And every other news show calls it "enhanced interrogation".

I saw the short edit on the Daily show last night and was disappointed. Jon spent too much time preaching at him, it should have edited better and given him more time to talk.

/And no, I didn't go to the website to watch the whole interview.

I'll have to watch this later. Stewart is preachier than he should be, but I can tolerate it.

DamnYankees: And every other news show calls it "enhanced interrogation".

"other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

WaltzingMathilda: DamnYankees: And every other news show calls it "enhanced interrogation".

"other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

Heh. I'd beg to differ. TDS is more like a real news show than about any other farking "news" show out there.

Senescent Dawn: I'll have to watch this later. Stewart is preachier than he should be, but I can tolerate it.

I can forgive him for being preachy because we're not talking about health care or economics, but because WE'RE TALKING ABOUT farkING TORTURE.

WaltzingMathilda: DamnYankees: And every other news show calls it "enhanced interrogation".

"other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

TDS doesn't try to be a news show. It doesn't call itself a news show. Unfortunately it still is because it offers generally better anaysis and commentary of current events than most of the prime time and late night programming of the three major news networks.

WaltzingMathilda: "other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

No pointless human interest stories, no teasing you with something interesting sounding for the entire duration of the show only to spend 30 seconds on it at the last moment, fairly concise and insightful commentary on the day's events... you're right, it's definitely not a news program.

Bloody William: TDS doesn't try to be a news show. It doesn't call itself a news show.

What it is is an excellent companion to someone who already gets their news from reliable (i.e. written) sources.

Bloody William: I can forgive him for being preachy because we're not talking about health care or economics, but because WE'RE TALKING ABOUT farkING TORTURE.

It's true, I just wish he'd allow people to dig their own graves more. I loved the Cramer interview, it was entertaining. But really no moreso than the thrill of watching a public flogging, or the fun of seeing someone articulate your own frustrations to someone famous. I enjoy a good back-and-forth more, though.

To me, the guest kept trying to make a point that if we got a guy who we think knows something then it is ok to use "enhanced techniques".

I say it's wrong. Period.

I think that was Jon Stewarts point. It doesn't matter if we think we know something. It's wrong to justify a technique that we in the past have condoned.

I'm a mostly liberal Daily Show supporter/watcher/fan and I support waterboarding. -shrug-

/divides by zero in his spare time

I have no idea why anybody like that would ever go on the Daily Show, except for the chance to say, "Hey look at me, I was on the Daily Show." Nobody who has been in that chair to defend their words or actions has ever left looking good from it.

Ha, John Stewart thinks he's a real reporter. I like the show and all, but when he starts getting all "holier than thou" when his job is a farking joke (it's a COMEDY SHOW), it's really annoying.

Code_Archeologist: I have no idea why anybody like that would ever go on the Daily Show, except for the chance to say, "Hey look at me, I was on the Daily Show." Nobody who has been in that chair to defend their words or actions has ever left looking good from it.

NEVER underestimate the powers of conservative delusion.

WaltzingMathilda: "other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

In some ways, I feel like that is a bit of a cop-out on their part. Simply because of what they call themselves, they can therefore immediately forgive any of their own transgressions. Inaccuracies, factual errors, biases... all explained away by asserting they're not a news show. Don't get me wrong - I understand their point, but given the situation with the programs that DO call themselves news, they should be wary of claiming that semantics and which station airs them are enough to absolve them of any journalistic responsibility. That being said: so far, they've been outstanding.

Code_Archeologist: I have no idea why anybody like that would ever go on the Daily Show, except for the chance to say, "Hey look at me, I was on the Daily Show." Nobody who has been in that chair to defend their words or actions has ever left looking good from it.

iirc, at the end of the show he mentions that he's been on just about every national news show on television. sounds like an attention whore pundit that finally struck gold and is milking it for all that its worth.

Code_Archeologist: I have no idea why anybody like that would ever go on the Daily Show, except for the chance to say, "Hey look at me, I was on the Daily Show." Nobody who has been in that chair to defend their words or actions has ever left looking good from it.

It's one of the few ways to cut through the chatter and be heard if you do it right. Most talking head shows are long on words and very short on content.

Still, I don't think it's bright to deal with a hostile audience and host with the hope someone might pay attention -- especially when the host does his homework and doesn't have to pretend to be inane to massage some non-bias myth we've fostered in journalism.

The goal should be objectivity anyway. Stewart's biased, be he is objective.

Epiphany: Ha, John Stewart thinks he's a real reporter. I like the show and all, but when he starts getting all "holier than thou" when his job is a farking joke (it's a COMEDY SHOW), it's really annoying.

Are you ONLY good at the career you've chosen? John Stewart would probably have made an outstanding journalist - had he chosen to be one. But he instead elected to become a comedian. That doesn't prevent him from being a good journalist. Marky-Mark may have been a popular rap artist, but that didn't prevent him from being a good actor.

vygramul: WaltzingMathilda: "other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

In some ways, I feel like that is a bit of a cop-out on their part. Simply because of what they call themselves, they can therefore immediately forgive any of their own transgressions. Inaccuracies, factual errors, biases... all explained away by asserting they're not a news show. Don't get me wrong - I understand their point, but given the situation with the programs that DO call themselves news, they should be wary of claiming that semantics and which station airs them are enough to absolve them of any journalistic responsibility. That being said: so far, they've been outstanding.

but ... that's like saying weekend update is a news show and should be held to journalistic standards. they read a bit of news and then make fun of it. period.

Epiphany: Ha, John Stewart thinks he's a real reporter. I like the show and all, but when he starts getting all "holier than thou" when his job is a farking joke (it's a COMEDY SHOW), it's really annoying.

How does being on a comedy show strip away your humanity? I had this argument after the Cramer interview. A good friend of mine came at me with "Oh God Jon Stewart abusing his platform and acting like he is some arbiter of justice blah blah he has no right to be critical of Cramer blah blah"
There's nothing annoying about it, and there isn't anything funny about it. It's two adults having a conversation and if it seems like Stewart is trying to put egg or pie or what have you on the faces of losers like Cramer or May it is because they are defending their own ludicrous actions or words. I'm holier than thou is the thou is someone who currently excuses torture with the "24" excuse. Or, maybe not holier, maybe logicker than thou. It's still a comedy show if the guest is one big joke.

Jon Stewart is guilty of using enhanced interviewing techniques.

No matter the issue, that douchebag, Cliff May, makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit. He's intelligent, sane, and rational. AND, always wrong.

For those who the linky is blocked due to work (new window)

Dr.Knockboots: I'm a mostly liberal Daily Show supporter/watcher/fan and I support waterboarding. -shrug-

/divides by zero in his spare time

A means of information gathering that creates false information, ie: they'll say whatever you want to hear whether it's true or not. Yeah that's real smart. Let's try living in this century, m'kay?

Dr.Knockboots: I'm a mostly liberal Daily Show supporter/watcher/fan and I support waterboarding. -shrug-

/divides by zero in his spare time

you support torture? that's interesting.

Eh, Stewart is getting preachy.

There is nothing right about torture, period. The fact that we are even HAVING this conversation in the 21st Century is DISGUSTING!!!!

/Cheney is laughing

So Truman was an insane war criminal?

The Daily Show is probably the most important real news show when it comes to reporter about the media in this country. Just because he does it with humor doesn't mean its not real and important.

NYMoogle: Epiphany: Ha, John Stewart thinks he's a real reporter. I like the show and all, but when he starts getting all "holier than thou" when his job is a farking joke (it's a COMEDY SHOW), it's really annoying.

How does being on a comedy show strip away your humanity? I had this argument after the Cramer interview. A good friend of mine came at me with "Oh God Jon Stewart abusing his platform and acting like he is some arbiter of justice blah blah he has no right to be critical of Cramer blah blah"
There's nothing annoying about it, and there isn't anything funny about it. It's two adults having a conversation and if it seems like Stewart is trying to put egg or pie or what have you on the faces of losers like Cramer or May it is because they are defending their own ludicrous actions or words. I'm holier than thou is the thou is someone who currently excuses torture with the "24" excuse. Or, maybe not holier, maybe logicker than thou. It's still a comedy show if the guest is one big joke.

Definitely "less of a sniveling waste of human life than thou."

JDIAH GDizzleCKY: So Truman was an insane war criminal?

Everyone in a war is temporarily insane.

WaltzingMathilda: DamnYankees: And every other news show calls it "enhanced interrogation".

"other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

Calling TDS a "news show" would be an insult. It's far more informative.

vygramul: Are you ONLY good at the career you've chosen? John Stewart would probably have made an outstanding journalist - had he chosen to be one. But he instead elected to become a comedian. That doesn't prevent him from being a good journalist. Marky-Mark may have been a popular rap artist, but that didn't prevent him from being a good actor.

Um....point taken, but I think you're 0-2 there.

Code_Archeologist: I have no idea why anybody like that would ever go on the Daily Show, except for the chance to say, "Hey look at me, I was on the Daily Show." Nobody who has been in that chair to defend their words or actions has ever left looking good from it.

I don't thin May came off as looking bad at all. I saw two people who disagreed on the finer points of a very complex arguement and made their case. I would say that the pro enhanced interrogation and anti-torture crowds will see their guy as 'winning' that discussion.

Pet peeve time.

It's Jon, not John. I realize that people on message boards (esp. Fark) just type to see their own words and troll, but Jon has been on Fark links forever.

Go to Google before you hit post. Go to a dictionary before you hit post. Go to Wikipedia before you hit post. I know it would take a few extra minutes to make sure your post is correct, but it gets tiresome after time. Maybe you'll learn something new when you're searching.

Learn his name.

Poopspasm: Um....point taken, but I think you're 0-2 there.

He's good in some things. I liked him in The Departed and Boogie Nights. I have high hopes for him in The Lovely Bones.

WaltzingMathilda: DamnYankees: And every other news show calls it "enhanced interrogation".

"other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

Yeah, it really is a news show. The variation is that where all the other news shows spice up news with shock, paranoia and sensationalism, TDS does it with jokes. That is it in a nutshell.

I really, really, really like the Daily Show.

Jon Stewart has become really, really preachy. It is now very distracting to me.

alonzinator: Code_Archeologist: I have no idea why anybody like that would ever go on the Daily Show, except for the chance to say, "Hey look at me, I was on the Daily Show." Nobody who has been in that chair to defend their words or actions has ever left looking good from it.

I don't thin May came off as looking bad at all. I saw two people who disagreed on the finer points of a very complex arguement and made their case. I would say that the pro enhanced interrogation and anti-torture crowds will see their guy as 'winning' that discussion.

True, but I think the discussion hinged on this distinction:

Not soldiers so Geneva doesn't apply, but they're not regular criminals because they're al Qaeda? So he draws a 3rd line of what is acceptable.

That is ridiculous. If we agree that Geneva doesn't apply, they are civilian criminals. You don't get to draw a special 3rd line for a group of people you can't define with clear bounds.

DamnYankees: He's good in some things. I liked him in The Departed and Boogie Nights. I have high hopes for him in The Lovely Bones.

I thought he was pretty decent in We Own the Knight, also.

WaltzingMathilda: vygramul: WaltzingMathilda: "other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

In some ways, I feel like that is a bit of a cop-out on their part. Simply because of what they call themselves, they can therefore immediately forgive any of their own transgressions. Inaccuracies, factual errors, biases... all explained away by asserting they're not a news show. Don't get me wrong - I understand their point, but given the situation with the programs that DO call themselves news, they should be wary of claiming that semantics and which station airs them are enough to absolve them of any journalistic responsibility. That being said: so far, they've been outstanding.

but ... that's like saying weekend update is a news show and should be held to journalistic standards. they read a bit of news and then make fun of it. period.

It's THAT part to which both have some amount of responsibility.

For example: The Turner Diaries are clearly a work of fiction. But it's the world-view it presents as FACTS within which the *FICTIONAL* story takes place that makes it so offensive.

Weekend Update, for example, takes a fact and then makes a joke by distorting the fact. But the base fact is still important. Despite strong legal protections of satire, the facts you use about someone to set up the joke can still get you into trouble. (Larry Flynt lost a Supreme Court case over a cartoon depiction of Kathy Keeton.)

gshepnyc: WaltzingMathilda: DamnYankees: And every other news show calls it "enhanced interrogation".

"other" suggests that TDS is a news show, which it is not.

Yeah, it really is a news show. The variation is that where all the other news shows spice up news with shock, paranoia and sensationalism, TDS does it with jokes. That is it in a nutshell.

Yeah, well then, Weekend Update is a news show.

I love it when people have 100% subscribed to the Drew Curtis "all news is sensationalism, shock and paranoia" angle. Hey, it helps sell books.

alonzinator: I don't thin May came off as looking bad at all. I saw two people who disagreed on the finer points of a very complex arguement and made their case. I would say that the pro enhanced interrogation and anti-torture crowds will see their guy as 'winning' that discussion.

True, but I think that's because Stewart missed making some key arguments. Mainly this - the legality of torture is not dependent on its efficacy. Merely saying "we need to do it to get results" is not a defense of anything. Under this rule we could simply murder someone's child to get them to talk. There's no boundary line.

Also, Stewart didn't hammer May on the point that the more of a "bad guy" you are, the worse we're allowed to treat you. What? That's not how human rights works.

vygramul: Weekend Update, for example, takes a fact and then makes a joke by distorting the fact. But the base fact is still important. Despite strong legal protections of satire, the facts you use about someone to set up the joke can still get you into trouble. (Larry Flynt lost a Supreme Court case over a cartoon depiction of Kathy Keeton.)


The fact that defamation laws apply does not make it "news" or "journalism." I am subject to defamation laws too and I'm no Walter Cronkite.

Poopspasm: vygramul: Are you ONLY good at the career you've chosen? John Stewart would probably have made an outstanding journalist - had he chosen to be one. But he instead elected to become a comedian. That doesn't prevent him from being a good journalist. Marky-Mark may have been a popular rap artist, but that didn't prevent him from being a good actor.

Um....point taken, but I think you're 0-2 there.

Note I said POPULAR, not GOOD, rap artist. I do admit I enjoy his movies, so I went with GOOD actor. I suppose I should have said popular for both, since that's an objective measure that's easily defended.

alonzinator: I don't thin May came off as looking bad at all. I saw two people who disagreed on the finer points of a very complex arguement and made their case. I would say that the pro enhanced interrogation and anti-torture crowds will see their guy as 'winning' that discussion.

Agreed. For a pretty indefensible position, I thought May handled himself about as well as possible... the fact that he knew what to expect coming in seemed to help as he had a good sense for the absurd during it.

If there is one issue I don't mind Jon getting preachy on, it is the issue of torture. Seriously, we are debating TORTURE damn it!
WTF is wrong with us?


/feels sick

DamnYankees: the legality of torture is not dependent on its efficacy.

damn straight

IXI Jim IXI: DamnYankees: He's good in some things. I liked him in The Departed and Boogie Nights. I have high hopes for him in The Lovely Bones.

I thought he was pretty decent in We Own the Knight, also.

I never saw that Shama..lawmrea..bala...whatever his name is movie about the killer plants. Was Wahlberg any good in that?

DamnYankees: Also, Stewart didn't hammer May on the point that the more of a "bad guy" you are, the worse we're allowed to treat you. What? That's not how human rights works.

Yes, I thought this was a strange point made by Mr. May.

Because they are high level operatives of a "bad guy" group then it's ok.