For what it's worth, I think Pelosi knew what was going on. Maybe not the exact details, but she knew that the CIA was up to no good. She certainly knew that SOMETHING bad was going on and that it was well within the confines of her job to investigate further. But she didn't want to get involved in a pissing contest with the CIA over the whole thing, so she ignored it. I guess she figured she could always claim ignorance later and nobody would blink twice.

The pathetic gop obsession with this is pretty sad. Just keep trying to steer everyone to Pelosi. See how well that flies when they finally decide to put together a truth commission.

Dinki: The pathetic gop obsession with this is pretty sad

Oh, come on...it's not like the Bush Administration was illegally torturing people before they told anyone about it in order to prove a false link between Saddam and 9/11! Or that the CIA has already admitted that 3 of the 4 dates they claimed they had briefings about the torture were wrong!
Oh wait...

I've got to say I'm pretty impressed with the way the GOP has managed to keep the focus of this debate on Nancy Pelosi, of all people.

Weaver95: She certainly knew that SOMETHING bad was going on and that it was well within the confines of her job to investigate further.

What the hell are you smoking? Assuming she was actually told anything, which is far from certain, She was a minority senator told something in an informational setting so secret she could not even discuss it with her staff. How exactly could she 'investigate' it? She couldn't open any kind of congressional investigation, she couldn't ask anyone other than the CIA or the administration, and as we have seen from the Harmon letter, even if she had objected, nothing would have changed. The whole congressional oversight thing was a sham.

And I love how it is now Pelosi's responsibility to hold the entire bush administration in check.

I wonder how many more people will show up and try to defend Pelosi?

Surely, despite one's party loyalty, we can agree that Pelosi is a complete idiot.

Weaver95: I wonder how many more people will show up and try to defend Pelosi?

Tell us -What was she supposed to do? Try to be a little specific.

Dinki: Weaver95: I wonder how many more people will show up and try to defend Pelosi?

Tell us -What was she supposed to do? Try to be a little specific.

Gee, I dunno. What might the Speaker of the US House of Representatives have done?

quite the puzzler indeed.

Weaver95: Gee, I dunno. What might the Speaker of the US House of Representatives have done?

Dennis Hastert, when all this was going down? Don't know.

She was speaker in 2003? Wow she really is magic.

robmilmel: Dennis Hastert, when all this was going down? Don't know

Damn I tried to remember his name :)

Dinki: She was speaker in 2003? Wow she really is magic.

was the CIA only torturing people in 2003? Because my understanding is that they haven't really stopped yet.

Weaver95: was the CIA only torturing people in 2003? Because my understanding is that they haven't really stopped yet.

Actually I heard somewhere (probably one of those left leaning MSM channels) that the torture stopped after the Abu Ghraib photos came out.

My investigations have revealed to me--vividly and clearly--that once the Abu Ghraib photographs were made public in the Spring of 2004, the CIA, its contractors, and everyone else involved in administering "the Cheney methods of interrogation", simply shut down. (new window)

Dinki: And I love how it is now Pelosi's responsibility to hold the entire bush administration in check.

She managed to do just that in 2004 when it came to Social Security, albeit with some help.

I'd give anything to see her get taken down in this thing. First because she's a dead weight around her party's neck... and second because then the GOP apologists have to decide how to blow smoke next and they are really running out of ideas. Even if we can't get justice maybe Cheney himself will have a stroke and live out the rest of his filthy life as a drooling vegetable.

Why the hell do we keep talking about Pelosi when she wasn't the one doing the torturing? Nobody defends her. How about we focus on the people that authorized it and did it! Or Hastert, you know the guy who actually had the House at the time! Farking media, following along with Repub talking points instead of focusing on the real people.

adjmcloon: Surely, despite one's party loyalty, we can agree that Pelosi is a complete idiot.

THIS.

GAT_00: Why the hell do we keep talking about Pelosi when she wasn't the one doing the torturing? Nobody defends her. How about we focus on the people that authorized it and did it! Or Hastert, you know the guy who actually had the House at the time! Farking media, following along with Repub talking points instead of focusing on the real people.


B-b-but "what she knew and when she knew it" is the only thing that matters in the whole world !! Why do you hate America ! Quick, look over there ! OMFG ! Teh communists !!!

Even if Pelosi knew, what could she do about it? She's just a woman, talking all crazy with her hair and her makeup and her crystal-covered cell phone.

came for the liberal spin.... not disappointed...

real shaman: came for the liberal spin.... not disappointed...

came for the neanderthalic cognitive dissonance..... not disappointed.

The biggest problem with torturing, which I think many proponents of it overlook, is that if we conduct such activity we hardly have a right to voice opposition to our own American prisoners of war being dealt the same treatment.

Dick Cheney (as one example) doesn't seem to think waterboarding, electrical shocks, sleep deprivation, and use of intimidating dogs are techniques of torture. Would he hold that same opinion when those techniques are used by an enemy on our own soldiers?

HansensDisease: real shaman: came for the liberal spin.... not disappointed...

came for the neanderthalic cognitive dissonance..... not disappointed.

wow... what a burn... I'm just devastated...

Cheney okayed illegal acts.
Whether she knew about it or not isn't what we should be focusing on. It's not like she could have told anyone. She wasn't speaker back then. She had no real power. If she had said a word Bush and Gonzo would have had her head on a spike.

So let's not get distracted. Cheney and Bush broke the law.
They did things we executed people for when they did it to us.

Hobodeluxe: Cheney okayed illegal acts.
Whether she knew about it or not isn't what we should be focusing on. It's not like she could have told anyone. She wasn't speaker back then. She had no real power. If she had said a word Bush and Gonzo would have had her head on a spike.

So let's not get distracted. Cheney and Bush broke the law.
They did things we executed people for when they did it to us.

But...but...but.... not stopping someone who committed a crime is worse than committing that crime !! It has to be !!!

real shaman: wow... what a burn... I'm just devastated...

Only after you had someone look up the long words for ya.

Came for the conservatives justifying torture and murder by changing the subject... not disappointed.

Eat shiat mods, you green shiat like this only rile people up.

Bush and Cheney are criminals and should be the focus of any investigation with regards to torture.

absoluteparanoia: Eat shiat mods, you green shiat like this only rile people up.

Mods don't greenlight anything. Admins do that.

Seriously, you've been here since 2002 and you don't know that?

Dinki: The pathetic gop obsession with this is pretty sad. Just keep trying to steer everyone to Pelosi. See how well that flies when they finally decide to put together a truth commission.

FuturePastNow: Came for the conservatives justifying torture and murder by changing the subject... not disappointed.


Thank you both for beating me to the punch. I think i'll go to the gym now.

My $0.02 though anything related to water boarding, 9/11, Iraq, detainees etc. needs to be declassified immediately so everyone can STFU with the speculation and finger pointing.

So, just to be clear about this. Pelosi is the worst liar in the history of the republic over the issue of THE ILLEGAL USE OF TORTURE BY BUSH AND CHENEY. Is that what's going on here?

Worse than Watergate (new window)

Creepier than Nixon: The man who brought down Richard Nixon says Bush and "co-president" Cheney are an even greater threat to the country. Link (new window)

Weaver95: I wonder how many more people will show up and try to defend Pelosi?

I wonder how many more people will utter the same goddamn phrase for the fiftieth time this week?

This is NOT about Pelosi

THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI
THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI
THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI
THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI
THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI
THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI
THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI
THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI
THIS IS NOT ABOUT PELOSI

Weaver95: I wonder how many more people will show up and try to defend Pelosi?

She's not worth defending, but that's not the point. If she resigned tomorrow, you'd hate her replacement too. Bush/Cheney torture is the issue here and you know it.

How did this torture thing get shifted to Pelosi? I'm almost radical leftist and I don't like Pelosi or Harry Reid. Bottom line and I don't give a frkk what Bush apoligists say Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice are the ones responsible for torture. Every last one of them should be rotting in jail cells. I hope there is a God because if there is Bush and the others are going to have a lot to answer for. Forget truth commisions, etc. Congress - deal with our problems.

The only other politician I remember seeing commit suicide on TV after opening their mouth was Bud Dwyer.

GAT_00: Why the hell do we keep talking about Pelosi when she wasn't the one doing the torturing? Nobody defends her. How about we focus on the people that authorized it and did it! Or Hastert, you know the guy who actually had the House at the time! Farking media, following along with Repub talking points instead of focusing on the real people.

So you're completely exonerating her? What's that legal term for knowing about a crime and permitting it to occur?

Could she have asked for mandamus? Her defenders' biggest argument seems to be "she couldn't do anything about it." I'm just wondering if she could have involved the judiciary.

Once again, more focus on the person who may have lied about knowing about the torture rather than focusing on the people who actually authorized the torture. In what effing reality does it occur where what Nancy did is worse than what Bush/Cheney did?

And if she had no problem with the torture, then the hell with her as well. Send her up the river with anyone else who thought that this was acceptable. But stop trying to make her main villain here.

Pelosi is an idiot.

Doesn't change the fact that what Cheney did was criminal.

kleppe: GAT_00: Why the hell do we keep talking about Pelosi when she wasn't the one doing the torturing? Nobody defends her. How about we focus on the people that authorized it and did it! Or Hastert, you know the guy who actually had the House at the time! Farking media, following along with Repub talking points instead of focusing on the real people.

So you're completely exonerating her? What's that legal term for knowing about a crime and permitting it to occur?

The appropriate term is trolling. Your trolling.

At this point, the Republicans know that their President condoned torture. Their only defense right now is that "Pelosi knew about it," which really isn't a defense at all. The focus is shifted onto Pelosi, which only says something about her character.

She would NOT have been able to do anything about the Bush administration without being attacked professionally. She chose to keep quiet for the few years of work she could do before it would catch up with her.

She probably didn't realize how pissed off the Republicans would be at her though for something that the CIA did with Bush' blessing.

CaptMacMillian: Pelosi is an idiot.

Doesn't change the fact that what Cheney did was criminal.

THIS!

This will probably go ignored in this thread just like it does in the national discourse, but: who gives a farking shiat? N-to-tha-Pelosizzle wasn't the one actually wanting to torture people. Perhaps she knew, which is far from even remotely clear, and that would be wrong... but it was the god damn republicans and bushiites and bush and cheney themselves that were the ones who farking WANTED to torture people.

I really hope this is ultimately Pelosi's undoing. She is nothing but a distraction and a detriment to the democratic party. (u admirin' alliteration??)

Face it, libs. Bush had solid legal justification from the justice department to use enhanced interrogation techniques. Pelosi never got any legal justification to lie to the American poeple from Chairman MaoBama's justice department.

Giltric: The only other politician I remember seeing commit suicide on TV after opening their mouth was Bud Dwyer.

That's why I say hey man nice shot

The crime is not what Pelosi knew and when she knew it. The crime is torture which was committed by the Bush/Cheney administration.

If Pelosi is some sort of an accessory after the fact, then what is the orginal crime?

Both Pelosi and Obama need to start playing hardball on this as if they don't, they are going to get steamrolled on this.

I love all the posturing here on Fark about "torture" by Bush/Cheney... when we all know the truth:

This has nothing to do with torture per se, and everything to do with finally nailing the evil Bush/Cheney on something.