You know, if it ends up in a re-vote, not a problem.

With all the shiat that Coleman and the GOP have done in this race, he will lose handily. I don't see anything but the staunch Republicans voting for him, and even some of them will vote for Franken due to the way Coleman has played this thing.

Personally I would love to look at all those absentee ballots and count them, see who would end up winning. Would be hilarious if it was Franken still.

As I understand it, this is Coleman's 'hail mary' play. Franken has this thing done and over with. And since Arlen jumped ship, that means the Democrats will have a super majority in the US Senate.

hmm.

All of which makes me wonder just how desperate the Republicans are...how far will they go to keep Franken from taking his seat? Once this case is done and Franken is sworn in, the Republicans are essentially done in D.C. They won't be able to do much of anything at all. As it stands they're barely relevant, but this is the nail in their coffin until the slim possiblity of a recovery in 2010. So just how far will they push this? how desperate are they to keep Franken out?

*ponder*

spidermann: You know, if it ends up in a re-vote, not a problem.

Yeah, but a revote plays right into their strategy. The Republicans need to play for time. If/when Franken takes his seat, the Democrats will have COMPLETE control of the US senate. They need to keep this seat contested. The longer they delay, the better it suits their overall legislative goals in D.C.

Those votes were thrown out. There is nothing else to count, Franken wins, gets Senate seat.

GAT_00: Those votes were thrown out. There is nothing else to count, Franken wins, gets Senate seat.

...and the Republicans lose even the illusion of control and authority.

Like I said - i'm wondering how far they'll go to avoid that eventuality.

I'd expect them to turn to violence, as they've indicated a willingness to do anyway. They have become a dangerously deranged wounded animal at this point, would anyone really be surprised if they resorted to domestic terrorism ?

Is there a political position NOT occupied by a celebrity in that state?

Nothing against Franken, have his books and love them, but I'm waiting for Herschel Walker to finally get his seat in the House of Representatives.

Weaver95: GAT_00: Those votes were thrown out. There is nothing else to count, Franken wins, gets Senate seat.

...and the Republicans lose even the illusion of control and authority.

Like I said - i'm wondering how far they'll go to avoid that eventuality.

I think Coleman has been hinting that he may bring it to the SCOTUS, which is pretty funny what with the GOP usually for "State's rights."

There WON'T be a revote, we already voted and Franken won.

We had a state-mandated, transparent, bi-partisan recount of said votes, and Franken won.

We had a court case regarding this contest, and Franken won.

Norm, seriously, just let it go.

Freakpower: Is there a political position NOT occupied by a celebrity in that state?

Nothing against Franken, have his books and love them, but I'm waiting for Herschel Walker to finally get his seat in the House of Representatives.

WTF are you talking about?

Coleman wants the court to presume that a voter who got an absentee ballot was registered, their witness was authorized and they put their genuine signature on it.

He has long contended that officials in some places took a harder reading of the law than others, meaning ballots ruled eligible in one county would be disqualified in another.

So the ones taking the straight "rules" approach were in the wrong...

Damn following rules!!!!!

FTFA: Minnesota has four reasons for rejecting an absentee ballot: the voter wasn't registered, they failed to sign the ballot, their witness wasn't qualified and they cast another ballot.

Coleman wants the court to presume that a voter who got an absentee ballot was registered, their witness was authorized and they put their genuine signature on it.

This is far more than a Hail Mary play, Weaver95. He basically wants MN to ignore the requirements of an absentee ballot. He's sunk. I know the GOP is riding Coleman & Pawlenty hard to avoid Franken being seated, but this is just ludicrous. But at least this is the last filing. Once these judges rule, Coleman's finished unless he wants to completely trash what's left of his career by going to SCOTUS.

June should be an interesting month...

brigid_fitch: This is far more than a Hail Mary play, Weaver95. He basically wants MN to ignore the requirements of an absentee ballot. He's sunk. I know the GOP is riding Coleman & Pawlenty hard to avoid Franken being seated, but this is just ludicrous. But at least this is the last filing. Once these judges rule, Coleman's finished unless he wants to completely trash what's left of his career by going to SCOTUS.

June should be an interesting month...

I think the Republican party is desperate enough to push this issue to SCOTUS. Once Franken is sworn in, that's it. They're done. This IS their 'darkest hour' and they know it.

The Onanist: I think Coleman has been hinting that he may bring it to the SCOTUS, which is pretty funny what with the GOP usually for "State's rights."

The guy playing Jim Baker (Bush's head guy during the Florida debacle) in Recount made the same sarcastic point when talking about how Bush/Cheney had to get the case into the Federal courts, and ultimately the US Supreme Court, because the Florida Supreme Court was hopelessly liberal/Democratic.

Mordant: I'd expect them to turn to violence, as they've indicated a willingness to do anyway. They have become a dangerously deranged wounded animal at this point, would anyone really be surprised if they resorted to domestic terrorism ?

Weaver95: I think the Republican party is desperate enough to push this issue to SCOTUS. Once Franken is sworn in, that's it. They're done. This IS their 'darkest hour' and they know it

I keep hearing all about how horrible it would be for the GOP to lose what small, small, small amount of power they have left in the Senate, but I'm really not so sure. What, exactly, could the GOP do even if Coleman had won outright in the first place? The only thing they can do from the Senate is desperate procedural gambits that will probably end up hurting them more than helping them.

Frankly, I think the GOP has better prospects in the long term if they're forced to step back a little from day-to-day political fights like filibusters so they have some time to purge the lingering stench of Bush and his lackies. And if you want to wash away the stench of Bush, the last people you want to be your public face are the very same Republican Congresscritters who did nothing but rubber-stamp his policies while frittering away their own political capital on social wedge issues that got them nowhere. More of that won't save the GOP.

The whole fiasco of the post-Bush GOP is actually very demonstrative of the greatest weakness of American political parties- they can't change. If they lose an election, they have no institutional mechanism (like British leadership votes) to throw out the old guys. They really have no choice but to run on the same message in 2010 and maybe 2012, because they have no choice but to run the same incumbent politicians. A party that's just been tossed out in our system doesn'tt have the functional equivalent of an internal leadership vote until the next Presidential primaries roll around, which means an extremely dysfunctional opposition during those four years. The fact that the always-contradictory GOP coalition of limited gov't, moral authoritarianism, and American imperialism is flying apart at the seams just makes for a double-whammy of dysfunction.

The Onanist: Freakpower: Is there a political position NOT occupied by a celebrity in that state?

Nothing against Franken, have his books and love them, but I'm waiting for Herschel Walker to finally get his seat in the House of Representatives.

WTF are you talking about?

I realize Jesse "The Mind" isn't Governor anymore, and maybe I'm just overreacting, but every time I see a celebrity go into politics I shudder.

Mind you, I like Franken for the most part, but his celebrity has to be one of the things getting him into office. I just don't find that to be very fair in the long run, that's all.

Of course, from what I hear, it's certainly better than Coleman being there, so what the hell.

It would probably be best for the GOP to split into two or more parties at this point. There are at least two distinct factions among them.

Might be a good thing in the long run.CougarJeff: Mordant: I'd expect them to turn to violence, as they've indicated a willingness to do anyway. They have become a dangerously deranged wounded animal at this point, would anyone really be surprised if they resorted to domestic terrorism ?

www.911review.com

That's what came to mind for me as well. All it takes is one or two uber-crackpots to start blowed stuff up in a deranged form of retaliation.

Weaver95: I think the Republican party is desperate enough to push this issue to SCOTUS. Once Franken is sworn in, that's it. They're done. This IS their 'darkest hour' and they know it.

Even if this IS sent to the SCOTUS, Pawlenty will have to sign the election certificate because the STATE's contest will have been decided (in Franken's favor).

Weaver95: This IS their 'darkest hour' and they know it.

[!]

Freakpower: I realize Jesse "The Mind" isn't Governor anymore, and maybe I'm just overreacting, but every time I see a celebrity go into politics I shudder.

The statement you made about Minnesota having a bunch of celebrities in office drew my "WTF."

Ventura was the only celebrity thus far, Franken is about to be the second. And I am pretty sure Franken will do a good job as Senator, he's a pretty sharp guy.

Having Rush Limbaugh's head asplode is just icing on the cake.

Freakpower: The Onanist: Freakpower: Is there a political position NOT occupied by a celebrity in that state?

Nothing against Franken, have his books and love them, but I'm waiting for Herschel Walker to finally get his seat in the House of Representatives.

WTF are you talking about?

I realize Jesse "The Mind" isn't Governor anymore, and maybe I'm just overreacting, but every time I see a celebrity go into politics I shudder.

Mind you, I like Franken for the most part, but his celebrity has to be one of the things getting him into office. I just don't find that to be very fair in the long run, that's all.

Of course, from what I hear, it's certainly better than Coleman being there, so what the hell.

While I'm sure they always get corrupted (Arnold and his even-worse-than-Davis budgets being the prime example), I'd gladly take someone who first had an independent career over a professional politician. If that's all I had to go on, anyway. And I'd gladly take Franken over the average Democratic Senator.

abb3w: Weaver95: This IS their 'darkest hour' and they know it.


[!]

You know, I'm not convinced. Spector and Nelson seem to enjoy being in the spotlight too much to cede the upcoming opperuntities to be 'centrists'.

I thought of the most awesome, most ultimate dick move Al Franken could ever pull off.

If/when (I know, I know) Coleman is finally told "No, stop it. Shut up." And Franken is seated, Al says, "Well, Norm's been such a great sport and a really gracious player here, so I'm sending him this."

Weaver95: spidermann: You know, if it ends up in a re-vote, not a problem.

Yeah, but a revote plays right into their strategy.


Temporarily, yes. But it becomes grist for the 2010 mill, potentially costing them even more.

If that's their strategy, it's a very short-sighted one, IMO.

The Onanist: Having Rush Limbaugh's head asplode is just icing on the cake.

You're right. That does make it worth it 100%. I retract my shudder.

Also I guess there is a big disparity between Athlete/Actors going into office and Comedian/Actors going into office.

CougarJeff: Mordant: I'd expect them to turn to violence, as they've indicated a willingness to do anyway. They have become a dangerously deranged wounded animal at this point, would anyone really be surprised if they resorted to domestic terrorism ?

It would never surprise me to learn that America's conservative enemies have turned to terrorism. They are evil cowards and traitors, the lot of them.

Luckily for the country, they are not in a position to continue the "economic terrorism" they have put us through for the last 8 years.

Freakpower: Is there a political position NOT occupied by a celebrity in that state?

Nothing against Franken, have his books and love them, but I'm waiting for Herschel Walker to finally get his seat in the House of Representatives.

Would you settle for Alan Page (Vikings/Bears Hall of Famer) hearing the case as an Associate Justice on the MN Supreme Court?

FloydA: Weaver95: spidermann: You know, if it ends up in a re-vote, not a problem.

Yeah, but a revote plays right into their strategy.


Temporarily, yes. But it becomes grist for the 2010 mill, potentially costing them even more.

If that's their strategy, it's a very short-sighted one, IMO.

it's not like i've seen evidence of any long term planning out of this crew, so why start to think they've suddenly developed that kind of ability?

Freakpower: The Onanist: Having Rush Limbaugh's head asplode is just icing on the cake.

You're right. That does make it worth it 100%. I retract my shudder.

Also I guess there is a big disparity between Athlete/Actors going into office and Comedian/Actors going into office.

It will be fun listening to him. He's getting more and more shrill lately, I wonder if he's backsliding.

By the time Franken is finally sworn in, he will have missed 1/12 of his term due to this bullshiat.

Craptastic: By the time Franken is finally sworn in, he will have missed 1/12 of his term due to this bullshiat.

I would want my back pay!

Craptastic: By the time Franken is finally sworn in, he will have missed 1/12 of his term due to this bullshiat.

And in 2014, the attack ads will start off with "Franken did absolutely nothing the first 6 months of his term"...

Weaver95: As I understand it, this is Coleman's 'hail mary' play. Franken has this thing done and over with. And since Arlen jumped ship, that means the Democrats will have a super majority in the US Senate.

hmm.

All of which makes me wonder just how desperate the Republicans are...how far will they go to keep Franken from taking his seat? Once this case is done and Franken is sworn in, the Republicans are essentially done in D.C. They won't be able to do much of anything at all. As it stands they're barely relevant, but this is the nail in their coffin until the slim possiblity of a recovery in 2010. So just how far will they push this? how desperate are they to keep Franken out?

*ponder*

You are assuming Specter goes along with the democrats on everything. FAR from a sure thing, unfortunately.

Jonny Chimpo: Craptastic: By the time Franken is finally sworn in, he will have missed 1/12 of his term due to this bullshiat.

And in 2014, the attack ads will start off with "Franken did absolutely nothing the first 6 months of his term"...

Man, that would be funny if it wasn't absolutely true.

spidermann: You know, if it ends up in a re-vote, not a problem.

So you advocate changing election laws in the middle of an election? Which is completely and utterly stupid. MN law is clear. He (or she) with the most votes wins. Period.

Once this contest is over we can reevaluate our laws and make the appropriate adjustments but outside some minor issues - everything has worked the way its supposed to.

RemyDuron: You are assuming Specter goes along with the democrats on everything. FAR from a sure thing, unfortunately.

Arlen is on thin ice and he knows it. The Republicans consider him an apostate traitor and the voters in his home state despise him as a spineless opportunist. He's jumped ship to the Democrats and has nowhere else to go. If he tries to pull *any* stunts, he's out in 2010 and he knows it.

The Onanist: Ventura was the only celebrity thus far, Franken is about to be the second. And I am pretty sure Franken will do a good job as Senator, he's a pretty sharp guy.

And Ventura wasn't bad a governor. Unfortunately the Senate and the House were in opposite parties hands and couldn't deal with the fact that he won (Coleman's "concenssion" speech was priceless). And Ventura had some listening issues.

I think Coleman has proved that he is selfish with no desire to serve the people of Minnesota. The GOP has also proved that they are more concerned about a senate seat that good politics. Hopefully they will learn a hard lesson from this.

That being said Franken needs to stop with the motions to have the election certified. There is a legal process to be followed and until it finishes Franken needs to be patient. Pawlenty has done the right thing in not certifying the election till the case has played out.

Weaver95: RemyDuron: You are assuming Specter goes along with the democrats on everything. FAR from a sure thing, unfortunately.

Arlen is on thin ice and he knows it. The Republicans consider him an apostate traitor and the voters in his home state despise him as a spineless opportunist. He's jumped ship to the Democrats and has nowhere else to go. If he tries to pull *any* stunts, he's out in 2010 and he knows it.

Is that why a supposedly pro-choice Specter is opposed to the appointment of Dawn Johnson? He's a serial attention-whore of the worst kind. R or D, that won't change.

Shamwow: I think Coleman has proved that he is selfish with no desire to serve the people of Minnesota. The GOP has also proved that they are more concerned about a senate seat that good politics. Hopefully they will learn a hard lesson from this.

That being said Franken needs to stop with the motions to have the election certified. There is a legal process to be followed and until it finishes Franken needs to be patient. Pawlenty has done the right thing in not certifying the election till the case has played out.

I disagree. I think Coleman is well within his rights to go to the MN Supreme Court. If he pushes it beyond that - the backlash will be deafening.

Both our Secretary of State (Democrat) and Governor (Republican) have stated they would not certify the election until all state challenges have been resolved. What will be interesting will be what they will do once the MN Supreme Court rules and if Coleman appeals beyond. Will Pawlenty sign or not sign the certification? and what will happen?

Churchill2004: I keep hearing all about how horrible it would be for the GOP to lose what small, small, small amount of power they have left in the Senate, but I'm really not so sure. What, exactly, could the GOP do even if Coleman had won outright in the first place? The only thing they can do from the Senate is desperate procedural gambits that will probably end up hurting them more than helping them.

Frankly, I think the GOP has better prospects in the long term if they're forced to step back a little from day-to-day political fights like filibusters so they have some time to purge the lingering stench of Bush and his lackies. And if you want to wash away the stench of Bush, the last people you want to be your public face are the very same Republican Congresscritters who did nothing but rubber-stamp his policies while frittering away their own political capital on social wedge issues that got them nowhere. More of that won't save the GOP.

The Republican Party has not shown any proclivity for thinking in the long-term for the last nine years or so.

Ace Frehley's Ghost: The Republican Party has not shown any proclivity for thinking in the long-term for the last nine years or so.

Which is why if there ever is any kind of successful opposition political movement under Obama, it won't come from the Republican Party as we know it. The GOP's own institutional inertia is Obama's biggest ally, and you can tell he knows it when he props up things like the "Limbaugh leads the Republicans" meme.

Churchill2004: The GOP's own institutional inertia is Obama's biggest ally, and you can tell he knows it when he props up things like the "Limbaugh leads the Republicans" meme.

the best part of all that was watching a couple Republican members of Congress being forced to offer on air apologies to Limbaugh for daring to disagree with El Rushbo, then listening to the Republican leadership say 'Rush ain't our leader'. Followed promptly by an apology by the leader of the RNC to Mr. Limbaugh.....

Mordant: I'd expect them to turn to violence, as they've indicated a willingness to do anyway. They have become a dangerously deranged wounded animal at this point, would anyone really be surprised if they resorted to domestic terrorism ?

The danger is, of course, that someone from the wharrgarbl set does something stupid such that Obama can't ignore it. Whatever security action he subsequently takes will fit into the current narrative neatly, prompting even more militant activity. Prediction: American civil war v2.0. The south will lose this one, too.

Churchill2004: Ace Frehley's Ghost: The Republican Party has not shown any proclivity for thinking in the long-term for the last nine years or so.

Which is why if there ever is any kind of successful opposition political movement under Obama, it won't come from the Republican Party as we know it. The GOP's own institutional inertia is Obama's biggest ally, and you can tell he knows it when he props up things like the "Limbaugh leads the Republicans" meme.

You're dead on. Personally I'm hoping the GOP flounders in 2010 and 2012, letting the democrats get quite a bit done to undo the rightward tilt things have had since Reagan, maybe since Nixon. Maybe scoot our "center" to the left to begin to bring us in line with the rest of the developed world. Then, when the democrats get too full of themselves, too corrupt (power corrupts, always, given enough time), then I hope a younger, more modern, less socially concerned conservative party, be it the GOP or something new, comes up and puts them in their place. I do not agree with conservatives, even moderate conservatives, on the economy, but I do not think one party rule can work. Not in our country.

The Dems will enjoy their majority until 2010. Of course, we'll be in a depression by then, but at least there will be fewer Keynesians in Washington.

RemyDuron: I do not think one party rule can work. Not in our country.

That's a real nice thing to say after the spectacular, flaming implosion from within of the other party. Do you think that they'll reassemble themselves so that we have two party rule?

I don't think I've ever heard of a re-vote in a House or Senate election...or anything above high school student council.

Stupid MN voters would just deadlock again anyway.

godofusa.com: The Dems will enjoy their majority until 2010. Of course, we'll be in a depression by then, but at least there will be fewer Keynesians in Washington.

So, by your expectations, the GOP will regain the majority in 19 months? WTF? We're just about to go to Torture Rama investigation 09.