I was a pretty hardcore fan from Gish to Adore, interests started dwindling around Machina, got a boost thanks to Machina II and the release of the farking holy grail Mashed Potatoes full set, then it started dwindling further with Zwan, lost interested completely with his solo effort (couldn't even listen to it once completely). Then got a bit of interest back when they released the new album, has lost interest since then.

All this to say, even at the height of my SP loving days... where I farking owned and listened to The Marked and his other pre-Pumpkins stuff... even then I wouldn't have paid for a farking video-log. And I paid $200 for the Siamese Singles boxset...

/I still own every single thing they've released on record up to Machina...

Oh man, he is so full of himself it's almost painful.

I used to be such a big SP fan.

Then I grew up.

/srsly, Siamese Dream is one of the best albums ever

Also, one of his best live shows is the first official one (7 tracks, from 1989), Jennifer Ever is still one of his best songs, and Adore is the album that has aged the best.

deal with it.

Christi: Oh man, he is so full of himself it's almost painful.

Back around SD/MCIS/A he had very good reasons to be.

Tatsuma: Christi: Oh man, he is so full of himself it's almost painful.

Back around SD/MCIS/A he had very good reasons to be.

And some of the songs he's been writing over the last year are of that caliber. Owata, 99 Floors, Song for a Son, and Gossamer are amazing efforts.

Would not pay for a video log. Some people will. Wow. Guess what, subby. Some people think devoting your life to World of Warcraft is pretty stupid too. Isn't it amazing how some people will pay for things that other people think is lame?

Tatsuma: I was a pretty hardcore fan from Gish to Adore, interests started dwindling around Machina, got a boost thanks to Machina II and the release of the farking holy grail Mashed Potatoes full set, then it started dwindling further with Zwan, lost interested completely with his solo effort (couldn't even listen to it once completely). Then got a bit of interest back when they released the new album, has lost interest since then.

All this to say, even at the height of my SP loving days... where I farking owned and listened to The Marked and his other pre-Pumpkins stuff... even then I wouldn't have paid for a farking video-log. And I paid $200 for the Siamese Singles boxset...

/I still own every single thing they've released on record up to Machina...

This.

Although I got off the boat after D'arcy and James left, and never got any interest back, even when they "reformed".

How does one reform a band without the original members?

Billy Corgan is WAY too far up his own ass.

Tatsuma: even then I wouldn't have paid for a farking video-log. And I paid $200 for the Siamese Singles boxset...

Ahhh Siamese Singles, one of the first big purchases I made after getting my first job in high school. In my teenage mind, the Siamese Singles boxset was going to buy me a boat when I got older and resold it. I think thanks to Billy's continued douchebaggery it'll more likely buy me a nice sandwich at best.

Beatle_Matt: How does one reform a band without the original members?

More bands than you can ever imagine have done so. Many bands you probably like have done so.

D'Arcy contributed nothing ... absolutely nothing. James was a solid player and wrote a couple of great songs, but overall, we all know Corgan was/is the foundation of that group. He played almost everything on the albums anyway.

MuckSP: Ahhh Siamese Singles, one of the first big purchases I made after getting my first job in high school. In my teenage mind, the Siamese Singles boxset was going to buy me a boat when I got older and resold it. I think thanks to Billy's continued douchebaggery it'll more likely buy me a nice sandwich at best.

Yup, I had the same thoughts in the past as well, turns out that I would lose lots of money if I sold all I have now.

WaltzingMathilda: D'Arcy contributed nothing ... absolutely nothing. James was a solid player and wrote a couple of great songs, but overall, we all know Corgan was/is the foundation of that group. He played almost everything on the albums anyway.

Pretty much.

I think they served as anchor to him, though, because once they were gone he pretty much lost most of it.

WaltzingMathilda: Beatle_Matt: How does one reform a band without the original members?

More bands than you can ever imagine have done so. Many bands you probably like have done so.

D'Arcy contributed nothing ... absolutely nothing. James was a solid player and wrote a couple of great songs, but overall, we all know Corgan was/is the foundation of that group. He played almost everything on the albums anyway.

I agree with you about D'arcy. She's the only bassist on the planet that makes Adam Clayton look like Hendrix.

..but no James Iha = no pumpkins. That is one of the most underrated guitarists out there.

You couldn't have Paul and Ringo go out on tour now and call themselves The Beatles? Not the same.

Beatle_Matt: WaltzingMathilda: Beatle_Matt: How does one reform a band without the original members?

More bands than you can ever imagine have done so. Many bands you probably like have done so.

D'Arcy contributed nothing ... absolutely nothing. James was a solid player and wrote a couple of great songs, but overall, we all know Corgan was/is the foundation of that group. He played almost everything on the albums anyway.

I agree with you about D'arcy. She's the only bassist on the planet that makes Adam Clayton look like Hendrix.

..but no James Iha = no pumpkins. That is one of the most underrated guitarists out there.

You couldn't have Paul and Ringo go out on tour now and call themselves The Beatles? Not the same.

No you couldn't. But that's because of the huge contribution John and George made to the band.

This scenario is different in that no matter how good Iha was, his contribution is minimal, or at least replaceable. Jeff Schroeder is pretty good.

WaltzingMathilda: Beatle_Matt: WaltzingMathilda: Beatle_Matt: How does one reform a band without the original members?

More bands than you can ever imagine have done so. Many bands you probably like have done so.

D'Arcy contributed nothing ... absolutely nothing. James was a solid player and wrote a couple of great songs, but overall, we all know Corgan was/is the foundation of that group. He played almost everything on the albums anyway.

I agree with you about D'arcy. She's the only bassist on the planet that makes Adam Clayton look like Hendrix.

..but no James Iha = no pumpkins. That is one of the most underrated guitarists out there.

You couldn't have Paul and Ringo go out on tour now and call themselves The Beatles? Not the same.

No you couldn't. But that's because of the huge contribution John and George made to the band.

This scenario is different in that no matter how good Iha was, his contribution is minimal, or at least replaceable. Jeff Schroeder is pretty good.

How DARE you say that Iha was replaceable! :)

Beatle_Matt: How DARE you say that Iha was replaceable! :)

Don't let my statements make it seem as though I didn't really like Iha. He wrote 2 of my favorite songs (or got writing credit on them).

Funny thing is that the article was probably submitted by someone that has no problem paying for extra content on a website.

I friended him on LJ. It has been pretty interesting.

Dreadstar: Funny thing is that the article was probably submitted by someone that has no problem paying for extra content on a website.

thread over, irony lost on this thread's TF Billy C haters

Tatsuma: Christi: Oh man, he is so full of himself it's almost painful.

Back around SD/MCIS/A he had very good reasons to be.

except it's "Full of himself ego" it's "Full of himself WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND ME ESPECIALLY MY FANS?!" The latter is much worse,e specially when you stop writing quality material. And listening to some Adore material, it doesn't really hold up. It comes across as Rock circa 1998 when techno was supposed to be The Next Big Thing and most every rock band latched onto that trend by throwing in the occasional drum loop here and there. (see also: Bush)

Did he ever find his car keys?

Tatsuma: I was a pretty hardcore fan from Gish to Adore, interests started dwindling around Machina, got a boost thanks to Machina II and the release of the farking holy grail Mashed Potatoes full set, then it started dwindling further with Zwan, lost interested completely with his solo effort (couldn't even listen to it once completely). Then got a bit of interest back when they released the new album, has lost interest since then.

All this to say, even at the height of my SP loving days... where I farking owned and listened to The Marked and his other pre-Pumpkins stuff... even then I wouldn't have paid for a farking video-log. And I paid $200 for the Siamese Singles boxset...

/I still own every single thing they've released on record up to Machina...

You just described, almost exactly, my own experience with Smashing Pumpkins (never got the Siamese singles boxset, tho).

Basically, he built himself a tower of goodwill and devotion with 4 excellent-to-classic albums, and then spent 7 years demolishing it into a pile of rubble. Now that he's JUST starting to rebuild the foundation after Zeitgeist, he's acting like, not only did the tower never fall, it's the tallest tower in the farking world. He's devolved into a level of self-delusion I can't possibly fathom, and it makes me sad.

It doesn't overshadow any of his previous accomplishments in the least, but it still makes it hard for me to build up the same level of excitement about anything new they may be releasing in the future.

I'll still listen to Mellon Collie every month, tho.

For those of you still swearing by Corgan: try defending this.

FeedTheCollapse: For those of you still swearing by Corgan: try defending this.

why defend? no one is beyond embarrassing moments.

Tatsuma: I was a pretty hardcore fan from Gish to Adore, interests started dwindling around Machina, got a boost thanks to Machina II and the release of the farking holy grail Mashed Potatoes full set, then it started dwindling further with Zwan, lost interested completely with his solo effort (couldn't even listen to it once completely). Then got a bit of interest back when they released the new album, has lost interest since then.

I really like Gish, Siamese Dream and Pisces Iscariot. Some of Mellon Collie made me go "huh?" but I like most of it. Adore was utter crap and I was done with him after that. Billy should stop pretending he's making Pumpkins albums and just release stuff as a solo artist since that's essentially what the band is.

As a longtime Smashing Pumpkins fans, and a damn big one at that, I've got to say that it's the Billy Corgan apologists and knee-jerk defenders who make me disinclined to express my fandom too loudly or too publicly.

You know who I mean. Yes, you. Stop it. You're embarrassing the rest of us.

He was soo cool to me when I met him in the Albuquerque airport when I was a little nerdy teenager, I was so shy I couldn't do anything but gape at him and he came over and talked to me and gave me an autograph. I will always love Billy Corgan for being sweet to the skinniest dorkiest girl on earth.

shoegaze99: As a longtime Smashing Pumpkins fans, and a damn big one at that, I've got to say that it's the Billy Corgan apologists and knee-jerk defenders who make me disinclined to express my fandom too loudly or too publicly.

You know who I mean. Yes, you. Stop it. You're embarrassing the rest of us.

Please use an example of what is embarrassing to you.

Why is there a Billy Organ thread in here practically every day? Jesus, you'd think the guy was relevant or had been at some point in the past 15 years. (He isn't/hasn't been, in case you're keeping score.)

I thought there weren't going to be any "albums" anymore?

...Jimmy left for a reason, and this time it wasn't drug-related.

For those who care, Corgan read about the butthurt from the fans about this and lowered the price to $20 for 12 weeks of content:


In the email, Corgan first went into more detail about the concept:

This would dwarf the kind of access that was given for example in the 'if all goes wrong' dvd, where one could see me briefly working out some idea. Having seen some of the raw footage from what Kristin [Burns] shot at that time, there were moments that played out over 5 or 7 minutes that were quite interesting on their own but were definitely too long for a movie that had to hold a plot narrative.

But Corgan says that negative reactions to his initial proposal - which was to charge $40 for a 12-week subscription - have rendered that $40 version "dead on arrival":

The reaction was 50/50 mixed and very negative on the one side. I was so upset that I wrote a very long post in reaction, mocking the arguments made and canceling it altogether. Reading how something as open-hearted as inviting you into my inner-world of creativity turns into a sick, capitalistic manipulation is really disappointing to me personally.

He dismissed the notion that his motivation for the project could be money:

It's laughable for people to think that this is some kind of way to stuff my pockets. One 90 minute concert alone and the profits from that completely blow such stupidity out of the water.

Corgan offered a revised proposal, but left its fate up to his fans:

I figure to do this right its about 2,000$ a day, or 10,000$ a week which adds up to 120,000$. Boring isn't it? ...If you as a community can self organize and 6000 people want to do this, then its 20$ (for the whole 12 weeks). I'd much rather stuff 20$ in my pockets from 6000 people than 3000! (That's a joke by the way for those of you who lack the irony gene)

It ain't gonna happen for 40$ obviously because the negative vibe in the air just makes it all so icky. And I don't do icky anymore. If 20$ is TOO much for 12 weeks of unique, daily content and the trust isn't there for me to deliver it, then I might as well just focus on the mainstream fan who I know already doesn't give care for 'the art' and get back to the *yawn* grunge...

1979 was one of the greatest songs and videos of the 90's.

That is all.

My mom like S.P. She's 65.

FeedTheCollapse: Tatsuma: Christi: Oh man, he is so full of himself it's almost painful.

Back around SD/MCIS/A he had very good reasons to be.

except it's "Full of himself ego" it's "Full of himself WHY DOESN'T ANYONE UNDERSTAND ME ESPECIALLY MY FANS?!" The latter is much worse,e specially when you stop writing quality material. And listening to some Adore material, it doesn't really hold up. It comes across as Rock circa 1998 when techno was supposed to be The Next Big Thing and most every rock band latched onto that trend by throwing in the occasional drum loop here and there. (see also: Bush)

Funny, since most good rock/alt bands these days do use drum loops and electronics.

WaltzingMathilda: Tatsuma: Christi: Oh man, he is so full of himself it's almost painful.

Back around SD/MCIS/A he had very good reasons to be.

And some of the songs he's been writing over the last year are of that caliber. Owata, 99 Floors, Song for a Son, and Gossamer are amazing efforts.

Would not pay for a video log. Some people will. Wow. Guess what, subby. Some people think devoting your life to World of Warcraft is pretty stupid too. Isn't it amazing how some people will pay for things that other people think is lame?

Huh. I've hated everything Corgan has done since Adore (loved the stuff before, used to be my favorite band about age 12-18).

I just looked up a live version of Gossamer on youtube because of your comment and it was actually kinda awesome.

/i dont know what to think just now

he's just plain wierd looking....Conehead Corgan ?? Consume mass quantities...

xeus8: I just looked up a live version of Gossamer on youtube because of your comment and it was actually kinda awesome.

/i dont know what to think just now

i was not a fan of machina I or II or zeitgeist, but since then it's looking promising.

gossamer reminds me of the old jamming days, but with more loud

danduran: Funny, since most good rock/alt bands these days do use drum loops and electronics.

they at least had a more natural way of doing it. "Rock meets Electronica" circa 1998 was essentially standard alt rock, but then a drum break popped through randomly. Granted, SP at least had an excuse, what with Jimmy being fired, and they were certainly better at mixing the two genres than most.

schattenteufel: My mom like S.P. She's 65.

My cue to ask those queries currently ricocheting around my brain: what do you think you will you be listening to when (FSM willing) you reach your declining years? Will you be listening to the music that you are listening to now, you think? Will you still be attending concerts? Will you "act your age"? Will you give the hot new musical trend of that era an objective listen?

I used to like the Adam's Family until Billy Corrigan started looking like Uncle Fester in the late 90's.

I never could get into Smashing Pumpkins. I was listening to Sepultura quite often back then. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I've always called them "Squishing Squash"

slimebarfer supreme: I've always called them "Squishing Squash"

I bet you call Las Vegas "Lost Wages" hahahahahahaha

meh. everything after the tristessa 7" sucked.

WaltzingMathilda: slimebarfer supreme: I've always called them "Squishing Squash"

I bet you call Las Vegas "Lost Wages" hahahahahahaha

Why yes I do! I also call Reno "Drano", having lived there.