Really? Scrapple is pretty good.

Interesting poll results.

The source of the shift in abortion views is clear in the Gallup Values and Beliefs survey. The percentage of Republicans (including independents who lean Republican) calling themselves "pro-life" rose by 10 points over the past year, from 60% to 70%, while there has been essentially no change in the views of Democrats and Democratic leaners.

Weird, I thought most Republicans or independents leaning Republican would have already self-identified themselves as "pro-life". Strange.

KaponoFor3: Weird, I thought most Republicans or independents leaning Republican would have already self-identified themselves as "pro-life". Strange.

I would say the reason is that Obama's victory has galvanized the opposition and made people leaning that way more likely to be strongly that way.

7of7: I would say the reason is that Obama's victory has galvanized the opposition and made people leaning that way more likely to be strongly that way.

why would obama's victory move someone's position on abortion? that's a morals and values issue, and i can't see people changing that based on elections

7of7: KaponoFor3: Weird, I thought most Republicans or independents leaning Republican would have already self-identified themselves as "pro-life". Strange.

I would say the reason is that Obama's victory has galvanized the opposition and made people leaning that way more likely to be strongly that way.

They're just afraid of the coming forced abortions to continue stem cell research that are coming very soon, thanks for Obama's mandatory fetal harvesting bill that's about to be introduced.

If, on Jan 1, 2008, I had 100 Republicans(and those that lean Republican) in a room, and 40 of them were pro-life, then 40% would be pro-life.

Say that between then and now, 20 of those people who were pro-choice decided they no longer were Republican or leaned Republican. Now you only have 80 people left, but the number of pro-lifers stayed the same. Consequently, the percentage of Republicans (including independents who lean Republican) calling themselves "pro-life" [would have risen] by 10 points over the past year....

/if you skipped over that convoluted example, I'd say the survey shows that the # of Republicans is declining, rather than the number of pro-lifers expanding.

albo: why would obama's victory move someone's position on abortion?

If my theory is correct the election didn't move their positions so much as it made them more likely to strongly voice their opinions when polled. Similarly, someone who feels that their side won the election would be less likely to strongly voice their opinion.

SurfaceTension: If, on Jan 1, 2008, I had 100 Republicans(and those that lean Republican) in a room, and 40 of them were pro-life, then 40% would be pro-life.

This is true.

7of7: If my theory is correct the election didn't move their positions so much as it made them more likely to strongly voice their opinions when polled.

interesting. you could very well be right

SurfaceTension: Say that between then and now, 20 of those people who were pro-choice decided they no longer were Republican or leaned Republican. Now you only have 80 people left, but the number of pro-lifers stayed the same. Consequently, the percentage of Republicans (including independents who lean Republican) calling themselves "pro-life" [would have risen] by 10 points over the past year....

This is what I meant to quote during my previous post.

Thread over, SurfaceTension wins.

SurfaceTension: /if you skipped over that convoluted example, I'd say the survey shows that the # of Republicans is declining, rather than the number of pro-lifers expanding.

Except for this:


To which all I can say is:

I love when personal choices and politics don't match up perfectly. Makes for some interesting reading.

"B..b...but I thought EVERYONE in each of our two political parties held the line on every single official viewpoint!"

You know who else had the majority once upon a time?

7of7: KaponoFor3: Weird, I thought most Republicans or independents leaning Republican would have already self-identified themselves as "pro-life". Strange.

I would say the reason is that Obama's victory has galvanized the opposition and made people leaning that way more likely to be strongly that way.

I would say the pro-choicers are killing off any progeny to pass their values down, making it intellectual Darwinism.

NikolaiFarkoff: I love when personal choices and politics don't match up perfectly. Makes for some interesting reading.

The personal shouldn't be as political as it is. Abortion rights, gay marriage, evolution classes, all of these social issues are made into a big deal on the political stage because people are more passionate about their moral and personal choices than they are about budgets and actual political issues. Also, the people are easily distracted by these things, and it protects the politicians in a lot of ways as a result.

But how many of them are pro-miniature American flag?

rocinante721: I would say the pro-choicers are killing off any progeny to pass their values down, making it intellectual Darwinism.

Poe's law.

snuff3r: You know who else had the majority once upon a time?

Wilt Chamberlin?

rocinante721: I would say the pro-choicers are killing off any progeny to pass their values down, making it intellectual Darwinism.

the roe effect (wiki) (new window)

tallguywithglasseson: But how many of them are pro-miniature American flag?

Are they Chinese-made? If so, count me in that demographic. Chinese-made American flags for all!

albo: rocinante721: I would say the pro-choicers are killing off any progeny to pass their values down, making it intellectual Darwinism.

the roe effect (wiki) (new window)

Those who favor legal abortion are much more likely to get one than those who oppose it.
Sure...
Children usually follow their parents' political leanings.
Okay...
Therefore, pro-choice parents will have more abortions and, hence, fewer children.
Wait, what? There's not necessarily a correlation between having an abortion and having fewer children. Many who have abortions go on to have children once they're ready, and likewise, many pro-lifers have two kids and then get their tubes tied.

Theaetetus: Wait, what? There's not necessarily a correlation between having an abortion and having fewer children. Many who have abortions go on to have children once they're ready, and likewise, many pro-lifers have two kids and then get their tubes tied.

And some people who get abortions already have kids.

SurfaceTension: If, on Jan 1, 2008, I had 100 Republicans(and those that lean Republican) in a room, and 40 of them were pro-life, then 40% would be pro-life.

Say that between then and now, 20 of those people who were pro-choice decided they no longer were Republican or leaned Republican. Now you only have 80 people left, but the number of pro-lifers stayed the same. Consequently, the percentage of Republicans (including independents who lean Republican) calling themselves "pro-life" [would have risen] by 10 points over the past year....

I wanted to examine this again. The first paragraph in the Gallup poll says:

A new Gallup Poll, conducted May 7-10, finds 51% of Americans calling themselves "pro-life" on the issue of abortion and 42% "pro-choice." This is the first time a majority of U.S. adults have identified themselves as pro-life since Gallup began asking this question in 1995.

SurfaceTension, if what you said is true, then shouldn't the actual percentages of Americans call themselves pro-life versus pro-choice have not changed at all? I mean, the top poll results doesn't differentiate between parties.

albo: 7of7: If my theory is correct the election didn't move their positions so much as it made them more likely to strongly voice their opinions when polled.

interesting. you could very well be right

It's not as though we haven't seen very clear (and loud) examples of this in the past few months. I don't think that it applies to the abortion issue as much, but it's certainly a plausible idea.

Poll Question: Do you consider yourself pro-life or pro-choice?

Gallup translation: Do you consider yourself pro-life or are you for ripping babies out of their mother's womb and trampling them under your bootheels?

Personally, I am opposed to both abortion and capital punishment.

As an American who believes in liberty and personal freedom, I am pro-choice.

I've been an anti-life, anti-choice activist for years. Mandatory abortions for all. But only until the 240th trimester.

This thread should be full of rational reasoned debate once it hits the main page. Do you think 100lbs of popcorn will be enough?

Eddie Adams from Torrance: This thread should be full of rational reasoned debate once it hits the main page. Do you think 100lbs of popcorn will be enough?

Uncertain.

Perhaps if I advocate circumcising aborted fetuses you'll need more.

Eddie Adams from Torrance: Do you think 100lbs of popcorn will be enough?

On a Friday? Fark no. This has trainwreck potential.

Didn't notice this thread when I posted in the other so here it is again:

Did they poll which term they call themselves or did they present a situation and ask on which side they come down on? For example if somebody is against abortion except in cases of rape, incest or health of the mother they might call themselves pro-life. While somebody else with the same exact views might call themselves pro-choice. Maybe they just prefer the term pro-life. This isn't nearly as much of a black/white issue as people make it out to be.

There is a spectrum in the abortion issue as with every other issue. I don't see why we need to force ourselves into one of two sides.

AZtoJapan: I don't see why we need to force ourselves into one of two sides.

Because it's a hell of a lot harder to build constituencies in a binary political system when you have shades of disagreement.

palladiate: AZtoJapan: I don't see why we need to force ourselves into one of two sides.

Because it's a hell of a lot harder to build constituencies in a binary political system when you have shades of disagreement.

But I also believe that most people are somewhere in the middle on this issue. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think a majority of people believe in abortion at any time up until the day of birth, or that they are against abortion in the early stages while it is still just a clump of cells.

Unfortunately the people who do think this way are not very vocal and don't sit on vast sums of cash to push their cause.

Interesting that most people still are pro-choice "under certain circumstances." I'd like to see a poll on what those circumstances are.

I don't think a healthy woman with a healthy fetus should be allowed to have an abortion at 8 months, but taking a "morning after" pill is the moral equivalent of taking an aspirin, IMO. Specifics are important.

You know, most people would never have an abortion themselves, but don't really feel strongly about someone else having one. These people say "Well, I'm pro-life", and they are. But they don't want to ban abortions. Therein lies the difference.

You know how we end the abortion debate? Put birth control in the water. You aren't allowed to get pregnant until age 25, and then you need to pass a test of your fiscal and emotional ability to have and raise a child.

Of course, that will never happen. So we're gonna keep having this argument.

Theaetetus: SurfaceTension: /if you skipped over that convoluted example, I'd say the survey shows that the # of Republicans is declining, rather than the number of pro-lifers expanding.

Except for this:


To which all I can say is:

Check the second graph on the page:



The views aren't really changing, just how people label themselves. If anything, this indicates a moderating of the "pro-life" position, not people suddenly changing their views.

Really? Only 1 comment defending scrapple so far?

Slices cut from a 1 pound block and fried on super hot griddle - crispy on the outside and still a little mushy on the inside. Serve with ketchup (or maple syrup) and consume with no less than 3 dippy eggs. Then take a mid-morning nap.

Oh, and abortions for all.

looks like an anomaly.


I'd rather see a chart of who really gives a shiat.

HeartBurnKid: Theaetetus: SurfaceTension: /if you skipped over that convoluted example, I'd say the survey shows that the # of Republicans is declining, rather than the number of pro-lifers expanding.

Except for this:


To which all I can say is:

Check the second graph on the page:



The views aren't really changing, just how people label themselves. If anything, this indicates a moderating of the "pro-life" position, not people suddenly changing their views.

More interesting graphs from TFA:





Seems like the shift in labeling is almost entirely right-wingers going righter, not moderates suddenly adopting the position.

Don't knock fetus scrapple until you've tried it.

There's no possible way that a media release of this nature could be intelligently designed to scare constituents into voting one way or another.

No possible way. This is liberal media after all.

DarnoKonrad: looks like an anomaly.


I'd rather see a chart of who really gives a shiat.

HeartBurnKid: HeartBurnKid: Theaetetus: SurfaceTension: /if you skipped over that convoluted example, I'd say the survey shows that the # of Republicans is declining, rather than the number of pro-lifers expanding.

Except for this:


To which all I can say is:

Check the second graph on the page:



The views aren't really changing, just how people label themselves. If anything, this indicates a moderating of the "pro-life" position, not people suddenly changing their views.

More interesting graphs from TFA:

Seems like the shift in labeling is almost entirely right-wingers going righter, not moderates suddenly adopting the position.

Well obviously. It's the only issue in which they have some sort of substance recently.

what_now: You know how we end the abortion debate? Put birth control in the water. You aren't allowed to get pregnant until age 25, and then you need to pass a test of your fiscal and emotional ability to have and raise a child.

Of course, that will never happen. So we're gonna keep having this argument.

Already happening. Hormones in the water from birth control products are giving fish birth defects.

SurfaceTension: If, on Jan 1, 2008, I had 100 Republicans(and those that lean Republican) in a room, and 40 of them were pro-life, then 40% would be pro-life.

Say that between then and now, 20 of those people who were pro-choice decided they no longer were Republican or leaned Republican. Now you only have 80 people left, but the number of pro-lifers stayed the same. Consequently, the percentage of Republicans (including independents who lean Republican) calling themselves "pro-life" [would have risen] by 10 points over the past year....

/if you skipped over that convoluted example, I'd say the survey shows that the # of Republicans is declining, rather than the number of pro-lifers expanding.

Cha-ching. The remaining 22% of Americans who call themselves Republicans are even harder right than the guys who got biatchslapped in November.

andrewagill:
Already happening. Hormones in the water from birth control products are giving fish birth defects.

Are you sure that theory holds water? It seems kinda fishy. Maybe it is just a red herring.

I'm pro-choice and I like scrapple, but I'm not a republican. I guess Meatloaf was right.

Don't know if somebody pointed it out yet, but it is possible to be "pro-life" and still believe abortion should be a legal option for people...

For example, My wife and I have no intentions of having children. However, if she should get pregnant, we would most likely not opt to
abort it, but we both think it should be a choice available to us and not something dictated by the government.

The country is and always will be center right. People were just so pissed at Bush the big government republicans they either sat at home or went out on a limb and voted for the shiney object in the other party.

Right now is as good as it will get for the democrats in most of you farkers lifetime. Right now is the utopia you have been waiting for. Instead of being pissed off all the time (I know that's tough for people incapable of seeing the glass half full) relax and enjoy the next year or so. Democrats will begin to lose their majority soon enough and you will have somthing to release your hate on and rail against.