Meh, I don't think they will nuke Grand Forks, ND. No real need for me to panic. They don't have a delivery system anyway that can reach the US except for a container ship. Might want to short sell certain shipping companies depending on how the future pans out.

Who wants to bet that if they do get a nuke the accidentally manage to blow themselves up and everything within a 5 mile radius?

I wonder what the discourse would be if the Symbionese Liberation Army was in Baltimore.

Well, it's either the Taliban or whatever loonies take over when the current Pakistani government finally rolls over.

to the best of my knowledge, the taliban have expressed no interest in a global jihad. they only view themselves as a regional/local politcal movement.

a pretty farked up, violent political movement, but regional at most.

Nabb1: Well, it's either the Taliban or whatever loonies take over when the current Pakistani government finally rolls over.

This sounds like a script for an action/comedy. 3 factions that hate each other, each one sabotaging the efforts of the other.

Crosshair: Meh, I don't think they will nuke Grand Forks, ND. No real need for me to panic. They don't have a delivery system anyway that can reach the US except for a container ship. Might want to short sell certain shipping companies depending on how the future pans out.

Who wants to bet that if they do get a nuke the accidentally manage to blow themselves up and everything within a 5 mile radius?

No, but if an Al Qaeda friendly force pulls off a coup d'etat there, they'll have open access to Pakistan's 70 or so nukes. This is why we were propping up the Musharraf government all that time.

Yeah, as far as I know, if there's a coup in Pakistan, it's going to be the military and not the Talibans who are going to be responsible. The army is nowhere near of their camp, and the Talibans certainly do not have the power to overtake them either.

The last big standoff proved that.

Tatsuma: Yeah, as far as I know, if there's a coup in Pakistan, it's going to be the military and not the Talibans who are going to be responsible. The army is nowhere near of their camp, and the Talibans certainly do not have the power to overtake them either.

The last big standoff proved that.

There's a lot of Taliban sympathizers in the ISI and Pak army. No one really knows for sure who, either. If the Taliban manage to surround the rural regions around Peshawar, they can starve out the city.

Actually by Obama sending more troops into Afghanistan, he's positioning our military for a possible intervention if need be.

make me some tea: There's a lot of Taliban sympathizers in the ISI and Pak army. No one really knows for sure who, either. If the Taliban manage to surround the rural regions around Peshawar, they can starve out the city.

They can starve out the city... if the army decides to do absolutely nothing. Otherwise they can crush them (at a heavy civilian casualties price).

And it's not Taliban sympathizers as much as the ISI using the fundamentalists for their own gain, much like we tacitly supported Al Qaeda against the Russians. Doesn't mean we were sympathizer that would side with them.

Doesn't mean it's not going to come back and bite ISI in the ass either.

You can also be certain that India will feel compelled to action as well.

This could get really ugly.

Tatsuma: make me some tea: There's a lot of Taliban sympathizers in the ISI and Pak army. No one really knows for sure who, either. If the Taliban manage to surround the rural regions around Peshawar, they can starve out the city.

They can starve out the city... if the army decides to do absolutely nothing. Otherwise they can crush them (at a heavy civilian casualties price).

And it's not Taliban sympathizers as much as the ISI using the fundamentalists for their own gain, much like we tacitly supported Al Qaeda against the Russians. Doesn't mean we were sympathizer that would side with them.

Doesn't mean it's not going to come back and bite ISI in the ass either.

The army has not been successful thus far in keeping them back, and they're systematically converting regions to Taliban control, and the ones they haven't gained control yet, they are heavily influencing. It's like a virus around there.

I really don't see Islamabad falling to the Taliban anytime soon, or ever at this point, but there's gonna be a real shiatstorm before it's over. I hope they've got those nukes secured when chaos erupts. I'd hate for a few of them to go missing somehow.

shweet ... I'm really expecting to see a terrorist nuke go off in my lifetime. Hopefully not in my city.

dillenger69: shweet ... I'm really expecting to see a terrorist nuke go off in my lifetime. Hopefully not in my city.

Hopefully it is in your city. How bout them apples?

No, if Pakistan ever develops a third generation nuclear weapon that's small enough to transport covertly, or an intercontinental ballistic missile, THAT'S when you might consider panicking.

make me some tea: The army has not been successful thus far in keeping them back

I'm not denying that, but I'm saying that they simply didn't want to.

If they wanted to, they could, but it would end up looking like the Russians in Chechnya

burndtdan: to the best of my knowledge, the taliban have expressed no interest in a global jihad. they only view themselves as a regional/local politcal movement.

a pretty farked up, violent political movement, but regional at most.

Seeing as how the US took down their government, i think they might want a little revenge. There's enough maniacs within them to worry though, especially since they're in bed with Bin Laden.

If recent American history is any indication...I think this signals the beginning of an American invasion of Iran.

bulldg4life: If recent American history is any indication...I think this signals the beginning of an American invasion of Iran Peru.

Lets see, say the Talifreaks take over Pakiland. There would be a very very good chance the US, India and maybe even China would have every available bomber flying towards them to take out nuke sites & storage. All in hopes of avoiding a launch or a ground nuke from moving.

A Dark Evil Omen: bulldg4life: If recent American history is any indication...I think this signals the beginning of an American invasion of Iran Peru.

No, that was signaled by the handshake between Chavez and Obama.

thirdful: Lets see, say the Talifreaks take over Pakiland. There would be a very very good chance the US, India and maybe even China would have every available bomber flying towards them to take out nuke sites & storage. All in hopes of avoiding a launch or a ground nuke from moving.

What a brilliant idea that would, in no way, cause the Pakistanis to launch their own weapons on anybody in the area.

The burning question is how will this affect our supply of convenience store clerks in the future?
Will we fix the shortage by forcing taxi cab drivers to fill those positions?
Serious questions indeed!

Crosshair: Meh, I don't think they will nuke Grand Forks, ND. No real need for me to panic. They don't have a delivery system anyway that can reach the US except for a container ship. Might want to short sell certain shipping companies depending on how the future pans out.

Who wants to bet that if they do get a nuke the accidentally manage to blow themselves up and everything within a 5 mile radius?

To be perfectly honest I wonder what sort of reaction the world would have if terrorists did mishandle a nuclear weapon and blow themselves to oblivion. Not in terms of the death toll and 'what a tragedy' (assuming there were innocents involved), but whether countries would change any of their tactics for dealing with paramilitary organizations.

I'm pretty sure there'd be a ton of "This shiat is serious, we are looking into it," but would it actually change?

bulldg4life: If recent American history is any indication...I think this signals the beginning of an American invasion of Iran.

How else are we gonna send the troops from Iraq to Afghanistan? If we free the shiat out of some people on the way, so be it.

bulldg4life: thirdful: Lets see, say the Talifreaks take over Pakiland. There would be a very very good chance the US, India and maybe even China would have every available bomber flying towards them to take out nuke sites & storage. All in hopes of avoiding a launch or a ground nuke from moving.

What a brilliant idea that would, in no way, cause the Pakistanis to launch their own weapons on anybody in the area.

Are we having fun yet?

bulldg4life: thirdful: Lets see, say the Talifreaks take over Pakiland. There would be a very very good chance the US, India and maybe even China would have every available bomber flying towards them to take out nuke sites & storage. All in hopes of avoiding a launch or a ground nuke from moving.

What a brilliant idea that would, in no way, cause the Pakistanis to launch their own weapons on anybody in the area.

Pakistanis would no longer exist. It would only be the Talipakis. How much you wanna bet they will sell those nukes cheap to groups that have no issues blowing up a city. Now I know its a stretch to assume the islamic extremist would even consider causing civilian casualties, but you never know in the future.

This is a real pickle for Obama.

Is he going to pretend he's a peacehawk to please the liberals that elected him, or is he going to roll up his sleeves and get to work.

Hint: There should already be troops on the way there.

Herr_Teacher: This is a real pickle for Obama.

Is he going to pretend he's a peacehawk to please the liberals that elected him, or is he going to roll up his sleeves and get to work.

Hint: There should already be troops on the way there.

I guarantee you they're on the ball with this.

Herr_Teacher: This is a real pickle for Obama.

Is he going to pretend he's a peacehawk to please the liberals that elected him, or is he going to roll up his sleeves and get to work.

Hint: There should already be troops on the way there.

You're on your way to the enlistment office right now, I presume?

Glass parking lot.

Maybe we could nuke Pakistan, but only nuke their nuclear sites, and then be all like "I don't know what happened, we just got all these thermal blips on our radar and then the whole country was gone. Maybe the terrorists got to the bombs and accidentally blew them up? Whoever knows the truth is already dead."

Being a force in rural areas through guerilla warfare is fundamentally different than defeating a standing, professional army in open battle - which they would have to do in order to get hold of Pakistan's nukes. Even if there are those with divided loyalties, the Army as an institution is not going to hand over their crown jewels, their main defensive weapon, to a bunch of hillbilly tribesmen. Something tells me though, that the US knows exactly where the nukes are, and has a secret security arrangement in place for just this eventuality.

They could cause enough chaos to completely destabilize Pakistan, though, and cause India to reason that a first strike makes some kind of sense. Or justify a military coup. Or to just basically destroy modern Pakistan as we know it.

Crosshair: Meh, I don't think they will nuke Grand Forks, ND. No real need for me to panic. They don't have a delivery system anyway that can reach the US except for a container ship.

Yeah, there's no way they could hijack an aircraft and use that as a delivery system for a nuke.

And I thought you panicked and had to hug your guns at the mere mention of any threat?

Time to call India.

So we are talking about bombing/invading a country that hasn't attacked us and has WMD. Something about that seems vaguely familiar, just can't seem to place it.

Calvin Coolidge: You're on your way to the enlistment office right now, I presume?

Relevance? I thought this was a discussion on what needs to happen over there.

Plenty of available military are probably chomping at the bit to put the final nail in Al Qaeda's coffin.

I love how many "people" in this thread are fapping furiously over the thought of the deaths of 165 million people.

Jesus Tapdancing Christ!

The Taliban already have control of one, if not two cities inside of Pakistan. Who the hell do you guys think organized those attacks in Mumbai last month?

Don't you guys *ever* listen to NPR? They had quite a few stories about it.

Sheesh.

A Dark Evil Omen: I love how many "people" in this thread are fapping furiously over the thought of the deaths of 165 million people.

Glass parking lot.

A Dark Evil Omen: I love how many "people" in this thread are fapping furiously over the thought of the deaths of 165 million people.

Only about 20 million if done correctly. Beats having a rogue group hand off a nuke and taking out the following.
15 million in Shanhai, China or
18 mil in Mumbai, India or
10 mil Manila, Philippines or
10 min in Jakarta, Indonesia

That's just 4 nukes people. All in the hands of people who will stone young girls for being raped and telling on the rapists.

Crosshair: Meh, I don't think they will nuke Grand Forks, ND. No real need for me to panic. They don't have a delivery system anyway that can reach the US except for a container ship. Might want to short sell certain shipping companies depending on how the future pans out.

Who wants to bet that if they do get a nuke the accidentally manage to blow themselves up and everything within a 5 mile radius?

More concerned about the NUKES in Texas right now, especially since they are a little closer to us then pakistan, and do have delivery systems.


I hope like hell Obama is smart enough to pull all WMD's out of Texas like... ASAP.


OH and I'm certain AlQueda will end up blowing themselves or some other arabs up before they get here.

This is bad...for Obama.

This is good...for Osama.

Herr_Teacher: This is a real pickle for Obama.

Is he going to pretend he's a peacehawk to please the liberals that elected him, or is he going to roll up his sleeves and get to work.

Hint: There should already be troops on the way there.

I seem to remember Republicans taking extreme umbrage at the idea that Obama had suggested that we bomb AQ strongholds in Pakistan, claiming that it was symbolic of his naive and unprepared nature to suggest such a thing.

The "peacehawks" thought it was a good idea and elected him.

I suspect he's way ahead of you on this, but hint: invading Pakistan tomorrow might not be too bright. It's just possible that there might be more than two settings on the old foreign policy dial than "ignore" and "invade". Invading Pakistan is a loser idea, for the simple reason that we don't have the troops or the equipment available. If it really came to that, we'd probably just give the green light to India. But it would probably make more sense to make sure it didn't come to that.

"Get me Colin Powell."

A Dark Evil Omen: I love how many "people" in this thread are fapping furiously over the thought of the deaths of 165 million people.

Well Osama Bin Laden IS one of those people. So we would have THAT going for us.

Tatsuma: make me some tea: The army has not been successful thus far in keeping them back

I'm not denying that, but I'm saying that they simply didn't want to.

If they wanted to, they could, but it would end up looking like the Russians in Chechnya

Right, well thus far they've been practicing containment, but apparently that's no longer effective.

Don't we have DeathBots to handle this sort of thing?

Now would be a great time to pull all of our forces in the Middle East and just let those suckers have at it.

It's their goddamn fight, let THEM fight it out. Just secure our borders and wait for the last man to fall.

make me some tea: Herr_Teacher: This is a real pickle for Obama.

Is he going to pretend he's a peacehawk to please the liberals that elected him, or is he going to roll up his sleeves and get to work.

Hint: There should already be troops on the way there.

I guarantee you they're on the ball with this.

I agree with you on that; I just hope they are on the ball with Texas. Seriously, why is no one talking about a state that has a boner for guns and violence, that is wanting to secede having nukes, that's a hell of a lot more frightening then some cameljockey's halfway across the world, sitting right next to Inda, near Russia and China getting thier dirty hands one some nukes they are probably to farking dumb to figure out anyway.

Tatsuma: Yeah, as far as I know, if there's a coup in Pakistan, it's going to be the military and not the Talibans who are going to be responsible. The army is nowhere near of their camp, and the Talibans certainly do not have the power to overtake them either.

The last big standoff proved that.

This is what I basically came here to point out. The Taliban pose a serious threat, immediately as well as in the long term, but there's no realistic chance of them actually 'taking over' the country's institutions and security apparatus - if the government does collapse (which is always possible) the military will just step in an take over. Sure, there's plenty to worry about, but it's not time to panic just yet.