Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

Funny, I thought the same thing when I read that headline. "Man, *that* was worded poorly."

Only moderate Muslims can really defeat the extreme ideology of fundamentalist Islam, sadly enough. Anything we can do to help push them to that position is a good thing.

I'm sure there will be a level, well thought out response to this among the followers of Jesus.

B/c He Has Risen.

Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

Uh, source?

Muslim are gay.

Or is that homosexuals? I forget.

DirkValentine: I'm sure there will be a level, well thought out response to this among the followers of Jesus.

B/c He Has Risen.

i totally misread that as "He Has Raisin"

LionelMandrake From where I'm sitting (Britain) I can say we wish muslims and non-muslims had as good and as intergrated relationship as you do in the US. I'm pretty sure France would agree too.

KaponoFor3: Only moderate Muslims can really defeat the extreme ideology of fundamentalist Islam, sadly enough. Anything we can do to help push them to that position is a good thing.

Same thing with Christianity, and it ain't ever gonna happen. Here's why:

The people who routinely criticize extremist muslims are generally western christians and atheists. The people who criticize fundamentalist christians are usually secular types, and while they might claim to be christian it really doesn't seem to be a huge part of their character. The moderate muslims and christians thus usually have more in common with the criticized than the criticizers. It's the same instinct that makes you want to defend a sibling when someone else points out his/her flaws, even if you have noticed those flaws yourself. It's the same instinct that makes you want to defend your friends if your parents criticize them, even if you yourself have criticized them in much the same manner. There's an instinct to protect the in-group from the out-group.

So Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh will have head assplosions is what you're saying then?

Precious Roy's Horse Dividers: So Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh will have head assplosions is what you're saying then?

You act like there would be a lot to that.

Rush is mustardered

rppp01a: Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

Uh, source?

You really need a source? Why do you think muslims pilot so well?

/zing!

There wouldn't be an issue if people like Obama and Bush would stop meddling in the affairs of other countries and deciding we needed to rebuild this or that government. No US in the middle east, no Americans getting blown up.


It's never that the entire idea is wrong for such politicians, they just think they've got the magic key to tweak it and it will be fixed.

So do Muslims have relations in different ways than us non-Muslims? I feel a speech on these relations would be less valuable than some videos, preferably Muslims with nice racks.

Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

What's your point?

rppp01a: Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

Uh, source?

I think it comes from Lionel Mandrake's backside.

Mr. Anon: So do Muslims have relations in different ways than us non-Muslims? I feel a speech on these relations would be less valuable than some videos, preferably Muslims with nice racks.

Through a hole in the burka.

// burqa?
// or hijab, if you wanna get freaky...

Muslims eat Dijon mustard.

bobbette: DirkValentine: I'm sure there will be a level, well thought out response to this among the followers of Jesus.

B/c He Has Risen.

i totally misread that as "He Has Raisin"

are saying he doesn't?

rppp01a: Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

Uh, source?

And what makes you think Muslims WANT to be better educated or earn more money. Who gives a shiat about that when you can get 72 (count 'em - SEVENTY-TWO) virgins just by blowing yourself up?

I know that Arab != Muslim, but Lawrence had a good point when he said: "So long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people - greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are. "

Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

They have it pretty good in Canada, and i bet with a lot less racism involved.

You are correct though that there are a lot of problems in certain areas of Europe, but not all of them so that makes your sweeping generalization pointless.

bobbette: i totally misread that as "He Has Raisin"

ilambiquated: Muslims eat Dijon mustard.

Yeah, wasn't Mohamed's wife named Khadijon?

InteriorDesignNinja: You really need a source? Why do you think muslims pilot so well?

/zing!

You got a point there. If they weren't such excellent pilots then they would be flying into buildings and stuff.
/I know

Donald_McRonald: Khadijon

You see? It's all a plot. They're all in this together. People say I'm crazy, but there's no mistaking the signs.

RemyDuron: KaponoFor3: Only moderate Muslims can really defeat the extreme ideology of fundamentalist Islam, sadly enough. Anything we can do to help push them to that position is a good thing.

Same thing with Christianity, and it ain't ever gonna happen. Here's why:

The people who routinely criticize extremist muslims are generally western christians and atheists. The people who criticize fundamentalist christians are usually secular types, and while they might claim to be christian it really doesn't seem to be a huge part of their character. The moderate muslims and christians thus usually have more in common with the criticized than the criticizers. It's the same instinct that makes you want to defend a sibling when someone else points out his/her flaws, even if you have noticed those flaws yourself. It's the same instinct that makes you want to defend your friends if your parents criticize them, even if you yourself have criticized them in much the same manner. There's an instinct to protect the in-group from the out-group.

I think this is exactly on point. Cultural change is a long and arduous project, and it's largely a generational issue. Look at issues like gay marriage in America. It's the same thing in the Muslim world, especially as the youth are given access to better education and other cultures, through stuff like the internet.

DirkValentine: bobbette: DirkValentine: I'm sure there will be a level, well thought out response to this among the followers of Jesus.

B/c He Has Risen.

i totally misread that as "He Has Raisin"

are saying he doesn't?

No, I'm an agnostic atheist. When it really comes down to it, I don't know if he has raisin.

Russky: Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

They have it pretty good in Canada, and i bet with a lot less racism involved.

You are correct though that there are a lot of problems in certain areas of Europe, but not all of them so that makes your sweeping generalization pointless.

Eh, you name a country in Europe where there is a large muslim immigrant population, and I'll show you a country where there has been clashes.

Of course, it's not really a fair comparison. Due to the US being farther away from the Middle East, and the US being regarded as the financial capital of the world, we get a lot more of the professional middle eastern immigrants, or a lot of kids from well off families who come here to go to school. I'd bet European muslim immigrants tend to be, on average, poorer and less educated than the ones who come to America. If you're looking for work as a laborer in order to support your family back home, you are probably going to have a hard enough time getting into Europe, let along across the Atlantic.

So comparing the situation of the muslim population in the US to the muslim population in Europe isn't quite fair.

bobbette: DirkValentine: bobbette: DirkValentine: I'm sure there will be a level, well thought out response to this among the followers of Jesus.

B/c He Has Risen.

i totally misread that as "He Has Raisin"

are saying he doesn't?

No, I'm an agnostic atheist. When it really comes down to it, I don't know if he has raisin.

well, i do, and fark you if you call it that. i call it "Little Dirky".

how dare you.

driven to quit: InteriorDesignNinja: You really need a source? Why do you think muslims pilot so well?

/zing!

You got a point there. If they weren't such excellent pilots then they would be flying into buildings and stuff.
/I know

Funny (or maybe not so funny) thing is, if you're an Arab and you want to take flying lessons in America, this might be the wrong decade for your apirations.

20% of Muslims are Arabs. The rest are not.

Donald_McRonald:
Khadijon

Khadijon is a traditional Klingon condiment made of horseradish and the blood of those who have dishonored your family.

Egypt is "a country that in many ways represents the heart of the Arab world," Gibbs said.

So he's saying the Arab world is virulently anti-Semitic, anti-Xian, anti-West where the vast majority of women cannot walk out of the door without suffering from sexual harassment and the majority of the population would vote in and support a terrorist group with a political wing if the US didn't prop-up a secular military dictatorship in power?

The Muslims in countries that allow them to contribute and make a living are more moderate and peaceful? Color me surprised. Maybe it is a cultural/regional thing and not a religious thing then.

attackingpencil: RemyDuron: KaponoFor3: Only moderate Muslims can really defeat the extreme ideology of fundamentalist Islam, sadly enough. Anything we can do to help push them to that position is a good thing.

Same thing with Christianity, and it ain't ever gonna happen. Here's why:

The people who routinely criticize extremist muslims are generally western christians and atheists. The people who criticize fundamentalist christians are usually secular types, and while they might claim to be christian it really doesn't seem to be a huge part of their character. The moderate muslims and christians thus usually have more in common with the criticized than the criticizers. It's the same instinct that makes you want to defend a sibling when someone else points out his/her flaws, even if you have noticed those flaws yourself. It's the same instinct that makes you want to defend your friends if your parents criticize them, even if you yourself have criticized them in much the same manner. There's an instinct to protect the in-group from the out-group.

I think this is exactly on point. Cultural change is a long and arduous project, and it's largely a generational issue. Look at issues like gay marriage in America. It's the same thing in the Muslim world, especially as the youth are given access to better education and other cultures, through stuff like the internet.

Except the youth in the Middle East are often where the radicals recruit. A young, poor, and uneducated population, like many countries in the Middle East have, is pretty much the societal equivalent to gun powder, just waiting for a spark. I think my generation (I'm 23) will be the one to legalize gay marriage in the US. I think, at the earliest, it will be the children of my generation who see peace in the Middle East.

RemyDuron: Russky: Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

They have it pretty good in Canada, and i bet with a lot less racism involved.

You are correct though that there are a lot of problems in certain areas of Europe, but not all of them so that makes your sweeping generalization pointless.

Eh, you name a country in Europe where there is a large muslim immigrant population, and I'll show you a country where there has been clashes.

Of course, it's not really a fair comparison. Due to the US being farther away from the Middle East, and the US being regarded as the financial capital of the world, we get a lot more of the professional middle eastern immigrants, or a lot of kids from well off families who come here to go to school. I'd bet European muslim immigrants tend to be, on average, poorer and less educated than the ones who come to America. If you're looking for work as a laborer in order to support your family back home, you are probably going to have a hard enough time getting into Europe, let along across the Atlantic.

So comparing the situation of the muslim population in the US to the muslim population in Europe isn't quite fair.

The US doesn't poke its Muslims into ghettos. doing their best to isolate them from employment or involvment.

Nemo's Brother: The Muslims in countries that allow them to contribute and make a living are more moderate and peaceful? Color me surprised. Maybe it is a cultural/regional thing and not a religious thing then.

I'd say culture originating from a region (Saudi Arabia exporting Wahhabism for the most part)

RemyDuron: Except the youth in the Middle East are often where the radicals recruit. A young, poor, and uneducated population, like many countries in the Middle East have, is pretty much the societal equivalent to gun powder, just waiting for a spark. I think my generation (I'm 23) will be the one to legalize gay marriage in the US. I think, at the earliest, it will be the children of my generation who see peace in the Middle East.

While that's true, I'd also imagine (without any evidence whatsoever) that that's where most extremists world-wide come from. So, while the youth are the extremists, they're also the people who will change things. Although I think you're right that it won't be this class of 20-somethings that do it. Mainly, my point is that I'm a year older than you, so you're wrong and I'm right.

Neither does Canada isolate their Muslim citizens/immigrants and thus everyone gets along better.

RemyDuron: A young, poor, and uneducated population,

Except that most terrorists, while generally in their 20s, are usually middle-class and upper-class, and at least college-educated, but very often come from a University background.

ilambiquated: Funny (or maybe not so funny) thing is, if you're an Arab and you want to take flying lessons in America, this might be the wrong decade for your apirations.

Seriously. I can see the Arabic family situation right now.

Mother: Son, here in America you can be anything you want when you grow up.
Son: Really? So I can be an Airline Pilot?
Mother: uh......

Wait, Egypt is the heart of the Arab world? Aren't the Egyptians not Arabs? Aren't they . . . Egyptians? I mean, they are Islamic (90% of the country) and speak Arabic, but they aren't ethnically Arab, right?

RemyDuron: Wait, Egypt is the heart of the Arab world? Aren't the Egyptians not Arabs? Aren't they . . . Egyptians? I mean, they are Islamic (90% of the country) and speak Arabic, but they aren't ethnically Arab, right?

You're right, but do you expect most people here or this administration to know that?

RemyDuron: Except the youth in the Middle East are often where the radicals recruit. A young, poor, and uneducated population, like many countries in the Middle East have, is pretty much the societal equivalent to gun powder, just waiting for a spark.

Except those weren't poor folk who committed the murder and mayhem on September 11th. The bunch of Doctors in Scotland(?) in the airport bombing thing is another example.


I think my generation (I'm 23) will be the one to legalize gay marriage in the US. I think, at the earliest, it will be the children of my generation who see peace in the Middle East.

Peace in the middle east? Never going to happen until we've sucked the last ounce of oil out of the ground. So wait, that might be the children of your generation. Never mind.

Tatsuma: RemyDuron: A young, poor, and uneducated population,

Except that most terrorists, while generally in their 20s, are usually middle-class and upper-class, and at least college-educated, but very often come from a University background.

Most of the recruiters and plotters are. However while you do have educated bombers, the majority who blow themselves up are poor and uneducated.

flannelled fool: Except those weren't poor folk who committed the murder and mayhem on September 11th. The bunch of Doctors in Scotland(?) in the airport bombing thing is another example.

Yeah, exactly.

If you were to make a profile of the average Islamic/Arab terrorist, he would be 25, came from a upper middle-class background, had a relatively comfortable life, never suffered direct oppression due to the West, was educated in college where he flirted with radical ideas he bought into, and decided to turn his life toward terrorism (and radical Islam).

Pfft, dork alert! Here comes Tatsuma, there goes the fun...

driven to quit: ilambiquated: Funny (or maybe not so funny) thing is, if you're an Arab and you want to take flying lessons in America, this might be the wrong decade for your apirations.

Seriously. I can see the Arabic family situation right now.

Mother: Son, here in America you can be anything you want when you grow up.
Son: Really? So I can be an Airline Pilot?
Mother: uh... wouldn't you rather run for POTUS instead?

FTFY

Fart_Machine: Most of the recruiters and plotters are. However while you do have educated bombers, the majority who blow themselves up are poor and uneducated.

No, you're completely wrong

The unexpected profile of the modern terrorist

The reality, disturbingly, is very different. A study of 172 al-Qaeda terrorists conducted four years ago by Marc Sageman, a forensic psychiatrist and former CIA case officer in Pakistan, found that 90 per cent came from a relatively stable, secure background.

Three quarters were from middle-class or upper-class families, two thirds went to college and two thirds were professionals or semi-professionals, often engineers, physicians, architects or scientists. The average age for making an active commitment to violent jihad was 26, and three quarters of the terrorists were married, most of them with children. Only one in a hundred had shown any form of psychotic disorder. Two thirds became drawn towards a terror group while living in a country that was not their homeland.

Dr Sageman's findings, published in 2004 in Understanding Terrorist Networks, led him to conclude that "most of these men were upwardly and geographically mobile". He wrote: "Because they were the best and brightest, they were sent abroad to study. They came from moderately religious, caring, middle-class families. They spoke three, four, five, six languages."

Unlike the lone serial killer, these men functioned well in groups. Indeed they depended, isolated as they were in a foreign country, on a close circle of friends who reinforced and legitimised their beliefs. "You could almost say that those least likely to cause harm individually are most likely to do so collectively," Dr Sageman wrote.

ilambiquated: rppp01a: Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

Uh, source?

I think it comes from Lionel Mandrake's backside.

Do you douchebags not know of the Google? Here's one of many(p)

Need more info? Do your own damn homework. I am not your research assistant.

Russky: Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

They have it pretty good in Canada, and i bet with a lot less racism involved.

You are correct though that there are a lot of problems in certain areas of Europe, but not all of them so that makes your sweeping generalization pointless.

I don't know much about Muslims in Canada, but I suspect you're correct.

Highway61Revisited: Lionel Mandrake: Muslims have it better in America than any other Western/Christian majority nation. Hell, they're better educated and earn more than non-Muslims. Funny how this fact gets so little attention.

What's your point?

Just an observation, nothing more. I just wish Muslims worldwide would realize that as far as their brethren are concrned, Americans are pretty damn accepting of Muslims in general - vociferous dickhead Republicans notwithstanding. It's a fact that gets too little attention...that's all.

Tatsuma: RemyDuron: Wait, Egypt is the heart of the Arab world? Aren't the Egyptians not Arabs? Aren't they . . . Egyptians? I mean, they are Islamic (90% of the country) and speak Arabic, but they aren't ethnically Arab, right?

You're right, but do you expect most people here or this administration to know that?

Tatsuma, your smarter than that. Arab Egyptians (new window)

It's not like they are helenic anymore.