Hey, if anyone knows about failure, it's them!

Sometimes you gotta start at the bottom to work your way up.

/Who are they kidding?

This train wreck has been fascinating to watch, to be sure, but perhaps we should focus on the things that actually matter and let these retards go off into the wilderness and implode on their own.

We should instead be talking about two things:
1) What the current government is doing to fix things
2) What party is going to replace the Republican Party

I vote for the Libertarians. Now if they'd just get off of their farking asses and do something to seize the reins.

The only reason the GOP gets any support is because of their "brand recognition". People only still support them because those people still have not discovered that there are more than two parties and there are candidates that better represent them. As soon as they do, bye bye GOP and we can finally get some real fiscal conservatives and tell the moral conservatives to go STFU because it's not the governments job to legislate morality.

That being said, the Democrats are doing the same thing to a much lesser degree. Give them 10-15 years or so and they will probably be in the same boat.

I no fan of his policies, but I would have taken Jeb over George in a second. At least there is a bit of independent thought kicking around there.

Crosshair: That being said, the Democrats are doing the same thing to a much lesser degree. Give them 10-15 years or so and they will probably be in the same boat.

They were in the same boat 20-30 years ago. Now it's the other guy's turn. The problem is, the Republicans aren't learning from the Democratic Party's mistakes. Which is fine, I guess, since I hate those Republican farks anyway.

But we really do need an opposition party, so let's get those Libertarians to step up to the goddamn plate already. Jesus, what do they need - a written invitation?

vartian: I no fan of his policies, but I would have taken Jeb over George in a second. At least there is a bit of independent thought kicking around there.

THIS. He wasn't a complete disaster as governor. Still, I don't the Bush name/brand is something people will gravitate to. Too soon.

Diogenes: THIS. He wasn't a complete disaster as governor. Still, I don't the Bush name/brand is something people will gravitate to. Too soon.

Enough with the goddamn dynasties. There's no reason to keep rewarding that family with power.

Lando Lincoln: I vote for the Libertarians. Now if they'd just get off of their farking asses and do something to seize the reins.

Kinda hard when most voters continue to support the two party screw fest. It doesn't matter how good your product is if people continue to buy the vastly inferior product that has brand recognition.

They might be able to take over the GOP, but not as long as the current GOP leadership is in place. They would probably be better to just stay separate and let the GOP destruct.

FTFA: Meanwhile, a debate broke out among Republicans Wednesday on what to do to make up for the loss of Pennsylvania's Specter to the Democrats.

The question seemed largely centered on whether the party should purge moderate voices like Specter and embrace its conservative roots or seek to broaden its appeal to regain a competitive position against Democrats, The New York Times said.

Oh, please keep purging. C'mon, girls! You're still fat!

It will be cool to see McCain roll the dice again.

First Palin. Then Joe the Plumber. I want to bet on his next roll. It'll either be Kim Jong-il or Britney Spears.

Lando Lincoln: I vote for the Libertarians. Now if they'd just get off of their farking asses and do something to seize the reins.

Do they actually want the responsibility of having to do things ? They seem to operate best when sitting on the sidelines telling everyone how much smarter they are while never having their ideas actually put to the test.

Funny how the most tolerant people (liberals) are the most intolerant when someone has a view different than their own.

vartian: I no fan of his policies, but I would have taken Jeb over George in a second. At least there is a bit of independent thought kicking around there.

Given his behavior during the Terri Schiavo fiasco, I'm not sure I'm buying this.

Another tired stereotype, can we get someone new to fill in for necropoultryac who will actually at least try ? I'll even sponsor Tommy at this point, at least he gave us whole thoughts and not just little sound bites.

necropoultryac: Funny how the most tolerant people (liberals) are the most intolerant when someone has a view different than their own.

Oh THANK YOU for that little bit of Sean Hannity/Glenn Beck channeling. I was beginning to worry who would pick up the slack around here.

Seriously, next time you have a thought, just...let it go.

Mordant: Do they actually want the responsibility of having to do things ? They seem to operate best when sitting on the sidelines telling everyone how much smarter they are while never having their ideas actually put to the test.

I think they'd do well as the majority party of Congress. The people in charge of the purse strings. We should keep having Democratic Presidents saying, "We need to buy this" and the Libertarians saying, "NO! We can't afford that!"

That would be a pretty good balance.

Control_this: It will be cool to see McCain roll the dice again.

First Palin. Then Joe the Plumber. I want to bet on his next roll. It'll either be Kim Jong-il or Britney Spears.



"Don't give me the kiss of death, you black widow!"

necropoultryac: Funny how the most tolerant people (liberals) are the most intolerant when someone has a view different than their own.

That must be why Democrats keep losing election.

Oh, wait...

/ hey, it beats Earl Scheib :)

tnpir: vartian: I no fan of his policies, but I would have taken Jeb over George in a second. At least there is a bit of independent thought kicking around there.

Given his behavior during the Terri Schiavo fiasco, I'm not sure I'm buying this.

Oh...you know, I forgot about that crap. Well, I suppose it's shiat either way you turn between those two.

Diogenes: THIS. He wasn't a complete disaster as governor. Still, I don't the Bush name/brand is something people will gravitate to. Too soon.

Hey, you saw how successful Rupert Hitler was in his bid to lead West Germany after WWII.

Christ...They really don't get it, do they? I mean, they REALLY don't!

Hilarious.

They should call it something like the Project for a New American Century.

Wait, that's already been done.

Well. Some variation on that. That will say success for sure.

Crosshair: Kinda hard when most voters continue to support the two party screw fest. It doesn't matter how good your product is if people continue to buy the vastly inferior product that has brand recognition.

Maybe the Libertarians should shoot more at the local level rather than going for the big prize every 4 years.

Lando Lincoln:
I vote for the Libertarians. Now if they'd just get off of their farking asses and do something to seize the reins.

Yea, that would be awesome. Remove all government restrictions so wonderful capitalists like Bernie Ebbers, Kenneth Lay, Bernie Madoff, Charles Keating, etc. are free to run their businesses any way they see fit, with no oversight. If they screw up, we don't have any recourse, but that isn't a problem, rich people always know whats best for us.

National Council for a New America
Jesus, if that doesn't sound scary I don't know what does.

FeedTheCollapse: Crosshair: Kinda hard when most voters continue to support the two party screw fest. It doesn't matter how good your product is if people continue to buy the vastly inferior product that has brand recognition.

Maybe the Libertarians should shoot more at the local level rather than going for the big prize every 4 years.

Or go for the big prize with a candidate that people want to pay attention to.

susansto-helit: Oh, please keep purging. C'mon, girls! You're still fat!

Beautifully evil.

haemaker: Yea, that would be awesome. Remove all government restrictions so wonderful capitalists like Bernie Ebbers, Kenneth Lay, Bernie Madoff, Charles Keating, etc. are free to run their businesses any way they see fit, with no oversight. If they screw up, we don't have any recourse, but that isn't a problem, rich people always know whats best for us.

...and that's why we have the opposition party to cool their jets on deregulation.

It's the whole yin-yang thing.

necropoultryac: Funny how the most tolerant people (liberals) are the most intolerant when someone has a view different than their own.

this is true of all people on the extremes
you could argue that the most christian people on the far right, would also be the most tolerant (love you neighbor!) and yet they are the most intolerant of any thought which is not identical of their own

and this is the HELL which our political leaders have lead us
/sigh

Lando Lincoln: ...and that's why we have the opposition party to cool their jets on deregulation.

It's the whole yin-yang thing.

Ok, so you don't want to go full-libertarian, you just want a different balance. Makes sense.

Ok, so we've got the John McCain- the man that most "conservatives" blame for losing the election because he wasn't "conservative" enough.

Jeb Bush who is....George W. Bush's brother.

and Mitt Romney who the hard core fundies think is a cultist and the fiscal conservatives (hopefully) recognize failed spectacularly when given a state to run with a healthy budget.

How about no.

haemaker: Lando Lincoln: ...and that's why we have the opposition party to cool their jets on deregulation.

It's the whole yin-yang thing.

Ok, so you don't want to go full-libertarian, you just want a different balance. Makes sense.

The Libertarian party could be fine, as long as it's not run by the hard core types who want to do away with the IRS the Dept of Education and the Interstate Highway System.

This one guy I know who was a "libertarian" changed his tune when he got laid off. He *immediately* started complaining that he didn't have health care. I didn't point out how his political philosophy was wrong, because the dude lost his job, and I'm not a dick*, but I'm storing it in my mind for when he gets back on his feet and starts biatching about the welfare state again.


*always I'm not always a dick.

Rev. Skarekroe: Or go for the big prize with a candidate that people want to pay attention to.

maybe, but I still say the need to build their party from the ground up before they really have a shot at getting in a Libertarian President. Right now, the Libertarian Party is the Look Cool on The Internets Party, but with a more national profile due to senators/congressmen, they would more easily assimilated into mainstream politics.

How do these people not understand that the reason the Democratic Party has done so well is that they moved to the center over the last few elections? Leaving aside 2008 due to the market crash, you can take 2006 and see that people voted Dem because they voted for the moderate candidate, not the hard right that represents the Repub party these days. So, since moving right doesn't work, what's the Repub solution? Move more right! Keep it up morons, the American people are laughing at you.

Anyone that thinks the Libertarian Party is some sort of more palatable antidote to the radicalization of the Republican Party hasn't really read their platform.

Cagey B: Anyone that thinks the Libertarian Party is some sort of more palatable antidote to the radicalization of the Republican Party hasn't really read their platform.

I don't know if many of them actually know the Libertarians have a platform. Most of the ones I've talked with are there for the lower taxes and legal weed. They're kind of like those kids you knew in high school who were all for anarchy, because they hated cops and wanted to act like jackasses, without knowing there is an actual political philosophy for anarchism.

I've only met a couple who could actually articulate the platform and justify the philosophy. Libertarian, not anarchy.

FeedTheCollapse: Rev. Skarekroe: Or go for the big prize with a candidate that people want to pay attention to.

maybe, but I still say the need to build their party from the ground up before they really have a shot at getting in a Libertarian President. Right now, the Libertarian Party is the Look Cool on The Internets Party, but with a more national profile due to senators/congressmen, they would more easily assimilated into mainstream politics.

Well, I do my bit by voting L in every election where one is running (except Barr - couldn't bring myself to do that). But I think a high profile candidate in the big race - someone like Perot, or Ventura before he got silly again - would give the party the attention they need.

Aarontology: Cagey B: Anyone that thinks the Libertarian Party is some sort of more palatable antidote to the radicalization of the Republican Party hasn't really read their platform.

I don't know if many of them actually know the Libertarians have a platform. Most of the ones I've talked with are there for the lower taxes and legal weed. They're kind of like those kids you knew in high school who were all for anarchy, because they hated cops and wanted to act like jackasses, without knowing there is an actual political philosophy for anarchism.

I've only met a couple who could actually articulate the platform and justify the philosophy. Libertarian, not anarchy.

A couple of the other parties look OK on the surface. Then you read their charters and discover otherwise.

Cagey B: Anyone that thinks the Libertarian Party is some sort of more palatable antidote to the radicalization of the Republican Party hasn't really read their platform.

Their core tenets are:
1) Let the free markets take care of it.
2) Stop the government from making laws to limit our freedoms.

I think this is a great counterpoint to the Democratic Party. Between the two parties we could have a good government.

Lando Lincoln: Their core tenets are:
1) Let the free markets take care of it.
2) Stop the government from making laws to limit our freedoms.

I think this is a great counterpoint to the Democratic Party. Between the two parties we could have a good government.

People that don't believe in the concept of public schools, think that government has no role to play in environmental protection whatsoever and are against any "redistribution of wealth" of any sort are not an effective partner. You'd be exchanging one group of extremists for another.

An actual opposition party governing from the center-right would have to buy into the fact that government should do at least some things instead of letting private industry handle them. You can't just sit in the corner and go "government is bad NUHHHH!!".

Diogenes: He wasn't a complete disaster as governor.

As governor, no, but his policies are destroying the state right now. It's completely bankrupt, because he cut taxes so much we can't afford to keep any of our schools open.

Mordant: Lando Lincoln: I vote for the Libertarians. Now if they'd just get off of their farking asses and do something to seize the reins.

Do they actually want the responsibility of having to do things ? They seem to operate best when sitting on the sidelines telling everyone how much smarter they are while never having their ideas actually put to the test.

Libertarians are much more interested in having the "I'm more Libertarian than you" argument amongst themselves, then actually solving problems.

Diogenes: A couple of the other parties look OK on the surface. Then you read their charters and discover otherwise.

I've noticed that among third parties, the plank that really turns off a lot of people is often the one that the party is most vocal about.

Jolonco: Sometimes you gotta start at the bottom to work your way up.

/Who are they kidding?

Well... there's going into the wilderness for a while, a la Churchill in the 30's, or there's monkey poo-flinging methodology whereby you fling whatever you got and see what you hit and if what you fling is sticking to what you hit.

necropoultryac:

Funny how the most tolerant people (liberals) are the most intolerant when someone has a view different than their own.

I'm tolerating you right now.

I think it's brilliant.

A lot easier to win an election when you can assign, rather than count, votes

Republicans don't get it, America has changed while your values are still the same. The country is turning brown not white, wedge issues such as gay marriage or abortion isn't scary anymore and your obsession in keeping the tent as small as possible is the end to your doing.

I have to admit I am thoroughly enjoying in seeing a national party disintegrating. You don't see that happening in a lifetime.

/You idiots actually thought an 80 year old geezer with skin cancer was attractive to young voters?