"But the issues of criminality and the potential for violence aside, a closer look at the "business model" of piracy reveals that the plan makes economic sense."

Leave it to NPR to become apologists for Somali pirates.

bigpeeler: "But the issues of criminality and the potential for violence aside, a closer look at the "business model" of piracy reveals that the plan makes economic sense."

Leave it to NPR to become apologists for Somali pirates.

How is that being apologists? Makes sense to me. Not that it excuses it, of course, but thus we see that these aren't "Arr, ye matey, kill rape and plunder!" pirates.

ragekage: How is that being apologists? Makes sense to me.

It's probably easier and more self-serving in this case to just pretend the comment was merely intended as a lightly trolling bit of snark rather than an example of outright idiocy stemming from complete failure to comprehend written text. You may find that you save yourself some mental anguish that way.

Pocket Ninja: ragekage: How is that being apologists? Makes sense to me.

It's probably easier and more self-serving in this case to just pretend the comment was merely intended as a lightly trolling bit of snark rather than an example of outright idiocy stemming from complete failure to comprehend written text. You may find that you save yourself some mental anguish that way.

So did or didn't Obama order the execution of confused teenagers?

Before this, did anyone think it didn't make economic sense?

Bored Horde: So did or didn't Obama order the execution of confused teenagers?

Dude, you don't know the half of it. You know why he had them executed? The truth is that that particular pirate team included a young man who grew up in a certain Kenyan village who had discovered, buried in a clay urn beneath a yam tree, a certain document giving specific details about the birth and religious affiliation of a certain U.S. president. Obama allowed the negotiations to continue right up until this individual mentioned that he had these documents, which the pirates were hoping to use to leverage better terms. But once he learned that they were out in the open...boom, headshot. Now the documents are lost again, and can only be mentioned as rumor and innuendo. But we almost had them, see? The world almost had them. Obama will stop at nothing.

2wolves: So did or didn't Obama order the execution of confused teenagers free market capitalists?

This.

Pocket Ninja: Dude, you don't know the half of it. You know why he had them executed? The truth is that that particular pirate team included a young man who grew up in a certain Kenyan village who had discovered, buried in a clay urn beneath a yam tree, a certain document giving specific details about the birth and religious affiliation of a certain U.S. president. Obama allowed the negotiations to continue right up until this individual mentioned that he had these documents, which the pirates were hoping to use to leverage better terms. But once he learned that they were out in the open...boom, headshot. Now the documents are lost again, and can only be mentioned as rumor and innuendo. But we almost had them, see? The world almost had them. Obama will stop at nothing.

Whoa dude, it's totally unlike the Illuminati and the Freemasons to slip up and leave loose threads like that.

St_Francis_P: Before this, did anyone think it didn't make economic sense?

No.

But, it's still an interesting read as to why and how it works, and how it's structured. These are not simple rag-tag bands of people who decided to go out an hijack ships. It's a complete and successful (albeit completely illegal) business model.

Whamdangler: St_Francis_P: Before this, did anyone think it didn't make economic sense?

No.

But, it's still an interesting read as to why and how it works, and how it's structured. These are not simple rag-tag bands of people who decided to go out an hijack ships. It's a complete and successful (albeit completely illegal) business model.

Which is why the military needs to apply the RICO model that is used in the US to deal with organized crime. Except where RICO results in triple damages in court, the Navy will simply send three times the missiles.

If it's just economics, then turning up the "costs" side will fix it. But it does have to be consistent, painful, and fast in order to work.

2wolves: So did or didn't Obama order the execution of confused teenagers free market capitalists?

Free market capitalism does not include outright theft.

As for the profitability. I see an easy way to reduce their profit margins. Mount a few M2 50 cals or Oerlikon 20 mm cannons and train the crews. Configure the ships radar to detect small craft close into the ship to give the crews some heads up. IR detectors might be better than radar in this regard.





The idea of having "Q-ships" is also an attractive idea could be worth looking into.

Whamdangler: St_Francis_P: Before this, did anyone think it didn't make economic sense?

No.

But, it's still an interesting read as to why and how it works, and how it's structured. These are not simple rag-tag bands of people who decided to go out an hijack ships. It's a complete and successful (albeit completely illegal) business model.

And when you consider the opportunities that they have otherwise, the risk to reward ratio makes some sense. In the same way that dealing drugs makes sense to folks in America, when you look at the opportunities that they have with education and jobs.

Arming civilian ships is maybe less a good idea than folks might think--there's reasons that these boats aren't armed, and it has nothing to do with them being pansies, as much as the insurance companies dictating to them what the liabilities are IF they arm themselves.

Thing is, if we shut down the pirates, and the region doesn't have any real stability, it's just going to force these bands to look for other ways to raise money, and it just shifts the problem down the line, and ignores the real problem.

Well, that makes it okay then!

Wait, no it doesn't.

Avast ye, it's the economy!

I'm assembling a crew myself. Fark this wage slave bullshiat. A Pirate's Life for me!

Isn't everything illegal that people do usually because it makes economic sense? Selling drugs, robbing banks, sex slavery, etc?

Thanks for nothing article.

Crosshair: Free market capitalism does not include outright theft.

Sure it does. Why wouldn't it?

Technically, there's no government in Somalia so they're not doing anything illegally. They're simple executing a hostile takeover of corporate assets at sea. It's capitalism at its purest.

Or do you think the free market capitalists of Somalia should be constrained by the socialist laws of *other* countries?

"Economic sense" doesn't counteract "moral failing". There is more to human beings than economics. I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for people that rob others, and I have no particular interest in helping people of that inclination with foreign aid. Somalia can dry up and blow away, Islamists and pirates and idle bystanders all.

Huh, so does dealing drugs.

/Not figuring in the liability issues.

Crosshair: 2wolves: So did or didn't Obama order the execution of confused teenagers free market capitalists?

Free market capitalism does not include outright theft.

As for the profitability. I see an easy way to reduce their profit margins. Mount a few M2 50 cals or Oerlikon 20 mm cannons and train the crews. Configure the ships radar to detect small craft close into the ship to give the crews some heads up. IR detectors might be better than radar in this regard.

The idea of having "Q-ships" is also an attractive idea could be worth looking into.

The captains of these ships have said they do not want weapons on board or their crews armed. Plus, no nation will let you into port with those guns.

hubiestubert:
Thing is, if we shut down the pirates, and the region doesn't have any real stability, it's just going to force these bands to look for other ways to raise money, and it just shifts the problem down the line, and ignores the real problem.


But isn't that the American Way?

It's "economically viable".

Aexia: Crosshair: Free market capitalism does not include outright theft.

Sure it does. Why wouldn't it?

Technically, there's no government in Somalia so they're not doing anything illegally. They're simple executing a hostile takeover of corporate assets at sea. It's capitalism at its purest.

Or do you think the free market capitalists of Somalia should be constrained by the socialist laws of *other* countries?

No, capitalism does NOT include theft. Read Adam Smith, hell read Milton Friedman. The whole idea of "pure capitalism" is allowing the market to function without coercion.

Yes, because I'm sure each pirate made a business model and wrote a prospectus with analysis of the cost/reward benefit. Either that or they got drunk/high and decided to rob people for a living...

So you turn up the risks to make it less profitable. You wanna know how you do it? Here's how, they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue.

/stinger missile + pos pirate boat = shark bait

Crosshair: Free market capitalism does not include outright theft.

Where you been the last eight years?

Or it's because Somalia is the only country that is truly concerned about fixing Global Warming.

/Ramen!

bigpeeler: Leave it to NPR to become apologists for Somali pirates.

Tomorrow on NPR, an examination of bank robberies. It makes economic sense if the robbers aren't caught. We'll interview two bank robbers who will give tips on how to enter this lucrative field, including avoiding pitfalls like robbing gun stores as a warm-up. That's tomorrow, only on NPR.

The Navy should just buy some old freight ships that were going to be sold to Indian or Sri Lankan shipbreakers for destruction, load them with explosives, and operate them remotely. When they are attacked, boom, two problems solved. Perhaps the freight industry or their insurers would kick in for the cost.

Gullestrup's ship and crew were returned safely, although the pirates didn't actually want to get off the ship right away. That's because they were afraid of getting robbed by other pirates on their way back to shore, Gullestrup says, so he gave them a ride north, dropping them closer to home.

Fortunately, he says, he was going that way anyway.

Well, that was decent of him.

Crosshair: The idea of having "Q-ships" is also an attractive idea could be worth looking into.

Fark. Yeah.

40oz_A_Knight: "Economic sense" doesn't counteract "moral failing". There is more to human beings than economics. I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for people that rob others, and I have no particular interest in helping people of that inclination with foreign aid. Somalia can dry up and blow away, Islamists and pirates and idle bystanders all.

This has been brewing for a while now. The Somali state is essentially gone. Without any real central government, without a proper currency even, there isn't much that the Somalis can do--not with clan warfare and strife all over the place.

These pirates are a direct result of the Somali state drying up and blowing away.

Desperate people doing desperate things in the absence of anything looking like authority.

The headline here is misleading (a first for Fark, I'm sure). The article doesn't make any kind of economic argument for piracy by examining opportunity costs, risks, rewards, etc. It just describes how pirates operate - basically they are more like a business than a ragtag group of criminals.

Uh, I knows! They hates us for our FREEdoMs!

NPR and there silly talk such as scince and stuff. To afraid to say that pirates are mooslim and hate free people like USA.

/Hurrr.

Manfred J. Hattan:
Tomorrow on NPR, an examination of bank robberies. It makes economic sense if the robbers aren't caught. ... avoiding pitfalls like robbing gun stores as a warm-up.

Are you kidding? Robbing gun stores is incredibly profitable... If you aren't caught.

Manfred J. Hattan: bigpeeler: Leave it to NPR to become apologists for Somali pirates.

Tomorrow on NPR, an examination of bank robberies. It makes economic sense if the robbers aren't caught. We'll interview two bank robbers who will give tips on how to enter this lucrative field, including avoiding pitfalls like robbing gun stores as a warm-up. That's tomorrow, only on NPR.



Not like folks in the media haven't fallen in love with criminals before...

But the article isn't glorifying these folks--it is highlighting the problems with a failed state, and without a state, and without a lot of hope, even if we shut down these pirates, all we do is pass the problem of a fair amount of armed young men with NO prospects along to someone else.

When your enemy is ideologically motivated you need to either retrain them or shoot them.

When economics drives them its more shades of gray.

We need to tell the Italian mobs and Asian fisherman to leave the Somalian coast alone. If they have a choice between piracy that has a low rate of return vs. high risk and fishing that has a average rate of return with low risk which will they choose?

to bad we let the fish get over fished and ones left are toxic

Much organized crime is profitable and makes economic sense. That's why it's still around.

/Piracy is a crime.
//And them pirates is organized.
///NPR is stating the obvious.

or maybe its because they are sick of foreign boats dumping industrial waste off of their coast and/or stealing all of their fish.

DigitalCoffee: So you turn up the risks to make it less profitable. You wanna know how you do it? Here's how, they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue.

/stinger missile + pos pirate boat = shark bait

Wow, you sound so burly and strong!

Gee, sounds like a nice little racket they got going.
This is entertaining chit chat and all... Now can we get back to shooting them?

DigitalCoffee: /stinger missile + pos pirate boat = shark bait

Stingers are anti-aircraft, but thanks for playing

bigpeeler: "But the issues of criminality and the potential for violence aside, a closer look at the "business model" of piracy reveals that the plan makes economic sense."

Leave it to NPR to become apologists for Somali pirates.

leave it to fark to love pirates.....unless they're black.

/go pirates
//beat ninjas

From TFA: "But the issues of criminality and the potential for violence aside,"

Um, NO.

Not "aside" - those are the only things that matter. I'm not discussing anything else. Thanks anyway.

and for the rest of you

way south: Gee, sounds like a nice little racket they got going.
This is entertaining chit chat and all... Now can we get back to shooting them?

That's a tabor, isn't it?.

Manfred J. Hattan:
Tomorrow on NPR, an examination of bank robberies. It makes economic sense if the robbers aren't caught. We'll interview two bank robbers who will give tips on how to enter this lucrative field, including avoiding pitfalls like robbing gun stores as a warm-up. That's tomorrow, only on NPR.

if we can compare somali pirates to bank robbers, can we also compare republicans to hitler? i mean, a conservative is a conservative, right?

Manfred J. Hattan: bigpeeler: Leave it to NPR to become apologists for Somali pirates.

Tomorrow on NPR, an examination of bank robberies. It makes economic sense if the robbers aren't caught. We'll interview two bank robbers who will give tips on how to enter this lucrative field, including avoiding pitfalls like robbing gun stores as a warm-up. That's tomorrow, only on NPR.

Actually, despite the amount of snark in this comment, this is exactly correct. Robbery stopped being economically viable for two reasons: national enforcement by the FBI prevented robbers from crossing state/county lines to get away (better enforcement) 2) the end of the great depression (improving overall conditions.)

I wonder whether we'll bother to do the second part in this case... or are we just going to use enforcement to hide the symptoms (piracy) without dealing the underlying problem (thousands of desperate armed men who are going to turn to greed or God for redress of grievances.) We have been lucky that these paricular knuckleheads have stuck to greed and aren't getting involved with religious violence.

We Americans understand the power of constructively channeled greed. Hell, the best of us would be pirates in the same situation, rather than sitting on our arses waiting to starve.

I really don't see the gray area in all of this. It's not exactly stealing a loaf of bread for your starving family.