don't get taxed 3% more we'll be fine.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Remove all Republicans: The_Six_Fingered_Man: I thought all government spending was stimulus though. Was I misled?

The money from economic spending goes to regular Americans here who then spend the money. The money from military spending (when tons aren't lost in Iraq) is given the corporate executives like Dick Cheney, who just save it and don't spend a thing.

One is stimulus and the other is not.

So we aren't paying our soldiers, Marines, airman, and sailors? They don't pump that money back into their local economies when/if they return to the States?

/I really hate feeding you, but am unable not to bite.

Partially yes, but that's a minority of the budget that no one sane wants to cut. It's the rocket propelled tazer chainsaws that are several thousand dollars a shot that need to go away. The world thinks we're retarded because we're spending on military like it's WW3, when the current situation in the world is fairly peaceful. The cold war is over, the major powers of the world have stable governments, and our enemies are poorly armed and poorly trained. We shouldn't be less safe if we cut our military spending in half. However, the media and politians tell us everyday "FEARFEARFEARFEAR".

steelpeg: Diste

Well that still don't make shiat for sense

.

video man: the current situation in the world is fairly peaceful. The cold war is over, the major powers of the world have stable governments, and our enemies are poorly armed and poorly trained.

Someone doesn't know history. Or current events.

cameroncrazy1984: Teufel232: Oh, and thanks for now threatening even more jobs in this trying economy. Because instead of actually looking into where the wasteful spending is, I guarantee it will just be a cut to the budget, and so the companies will just start with the employees at the bottom.

I thought that you guys were all about capitalism. Make up your minds, jesus.

They're all for capitalism and cutting except when it comes to blowing stuff up. When you're talking about defense they crave a big government-run bureaucracy that awards lucrative contracts to cronies without competition and very little regard to spending efficiently, while at the same time cheering on spending countless billions on things we'll likely never even use.

video man: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Remove all Republicans: The_Six_Fingered_Man: I thought all government spending was stimulus though. Was I misled?

The money from economic spending goes to regular Americans here who then spend the money. The money from military spending (when tons aren't lost in Iraq) is given the corporate executives like Dick Cheney, who just save it and don't spend a thing.

One is stimulus and the other is not.

So we aren't paying our soldiers, Marines, airman, and sailors? They don't pump that money back into their local economies when/if they return to the States?

/I really hate feeding you, but am unable not to bite.

Partially yes, but that's a minority of the budget that no one sane wants to cut. It's the rocket propelled tazer chainsaws that are several thousand dollars a shot that need to go away. The world thinks we're retarded because we're spending on military like it's WW3, when the current situation in the world is fairly peaceful. The cold war is over, the major powers of the world have stable governments, and our enemies are poorly armed and poorly trained. We shouldn't be less safe if we cut our military spending in half. However, the media and politians tell us everyday "FEARFEARFEARFEAR".

Screw that. I want a rocket propelled tazer chainsaw.