Well that's enough to make me want to move to farking Canada.

LOL....it's true!

And welfare doesn't allow recipients to act responsibly. You save your money, you stop receiving it. You build a bank balance through being thrifty, you must need need further assistance. Get a job? Well we're going to cut you off completely.

A few times this last year I've had clients' payee actually instruct me to have clients spend money. "At least five hundred dollars." At this time last year I had to help a client burn through nine thousand dollars.

Kinda hard to teach them fiscal responsibility when rules don't allow that.

Kelley says she was told she didn't make enough money and people on welfare shouldn't take vacations.

wow. good on you Canada!

Weaver95: wow. good on you Canada!

Well, it's good until some jackass border guard arbitrarily decides that something you do is grounds for keeping you out. But, I guess you'd just be cool with that.

Whamdangler: Well, it's good until some jackass border guard arbitrarily decides that something you do is grounds for keeping you out. But, I guess you'd just be cool with that.

Perhaps I missed some aspect of the article, but it didn't seem arbitrary to me.

I'm on welfare and unemployment because I don't have a job. I spend all day looking for one. What kind of F*cking loser would go on vacation? Jesus.

This crap sucks. Why would anybody want to live like this?

kellynoel: Perhaps I missed some aspect of the article, but it didn't seem arbitrary to me.

If Canada does not have a policy of not allowing people on welfare to enter, then it's arbitrary. I have found no such policy.

Weaver95: Kelley says she was told she didn't make enough money and people on welfare shouldn't take vacations.

wow. good on you Canada!

I never understood this attitude. So, someone struggling on welfare should never be allowed to try to step away from that stress? They are somehow just partying it up all the time, with that massive welfare payout?

The whole ideas that we need to step on those that are in the most need of escaping the depressive environment of welfare, just to what? Show them just who is boss?

It is this all encompassing view of everyone less fortunate than you that permeates society, specifically people with political views similar to yours. You have this obsessive need to make millions of people on simple meme. As long as you don't have to consider them as human beings, just as faceless numbers/easy targets/ego boosting stereotypes, you are happy to grovel.

Did I miss where in the article the woman says she was going on vacation? She was visiting friends, with her kids.

I see where someone TOLD her she shouldn't be on vacation, nothing more than that.

This story is woefully short on facts, while abundant with warrrghhbl material.

Whamdangler: If Canada does not have a policy of not allowing people on welfare to enter, then it's arbitrary. I have found no such policy.

To clarify, I had one too many "nots" in there.

If Canada does not have a policy of allowing people on welfare to enter, then it's arbitrary. I have found no such policy.

mediablitz: So, someone struggling on welfare should never be allowed to try to step away from that stress? .

Get off welfare and they can go on all the vacations they want.

And free healthcare isn't a form of social assistance? Keep them damn freeloading Canucks out of MY country, then.

/didn't know Canada was a "bootstrap mentality" nation.

mediablitz: Did I miss where in the article the woman says she was going on vacation? She was visiting friends, with her kids.

couldn't welfare be like: permanent vacation?

The article doesn't even state why she was really even going in the first place.

If your passport checks out, you should be allowed in.

IronTom: couldn't welfare be like: permanent vacation?

Kool-Aid, project housing, and red-lined neighborhoods isn't my idea of a vacation. Just because you get "free money" doesn't mean it's the easy life.

Well, maybe the Kool-Aid part would be nice. I love me some Kool-Aid.

Weaver95: mediablitz: So, someone struggling on welfare should never be allowed to try to step away from that stress? .

Get off welfare and they can go on all the vacations they want.

I'm struggling to put food on the table for the baby, I just found out the head gaskets on my Subaru boxer engine are cracked and it's gonna cost me two grand (I don't have) to fix, I get shiat hours at work because the economy blows (and thus the part timers get their hours slashed), and there are a hundred applicants for every open job in this town- and most of them aren't full-time college student with a toddler and no babysitter after 6PM M-Saturday, or at all on Sunday.

Yet yesterday, after my last final was over, I went to see "Star Trek" and then took the baby to Cici's. That was probably $15, $20 I don't have- but after a semester akin to being freedom tickled at the Guantanamo Bay Water Park and Wave Safari, and with babymama drama that could fill up seasons of soap operas, I figured, fark it. I need to blow off steam and relax somehow.

I'm not even on welfare. No, as Joey Jo Jo pointed out, I was far too financially responsible. I had a 401(k), a Roth, savings put away, etc- then the baby ends up in the ICU prenatally, the car breaks down, I gotta pay for college, the economy trashes and I go from 30-40 hours a week to 0-5 at work, and I burn through all of that savings just to stay afloat. But heck, I don't qualify for welfare.

Even if I did, though, I can feel the shame and stigma of being on it. I was raised like you were- as an idiot- thinking welfare = welfare queen/lazy/shiftless/etc. Funny how life events can make you reconsider these sorts of things.

It's easier to be judgmental, though, ain't it, Weaver?

Action Replay Nick: The article doesn't even state why she was really even going in the first place.

I would imagine because of meds, but you can't say that at the border.

mediablitz:

I never understood this attitude. So, someone struggling on welfare should never be allowed to try to step away from that stress? They are somehow just partying it up all the time, with that massive welfare payout?

The whole ideas that we need to step on those that are in the most need of escaping the depressive environment of welfare, just to what? Show them just who is boss?

It is this all encompassing view of everyone less fortunate than you that permeates society, specifically people with political views similar to yours. You have this obsessive need to make millions of people on simple meme. As long as you don't have to consider them as human beings, just as faceless numbers/easy targets/ego boosting stereotypes, you are happy to grovel.

The attitude is because plenty of people on welfare aren't struggling. And aren't depressed. There's a big difference between decent, disadvantaged people who temporarily get welfare and those (who are not disabled) who know the system better than anyone who works in it, and who are content to live off the work of others. I have no idea how prevalent that is but it's enough to stain the image of everyone who gets welfare.

Financially, I have clients who have more disposable income than I do, because they don't have to pay for medical insurance or groceries, and a good number of their other bills are subsidized.

That oughtta frustrate the hell out of you.

No, seriously. Since when does driving somewhere to see friends and relatives equate to a vacation? In my world, a vacation is getting AWAY from those people on an intimate retreat either alone, or with the immediate family, and some form of luxury is involved.

Unless I'm missing something here, everyone supporting this border patrol agent is an idiot who didn't bother to read the article and assumed the headline was the de facto synopsis of the story.

mediablitz: Weaver95: Kelley says she was told she didn't make enough money and people on welfare shouldn't take vacations.

wow. good on you Canada!

I never understood this attitude. So, someone struggling on welfare should never be allowed to try to step away from that stress? They are somehow just partying it up all the time, with that massive welfare payout?

The whole ideas that we need to step on those that are in the most need of escaping the depressive environment of welfare, just to what? Show them just who is boss?

It is this all encompassing view of everyone less fortunate than you that permeates society, specifically people with political views similar to yours. You have this obsessive need to make millions of people on simple meme. As long as you don't have to consider them as human beings, just as faceless numbers/easy targets/ego boosting stereotypes, you are happy to grovel.

When can I 'step away from the stress" of going to work everyday day to support that woman and her kids.....WHEN?

Whamdangler: If Canada does not have a policy of not allowing people on welfare to enter, then it's arbitrary. I have found no such policy.

Canada has a policy of requiring visitors to have the means to take care of themselves while in Canada, and have ties to their home country so that they will feel the need go back eventually. She didn't and that's why she was denied access.

The officer was probably out of line with his comment, though.

ragekage: Even if I did, though, I can feel the shame and stigma of being on it. I was raised like you were- as an idiot- thinking welfare = welfare queen/lazy/shiftless/etc. Funny how life events can make you reconsider these sorts of things.

It's easier to be judgmental, though, ain't it, Weaver?

you aren't on welfare, so....what's the problem again?

Mythy: When can I 'step away from the stress" of going to work everyday day to support that woman and her kids.....WHEN?

That raises a real interesting issue. What happens when the contributors to the welfare system start living at lower levels than the recipients?

If it were up to me, welfare would be radically different. It's just a mess right now. Money is allocated to people, and more money goes to regulating that, and more money to auditing that, and more money to maintain records, etc. Since I only get paid a little over 1/3 of what the state actually pays out for my services, I can only imagine how much is spent at the state level before clients get their help.

Weaver95: ragekage: Even if I did, though, I can feel the shame and stigma of being on it. I was raised like you were- as an idiot- thinking welfare = welfare queen/lazy/shiftless/etc. Funny how life events can make you reconsider these sorts of things.

It's easier to be judgmental, though, ain't it, Weaver?

you aren't on welfare, so....what's the problem again?

Because I can see if I was right now- and I could sure as hell use the money- how I could need to get away. Doesn't mean I blow a bunch of money to stay at a hotel, or buy a new TV, or something. Hell, I'd settle for getting my XBOX 360 fixed if I could. As the others have noted, you've bought completely into the welfare stereotype that's prevalent in our society, without considering that, while undoubtedly true in some circumstances, there are people out there who are doing their damnedest to get buy and get off welfare- but still might need to do something fun and cheap, like head across the border to see a few friends.

I mean, fark, I get asked here- if you're so dirt poor, why do you have TF? Well, I got it sponsored, but even if I didn't, TF is a cheap and easy form of entertainment, especially considering I can't go anywhere as the baby is sleeping upstairs- and if I were to go somewhere/do something, it'd probably have to be towing a diaper bag, listening to an already-memorized Disney Princess CD for the millionth time, etc, etc. Even if you're bad up, you have to make time for yourself somewhere, appropriately.

Weaver95: you aren't on welfare, so....what's the problem again?

Nine posts out of ten I think you're a personable, decent guy. Then you go and post something like this.

ragekage: Because I can see if I was right now- and I could sure as hell use the money- how I could need to get away. Doesn't mean I blow a bunch of money to stay at a hotel, or buy a new TV, or something. Hell, I'd settle for getting my XBOX 360 fixed if I could. As the others have noted, you've bought completely into the welfare stereotype that's prevalent in our society, without considering that, while undoubtedly true in some circumstances, there are people out there who are doing their damnedest to get buy and get off welfare- but still might need to do something fun and cheap, like head across the border to see a few friends.

I mean, fark, I get asked here- if you're so dirt poor, why do you have TF? Well, I got it sponsored, but even if I didn't, TF is a cheap and easy form of entertainment, especially considering I can't go anywhere as the baby is sleeping upstairs- and if I were to go somewhere/do something, it'd probably have to be towing a diaper bag, listening to an already-memorized Disney Princess CD for the millionth time, etc, etc. Even if you're bad up, you have to make time for yourself somewhere, appropriately.

You silly rube, no wonder you're poor. Don't you know that anyone who is poor or getting government assistance is only allowed to spend money on food, clothing, and shelter? Poor people aren't allowed to be entertained or to relax until they reach a certain income level. I'm pretty sure I read this all in the Constitution somewhere.

Action Replay Nick: You silly rube, no wonder you're poor. Don't you know that anyone who is poor or getting government assistance is only allowed to spend money on food, clothing, and shelter? Poor people aren't allowed to be entertained or to relax until they reach a certain income level. I'm pretty sure I read this all in the Constitution somewhere.

Where in the Constitution is there anything about welfare, other than the "welfare of the nation" clause?

ragekage: As the others have noted, you've bought completely into the welfare stereotype that's prevalent in our society, without considering that, while undoubtedly true in some circumstances, there are people out there who are doing their damnedest to get buy and get off welfare- but still might need to do something fun and cheap, like head across the border to see a few friends.

wrong.

*sigh*

Only to be expected I suppose, but when you make assumptions like this, you only make it more difficult to understand why I (and others like me) consider welfare to be a blight on society.

welfare is wrong because government shouldn't be so closely and directly involved in the lives of it's citizens. not only because it's invasive. Not only because of the potential for political abuse it creates. It's wrong because of the attitude it creates.

Go ahead, roll your eyes and make funny noises....but you cannot deny that we've become a society that demands and expects entitlements. GM, Chrysler, AIG....all those big businesses with all that money were run into the ground by people who supposedly knew what they were doing. And when those 'smart people' farked up and crashed their corporations, what did they do? they demanded a government bailout....AND THEY GOT IT!

disgusting. Amazing. And the ultimate and final proof that we are a welfare society devoid of any sense of accomplishment. we're going to suck the lifeblood out of whatever is left in our economy and give it to the parasites - and the ones on welfare are just the small fish. we're going to give all our money to corporate officers and a tiny pool of shareholders in one of the largest and disgusting examples of welfare in the history of the world.

And nobody so much as bats an eye. we all just shrug and go on with life as if nothing about that transation was wrong. THAT is why welfare should be repealed. we've rewarded failure for too long, and now we're so corrupt that we don't even hold a CEO responsible for destroying his company.

Mythy: When can I 'step away from the stress" of going to work everyday day to support that woman and her kids.....WHEN?

Do you get weekends off?

Bored Horde: Weaver95: you aren't on welfare, so....what's the problem again?

Nine posts out of ten I think you're a personable, decent guy. Then you go and post something like this.

welfare offends me on a genetic level.

Goddamn people are actually attacking Welfare as "needless" and "robbery".

Good strong social security nets stop people from turning to this:


That's a picture from the Bolshevik revolution in Russia. You tell a man that he's worth nothing, and he's got nothing left to lose.

The 'hated' New Deal that the industrialists frothed about saved America from turning into the next big Communist nation.

Joey JoJo Junior Shabadoo: Where in the Constitution is there anything about welfare, other than the "welfare of the nation" clause?

It's right after the part about your sarcasm detector being broken.

Bored Horde: The 'hated' New Deal that the industrialists frothed about saved America from turning into the next big Communist nation.

Yes, and now the industrialists are leeching whatever money is left from the economy and there isn't anything left for the rest of us.

welfare (both personal AND corporate) has only delayed the inevitable. Remember - every person on welfare is someone NOT paying into the social security network. And we've got a whole bunch of baby boomers about to retire PLUS a huge spike in unemployment. combine these facts with our war debt(s), the stock market implosion and our ever increasing prison population and the picture starts to become ever more bleak.

Weaver95: blah blah blah.

Horseshiat. As I mentioned, certainly, there's abuse with the system. No doubt. But as a society, I think we have a responsibility to look after the disadvantaged amongst us, temporarily at least. I mean, last year- actually about exactly a year ago, I sat down and did about a day's worth of financial planning. I'd been accepted to a Public Ivy- a truly phenomenal opportunity- but I wasn't sure how I'd afford it, with the baby and being hundreds of miles away from any support structure, having just hollowed out my 401(k) and Roth to pay for my daughter's rather pricey hospital visit/entrance to this world.

But I got a good part-time job, I found a good and dedicated babysitter who "only" charges a hundred bucks a week, is flexible, and watches the baby on Saturdays, and I got a great financial aid package. I thought to myself, "No problem. As long as I work at least about twenty hours a week (at this point I was working 40+), and nothing goes wrong, I'll be in great shape. Heck, if anything goes wrong, there's always private student loans."

Then the economy melted, the credit markets froze, my dad had a heart attack (necessitating me to fly to the middle of West Texas overnight at an enormous cost, "mercy" fare nonetheless), my hours at work got slashed to almost nil, car broke down, etc, etc... it's been a comedy of errors. Truly. Seems like every time I get things smoothed out, something else comes along to fark with it.

I needed (still do) the help. Because I've got no safety net now- if I fall, I hit concrete, there's nothing to stop me. That's what welfare is intended to prevent. I'm sorry if your genetics applaud the thought of my entire life crashing down, probably irrevocably, just so you can feel better about yourself. I mean, I just don't have any money left, any ability to borrow anymore, no space on credit cards to charge on, no family members to loan money from. Just had a yard sale today, cleaned out a bunch of stuff (some important to me) to bring in a couple hundred bucks- it's a start, but nowhere near enough.

Thing is, too, there are plenty of people who have it worse than me. But you're essentially saying "Fark you, buddy, it ain't problem." See, but it becomes your problem. People driven to desperation are a problem. If things go any more wrong, I might have to drop out of school, and where does that leave me? With a toddler to feed, a degree I can't finish (it's a Nursing degree, meaning I have to do clinicals through in one shot), tens of thousands of dollars in debt (with no job to repay it with), etc, etc. I have the weight of my responsibilities hanging over my head every single day, understanding the consequences of what my failure will reap, feeling the shame of even needing government assistance. I don't know how long it'd take me to snap, or how I'd react, but it'd happen eventually, I'm sure.

But, please enlighten me on how kaboshing welfare entirely is a far better idea.

ragekage: But, please enlighten me on how kaboshing welfare entirely is a far better idea.

y'know, it's amazing how responsible a CEO gets if he knows that tanking his company will cost him all his money. But we told everyone in this society - EVERYONE - that hey, it was ok to be irresponsible. Go ahead, spend like there's no tomorrow! If you get into trouble, the government will just bail you out.

Now that the money is gone, we're starting to think that maybe we shouldn't have partied so hard over the past 40 years. Maybe we need to have that massive economic collapse. Maybe we need to get smacked hard. It's a harsh way to learn a lesson, but I think we might need to do this the hard way.

Shut up Weaver, you cock.

/On this one, you're wrong to the point of bigotry.
//Sometimes people need help, and private charities simply cannot keep up with demand.
///The chronic leeches, though, need to be properly removed from the system.

Weaver95: ragekage: But, please enlighten me on how kaboshing welfare entirely is a far better idea.

y'know, it's amazing how responsible a CEO gets if he knows that tanking his company will cost him all his money. But we told everyone in this society - EVERYONE - that hey, it was ok to be irresponsible. Go ahead, spend like there's no tomorrow! If you get into trouble, the government will just bail you out.

Now that the money is gone, we're starting to think that maybe we shouldn't have partied so hard over the past 40 years. Maybe we need to have that massive economic collapse. Maybe we need to get smacked hard. It's a harsh way to learn a lesson, but I think we might need to do this the hard way.

Have you ever thought about some of the things people like Sarah Palin have said and wondered how a reasonable human being could think like that? Well, welcome to the freak show.

Weaver95: ragekage: But, please enlighten me on how kaboshing welfare entirely is a far better idea.

y'know, it's amazing how responsible a CEO gets if he knows that tanking his company will cost him all his money. But we told everyone in this society - EVERYONE - that hey, it was ok to be irresponsible. Go ahead, spend like there's no tomorrow! If you get into trouble, the government will just bail you out.

Now that the money is gone, we're starting to think that maybe we shouldn't have partied so hard over the past 40 years. Maybe we need to have that massive economic collapse. Maybe we need to get smacked hard. It's a harsh way to learn a lesson, but I think we might need to do this the hard way.

I never counted on the government bailing me out, it was unthinkable. As I said, my fallback was private student loans. And my debt load is incredibly low, comparing to what I've read stories about. The car is gonna cost me $2000 to fix, and I've got $3000 on the credit card. $5000. $5000 would get me back to zero short-term debt load (minus the student loans and such). But it's $5000 more than I have. I never partied hard, I took care of myself, saved my money responsibly, planned well- and Mr. Murphy took a gander at that and said, "Hey! Time to shiat all over that parade!"

Maybe you could be more specific. What, precisely, is the lesson I'm supposed to learn here that I was previously unaware of? Apparently it's important enough, as I mentioned, to essentially destroy my and my daughter's lives- so long as I "learn my lesson". God Forbid I could get her on SCHIP to save me damn near $2,500 a year to buy medical insurance for her (alone, not including me, and not including dental/scrips/etc) out of pocket. Hell, even for part of a year! Or for someone to recognize my Cost of Attendance for school has risen due to my daughter (who is essentially a non-entity as an expense for my financial aid), to get me some more Stafford loans.

ragekage: I never counted on the government bailing me out, it was unthinkable.

see - there you go again, thinking it's all about you. That's our problem. everyone looked at the government and thought 'gee, I wonder what I can get out of this?'

And look at what we got - corporations run themeselves into the ground and get a bailout. jobs moved overseas. rising unemployment. And nobody in D.C. seems to care.

But hey, you keep thinking that it's all about you. i'm sure that'll work out great for you.

Action Replay Nick: You silly rube, no wonder you're poor. Don't you know that anyone who is poor or getting government assistance is only allowed to spend money on food, clothing, and shelter? Poor people aren't allowed to be entertained or to relax until they reach a certain income level. I'm pretty sure I read this all in the Constitution somewhere.

I'm pretty sure that spinning rims are ok, too, no?

Unemployment insurance and welfare, properly done, are public insurance to protect individuals against 'acts of God'.

Ragekage would certainly qualify.

Governments seem incapable of differentiating between the unlucky needing a brief hand and the parasites looking for a free ride. It only takes a small percentage of parasites before the taxpayer starts resenting their money being given away.

Weaver95: ragekage: I never counted on the government bailing me out, it was unthinkable.

see - there you go again, thinking it's all about you. That's our problem. everyone looked at the government and thought 'gee, I wonder what I can get out of this?'

And look at what we got - corporations run themeselves into the ground and get a bailout. jobs moved overseas. rising unemployment. And nobody in D.C. seems to care.

But hey, you keep thinking that it's all about you. i'm sure that'll work out great for you.

Dude, what the fark are you talking about? You're not even making sense anymore, and you're completely ignoring the things I asked you. I mean, what the fark, dude? For Chrissakes, if you're going to be traveling, at least change the script on the bot to display something a little more diverse.

GoDeep: Action Replay Nick: You silly rube, no wonder you're poor. Don't you know that anyone who is poor or getting government assistance is only allowed to spend money on food, clothing, and shelter? Poor people aren't allowed to be entertained or to relax until they reach a certain income level. I'm pretty sure I read this all in the Constitution somewhere.

I'm pretty sure that spinning rims are ok, too, no?

As others have said, the system should work better.

It's utterly stupid to equate poverty with a lavish lifestyle? Have you people ever left the suburbs to see urban or rural people who receive government assistance?

And I notice my question still goes unanswered: WHERE DOES IT SAY THIS WOMAN WAS GOING ON VACATION?!

As I mentioned earlier:

Since when does driving somewhere to see friends and relatives equate to a vacation? In my world, a vacation is getting AWAY from those people on an intimate retreat either alone, or with the immediate family, and some form of luxury is involved.

Unless I'm missing something here, everyone supporting this border patrol agent is an idiot who didn't bother to read the article and assumed the headline was the de facto synopsis of the story.

You folks who take any opportunity to bash the needy really do out yourselves as callous people completely devoid of empathy.

This is the thread where Weaver95 goes full retard.

Link (new window)

Just pointing this out.

that was pretty stupid of them. though i hear their border guards are absolute bastards pretty much all the time.

Ooh, Weaver in a thread about people in welfare. This is new and exciting hatred that we've never seen before.

Action Replay Nick: Since when does driving somewhere to see friends and relatives equate to a vacation? In my world, a vacation is getting AWAY from those people on an intimate retreat either alone, or with the immediate family, and some form of luxury is involved.

Unless I'm missing something here, everyone supporting this border patrol agent is an idiot who didn't bother to read the article and assumed the headline was the de facto synopsis of the story.

All fooling aside, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Unless there is a written policy of not allowing people on public assistance to enter the country, this agent's actions are arbitrary and capricious. When you consider that Canada is a a giant welfare state, it is also hypocritical.

fwiw:

"They said I don't make enough money and people on welfare shouldn't take a vacation," said Kelley, a single mother who has been on assistance for five years. "I was told that I wouldn't be allowed to cross the border until my life 'drastically changed.'"