Right...

New House Speaker Please, this one is broken.

I get it.

Some members of Congress are idiots and that's how BushCo was able to break laws left and right without any interference. Not from Congress, not from the MSM, not from anyone, anywhere, at any time...

Considering Congressmen don't have the power to arrest, and the DOJ was on board with the whole thing, I'm not sure what she could have done. Other than make a big media stink about it.

hillbillypharmacist: Other than make a big media stink about it.

Like she's doing now, six years later?

hillbillypharmacist: I'm not sure what she could have done. Other than make a big media stink about it.

That would certainly have been a better course of action.

sepuku2: Like she's doing now, six years later?

Oh, she's doing all this? I thought it was Obama doing it to distract Americans from his trainwreck of a Presidency.

I might have my talking points mixed up, though.

She's got to go, and so do any other torture-enablers.

Clearly, her complicity exonerates anyone else involved. Two wrongs and all that.

hillbillypharmacist: I might have my talking points mixed up, though.

I didn't know you used talking points. I thought you were like me and blurted out whatever came to mind.Maybe I should go rethink my strategy.

Nancy, you are a "lessron". That's a "moron" with less brains.

Flab: That would certainly have been a better course of action.

It would have been morally upright, but political suicide.

Which means highly unlikely for anyone but Feingold and RON PAUL!

If she committed a crime, go after her.

Let the DoJ loose on all of these jerks and jail the lot of them. Anybody who authorized waterboarding should be thrown in jail. End of story.

hillbillypharmacist: Considering Congressmen don't have the power to arrest, and the DOJ was on board with the whole thing, I'm not sure what she could have done. Other than make a big media stink about it.

Actually Congress does have the power to arrest. The Capitol Police are an arm of the Legislative branch, not the Executive. She could have started hauling Bush officials down to the Capitol Building and started holding public impeachment hearings. They even have the power to arrest people who refuse to appear (contempt of congress)... it has been a while since they have used this power, choosing instead for the past 4-5 decades to allow the Department of Justice to carry out this responsibility.

Code_Archeologist: She could have started hauling Bush officials down to the Capitol Building and started holding public impeachment hearings.

Ha ha ha ha

It's been awhile since we had a good constitutional crisis. That would have been fun to see.

hillbillypharmacist: It's been awhile since we had a good constitutional crisis. That would have been fun to see.

How would that have been a constitutional crisis?

hillbillypharmacist: political suicide.

Probably. However, is she had two brain-cells, she would have connected the dots and seen through the weasels words, instead of just thinking "hopefully when the fit hits the shan, I'll be able to say "I wasn't aware that this is what they meant'" and come out against it right away.

I've said it before, it amazes me that the only person who seemed to realize there was a problem with the whole thing was John Ashcroft.

Flab: I've said it before, it amazes me that the only person who seemed to realize there was a problem with the whole thing was John Ashcroft.

Sadly untrue. FBI agents walked out of interrogations. One soldier (IIRC) killed herself over this.

BAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!


Now the GOP is latching on to the Dems in hopes that they can suck them down in their wake! This is just too good.

coco ebert: She's got to go, and so do any other torture-enablers.

Agreed. Anyone involved in this ordeal should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of political affiliation.

DamnYankees: Sadly untrue. FBI agents walked out of interrogations. One soldier (IIRC) killed herself over this.

I Should have been more specific. I meant among the higher-ups OKing the use of torture, not the people who had to perform it.

sepuku2: hillbillypharmacist: Other than make a big media stink about it.

Like she's doing now, six years later?

This. Every single Dem who's making a stink about this today knew all about both wiretapping and waterboarding and was fine with it until the public found out. Once they realized they could get some political mileage out of it they, as usual, showed all the spine of a jellyfish.

Say what you will about whether the US should ever have done this. But I have more respect for those who approved and are still willing to go on record as such than I do for those who approved and then changed their tune instantly when they got discovered.

MrKraclenutz: Agreed. Anyone involved in this ordeal should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of political affiliation.

I certainly think she should be held politically liable, but I am doubtful that she has any legal/criminal culpability. I am also doubtful that Yoo, Bybee or any other attorneys who authored legal justifications/opinions bear any criminal culpability.

You Can't Fix Stupid: Every single Dem who's making a stink about this today knew all about both wiretapping and waterboarding and was fine with it until the public found out.

Citation needed.

You Can't Fix Stupid: Say what you will about whether the US should ever have done this. But I have more respect for those who approved and are still willing to go on record as such than I do for those who approved and then changed their tune instantly when they got discovered.

How about people who have been clamoring for actions for years? Like Olbermann or Greenwald or Andrew Sullivan? You don't have to like someone to respect their integrity.

Flab: I've said it before, it amazes me that the only person who seemed to realize there was a problem with the whole thing was John Ashcroft.

It is somewhat ironic, as back in '02 I thought I had him pegged as the blackest hat in the whole administration. A lot of the stuff that rolled out post-9/11 was too fast out of the gate to have not been in the works (or at least committed to paper) prior to the attack. It's funny that now he comes off as the most rational and grounded of the lot.

You Can't Fix Stupid: Say what you will about whether the US should ever have done this. But I have more respect for those who approved and are still willing to go on record as such than I do for those who approved and then changed their tune instantly when they got discovered.

I have no respect for any of them.

Occam's Chainsaw: Flab: I've said it before, it amazes me that the only person who seemed to realize there was a problem with the whole thing was John Ashcroft.

It is somewhat ironic, as back in '02 I thought I had him pegged as the blackest hat in the whole administration. A lot of the stuff that rolled out post-9/11 was too fast out of the gate to have not been in the works (or at least committed to paper) prior to the attack. It's funny that now he comes off as the most rational and grounded of the lot.

Rational? I don't know. But in retrospect he seems to be the one most sincere about his religious beliefs. Yeah, he's a nut and a prude, but maybe he took the mercy part of it seriously after all.

DamnYankees: How would that have been a constitutional crisis?

Maybe it wouldn't be a constitutional crisis, technically.

More accurately, it would be a ball-washing disaster with riots and violence as an almost certain response.

hillbillypharmacist: More accurately, it would be a ball-washing disaster with riots and violence as an almost certain response.

Violence because Pelosi would have called for a hearing? Huh?

DamnYankees: hillbillypharmacist: It's been awhile since we had a good constitutional crisis. That would have been fun to see.

How would that have been a constitutional crisis?

well... anytime one branch of government starts taking another branch of government to task it becomes a Constitutional crisis, because both branches always believe that the Constitution allows them to do what they are doing.

DamnYankees: Rational? I don't know. But in retrospect he seems to be the one most sincere about his religious beliefs. Yeah, he's a nut and a prude, but maybe he took the mercy part of it seriously after all.

Yeah, I suppose rational is a stretch. Convicted might be a better term. Everyone else saw unchecked power and wealth by way of dubious morality and said, "Sure, why not?"

DamnYankees: Like Olbermann or Greenwald or Andrew Sullivan?

I seem to recall Sullivan changing his tune a few times on interrogations and such. Regardless, these media folks aren't in the same boat -- they didn't know about it before it become public.

Not a single politician went on record against wiretapping or harsh interrogation until after the media found out and started screaming about it.

DamnYankees: Like Olbermann

Olbermann's comments concerning waterboarding Hannity - even if they were made in jest - take him out of the group with integrity and into the partisan douchebag group.

Code_Archeologist: well... anytime one branch of government starts taking another branch of government to task it becomes a Constitutional crisis, because both branches always believe that the Constitution allows them to do what they are doing.

That's not what a constitutional crisis means.

You Can't Fix Stupid: I seem to recall Sullivan changing his tune a few times on interrogations and such. Regardless, these media folks aren't in the same boat -- they didn't know about it before it become public.

Not sure about that. He was for the war at the beginning, but I don't he has ever supported torture.

Flab: DamnYankees: Like Olbermann

Olbermann's comments concerning waterboarding Hannity - even if they were made in jest - take him out of the group with integrity and into the partisan douchebag group.

I made that comment in the other thread - I didn't like what Olbermann did. But he has been consistent in his opposition to this stuff.

DamnYankees: Violence because Pelosi would have called for a hearing? Huh?

I think it's the forcible arrest of Bush admin officials, especially any higher up ones, that would be the problem.

You Can't Fix Stupid: Say what you will about whether the US should ever have done this. But I have more respect for those who approved and are still willing to go on record as such than I do for those who approved and then changed their tune instantly when they got discovered.

The Congress was never given the opportunity to approve of the use of torture. A select few in the leadership were simply informed that it was happening and told that they could not talk about because of national security.

hillbillypharmacist: DamnYankees: Violence because Pelosi would have called for a hearing? Huh?

I think it's the forcible arrest of Bush admin officials, especially any higher up ones, that would be the problem.

Well you wouldn't need to arrest them like that. Clinton wasn't 'arrested' when he was tried for perjury. You just do the hearings. The sitting president isn't exactly a flight risk.

Flab: Olbermann's comments concerning waterboarding Hannity - even if they were made in jest - take him out of the group with integrity and into the partisan douchebag group.

Oh bullshiat. I don't watch Olbermann, I don't care about Olbermann, but saying "If you really do what you said you'll volunteer to do, I'll pay money to charity based upon how long you last," doesn't lose him one iota of integrity. Not that he has that much to lose.

DamnYankees: Well you wouldn't need to arrest them like that.

Read the original post. It specifically mentioned arrest, use of the Capitol Police, and marching Bush officials in.

Code_Archeologist: DamnYankees: hillbillypharmacist: It's been awhile since we had a good constitutional crisis. That would have been fun to see.

How would that have been a constitutional crisis?

well... anytime one branch of government starts taking another branch of government to task it becomes a Constitutional crisis, because both branches always believe that the Constitution allows them to do what they are doing.

I think you are setting the bar a tad low on "Constitutional crisis." Or at least on the notion that Congressional hearings into matters of the executive branch are "taking over." Oversight hearings are rather routine. Most of them mundane, and not all get to really good stuff like torture, arms for hostages, etc.

She was briefed on it but now is claiming she didn't know anything about it.

She's either a liar or a retard... possibly both. Either way, she looks pretty stupid right about now.

She'll still get re-elected, though. The constituents who voted her into office aren't much sharper than she is. The same goes for Murtha, RonPaul, Kucinich, et al.

kronicfeld: DamnYankees: Well you wouldn't need to arrest them like that.

Read the original post. It specifically mentioned arrest, use of the Capitol Police, and marching Bush officials in.

Yeah - but that was his silly hypo. I'm saying there's no reason that would happen.

DamnYankees: Well you wouldn't need to arrest them like that.

I'm referring to this scenario:
She could have started hauling Bush officials down to the Capitol Building and started holding public impeachment hearings.

Considering how many times Rove hasn't shown to his hearings, I think it'd be necessary to physically arrest some people to do such a thing.

kronicfeld: Oh bullshiat.

I know Olbermann was just calling out Hannity's bluff, but on the infintesimal chance that Hannity decided to follow through with his comment, I can't accept it.

Code_Archeologist: The Congress was never given the opportunity to approve of the use of torture. A select few in the leadership were simply informed that it was happening and told that they could not talk about because of national security.

Riiiight. And they were thus totally unable to leak any info about it or complain or anything.

Flab: I know Olbermann was just calling out Hannity's bluff, but on the infintesimal chance that Hannity decided to follow through with his comment, I can't accept it.

Why? Why should we be against people that WANT to be tortured, to see what it's like? That just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Lando Lincoln: Why? Why should we be against people that WANT to be tortured, to see what it's like? That just doesn't make a lot of sense.

If Hannity wants a little S&M on the side, that's his prerogative and none of my business. But I'm against Olbermann edging him by saying "Come on! You can do it! Don't be a pussy! What's the problem Sean? Are you yellow?"

So torture is OK because it works, although it's not torture because we call it something else.

But wait! Look over there! Something's Pelosi's fault! Something something Pelosi! She knew something! Pelosi's dumb!