I read this earlier and even considered submitting it. And then I thought, "What the hell has happened to the magizine of 'Free Minds - Free Markets' when this silly autobiographical attack on the author's own right to contract makes it past the editors?"

MuadDib: I read this earlier and even considered submitting it. And then I thought, "What the hell has happened to the magizine of 'Free Minds - Free Markets' when this silly autobiographical attack on the author's own right to contract makes it past the editors?"

That's what I was thinking. A publication dedicated to free markets, and this person voluntarily accepted a rate for their labor, then complains.

El Chode: MuadDib: That's what I was thinking. A publication dedicated to free markets, and this person voluntarily accepted a rate for their labor, then complains.

Reason has gone completely to the dogs since Postrel left and Gillespie took over as EIC. I had a multi-year subscription that straddled that changover and, by the end, could barely stand to open it any more.

El Chode: MuadDib: I read this earlier and even considered submitting it. And then I thought, "What the hell has happened to the magizine of 'Free Minds - Free Markets' when this silly autobiographical attack on the author's own right to contract makes it past the editors?"

That's what I was thinking. A publication dedicated to free markets, and this person voluntarily accepted a rate for their labor, then complains.

actually, sounds pretty much like the mentality of an Obama voter, wants something for nothing as paid for by someone else. And, if you look at what Obama is doing with Chrysler creditors (they have a legal contract that he wants over-turned b/c he says, so that the unions are protected), Obama has the same mentality himself.

MuadDib: Reason has gone completely to the dogs since Postrel left and Gillespie took over as EIC. I had a multi-year subscription that straddled that changover and, by the end, could barely stand to open it any more.

I also think it's a lot of people's lack of knowledge of the philosophies that underlie their preferred school of thought. Everyone wants their freedom but no one understands the price. Sure the author makes an interesting point, but it's not really based on the most sound premises.

Then again, I could just be a disillusioned philosophy major.

Doublek111: actually, sounds pretty much like the mentality of an Obama voter, wants something for nothing as paid for by someone else. And, if you look at what Obama is doing with Chrysler creditors (they have a legal contract that he wants over-turned b/c he says, so that the unions are protected), Obama has the same mentality himself.

The thing is, the author's point does the most work to supporting some sort of text-message-answering union or something. I don't think he'd be happy with that.

El Chode: Everyone wants their freedom but no one understands the price.

Excellent summation. Modern political thought in a nutshell.

Occam's Chainsaw: El Chode: Everyone wants their freedom but no one understands the price.

Excellent summation. Modern political thought in a nutshell.

Concur

The only reason to read Reason any more is Radley Balko. Everyone else there is too concerned with being a hipster contrarian.

House of Tards: The only reason to read Reason any more is Radley Balko. Everyone else there is too concerned with being a hipster contrarian.

I scan it more to find issues going on, less for their opinions on the issues. Stuff like the Frederick story in MD, or the dispensaries in CA

True freedom to contract died with Lochner.

You mean Obama ISN'T going to make my mortgage payment and pay my gas bill for me?!?!

WTF!?!?!

I don't understand the problem. Isn't working for less than minimum wage a Change? Doesn't it make you Hope to earn more someday? Is this not hope and change?

Wow...behold the next Talking Point of the Butthurt™ brought to you by Buttweiser.

starsrift: I don't understand the problem. Isn't working for less than minimum wage a Change? Doesn't it make you Hope to earn more someday? Is this not hope and change?

Dude, Obama has delivered change. My family gave him $25K last year, and we got $0.57 back. That's change. Two quarters, one nickel, and two pennies. Yay change!!!

Why does the magazine of free minds and free markets hate free markets?

The right wing is imploding into a singularity of hypocrisy.

Because you were a volunteer?

El Chode: Everyone wants their freedom but no one understands the price.

Freedom costs a buck o' five.

Yes, lay it all on Obama. True, he used the service, but AT&T and McDonald's are mentioned as using the service but you don't see any butthurt towards them.

Pick and Choose Op-Ed Journalism - Your MSM since 1992

I love it. They run out of things to complain about, so now they're complaining about sh*t that happened during the primaries.

I finally RTFA. He accepted a position as a contractor, to be the equivalent of a mechanical turk. My sympathy is even less.

I volunteered for Obama. They didn't pay me jack.

Didn't care. I had more important things on my mind, like getting my man elected.

I'm confused about this article... the author is ostensibly a believer in free-markets but complains that he was hired at at free-market wage? I couldn't think of a more perfect example of why regulations exist

Why did you sign up for a job with a piece rate that nets you less than minimum wage?

/in the right thread this time

captainktainer: I finally RTFA. He accepted a position as a contractor, to be the equivalent of a mechanical turk. My sympathy is even less.

Read the bottem where he dropped out of Naropa, not once but twice.

/ A more wretched hive of patchuli and dreadlocks you will not find.

spidermann: Yes, lay it all on Obama. True, he used the service, but AT&T and McDonald's are mentioned as using the service but you don't see any butthurt towards them.

Pick and Choose Op-Ed Journalism - Your MSM since 1992

I think the difference is that Obama seems to advocate paying people higher wages, as politician, which makes it hypocripsy.

For AT&T and MacD's, I don't think they want to pay people higher wages and so it isn't hypocripsy, but instead, just capitalism.

don't conservatives always tell people who don't like their job to simply get a new job?

Let the free market decide

spidermann: Yes, lay it all on Obama. True, he used the service, but AT&T and McDonald's are mentioned as using the service but you don't see any butthurt towards them.

Pick and Choose Op-Ed Journalism - Your MSM since 1992

McDonalds claims to be leading a peaceful revolution for the benefit of the downtrodden, who conveniently are somehow everyone? Damn, I must have slept longer than I thought last night. What year is it? Hello, future!

//Though, to be fair, McDonalds has done more to benefit the poor by making cheap calories available than any government in the last half-century or so. That and giving the unskilled jobs...

Secret Master of All Flatulence - starsrift: I don't understand the problem. Isn't working for less than minimum wage a Change? Doesn't it make you Hope to earn more someday? Is this not hope and change?

Dude, Obama has delivered change. My family gave him $25K last year, and we got $0.57 back. That's change. Two quarters, one nickel, and two pennies. Yay change!!!



Illustrating why Republicans aren't funny OR good leaders... They leap immediately to the obvious without ever realizing there might be a better joke or a better solution if they'd just give it a few minutes of thought instead going with the first thing that pops into their gut.

So the guy accepted work at Indian wages and is a free marketeer?

And on top of that, he's too stupid to do any one of the dozens of other online earning opportunities that are legit and actually pay better than pennies? He could easily make minimum wage or higher writing articles for "content" sites, for example.

This dude's a poster boy for the cognitive dissonance of the right.

It's called merit pay, biatch. You signed up to do piece work and sucked at it.

Doublek111: And, if you look at what Obama is doing with Chrysler creditors (they have a legal contract that he wants over-turned b/c he says, so that the unions are protected), Obama has the same mentality himself.

The Wall Street investment firm executives have contracts too. Just because you've got a contract doesn't mean you get it. You hooked up with an unsafe investment, and there's more important things then giving you your silver of pie. You lost. It happens. Move on.

Jim_Callahan: spidermann: Yes, lay it all on Obama. True, he used the service, but AT&T and McDonald's are mentioned as using the service but you don't see any butthurt towards them.

Pick and Choose Op-Ed Journalism - Your MSM since 1992

McDonalds claims to be leading a peaceful revolution for the benefit of the downtrodden, who conveniently are somehow everyone? Damn, I must have slept longer than I thought last night. What year is it? Hello, future!

//Though, to be fair, McDonalds has done more to benefit the poor by making cheap calories available than any government in the last half-century or so. That and giving the unskilled jobs...

Obama isn't making heart attacks in a bun.

The author deliberately chose to pick Obama as the focus of the article. Mentioning McDonald's and AT&T was an afterthought, hoping to make it seem like he wasn't just railing against Obama. That is Pick and Choose Op-Ed Journalism, which is what the MSM has been doing for a long time.

Nevermind the fact that the guy was hired on as an individual contractor. As an individual contractor he has no right to minimum wage. He either negotiates a better rate or accepts the rate offered to him. This has nothing to do with Obama directly, as it is a company that happened to be used by Obama's campaign as well as McDonald's and AT&T. The company hired out individual contractors. An individual contractor is a self-employed person who offers a service to a person, company, or entity for what they believe to be a fair and negotiated price.

I should know, I am one. Do I make minimum wage compared to the time I put into projects? No. Do I make more in one project than most people do in a month of minimum wage? Yes. Why? Because I have set rates and negotiate rates dependent upon the job being done. Sometimes a job that is 40 hours of work ends up being $3.00 an hour, some times a job that is 20 hours of work ends up being $30.00 an hour.

This guy is butthurt that he couldn't get minimum wage for an individual contract job.

(Don't confuse "individual contract" with "contract". A contract job IS a wage job, or a salary job, where a person is getting paid a set rate for work for a period of time with the employer. An individual contract is a self-employed person hired out by an entity at the negotiated rate for the job or milestones.)

Um, I'll just point out most campaign positions are voluntary. You don't take the position unless you believe in the candidate. What the f*ck is Reason doing if not attacking Obama for the sake of attacking Obama?

from his website linked at the bottom of the article

"Promoting Online Chaos Since 2003"
Fighting to Keep the Internet Anarchic! Disrupting Conformity!
More FNORDS per page than any other website of its kind!
It's the Website That Doesn't Make Any Sense! FNORD!


This guy is full of shiat. Plain and simple. He works for ChaCha not for the Obama campaign and ChaCha explicitly states that you are considered an independent contractor and simply that. If he wanted to make more money than the pitiful amount that he was being paid through ChaCha and the Obama campaign by extension then he should have gone out and gotten a different job. In other words this guy is just trying to biatch and moan about not making any real money while "working" for a guy that campaigned on giving everyone an equal role in whatever.

And I say this because I work for ChaCha in the same capacity that he does. The only difference is that I only do it from time to time and do not rely on it as anything more than an extra check mainly for gas or entertainment. And yeah on average you make about a buck or two an hour but guess what? The job is not designed to be a career, hell it's more of a hobby than anything. I mean seriously the vast majority of questions are:

What movie is playing at X?
Can you tell me more information about X? (lots of stalkerish questions)
Where in X can I score some Y?
How deep is a vagina? (yup I got that one)
Who won World War II? (yes another real one)
Are you four popped collars cool? (real)
and on and on.

Trust me this guy is nothing more than a douche or tool who is simply trying to put reason to his own failures in life by blaming someone that happened to use the service to maximize their efficiency in a particular goal. In this case the Obama campaign.

Now if he had worked an office, devoted time, and effort and resources, was told that he was going to make X amount of money and then was stiffed then yes I would be willing to listen to his argument and possibly even take sides with him, but when he shows the level of cognitive dissonance that he shows by blaming someone else due to extension then he's just an idiot or worse, a moron.

/rant over...
//Yes I work for ChaCha, but I also have a real world job and several side jobs.

A two time Naropa drop out with a website that apparently hasn't been updated since 1994. My guess is that this guy spends a lot of time whining about his lot in life.

Gosling: I volunteered for Obama. They didn't pay me jack.

Didn't care. I had more important things on my mind, like getting my man elected.

Hell man, not only did I volunteer for him, but I gave him the maximum contribution from the salary that I did work for.

Also, it is annoying to me that a "free market" devoted magazine would publish this doggerel tripe that seems to amount to, "I accepted a position that didn't pay me as much as I would like".

Tell me, "Reason": WHERE ARE YOUR FREE MARKETS NOW?

Jim_Callahan//Though, to be fair, McDonalds has done more to benefit fatten the poor by making processing cheap calories available than any government in the last half-century or so. That and giving legislating the unskilled under 18 jobs...

FTFY

He's farking looking at emails and routing them for an hour.

I'm sorry, but if he were making more than 7 dollars a hour it would be just unfair.

5-7 dollars is the minimum wage. If you're making less, the worker is having free time, and that really doesn't count.

Edit: Damn I'd like to get a job at that place. I've been jobless for almost a year now and I know tons of shiat. I pretty much sit at my computer all day anyways.

Lucky son of a biatch.

Also the workers are hired as independent contractors. Nothing wrong with it. Nothing you can do bout it.

TwistedFark: Tell me, "Reason": WHERE ARE YOUR FREE MARKETS NOW?

B...b...b...but OBAMA!!! SOCIALISM!!!

I'm not sure what makes him a bigger douche: stretching this far to make a stupid attack on Obama, or calling a job he chose to do where you work part-time from home on a computer in any way similar to working in a sweatshop. Yeah, definitely the second one.

I also like the point at the end where he talks about workers protecting their interests. I'd be very interested to hear what he thinks of unions...

Did I get this straight that this guy isn't satisfied with not getting paid enough to NOT get off his fat ass and out of his home to work a real job?

Umm, I missed where he negotiated an hourly wage with them. It seems like they paid him per call, which he is more or less allowed to do as quickly and often as he sees fit. So theoretically he could make any amount per hour based on how much he gets done. I fail to see how this is any way relates to minimum wage other than Obama stole his lunch money and he wanted to find something to complain about.

French Rage: Umm, I missed where he negotiated an hourly wage with them. It seems like they paid him per call, which he is more or less allowed to do as quickly and often as he sees fit. So theoretically he could make any amount per hour based on how much he gets done. I fail to see how this is any way relates to minimum wage other than Obama stole his lunch money and he wanted to find something to complain about.

The way ChaCha works is like this:

Someone has a question and sends a text to ChaCha, then someone else takes the question, rewrites it if necessary and sends it to someone else who will google and answer and send it back to the person with the question. His job was to rewrite and send questions to the googlers and that was about it.

Each question depending on the type pays between 10 cents and 21 cents so you figure the average is about 12-15 cents. Each one takes an average of 1 minute and a half since you need to cite a source for each answer even if you know the answer off the top of your head. I bookmark sites that I know will help in this case due to the vast majority of questions being rather predictable after a while.

Weekends or big game weeks have the heaviest traffic and you can make some good money if you are on the computer all day. On slow days you might get one or two questions every half hour. But as I said before, it's not a bad gig for some gas money especially if you are an insomniac such as myself, however I would not attempt to make a living off of it and generally I only do any ChaCha work on weekends or days that I'm off since so I average about a hundred, a hundred fifty bucks a month. I can make more but I do like to see the sun, and go out and have a life therefore I don't spend all my time in front of the computer.

As for negotiating wages, there is no such thing in this type of job since you pretty much work whenever you want to and the pay structure is clearly and plainly outlined.

I subscribed to Reason for a year and did not renew. It was just a seething echo chamber of idiocy and selective outrage as any other mindless partisan hack publication.

There was no exchange of viewpoints or ideas. Their selective outrage of "illegal immigrants" while ignoring the profit winfalls "illegal employers" was the last straw.

If they're serious about reform there needs to be dialog not more brainless rhetoric.

scruffy1: French Rage: Umm, I missed where he negotiated an hourly wage with them. It seems like they paid him per call, which he is more or less allowed to do as quickly and often as he sees fit. So theoretically he could make any amount per hour based on how much he gets done. I fail to see how this is any way relates to minimum wage other than Obama stole his lunch money and he wanted to find something to complain about.

The way ChaCha works is like this:

Someone has a question and sends a text to ChaCha, then someone else takes the question, rewrites it if necessary and sends it to someone else who will google and answer and send it back to the person with the question. His job was to rewrite and send questions to the googlers and that was about it.

Each question depending on the type pays between 10 cents and 21 cents so you figure the average is about 12-15 cents. Each one takes an average of 1 minute and a half since you need to cite a source for each answer even if you know the answer off the top of your head. I bookmark sites that I know will help in this case due to the vast majority of questions being rather predictable after a while.

Weekends or big game weeks have the heaviest traffic and you can make some good money if you are on the computer all day. On slow days you might get one or two questions every half hour. But as I said before, it's not a bad gig for some gas money especially if you are an insomniac such as myself, however I would not attempt to make a living off of it and generally I only do any ChaCha work on weekends or days that I'm off since so I average about a hundred, a hundred fifty bucks a month. I can make more but I do like to see the sun, and go out and have a life therefore I don't spend all my time in front of the computer.

As for negotiating wages, there is no such thing in this type of job since you pretty much work whenever you want to and the pay structure is clearly and plainly outlined.

How do you get in?

lohphat: I subscribed to Reason for a year and did not renew. It was just a seething echo chamber of idiocy and selective outrage as any other mindless partisan hack publication.

Reason has fallen squarely in the Republicans' camp. These so-called libertarians expose their true selves whenever a Democrat is in office. They're not independent at all, they're just Republicans that sometimes disagree. Despite their libertarian claims, you'll never find a socially liberal articles, just more Randian economic bullsh*t.

Wolf Blitzer is a Substitute Teacher: lohphat: I subscribed to Reason for a year and did not renew. It was just a seething echo chamber of idiocy and selective outrage as any other mindless partisan hack publication.

Reason has fallen squarely in the Republicans' camp. These so-called libertarians expose their true selves whenever a Democrat is in office. They're not independent at all, they're just Republicans that sometimes disagree. Despite their libertarian claims, you'll never find a socially liberal articles, just more Randian economic bullsh*t.

There's usually a token "legalize marijuana" article once every few months.