credit card practices that Summers recently blamed for coaxing consumers "into paying extraordinarily high rates that they wouldn't have paid if they knew what they were getting themselves into."

Consumers didn't know what they were doing and that is obviously someone else's fault.

Makes sense to me.

Last One Left: credit card practices that Summers recently blamed for coaxing consumers "into paying extraordinarily high rates that they wouldn't have paid if they knew what they were getting themselves into."

Consumers didn't know what they were doing and that is obviously someone else's fault.

Makes sense to me.

If they were misled into doing it, then yes.

tchamber: If they were misled into doing it, then yes.

That requires proof of lying, not merely "coaxing". In that case, it'd probably be fraud, I'd think.

I think this is about fees and other terms (like the weird ways of quoting rates) that consumers didn't get. This is what I get from the article.

Last One Left: Consumers didn't know what they were doing and that is obviously someone else's fault.

Makes sense to me.

Lenders doing everything they can possibly get away with to realize a profit, especially off of at-risk populations like teens and the elderly, and it's perfectly acceptable so long as they signed five pages of microscopic CYA boilerplate?

Makes sense to me.

Obama prepares to bring the pain to credit card companies

Lets examine this statement for a moment with the help of the movie The Princess Bride.

Prince Humperdinck: First things first, to the death.
Westley: No. To the pain.
Prince Humperdinck: I don't think I'm quite familiar with that phrase.
Westley: I'll explain and I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand, you warthog faced buffoon.
Prince Humperdinck: That may be the first time in my life a man has dared insult me.
Westley: It won't be the last. To the pain means the first thing you will lose will be your feet below the ankles. Then your hands at the wrists. Next your nose.
Prince Humperdinck: And then my tongue I suppose, I killed you too quickly the last time. A mistake I don't mean to duplicate tonight.
Westley: I wasn't finished. The next thing you will lose will be your left eye followed by your right.
Prince Humperdinck: And then my ears, I understand let's get on with it.
Westley: WRONG. Your ears you keep and I'll tell you why. So that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish. Every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God! What is that thing," will echo in your perfect ears. That is what to the pain means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever.
Prince Humperdinck: I think your bluffing.
Westley: It's possible, Pig, I might be bluffing. It's conceivable, you miserable, vomitous mass, that I'm only lying here because I lack the strength to stand. But, then again... perhaps I have the strength after all.
[slowly rises and points sword directly at the prince]
Westley: DROP... YOUR... SWORD!
[mouth hanging open, drops sword to floor]

So, in this classic example, "the pain" would really suck. In the case of the credit card companies...

Works for me ;)

Occam's Chainsaw: Lenders doing everything they can possibly get away with to realize a profit, especially off of at-risk populations like teens and the elderly, and it's perfectly acceptable so long as they signed five pages of microscopic CYA boilerplate?

Sure. If you don't understand something, either educate yourself or don't get involved. There are plenty of resources out there. If you're too lazy for that, there's always that rule of thumb: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

A parent or guardian should be required to sign off on a credit card application for a teen as with any contract, but otherwise the above applies.

Yes, your rate going to 26.6% because you're a day late on your payment is really fair.

Also disclosing this amid three pages of microprint is fair as well.

Last One Left: If you don't understand something, either educate yourself or don't get involved.

Shouldn't that apply to commenting on topics in threads?

Occam's Chainsaw: Lenders doing everything they can possibly get away with to realize a profit,

How is that working out for them?

Pocket Ninja: Shouldn't that apply to commenting on topics in threads?

Care to point out where I'm wrong or misinformed?

lexshine: Yes, your rate going to 26.6% because you're a day late on your payment is really fair.

Also disclosing this amid three pages of microprint is fair as well.

We were never late on any credit card but our rate jumped from 9.9% to 29.99% because of our mortgage troubles. We've never paid any credit card or car payment late but the mortgage trouble made the rate jump. Just on the Chase card the American Express stayed the same.

So let me get this straight.

You're totally old enough to get blind stinking drunk and hook up with some douchebag you met fifteen minutes earlier, but when it comes to credit cards you're still a fawn lost in the woods and mommy and daddy will have to hold your hand.

Got it.

Gwendolyn: lexshine: Yes, your rate going to 26.6% because you're a day late on your payment is really fair.

Also disclosing this amid three pages of microprint is fair as well.

We were never late on any credit card but our rate jumped from 9.9% to 29.99% because of our mortgage troubles. We've never paid any credit card or car payment late but the mortgage trouble made the rate jump. Just on the Chase card the American Express stayed the same.

A couple of my friends have had things like that happen. What started out in both cases as difficulty making a couple of mortgage payments on time cascaded into a credit disaster for them which ended in bankruptcy. I think that's a little extreme ...

Last One Left: Care to point out where I'm wrong or misinformed?

Your argument is presuming a whole lot, mainly ignorance on the part of the cardholder. It's ignoring the reality of the situation, which is that card companies are altering the terms on even cardholders who have used their credit with complete responsibility. And they're altering those terms retroactively, so that debt accumulated under one set of rules becomes subject to another. Furthermore, by slashing credit lines by fifty percent or more with no warning, and often with no justification, they are negatively impacting the credit scores of their customers, starting a process that will only lead to an additional credit crunch and financial hardship. It's completely unreasonable for these companies to expect customers to play by a single set of unalterable rules, and then also maintain for themselves the ability to completely change the playing field on a whim. I hope that you're capable of seeing that.

Gulper Eel: So let me get this straight.

You're totally old enough to get blind stinking drunk and hook up with some douchebag you met fifteen minutes earlier, but when it comes to credit cards you're still a fawn lost in the woods and mommy and daddy will have to hold your hand.

Got it.

Think about it. When was the last time you saw that everybody who had commented in a Fark thread had read all of the previous comments? The fine print in a credit application is a tad less riveting, even though it has much more personal impact ;)

Pocket Ninja: Your argument is presuming a whole lot, mainly ignorance on the part of the cardholder. It's ignoring the reality of the situation, which is that card companies are altering the terms on even cardholders who have used their credit with complete responsibility. And they're altering those terms retroactively, so that debt accumulated under one set of rules becomes subject to another. [snipped]

I'm well aware they do that and much more. They do that here too, but to a lesser extent. That is why I chose not to get one. I actually read through most of the legalese of the documents I received and chose not to apply.

The reason they can do stuff like this is because many consumers are dependent on plastic and will do anything to get themselves one.

SpinStopper: The fine print in a credit application is a tad less riveting, even though it has much more personal impact

My remark is directed toward the part of the legislation that calls for parental co-signing. The rest of the bill looks like something I can deal with, but when it comes to money either you're an adult at 18 or you're not.

Last One Left: That is why I chose not to get one.

Oh, OK. Sorry. I didn't realize you were one of the paragons of humanity that everyone should aspire to become, a being of pure rationality who dismisses even responsible and appropriate credit as an unnecessary burden of an enlightened life. I know that to even associate with the petty sort of rabble who have not chosen your transcendental path must be very trying and painful for you, and our mewling expectations of a such petty and unreasonable trivialities such as "rules" and "fairness" must appear so infantile and uninformed. Thank you for your indulgence. I'll just worship you quietly from afar, if that's all right.

Pocket Ninja: Last One Left: That is why I chose not to get one.

Oh, OK. Sorry. I didn't realize you were one of the paragons of humanity that everyone should aspire to become, a being of pure rationality who dismisses even responsible and appropriate credit as an unnecessary burden of an enlightened life. I know that to even associate with the petty sort of rabble who have not chosen your transcendental path must be very trying and painful for you, and our mewling expectations of a such petty and unreasonable trivialities such as "rules" and "fairness" must appear so infantile and uninformed. Thank you for your indulgence. I'll just worship you quietly from afar, if that's all right.

You forgot "rugged individualist" and "Randian self-determination".

/Eat-the-young capitalism is unsustainable.

Last One Left: The reason they can do stuff like this is because many consumers are dependent on plastic and will do anything to get themselves one.

This is actually true, but is not endemic, and in no way condones the outright usury committed by the credit card companies. If you really want to know why this is a problem, listen to this, and educate yourself. (^)

I am interested to see how this pans out.


I pay all my bills on time, I got my yearly statement from one of my CC companies, there was like $53 in finance charges that had accrued over a year, although I never carried a balance.


I was too busy to follow up on it.


Anyone know how they do this sneaky shiat?

Ok...hang on a second. I'm watching CNN and this story comes on. They sampled letters to the Fed regarding the predatory practices...One letter states that she is paying $900 per month in finance charges.

Now what the fark kind of balance do you have to run up to get hit with a $900 per month finance charge?

Gee, I wonder what the Vice-Prez has to say about all of this.

FTA: Michael Busch, 28, says he and his wife, Mindy, pay all their bills on time and have steadily chipped away at their $6,000 in credit card debt. Even so, four issuers recently raised the couple's credit card rates, to as high as 28%.

The Busches, who recently found out they're having a baby, say the rate increases have crimped their already frugal lifestyle.

"We have no disposable income as it is, so we thought, 'Now we really have to budget,' " says Michael Busch, a college student who lives in Englewood, Colo. "We're going to have to hit the super sales at (the supermarket). We're going to have to buy frozen instead of fresh food."

Here's a clue. If you can't feed them, don't breed them.

eddyatwork: . "We're going to have to hit the super sales at (the supermarket). We're going to have to buy frozen instead of fresh food."

Here's a clue. If you can't feed them, don't breed them.

If his idea of "budgeting" is frozen vs. fresh, he's probably not as bad off as he thinks. Besides, frozen food actually has more nutrients.

Anyway, Mr. Dawg and I are a lovely statistic of this whole mess, and the two of us and our baby are doing quite well. Babies don't necessarily have to be as expensive as some people think. Of course, we're damned lucky to have family/friends to lend us a hand, and skills to get us by. A lot of folks aren't that fortunate.

Last One Left: Occam's Chainsaw: Lenders doing everything they can possibly get away with to realize a profit, especially off of at-risk populations like teens and the elderly, and it's perfectly acceptable so long as they signed five pages of microscopic CYA boilerplate?

Sure. If you don't understand something, either educate yourself or don't get involved. There are plenty of resources out there. If you're too lazy for that, there's always that rule of thumb: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

A parent or guardian should be required to sign off on a credit card application for a teen as with any contract, but otherwise the above applies.

I'm glad you have NOTHING to do with this regulation.

T. Dawg: Besides, frozen food vegetables actually have more nutrients.

FTFY

My husband and I opened a credit card that had a decent interest rate (7%) years ago. Made all payments on time, had no problems. Sometimes we kept a balance on there, but we always at least made payments, and we were happy. La-dee-dee-dah-dah-dee....

Until 3 months ago, when we got a 'friendly' note from the company, saying that as of a week previously, they had increased our rate to 29%, just for the reason that they hadn't increased it previously and, well, they wanted to.

So, we paid it off and closed the account. We were good customers, but that's NOT good customer service.

//It's funny to me how the people who pay their bills are being punished--wouldn't you want to keep people who pay on time?

It's a Sunshine Day!: It's funny to me how the people who pay their bills are being punished--wouldn't you want to keep people who pay on time?

No, there's no money to be made in that situation. CC companies want you to carry a balance and make minimum payments.

...alas, my use of the <b> tag did not come to an end! Oops.

It's a Sunshine Day!: So, we paid it off and closed the account. We were good customers, but that's NOT good customer service.

//It's funny to me how the people who pay their bills are being punished--wouldn't you want to keep people who pay on time?

You're applying logic to the finance industry. Stop that ;)

When credit card companies start using techniques that would make a hardened mafia loanshark say "wow, that's a bit much" maybe it is time to start coming down hard on the worst offenders.

If a card company suddenly wants to say "Your agreement says we can increase your interest rate, so now it's 30% instead of 6%" that's their perogative and you can go elsewhere. If they say "Now it's 30% retroactive to the day you got the card" that's time for total thermonuclear war on Delaware.

I had six active credit cards at one point. Now I have one. It's sucked several light-years of dick to repair the mistakes I made, but I'm glad I did it.

Dancin_In_Anson: Now what the fark kind of balance do you have to run up to get hit with a $900 per month finance charge?

30 bucks...

It's a Sunshine Day!: It's funny to me how the people who pay their bills are being punished--wouldn't you want to keep people who pay on time?

No. They prefer people who will eventually pay, but only after they move into crazy interest territory AND rack up tons of penalty fees. You can't declare bankruptcy on it anymore, after all.

That's the thing - "good" customers in the traditional "pay it off all the time, always make payments" aren't sexy anymore. If you pay your bill every month in full, the bank isn't making money off you in the form of interest, and where's the fun in that for them?

/feh

Pocket Ninja: Last One Left: That is why I chose not to get one.

Oh, OK. Sorry. I didn't realize you were one of the paragons of humanity that everyone should aspire to become, a being of pure rationality who dismisses even responsible and appropriate credit as an unnecessary burden of an enlightened life. I know that to even associate with the petty sort of rabble who have not chosen your transcendental path must be very trying and painful for you, and our mewling expectations of a such petty and unreasonable trivialities such as "rules" and "fairness" must appear so infantile and uninformed. Thank you for your indulgence. I'll just worship you quietly from afar, if that's all right.

I woke up this morning wondering who I was going to worship. Now I'm torn.

Phil Herup: I am interested to see how this pans out.


I pay all my bills on time, I got my yearly statement from one of my CC companies, there was like $53 in finance charges that had accrued over a year, although I never carried a balance.


I was too busy to follow up on it.


Anyone know how they do this sneaky shiat?

Did you use your CC to transfer funds or to pull cash out of an ATM?

Well, people could always use loan sharks. They seem nice.

I'm reading The Merchant of Venice right now, so I'm really getting a kick.... etc.

Aw jeeze. I just got a bill in the mail from Obama's office saying "you owe $2,000 for your neighbors mortgage".

Am I going to get another one for his credit card bill too?

I_C_Weener: Well, people could always use loan sharks. They seem nice.

People universally agree that loan sharks are bad. However, the scummiest loan shark would give his left nut to be able to run a credit-card-like business. Just because Visa doesn't send two dudes to break your thumbs doesn't mean they are less f*cked up then the lender who lacks the armies of lawyers, accountants, and paid off politicians.

There's a surprising number of cheerleaders for the credit card companies here.

Credit cards make vultures look like angels of mercy. Get one to secure hotel and plane reservations, always pay the thing off in total, and you'll be happy. Only carry a balance if you have to, i.e. an emergency.

I Said: Am I going to get another one for his credit card bill too?

Obama has already said that people who got themselves 50k into credit card debt buying a third TV and a second card are on their own. He's cracking down on shady rate-hiking and bullshiat fees.

Of course you already knew that, and you're just trying to slam on him for representing the electorate instead of slobbing Mastercard's knob

Dancin_In_Anson: Now what the fark kind of balance do you have to run up to get hit with a $900 per month finance charge?

"We reserve the right to change your rates at any time for any reason".

Bored Horde: There's a surprising number of cheerleaders for the credit card companies here.

Not sure where I stand, but I don't like interference with business if we can avoid it.

Ingaba: Phil Herup: I am interested to see how this pans out.


I pay all my bills on time, I got my yearly statement from one of my CC companies, there was like $53 in finance charges that had accrued over a year, although I never carried a balance.


I was too busy to follow up on it.


Anyone know how they do this sneaky shiat?




Did you use your CC to transfer funds or to pull cash out of an ATM?

No. I know they fark you really hard in teh arse for that shiat.

I tried to follow the rules, at least what I thought they were.

Bored Horde: Of course you already knew that, and you're just trying to slam on him for representing the electorate instead of slobbing Mastercard's knob

No, I was clearly being facetious. So you're clear, I also didn't actually receive a bill from Obama asking me to pay my neighbors mortgage. And the rest of my post, which you seem to have not seen, should indicate which side of this I'm on if the blatant sarcasm of the first part was too subtle.

Bored Horde: There's a surprising number of cheerleaders for the credit card companies here.

I think you're missing a lot of what's being said here.

Or.

There's a surprising number of cheerleaders for people that rack huge revolving balances.

Your pick.

Flab: "We reserve the right to change your rates at any time for any reason".


Have you ever borrowed money from your bank or credit union? Even on a secured (car, boat etc) basis?

I_C_Weener: Not sure where I stand, but I don't like interference with business if we can avoid it.



...would like a word with you. (Depending on your definition of "if we can avoid it".)