Time Magazine: News of the 1990s. Today!

I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

Uchiha_Cycliste: I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

I dunno -- Click Tracks... Auto Tune... Audio Sampling... Digital Recording... sure they make it easy, but they tale away the human element. That happenstance where an accident becomes an advancement. Once you transition it into binary form... that type of "music" is just a basic mathematical equation on the level of "2+2=4".

/full time dreamer

RocketRod: but they tale away the human element

or "take away"

/w-e

RocketRod: Uchiha_Cycliste: I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

I dunno -- Click Tracks... Auto Tune... Audio Sampling... Digital Recording... sure they make it easy, but they tale away the human element. That happenstance where an accident becomes an advancement. Once you transition it into binary form... that type of "music" is just a basic mathematical equation on the level of "2+2=4".

/full time dreamer

If you're just talking about electronica that's been around for quite some time. Kraftwerk's Tour de France comes to mind. Prior to mastering stuff on a PC for yourself people just had equalizers attached to their stereo.
People will still go to concerts, girls will still obsessively swoon after the next big boy band. For every legitimate talent there will be a manufactured cash cow. Nothing has really changed, we just have a little more info on what's going on everywhere instead of just where we are.

When it comes to music, the Internet is never gonna let you down.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: When it comes to music, the Internet is never gonna let you down.

Is it ever gonna give you up?

I deny it. Sorry.

/forever is a long time

It all sounds a bit tinnier.

Next month: Napster, the new computer music thing all the kids are doing.

Let me know when it's changed enough to get me Jools Holland and His Millionaireson CD.

Uchiha_Cycliste: RocketRod: Uchiha_Cycliste: I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

I dunno -- Click Tracks... Auto Tune... Audio Sampling... Digital Recording... sure they make it easy, but they tale away the human element. That happenstance where an accident becomes an advancement. Once you transition it into binary form... that type of "music" is just a basic mathematical equation on the level of "2+2=4".

/full time dreamer

If you're just talking about electronica that's been around for quite some time. Kraftwerk's Tour de France comes to mind.

"Tour de France Soundtrack" was done in 2003 so I'm quite confused by your statement. There's a huge difference between Kraftwerk and electronic music today. To make a general statement, even electronic music made just a decade ago doesn't sound any where near the level of production the music is at currently. This isn't due to the internet, but computer processing power increasing tenfold since then.

Lord Snoopy's G.P.E.H.: Let me know when it's changed enough to get me Jools Holland and His Millionaireson CD.

How much do you want to pay? Musicstack.com will lead you to an LP/CD-R combo for 75 bucks.

/haven't tried 'em yet so you're on your own as far as that's concerned

The internet has made it really easy for people to get things long before they're available.

like the new Dave Matthews album that hadn't been leaked until CDs "unplayable in computers" were sent out to people for listening parties.

Apparently the music industry forgot that it's possible to dub CDs.

Glitchwerks: Uchiha_Cycliste: RocketRod: Uchiha_Cycliste: I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

I dunno -- Click Tracks... Auto Tune... Audio Sampling... Digital Recording... sure they make it easy, but they tale away the human element. That happenstance where an accident becomes an advancement. Once you transition it into binary form... that type of "music" is just a basic mathematical equation on the level of "2+2=4".

/full time dreamer

If you're just talking about electronica that's been around for quite some time. Kraftwerk's Tour de France comes to mind.

"Tour de France Soundtrack" was done in 2003 so I'm quite confused by your statement. There's a huge difference between Kraftwerk and electronic music today. To make a general statement, even electronic music made just a decade ago doesn't sound any where near the level of production the music is at currently. This isn't due to the internet, but computer processing power increasing tenfold since then.

Tour de france was done in 1983 iirc. Also, Trance/Techno music from 1999 sounds DAMN good. I wouldn't say the quality has changed at the top, just that it's become easier for those at the bottom to achieve production quality near what only the top could years ago. In this case, the music is still the same, there are just more producers.

albo: Time Magazine: News of the 1990s. Today!

It's nice to see Ric Romero is working his way up in the journalism world

Uchiha_Cycliste: Eddie Adams from Torrance: When it comes to music, the Internet is never gonna let you down.

Is it ever gonna give you up?

This has been my favorite fark quote today...Congrats Uchiha...you win the cookie.

Thanks, offacue. I'll give it a look!

mcgreggers99: Uchiha_Cycliste: Eddie Adams from Torrance: When it comes to music, the Internet is never gonna let you down.

Is it ever gonna give you up?

This has been my favorite fark quote today...Congrats Uchiha...you win the cookie.

yay! A cookie!

Uchiha_Cycliste: I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

I disagree with you on the sense that music is the same as it's always been.

the internet has allowed for collaboration between musicians that often times are located in another part of the country or even the world, part of a different culture, and may not even speak the same language and as such there is a good chance they may never actually meet in person. but they can send demo's/sample's to each other and create music. (though sometimes these collaborations are agreed upon during a prior meeting such as on tour, they actually recording is often done in different parts of the world if they musicians in question are unable to meet up and thusly are transferred over the internet in high quality and often make it onto albums. such cases include actually bands that are comprised of members in circumstances such as mentioned, but often times this is done when one is simply a guest musician, contributing vocals, or a guitar solo, etc.)

Uchiha_Cycliste: Tour de france was done in 1983 iirc. Also, Trance/Techno music from 1999 sounds DAMN good. I wouldn't say the quality has changed at the top, just that it's become easier for those at the bottom to achieve production quality near what only the top could years ago. In this case, the music is still the same, there are just more producers.

Yeah, you're right my bad. I was thinking of the album that was released in 2003. The single was not.

Good producers are able to a whole lot more. Take BT for example. His albums haven't "aged" and still sound pretty good, but his level of production now is absolutely berserk compared to what he used to do. There's tons going on and so forth.

Compare old Kraftwerk with Derrick May and then with BT. The difference is huge...that's what I'm trying to say through the cold medicine.

you can't deny that the internet has changed music forever

It really blew apart the business of getting people to buy an album just to get one song, and that was a huge part of the business.

It also took away the influence of old media and music critics. We can hear it for ourselves, you are not needed. Not, that you ever were.

It makes it infinitely easier to keep up with your favorite bands/people, and see what they are up to, where they are playing.

Everyone said MTV changed music forever. Apparently, the network felt very bad about their profound effect on the industry they've switched to hackjob reality television.

Youtube Symphony Orchestra. Not a fundamental change in music, but an interesting one.

I think it has in a couple of important ways.

1. The IPOD has made it more convenient to listen to, and this has increased demand. Let's face it, unless you have a lot of time on your hands, most people just don't spend a lot of time sitting around their sound system and listening to music - at least I know I didn't. I'd listen to the radio in the car or maybe put the radio one what I was doing something around the house.

But with the MP3 player, I can take my music anywhere. Since I got my IPOD a couple of years ago, I've purchased more music than I did in the last 10 years, just because I have more opportunities to listen.

I also think the ability to create and distribute music bodes well for the listeners (and musicians) but not necessarily the industry as a whole. The article mentioned that today, there are only a few music conglomerates and only a few outlets via radio. Since the companies are heavily invested into big acts, the overall success of the company is tied to the success of proven performers who can move CDs. Since the big acts have to move units, the companies increasingly put promo dollars being progressive fewer and fewer acts and spend less time finding the new acts.

But back in the old days, there were lots of smaller record companies who were willing to take chances on new acts, and the viability of the new acts was decided by the consumer, not in the boardroom. The first hit by Elvis was made in a storefront studio, and distributed by a local record company.

Now that production and distribution is in the hands of the musician, I see a lot of potential. Instead of waiting for the big record deal, bands can produce, copyright, and distribute their own work.

If I was younger, had musical talent, and a band - this is how I'd do it.

Step One - Play Gigs. This I what all bands do. You do enough gigs, and if you're good enough, you eventually develop a following. You start off doing covers, but eventually you write you own songs. Once you do that, you copyright and record them.

Step Two - Work with Itunes and Rhapsody to sell your songs online. The online retailers don't have to maintain an expensive inventory and manufacturing/distribution network, so they'll make money off you, even if you only sell a few copies of your songs. This is the key difference between softcopy and hardcopy music selling. Before you had to convince the big music companies you could sell CDs to make it worth their while, with MP3 music, the retailer is concerned with overall volume. Even if you're still at this point obscure, the larger total inventory a MP3 retailer has, the better for them.

Step Three - Build you internet presence. Though your web site and facebook (or whatever else comes along). Get your name out there, promote your web site at your gigs, promote you gigs though your web site.
Step Four - Give away one or two songs and encourage your fans to pass them around. Hopefully, they'll send it around to their friends, and their friends. Some of those people will hopefully buy the rest of you catalog.

Step Five - Keep playing gigs. That's why you got into music in the first place. Instead of worrying about impressing some record company pogue, all you have to do is impress your fans.

Step Six - If that record company does come along, instead of jumping at the deal, you'll be in a much better position to negotiate your deal. You essentially already have your own record deal with a better share of the profits.

Just my opinion.

offacue: Lord Snoopy's G.P.E.H.: Let me know when it's changed enough to get me Jools Holland and His Millionaireson CD.

How much do you want to pay? Musicstack.com will lead you to an LP/CD-R combo for 75 bucks.
/haven't tried 'em yet so you're on your own as far as that's concerned

I found it on eBay for 12 Euros including shipping from Germany

Thanks Subby.
Are you gonna sit me down on your knee and give me a Werther's Original now?

kevinfra: I think it has in a couple of important ways.

1. The IPOD has made it more convenient to listen to, and this has increased demand. Let's face it, unless you have a lot of time on your hands, most people just don't spend a lot of time sitting around their sound system and listening to music - at least I know I didn't. I'd listen to the radio in the car or maybe put the radio one what I was doing something around the house.

But with the MP3 player, I can take my music anywhere. Since I got my IPOD a couple of years ago, I've purchased more music than I did in the last 10 years, just because I have more opportunities to listen.

I also think the ability to create and distribute music bodes well for the listeners (and musicians) but not necessarily the industry as a whole. The article mentioned that today, there are only a few music conglomerates and only a few outlets via radio. Since the companies are heavily invested into big acts, the overall success of the company is tied to the success of proven performers who can move CDs. Since the big acts have to move units, the companies increasingly put promo dollars being progressive fewer and fewer acts and spend less time finding the new acts.

But back in the old days, there were lots of smaller record companies who were willing to take chances on new acts, and the viability of the new acts was decided by the consumer, not in the boardroom. The first hit by Elvis was made in a storefront studio, and distributed by a local record company.

Now that production and distribution is in the hands of the musician, I see a lot of potential. Instead of waiting for the big record deal, bands can produce, copyright, and distribute their own work.

If I was younger, had musical talent, and a band - this is how I'd do it.

Step One - Play Gigs. This I what all bands do. You do enough gigs, and if you're good enough, you eventually develop a following. You start off doing covers, but eventually you write you own songs. Once you do that, you copyright and record them.

Step Two - Work with Itunes and Rhapsody to sell your songs online. The online retailers don't have to maintain an expensive inventory and manufacturing/distribution network, so they'll make money off you, even if you only sell a few copies of your songs. This is the key difference between softcopy and hardcopy music selling. Before you had to convince the big music companies you could sell CDs to make it worth their while, with MP3 music, the retailer is concerned with overall volume. Even if you're still at this point obscure, the larger total inventory a MP3 retailer has, the better for them.

Step Three - Build you internet presence. Though your web site and facebook (or whatever else comes along). Get your name out there, promote your web site at your gigs, promote you gigs though your web site.
Step Four - Give away one or two songs and encourage your fans to pass them around. Hopefully, they'll send it around to their friends, and their friends. Some of those people will hopefully buy the rest of you catalog.

Step Five - Keep playing gigs. That's why you got into music in the first place. Instead of worrying about impressing some record company pogue, all you have to do is impress your fans.

Step Six - If that record company does come along, instead of jumping at the deal, you'll be in a much better position to negotiate your deal. You essentially already have your own record deal with a better share of the profits.

Just my opinion.

I agree with just about everything you just said.

/I mean THIS.

Reach and touch everyone.

Uchiha_Cycliste: mcgreggers99: Uchiha_Cycliste: Eddie Adams from Torrance: When it comes to music, the Internet is never gonna let you down.

Is it ever gonna give you up?

This has been my favorite fark quote today...Congrats Uchiha...you win the cookie.

yay! A cookie!

The cookie is cursed.

Uchiha_Cycliste 2009-05-21 01:38:18 PM
I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

1) In what way is it still the same?
and
2) How can you say that?

As for the article: We discuss all this last week. New topic, pls.

RevMercutio: Uchiha_Cycliste: mcgreggers99: Uchiha_Cycliste: Eddie Adams from Torrance: When it comes to music, the Internet is never gonna let you down.

Is it ever gonna give you up?

This has been my favorite fark quote today...Congrats Uchiha...you win the cookie.

yay! A cookie!

The cookie is cursed.

that's bad!

mfaby: Uchiha_Cycliste 2009-05-21 01:38:18 PM
I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

1) In what way is it still the same?
and
2) How can you say that?

As for the article: We discuss all this last week. New topic, pls.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that music is music is music. Harmonies, melodies, chords. chorus, the goal being to convey a message, tell a story, impart a warning and to do it in a way that is pleasant to listen too.
I guess it makes more sense to have a counter example. In Bill and Ted's excellent adventure, the music changed right? This just seems to highlight how much easier it is to collaborate, network, accumulate and experience the music. Pop is still pop, punk is still punk metal, etc. This is an industry and a grouping of people around the music. But the music is at the heart of it all, and is static.

Music is made by people playing instruments. Recorded music is a facsimile of actual real music (that is played by people)

/for the sake of term clarification
//yes electronica folk, you are outliers.

...or that there hasn't been a listenable song written since 1975...

If you're talking about the 1975 chart topping hit Love Will Keep Us Together by Captain and Tennille then I'm right there with you, subby. Music has never been the same.

kevinfra: But with the MP3 player, I can take my music anywhere.

Ah-ha! There's the rub!

When did it become "your music"? Growing up with albums, 8-tracks, cassettes and CDs it was never "our music". It was just "music".

Self-entitlement and overdeveloped egos do not make it "your music".

Boyd Schidt: f you're talking about the 1975 chart topping hit Love Will Keep Us Together by Captain and Tennille then I'm right there with you, subby. Music has never been the same.

FAIL

the superior Muskrat Love came out in 1976. so that's the year the music started dying

RocketRod: kevinfra: But with the MP3 player, I can take my music anywhere.

Ah-ha! There's the rub!

When did it become "your music"? Growing up with albums, 8-tracks, cassettes and CDs it was never "our music". It was just "music".

Self-entitlement and overdeveloped egos do not make it "your music".

IMHO, It's more personal now because you can almost perfectly customize your collection: every track you want, none that you don't, for less (or nothing if you "steal" music). Instead of a handful of albums, you have a body of music that thoroughly defines your tastes.

I'd rather win a KVR monthly contest (new window) than be played on local terrestrial radio. I also prefer to jam out on my patio after work with a cig and a beer and maybe record on the cheap mic on my mp3 player instead of going to a studio. And meanwhile I'm glad to get the chance to see Ronald Jenkees jam out on Utube. And Garbage Day on SA keeps it real.

The third Q&A of TFA seems to show the guy has at least a decent handle on the stats and history and situation - and the one hit wonder thing? Equally valid. There's the maxim "You get 6 years to write your first album, and they give you 6 months to write your second" at play too. What I disagree with is the notion that a multi-genre topping success is a thing of the past. Thriller? Great album (each track a masterpiece of the single with repeat listening quality). But Hotel California? Somebody can pull that off again one day. Thanks to the 'net, it'll be just incredible.

/would rather play on a street corner for change than in a bar...would rather play in a concert hall than on a street corner...

Uchiha_Cycliste 2009-05-21 06:20:36 PM
mfaby: Uchiha_Cycliste 2009-05-21 01:38:18 PM
I gotta disagree there. Music is the same as its always been. The only thing that's changed is how people get it, and possibly where they hear about it from.

1) In what way is it still the same?
and
2) How can you say that?

As for the article: We discuss all this last week. New topic, pls.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that music is music is music. Harmonies, melodies, chords. chorus, the goal being to convey a message, tell a story, impart a warning and to do it in a way that is pleasant to listen too.
I guess it makes more sense to have a counter example. In Bill and Ted's excellent adventure, the music changed right? This just seems to highlight how much easier it is to collaborate, network, accumulate and experience the music. Pop is still pop, punk is still punk metal, etc. This is an industry and a grouping of people around the music. But the music is at the heart of it all, and is static.

Got it. Thanks.

American Idol is the phenomenon. But it remains to be seen whether any of these artists will truly have a 10-year career.

I think that Carrie Underwood will last that long. She has been getting more popular in the country community each year.

Wrong_Intentions:
IMHO, It's more personal now because you can almost perfectly customize your collection: every track you want, none that you don't, for less (or nothing if you "steal" music). Instead of a handful of albums, you have a body of music that thoroughly defines limits your tastes.

FTFY ;-)

NYRBill: Wrong_Intentions:
IMHO, It's more personal now because you can almost perfectly customize your collection: every track you want, none that you don't, for less (or nothing if you "steal" music). Instead of a handful of albums, you have a body of music that thoroughly defines limits your tastes.

FTFY ;-)

It limits them a lot less than buying albums one at a time for $12-18 bucks a pop. (For the record, I think my 4700 songs from 400+ artists is a pretty broad limit.)

Wrong_Intentions: It limits them a lot less than buying albums one at a time for $12-18 bucks a pop. (For the record, I think my 4700 songs from 400+ artists is a pretty broad limit.)

I'm more of a whole album kind of guy, personally. I'm not gonna buy something if I know I won't like it or listen to it in a year's time, as well.

I've only got about 1700 songs, but this is good in two ways: 1) I don't go through 100 songs looking for the one I want, and 2) I don't come off as a pretentious dickbag when I brag about how much music I have. I'm not saying you are, but as far as music is concerned it's certainly not quantity over quality.

Wrong_Intentions: NYRBill: Wrong_Intentions:
IMHO, It's more personal now because you can almost perfectly customize your collection: every track you want, none that you don't, for less (or nothing if you "steal" music). Instead of a handful of albums, you have a body of music that thoroughly defines limits your tastes.

FTFY ;-)

It limits them a lot less than buying albums one at a time for $12-18 bucks a pop. (For the record, I think my 4700 songs from 400+ artists is a pretty broad limit.)

C'mon...someone out there must have 4701 songs on their X-Pod or Mp3Man or whateverthefark they're called.

John Buck 41:
C'mon...someone out there must have 4701 songs on their X-Pod or Mp3Man or whateverthefark they're called.

LOL. What, are you trying to start a pissing contest or something?

I bought my first record in 1967. OK, I was 7, my parents had to buy Monkees Headquarters for me, but I've been a music fanatic since that time. I love music more than I ever have and there's been some good and bad changes.

Good: access to music that I never would have never known about if it weren't for the Intertubes. Sure, we had our rock magazines back then, but they were corporate filters so a lot of the weirder/edgier stuff never got mentioned. Now I can search "Belgian prog rock" or "old school Goa Trance" and find new stuff to listen to. I love 20th century opera and classical music and the Net (espcially BitTorrent sites) has been a godsend for finding the atonal/12-tone/serialist stuff I like.

Bad: having to wade through a lot of crap to get to the good stuff; sure Rolling Stone sucks goat balls, but they did kinda act as a bullshiat detector. Bands and solo artists also seem to have careers measured in months now because there's not that big corporation willing to say "OK, you only sold 20,000 copies of your first album, but we believe in you, you have decent fanbases in 4 or 5 cities, let's get a really good record from you and we'll finance you touring your asses off".

Yes is a perfect example of that: their first two albums did horribly for Atlantic and they were in danger of getting dropped, but they had someone at the record company who loved them, they made a key personnel change (bringing in Steve Howe), made a great record, The Yes Album and within 2 years they were headlining on the hockey arena circuit.

Good luck to all the struggling musicians out there, the music industry as we knew it from the 1950's to early 90's was a horrible, shiatty, exploitative hell-hole, but it did have its upsides.

Music today seem oriented more toward singles and hits whereas it seems more album centric in the 70s and 80s. I think the iPod/Rhapsody makes buying individual songs too easy so artists focus on the big hit.

ELP's Brain Salad Surgery would never work in today's market. People would pay to download "Still...You Turn Me On" and Karn Evil 9 1st impression part 2 but that's would be about it. Few would get the the refrain of Jerusalem in Karn Evil 9 3st impression would never/rarely be heard.

Its a sad loss.

mfaby: Got it. Thanks.

Serious question on my part, did you get it? Or are you taunting me? (which is fine, I often deserve it). My response was kind of rambling and I'm quite tired right now. So I'm not entirely sure I expressed my thoughts lucidly, nor is my sarcasmeter calibrated.
Sprinted to work yesterday, rode home, Wrenched all night, test rode new bike, wrenched, sprinted to work on said beautiful awesome new baby, rode home. 's been over 100mi and 2 work days since I last slept.