Very interesting article :)

Does that count emissions by cows, bison and horses? Not to mention Indians?

The Spanish also built a lot of emissions.

Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

I certainly hope so as well.

Why would you set the flux capacitor? Marty and Doc set the Delorean's time circuits.

I've gotten to a point where I sincerely don't trust a thing coming out of the Moonie Times.

It's Joe Barton...

Just ignore him.

"Great Scott! I only have 10 more years until Buford shoots me. Marty, we have to hurry!"

The revenue impact is between $646 billion and $2 trillion over the next 10 years

So how would Democrats like to repeal the income tax and replace it with a carbon tax? Carbon tax, not cap-and-trade. That has the advantage of making the government put a dollar value on a ton of carbon instead of waving its hands saying "exhaling is evil." The carbon tax would be high (to match the income tax), appealing to liberals. The income tax rate would be zero, appealing to conservatives.

Revenue-neutral, and productive if you believe in anthropogenic global warming.

Perhaps instead of sending our economy back to the 1800s we can work on things like the rampant coal fires in China? 20-30 million tons of coal just burn every year there. Imagine how much Co2 that puts into the atmosphere?

Link (new window)

IDLink=4379726&IDComment=50981255#c50981255">Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

you mean nowhere besides this washington times article. or is that a wacko fundie website too?

Nice to see all that proof, Moonie Times.

Joe L. Barton, Texas Republican, is ranking member of the House of Representatives' Energy and Commerce Committee.

Oh, that makes sense. Bullshiat Repub WHARRGARBL is bullshiat WHARRGARBL.

WFern:

I've gotten to a point where I sincerely don't trust a thing coming out of the Moonie Times.

Well, shoot me with a buffalo gun. You suppose it's right-wing propaganda?

.

I hate it when this guy makes sense. It really messes up my world-view which is so very, very fragile.

Tr0mBoNe: I hate it when this guy makes sense. It really messes up my world-view which is so very, very fragile.

If he ever made sense beyond "good morning", I would be more worried about my IQ,

baka-san: It's Joe Barton...

Just ignore him.

fire him

waaaaaaaaah, it's too hard. I don't like science anymore.

FTFA: Fast forward to this week. Without actual numbers or the resulting cost estimates, we're left to ponder the broad ranges of economic damage. The news is necessarily vague, but none of it is good. Your electricity bill will increase by 77 percent to 129 percent. Filling up your gas tank will cost anywhere from 60 percent to 144 percent more. The cost of home heating oil and natural gas will nearly double.

These numbers brought to you by the Department of the Interior of our Asshole, and your friends at the OOGA BOOGA Times.

ZAZ: The revenue impact is between $646 billion and $2 trillion over the next 10 years

So how would Democrats like to repeal the income tax and replace it with a carbon tax? Carbon tax, not cap-and-trade. That has the advantage of making the government put a dollar value on a ton of carbon instead of waving its hands saying "exhaling is evil." The carbon tax would be high (to match the income tax), appealing to liberals. The income tax rate would be zero, appealing to conservatives.

Revenue-neutral, and productive if you believe in anthropogenic global warming.

Stephan Dion (now exleader of the Liberal party) tried that in the last Canadian national election - carbon tax with offsetting income tax reductions.

Most believed the tax increase part but only that part.

I thought it was a good idea.

Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

Apparently you missed the part of the article where they mentioned it was a bill that's currently in committee?

Hearings began Tuesday afternoon in the Energy and Commerce Committee on the "American Clean Energy and Security Act," otherwise known as the "Cap and Trade" legislation.

Then there's this... Doesn't strike me as a particular Nuttjob site.

Link (new window)

Doublek111: you mean nowhere besides this washington times article. or is that a wacko fundie website too?

I don't think i've seen any articles/stories on Fox news, CNN or MSNBC that say Obama is capping energy production or slapping carbon limits on US manufacturers.

independant confirmation of this secret plan would be nice.

Doublek111: you mean nowhere besides this washington times article. or is that a wacko fundie website too?

...the Washington Times *is* a wacko fundie newspaper. It's run by Reverend Moon.

CanisNoir: Apparently you missed the part of the article where they mentioned it was a bill that's currently in committee?


so what's the bill number? 'cause i'd like to read it.

Doublek111: IDLink=4379726&IDComment=50981255#c50981255">Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

you mean nowhere besides this washington times article. or is that a wacko fundie website too?

Given that the TIMES (and notice that this is the Washington Times and not the Post) is owned by "King of the Oceans" Rev Sun Yung Moon, the answer to your question is "YES!"

The article is part truth, part bull crap.

People who promote the Global Warming Hoax do so for two reasons: Money and power.

They want to make you feel guilty for being successful when so many people are not, and convince you there is an "obligation" to help people who do not do for themselves.

Hence, they want to tax you into oblivion, hold out a stiff percentage---that goes without saying, of course---and use your money to support "Turd-World" dictators like Robert Mugabe, who will pocket most of the money as usual.

Less than 1% will reach the common people, if that much.

That last peak about 130,000 years ago the sea level increased by about 10 feet. The damage is done, I have no clue how to get that much CO2 out of the atmosphere. It just takes time for the effects to show themselves.

I missed the moment where excessive oil consumption cured diarrhea, hepatitis, typhoid fever, dengue fever and malaria, then made us all both literate and immortal.

In 1875, factories were belching out so much crap that you could stand in the middle of some cities and it would be dark as a starless night at noon.

FTFA: What, the old DeLorean is up on cinder blocks in the front yard again? In that case you can test drive Waxman-Markey by sailing down to Haiti, because current CO2 emissions are where Waxman-Markey wants America's to be in 2050. Radical environmentalists think such a CO2 level will be heaven on Earth, but the place that has actually achieved it is a nation swimming in bacterial and protozoal diarrhea, hepatitis A and E, typhoid fever, dengue fever and malaria, with 47 percent illiteracy and a life expectancy of 49 years. So excuse me if I remain unconvinced.

Yeah, cause reducing our carbon emission means we'll be throw out the last 134 years of medical advancement as well. Right...

Also, notice the "By 2050".

olddinosaur: People who promote the Global Warming Hoax do so for two reasons: Money and power.

With the use of one word, you proved that you are an idiot.

ZAZ: Carbon tax, not cap-and-trade.

cap and trade is a tax. It's just that it's paired with a giveaway to whatever groups it gives the carbon rights to in the first place. A tax paired with a giveaway is still a tax.

would never happen. It would hurt too many businesses, and there are too many lobbyists who represent companies that would be hurt, and let's face it, there are too many (all) congressmen who are in the wallet of the lobbyists.

moothemagiccow: Just ignore him.

fire him

I'll bring the matches.

"So excuse me if I remain unconvinced."

Mr. Barton

I'm sure you read the bill and I'm sure you have no idea what you read. You don't even grasp the most basic concept of plate tectonics. So excuse me if I doubt your intellect and your ability to comprehend...well, anything.

Dwight_Yeast: olddinosaur: People who promote the Global Warming Hoax do so for two reasons: Money and power.

With the use of one word, you proved that you are an idiot.

Soon he will explain why it's Al Gore's fault he's an idiot.

Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

Link (new window)

That would be a yes.

/I own a DeLorean with low emissions, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies...

one quick and dirty google search later....


So apparently there IS no legislation pending on this. Waxman release a DRAFT of a proposal for the purposes of discussion. which means that it's nowhere near ready to even go into committee yet.

*yawn*

WildMonkey: That last peak about 130,000 years ago the sea level increased by about 10 feet. The damage is done, I have no clue how to get that much CO2 out of the atmosphere. It just takes time for the effects to show themselves.

This.

I'm pretty sure this is going to destroy most flora and fauna on the surface of the earth. The temperature is just going to increase too much for lifeforms adapted to the current temperature range to survive.

We're all doomed.

We were doing so well, and then, just eight years later, Krakatoa ruined the carbon emission rates for the whole world.

I stopped reading at the totally irrelevant comparison to Haiti.

The post references "Back to the Future" and we get 36 posts in without a Doc Brown pic?

Poor performance, my fellow Farkers.



/Nothing else to contribute
//Bite me

Kevua: Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

Link (new window)

That would be a yes.

old news is old.

got anything more recent than 2007?

Kevua: Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

Link (new window)

That would be a yes.

Dateline on your article: October 7, 2007

Opening line: Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama on Monday said that if elected he would establish an economy-wide cap-and-trade program that would sharply cut greenhouse-gas emissions by 2050.

oldebayer: Does that count emissions by cows, bison and horses? Not to mention Indians?

The Spanish also built a lot of emissions.

Those were mostly nocturnal.

If they pass this I will start burning tires in my yard. I bet the a$$holes on capital hill wont reduce anything but its good for me and you, you know, the little people.

Link (new window)

/that is all

Weaver95: Kevua: Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

Link (new window)

That would be a yes.

old news is old.

got anything more recent than 2007?

ok, how about Feb of 2009?
Link (new window)

I have seen similar claims recently, although none from a mainstream news source. This is a speech (in pdf) (new window)from the CEO of a natural gas company made in April, which has a lot of good comments although a friend (in alternative energy) says a few of his #'s are off.

Pretty easy to calculate CO2 creation, as relative efficiencies don't change much. Obviously the other pollutants are way, way down as you can compare LA smog in the 50's to the air now. Even though LA is considered the most polluted city in the US it doesn't come anywhere near as bad as it used to be, probably about 1% of what it was in the 50's. But that is completely separate from CO2, which is what Waxman et al want to regulate.

IMHO CO2 regulation is more about power & control than doing any good, but that's another argument...

Weaver95: Kevua: Weaver95: Has Obama actually decided to start capping carbon emissions? the only place i've heard talking about this is the more wacko fundie websites and blogs. So either this is a deep conspiracy of monumental proportions or it's total bullshiat. And i'm leaning towards 'total bullshiat'.

Link (new window)

That would be a yes.

old news is old.

got anything more recent than 2007?

Or how about March of 2009
Link (new window)

Even if we successfully capped emissions by 2050 there's so much goddamned CO² in the atmosphere now that I don't see it doing a lot of good. That's what the environmental scientists aren't telling you. It's too late. It doesn't matter. We're all doomed. I'm not kidding.