So tell the jury she prayed herself well.

If she don't have a fit, you must acquit.

Barbarians.

Neumann has said her family believes in the Bible, which says healing comes from God, and she never expected her daughter to die.

Because if there's one thing I learned from reading the Bible, it's that no one dies, ever. And God never kills innocent people to teach others lessons.

Chinchillazilla: Neumann has said her family believes in the Bible, which says healing comes from God, and she never expected her daughter to die.

Because if there's one thing I learned from reading the Bible, it's that no one dies, ever. And God never kills innocent people to teach others lessons.

Well if you actually had read the Bible you would realize that no one ever does actually die. The whole Eternal life through Christ as your Savior part. Yeah, that is the part of the Bible we are talking about with this lady.

Feel free to be an Atheist, just try not to be an idiot. Sure the woman is a total moron, but misstating the views of a billion Christians does not make you look enlightened.

Panic attack, hopefully her conscious coming after her for allowing her daughter to die. "Spiritual attack." What a BS way of saying that you're completely psycho.

Grr, that should obviously be conscience. Spell check does not compensate for tiredness.

feckingmorons: Well if you actually had read the Bible you would realize that no one ever does actually die. The whole Eternal life through Christ as your Savior part. Yeah, that is the part of the Bible we are talking about with this lady.

Feel free to be an Atheist, just try not to be an idiot. Sure the woman is a total moron, but misstating the views of a billion Christians does not make you look enlightened.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part of the New Testament where Jesus says not to go to the doctor.

The archaic beliefs of these 'no medicine' idiots is derived entirely from the Old Testament. Feel free to rail against people you accuse of being atheists, but please know what you're talking about first.

This woman deserves to go to prison and have her uterus removed from the gene pool.

feckingmorons: *whargarrbl*

feckingmorons, what you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever read. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I think there are cases where parents are in the right denying medical treatment. THIS is not one of them.

feckingmorons: Well if you actually had read the Bible you would realize that no one ever does actually die.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Good farking lord. Talking out your ass while railing at someone else for being an idiot is the height of dumbassery. The last I knew, the Old Testament is still part of the Christian Bible. LOTS of people die.

just try not to be an idiot.

Before trying to remove the splinter from your brother's eye, remove the plank from thy own eye.

SpaceyCat: Before trying to remove the splinter from your brother's eye, remove the plank from thy own eye.

That tactic is useless. They don't care what Jesus actually says. In their eyes, 'liberals' have ruined the notion of Jesus by, you know, actually reading and comprehending the gospels. Without the liberal spin, the Bible clearly indicates that Jesus was all about supply-side economics, waterboarding, and hate.

It is a Christmas miracle!!!! In May.....

feckingmorons: the views of a billion Christians does not make you look enlightened.

The views of a billion Christians are holding back mankind from greater things.

Keep your magical beliefs out of my society, I would rather move forward.

Chinchillazilla: Neumann has said her family believes in the Bible, which says healing comes from God, and she never expected her daughter to die.

Because if there's one thing I learned from reading the Bible, it's that no one dies, ever. And God never kills innocent people to teach others lessons.

what really amused me was this, two lines later: The family does not belong to an organized religion or faith, Neumann has said.

mr_bunny: The views of a billion Christians are holding back mankind from greater things.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."- Gandhi

If Christians actually followed the teachings of christ, we'd have a lot better world.

Gwendolyn: I think there are cases where parents are in the right denying medical treatment.

Are you saying that there are cases where parents are in the right denying medical treatment for religious reasons? I'd be curious to know what those are, if so.

Action Replay Nick: That tactic is useless. They don't care what Jesus actually says. In their eyes, 'liberals' have ruined the notion of Jesus by, you know, actually reading and comprehending the gospels. Without the liberal spin, the Bible clearly indicates that Jesus was all about supply-side economics, waterboarding, and hate.

Yeah yeah yeah. I know. But I can hope, right? If ONE person actually follows Christ's teachings and not some bigoted BS, it's better than nothing. *sigh*

Your Faith is Creepy: Gwendolyn: I think there are cases where parents are in the right denying medical treatment.

Are you saying that there are cases where parents are in the right denying medical treatment for religious reasons? I'd be curious to know what those are, if so.

No I mean cases like "Well if you get this horrible medical treatment you'll live an extra six months but you'll feel like hell and be stuck in bed" or "you could not do anything and die sooner but you'll have a few months of decent health."

SpaceyCat: Yeah yeah yeah. I know. But I can hope, right? If ONE person actually follows Christ's teachings and not some bigoted BS, it's better than nothing. *sigh*

That "Dogs have emotions" thread showed me that dogs follow Christ's teachings better than any Christian.

Gwendolyn: No I mean cases like "Well if you get this horrible medical treatment you'll live an extra six months but you'll feel like hell and be stuck in bed" or "you could not do anything and die sooner but you'll have a few months of decent health."

This is a perfectly reasonable response. Either way you know you're going to die. The choice to refuse treatment so that you can have a better quality of life at the end is a HUGE thing. If you're too sick from the medical treatments to prolong a life that is too burdensome is just insane. Death with dignity is something that needs to move forward. Attempting to save a life at ALL COSTS is insane. Mercy is needed when the end is painful and destructive. All life is precious and should be treasured, but that doesn't mean that all life can be saved or should be saved when it is unlikely to prolong anything BUT THE PAIN.

Stays Crunchy in Milk: That "Dogs have emotions" thread showed me that dogs follow Christ's teachings better than any Christian.

I missed that one, apparently, but given that the majority of dogs love EVERYONE no matter what that person has done (within reason), then I could agree with that. One of the major reasons I don't call myself a Christian is because of the people who say they are Christian and do NOT follow Christ's teachings. Yeah, no one is perfect by a long shot, but there's a difference between making a mistake and trying to make it right and having your head shoved so far up your ass. Willful ignorance is one of my huge pet peeves.

SpaceyCat: I missed that one, apparently, but given that the majority of dogs love EVERYONE no matter what that person has done (within reason), then I could agree with that. One of the major reasons I don't call myself a Christian is because of the people who say they are Christian and do NOT follow Christ's teachings. Yeah, no one is perfect by a long shot, but there's a difference between making a mistake and trying to make it right and having your head shoved so far up your ass. Willful ignorance is one of my huge pet peeves.

Your dog has empathy, compassion, and a burning desire for steak (pops)
My dad talks about me coming home from my first day at a Catholic preschool and complaining that the whole God thing didn't make sense.
So I was never really that likely to believe, but I remember grades 4-8 looking around at these good Christians who were just awful people.
I was taught to hate gays and nonbelievers at that school, and that drove any religion that may have been in me clear out.
I turned out to be one nice motherfarker, and I'm sure many of my classmates went on to become grade A scumbags.

Insulin beats god every time.

Stays Crunchy in Milk: but I remember grades 4-8 looking around at these good Christians who were just awful people.

This is the biggest problem, I think. You can be a "good Christian" if you confess your sins and still go to heaven, all while acting like the shiattiest person around. Never mind "love thy neighbor", treat others as you would like to be treated, etc. There are a LOT of examples of this in the world, but there are also those who try to make things better for their fellow man.

/that dog thread is awesome
//wish I had the space for a dog, but I'm not going to torture a pet with no space to roam

Hey, no Christian bashing. All the wars they started are for your own good.

Gwendolyn: Your Faith is Creepy: Gwendolyn: I think there are cases where parents are in the right denying medical treatment.

Are you saying that there are cases where parents are in the right denying medical treatment for religious reasons? I'd be curious to know what those are, if so.

No I mean cases like "Well if you get this horrible medical treatment you'll live an extra six months but you'll feel like hell and be stuck in bed" or "you could not do anything and die sooner but you'll have a few months of decent health."

I agree. A yawning gulf between quality of life and efficacy of treatment is the only criterion I can think of that might justify making that call for a minor child. And even then, it the best of all possible worlds the decision would still get a long, hard, compassionate look from somebody empowered to act on the child's behalf.

I'd like to think the reality is that these difficult cases could be negotiated between health care providers, parents and children more often than not. But then, we are a litigious bunch.

The deep dark inner area of me wishes they hadn't. The nasty little guy on my right shoulder says eople who choose to shun modernity in favor of their faith should be forced to stick to it.

But of course that would be all unethical. Damn society.

ninjakirby: The deep dark inner area of me wishes they hadn't. The nasty little guy on my right shoulder says eople who choose to shun modernity in favor of their faith should be forced to stick to it.

That's funny. The deep dark inner area of me is glad that they did. Not only should she be forced to live with the fact that she allowed her daughter to die a slow, horrible death, there is a certain poetic justice in the very same technology which could have saved her daughter but was rejected in favor of faith would have been used to keep her alive. Maybe I'm a bad person for this, but I hope the guilt of what she did tears her apart, and I hope she lives a very long, hard life while feeling that guilt.

/ quite obligatory

Someone needs to write a book on this.

Fundamental Christianity as a Mental Illness.

Bestseller!

/just the fundies, btw

FTFA: Neumann has said her family believes in the Bible, which says healing comes from God, and she never expected her daughter to die.

Extreme religious fundamentalism is a mental disorder.

But I think this woman should be release when she starts menopause. Her daughter is dead which should be punishment enough but I don't think she should be breeding ever again.

FTA: The family does not belong to an organized religion or faith, Neumann has said.

Ugh, fringe groups. "No religion can express my faith WHARRGARBL!!" They're like right-wing hippies or beatnick. They are too wacky to belong to any church and probably tried unsuccessfully to start their own cult.

During opening statements, Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson told the jury this case isn't about religious freedom or religious rights.

'Freedom of religion' stops when you start discriminating against or hurting people.

When you are talking end of life cases, things like terminal cancer, then yes the issue of medical treatments and when to stop gets much harder, and more personal.

However this was an issue of diabetes. That is a really, really, easy disease to treat. We have a lot of diabetics in the world that live full, healthy lives.

One could compare it to something like blindness. No, there's no cure, and your life isn't going to be 100% the same as someone who doesn't have the condition. However, that doesn't mean your life is over just because you have it. You make the changes necessary and go on enjoying life.

That's why there's such a problem here, and why this is ending up in court. This wasn't a mother making the hard decision as to if to stop fighting a terminal cancer, this was a mother denying her kid a simple treatment that would keep her healthy.

TemperedEdge: Someone needs to write a book on this.

Fundamental Christianity as a Mental Illness.

Bestseller!

Even the moderate version is too, there are just varying degrees of mental illness.

See: Delusional Disorder

feckingmorons: misstating the views of a billion Christians

So there was a conference or something and now they all beleieve exactly the same things? Because last time I knew there were lots of different Christian churches all believing different things. Is the pope still in charge? Who wears the funny hat now?

TemperedEdge: Someone needs to write a book on this.

Fundamental Christianity as a Mental Illness.

Bestseller!

/just the fundies, btw


Absolutist mindsets of any brand are deadly.

Saudi 'Killer Chip' Implant Would Track, Eliminate Undesirables
Friday, May 15, 2009
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,520331,00.html (pops)
It could be the ultimate in political control - but it won't be patented in Germany.

German media outlets reported last week that a Saudi inventor's application to patent a "killer chip," as the Swiss tabloids put it, had been denied.

The basic model would consist of a tiny GPS transceiver placed in a capsule and inserted under a person's skin, so that authorities could track him easily.

Model B would have an extra function - a dose of cyanide to remotely kill the wearer without muss or fuss if authorities deemed he'd become a public threat.

The inventor said the chip could be used to track terrorists, criminals, fugitives, illegal immigrants, political dissidents, domestic servants and foreigners overstaying their visas.

"The invention will probably be found to violate paragraph two of the German Patent Law - which does not allow inventions that transgress public order or good morals," German Patent and Trademark Office spokeswoman Stephanie Krüger told the English-language German-news Web site The Local.

// Well, I'd say it's long past the necessary date in humanity to nuke the Saudis into radioactive dust.

Other than chalking this up to "biatch be trippin" I can't explain how any parent could sit back and only pray for their child to get better.

would they decline an ambulance if they or their family was hit by a car?

FTFA: According to the criminal complaint, Madeline's father considered the girl's illness "a test of faith"

It was. The test was, "Do you believe that, if God had wanted to kill your daughter, He would have been able to do so even if you took her to a doctor?"

And you failed.

It's like praaaaaaaaaaayin'
on your deading day

I don't want to be a precious little snowflake but does this story really warrent the "amusing" tag?

The whole Christian bashing thing herein is so thoughtlessly juvenile. Gays want be respected but hate Christians because they perceive that some who call themselves Christians despise Gays. Thoughtless.
Atheists and agnostics feel free to bash Christians. These are people who believe they have garnered all the knowledge in the universe and are therefore qualified to judge the existence of God. Kind of like a high school dropout who believes that since he has learned to read he has obtained the peak of knowledge.Very juvenile.
Then there are those who bash all Christians because some who call themselves Christians prove through their actions and diatribes that they are anything but true Christians. Does that mean that if I call myself a liberal and support military tribunals that ALL liberals are idiots? Didn't think so...

I think feckingmorons may well be the greatest troll this place has ever seen. The subtlety, the finely-honed sense of his audience that walks the line between credibility and idiocy, I'm awestruck...

Hypocentric: The whole Christian bashing thing herein is so thoughtlessly juvenile. Gays want...

you tipped your hand too soon. Try again.

log_jammin: Hypocentric: The whole Christian bashing thing herein is so thoughtlessly juvenile. Gays want...

you tipped your hand too soon. Try again.
Scan much?

mr_bunny:
The views of a billion Christians are holding back mankind from greater things.

Keep your magical beliefs out of my society, I would rather move forward.

Now, be fair. There are things of value in the body of christian literature just the same as every other body of fiction. Crazy biatch is crazy, and people use the Bible and associated works to justify their own stupidity, but we use Moore, Marx, Aristotle, and Locke to justify our own stupidity on a regular basis too, and few would seriously argue that the philosophers are holding us back from greater things. Many people simply don't want to move forward, blaming the excuse instead of the people for the delay is just letting 'em get away with it.

Also, Remove_All_Republicans, that chart is bullshiat as there's no definition of what quantifies "scientific advancement". Not that you care, but I figured I'd point out that it's invalid/meaningless.