Stomach reduction surgery?

And universal care is going to help? That's the crap the media's been telling us.

Here's an idea, get rid of the ILLEGALS who rape our resources, and perhaps, just perhaps.....AMERICA's underinsured wouldn't swell as much.

I'm sure they'd see a doctor if they could afford it?

Sure, they can "take" their problems to someone who cares.

smokescreen:
Here's an idea, get rid of the ILLEGALS who rape our resources, and perhaps, just perhaps.....AMERICA's underinsured wouldn't swell as much.


No politician has the balls to take that one to the floor.

Their career comes first, dummy.

They should see a doctor if it lasts more than four hours.

Surely the billions and billions rolling into the SCHIP plan from tobacco taxes will eliminate any shortage of funds for health care before the end of the year.

This poster says: smokescreen:
Here's an idea, get rid of the ILLEGALS who rape our resources, and perhaps, just perhaps.....AMERICA's underinsured wouldn't swell as much.


No politician has the balls to take that one to the floor.

Their career comes first, dummy.

You mean they don't really care about us? What about the children?

25 years in health care finance in multiple roles on all sides, I can tell you what the real problems are, but no one really wants to hear.

Suffice to say, this will become an "Evil Insurance Companies\Evil Sick People" thread, and the American Medical Association and American Hospital Association will feel satisfied that once again their work is done here.

This poster says: smokescreen:
Here's an idea, get rid of the ILLEGALS who rape our resources, and perhaps, just perhaps.....AMERICA's underinsured wouldn't swell as much.


No politician has the balls to take that one to the floor.

Their career comes first, dummy.

I may be a dummy, but am not stupid. As a matter of fact, with the delay of e-verify and Obama reaching out to Latin America along with his proposed plan to reform immigration - you can rest assured that we Americans citizens will be the minority in our country. With amnesty coming down the line, rest assured, the illegals and their 7 kids per household will rule and ensure that Democrats get elected for generations to come. It better be stopped.

But, but Obama said that we are on equal footing with Latin America (you know, the barrios and all), so expect it to be pushed through.

Get covered:

www.ehealthinsurance.com

The providers compete for your business!

One of my goals for the past two years has been health insurance. Even in Japan, which has social medicine for a moderate fee, it's tough on a serf's wages.

Insurance companies have RUINED health care. Doctors don't cost half of what they have to charge because of malpractice insurance and the like. And "health" insurance folks gouge you till you get sick and then drop your ass.

Why, in this age of random shootings and mindless terror, has no one simply shot the living fark out insurance companies, I don't know. But I'm still aiming to get myself some o' that sweet sweet paper what means I can goes to the doctor before I'm 30. But as it is going... I dunno.

This is the ONLY county in the world with such an extensive insurance-based health care system and it's obviously inefficient, corrupt, and expensive. I don't know why some people cling to it. Hell, we could follow Mexico's system and still be better off in terms of treated people. Time for a change.

America's Underinsured Are Swelling


Aaaand Leon's growing Laaaarger!

/leaps out of thread.

This poster says: smokescreen:
Here's an idea, get rid of the ILLEGALS who rape our resources, and perhaps, just perhaps.....AMERICA's underinsured wouldn't swell as much.


No politician has the balls to take that one to the floor.

Their career comes first, dummy.

While illegals do add to the overall cost of medical aide by going to the emergency rooms (same as all the ununsured)they are not the reason our health care system is farked. Stop looking for scapegoats and deal in facts...

As far as politicians go, how about laying the blame where it belongs - business which wants cheap labor and hire illegals.

Cuchulane: 25 years in health care finance in multiple roles on all sides, I can tell you what the real problems are, but no one really wants to hear.

Suffice to say, this will become an "Evil Insurance Companies\Evil Sick People" thread, and the American Medical Association and American Hospital Association will feel satisfied that once again their work is done here.

As one of the recently unemployed and thus uninsured, I'm getting a kick....no I'm not. I'm lucky that the prescription I take is available at Wal-Mart for four dollars a month. What sinks my boat is that the doctor wants to see me every two months to "monitor" my condition. The co-pay was twenty-five bucks.

Now? It's a full on out of pocket expense and the office visit costs me eighty-five dollars to sit in the waiting room for at least 45 minutes before seeing a nurse who spends five minutes shuffling me from the weigh station to the blood pressure cuff and then into a small room with no windows to wait ANOTHER fifteen to thirty minutes to see the doctor who looks at my chart, asks me how I feel the meds are working while sticking a cold stethescope on my back while cheerily saying, "See you in a month and a half or so!" If I get five minutes with the actual doctor I'm actually surprised.

Preface: NOT A TROLL.

I'd be very interested to hear a differing opinion as to why our overall healthcare model is completely in the shiatter.

America needs a crash course in empathy.

My husband and I make decent money (kinda struggling with my recent layoff). Had Health insurance...they kept raising our rates when we used it....no ongoing health problems for us...both are healthy nonsmoking...I had a recent surgery...what it didn't cover we have to pay...can't afford the premiums and pay the remaining doctor bills too...we pay as we go and hope that nothing major happens before we get the Dr. bills paid... it sucks...but what are you gonna do?

I don't know why people defend the current system of health care.

It is not the hospitals nor doctors that's the problem, it's the insurance companies.

You wouldn't buy food & water insurance, that would be silly, but insurance for my general well being? Yeah that makes perfect sense.

So if 10% of my income goes to medical expenses, I'm "underinsured."

However when 50% of my income goes to directly to various levels of government in the form of taxes, I'm not "over-taxed." I need to STFU and sit down... and be castigated by the likes of Rachel Maddow as a "teabagger" on national television.

Got it.

Medical care was much more affordable before all the regulators came in to make it more affordable... now it's insane. Go back to fee for service with catastrophic coverage. Rational people with the ability to think clearly say this all the time, but are shouted down by people who know better... It's like pissing in the wind.

No... go ahead put on your knee-pads and re-elect the douchebag you always vote for back into Congress for another term. He does such a great job. Good plan.

Consumer-driven health care is a joke.

It's only a "good" deal if you're young and completely healthy, with no conditions that ever require specialist care, and yet have a high enough income for it to significantly reduce your tax liability (hint: it's not all that many young people who make enough yet to save significantly on taxes from them). If you've got anything wrong with you (for example, I have a genetic disease), then they're generally a bad deal. If you're a young woman who could get pregnant, they're generally a bad deal (proof that HSA plans were designed by misogynistic Republicans??). If you later develop any sort of expensive condition (like MS), then you're screwed. Basically you're only coming out ahead if you are totally healthy, remain totally healthy, make enough that you save a lot on taxes, and are "encouraged" not to "overuse" healthcare.

But those people aren't the real problem with healthcare costs. The people driving up the costs are people with catastrophic health incidents or chronic conditions, and HSAs are useless at modifying their behavior because their care is non-optional. Worse, the HSA plan might encourage people to forgo needed care, including preventative care (and there several studies that show this). That might "save money now", but cost us all more money down the road.

Let's call HSA plans what they are: a Republican scam to create yet another upper-class tax loophole while helping insurance companies shift costs onto patients in the people who actually incur the most costs. They are meant to trick us into this by preying on our own sense of invulnerability when we're healthy and setting us against each other.

skylabdown: Medical care was much more affordable before all the regulators came in to make it more affordable... now it's insane. Go back to fee for service with catastrophic coverage. Rational people with the ability to think clearly say this all the time, but are shouted down by people who know better... It's like pissing in the wind.

You're simply wrong, because that's essentially what an HSA plan is. And it doesn't work. The problem is that most healthcare dollars ARE spent on catastrophic care, so that scheme wouldn't lower costs much.

I would definitely be in favor of fee-for-service with catastrophic coverage.

We have been uninsured now for 10 years, and its not the regular small-time visits that hurt ya, its the serious illnesses.

As a cash-payer, I negotiate all the time with doctors offices and regularly get a 20-50% discount on the spot for paying my bill then and there.

What really chaps my ass is the attitude we get when we reveal to the office workers that we are uninsured. We are automatically deadbeats in their eyes, even though we are clean-cut, well dressed, and go to the doctors office instead of the emergency room.

Lershac: As a cash-payer, I negotiate all the time with doctors offices and regularly get a 20-50% discount on the spot for paying my bill then and there.

That's nothing compared to the discounts the insurance companies get. You simply cannot have the same level of negotiating leverage as a company that can bring in hundreds of patients (or take them away).

Yes, we know. Socialized healthcare is the answer; because it's been working SO WELL in the countries that have it.

*smacks forehead*

This is all too true. I'm on of them.

Last year, I tore a ligament in my wrist. I worked for the state, so I thought I had great insurance and no worries. I had to have two surgeries to fix it. Between surgery bills, physical therapy, doctor visits, hospital visits, and all other bills, it added up to 30% of my annual income in just co-pays! How can this happen?

Socialized health care may not be perfect, but it's got to be better than this!

gjs_cds: Yes, we know. Socialized healthcare is the answer; because it's been working SO WELL in the countries that have it.

We have socialized healthcare. What are you talking about?

Usually, my dr will charge me whatever the current medicare rate is (what medicare will pay if I was on it) when I was uninsured. Did that for 9 years. Finally got on insurance via my husband's job and now I just can't afford to go to the dr's because of the level of income we are in. Sigh. Will soon be losing that coverage as well. Nothing is worse than having to decide if one is sick enough to go to the dr's and having to pay for it while worrying about what it will do to your family if you do or don't go.

gjs_cds: Yes, we know. Socialized healthcare is the answer; because it's been working SO WELL in the countries that have it.

*smacks forehead*

It's weird that only American's complain about other country's national healthcare. I don't see a lot of Brits or Canadians coming in and yelling "I wish we had America's system!" Not to mention are health care standard is way lower than any other first world country. But USA! USA! right?

I'm uninsured right now. If I don't get a job soon, I may have to go buy health insurance. But I have a pre-existing condition and drugs that cost me $150 dollars a month. How do you think that's going to work out for me?

Our system is farked and it has almost nothing to do with illegal immigrants(directed towards the fool in the second post.)

Underinsured? I wish I had that problem.
Try UNINSURABLE.
Had Aetna, dropped like a hot potato.
Tried at least 20 other companies even with "pre-existing" clauses.
Don't ever think one company will not share every ounce of your medical history with other companies. Nobody will insure me.
Told by a lawyer my best bet is to quit working, get a divorce and go on public aid. Sad, but true.
Non-smoker in my 30's.
Cancer - caught early, treatable.
Insurance companies - deadly.

I do not think HSAs are an adequate solution to the health care issue, but I do use an HSA. I do not have any health ailments, and I am in my 20s, so I opted to take a health insurance plan with very high deductibles. It only covers catastrophic events, so the premium is extremely low. The money I save from my inexpensive insurance policy goes right into the HSA. The money I have in my HSA exceeds my deductibles, so I am safe for now. ;)

HSAs work well for someone in my position.

A Gentile in Boca: Underinsured? I wish I had that problem.
Try UNINSURABLE.
Had Aetna, dropped like a hot potato.
Tried at least 20 other companies even with "pre-existing" clauses.
Don't ever think one company will not share every ounce of your medical history with other companies. Nobody will insure me.
Told by a lawyer my best bet is to quit working, get a divorce and go on public aid. Sad, but true.
Non-smoker in my 30's.
Cancer - caught early, treatable.
Insurance companies - deadly.

Oh my god I am so sorry. Stories like that want be to simultaneously cry and beat the crap out of people.

One of the big things that increases health care costs is the infrastructure of the "typical" doctor's office, at least here in suburbia. First of all, most doctors no longer have solo practices, they are participants in group practices, and those groups usually have enormous suites of offices with dozens of employees. The fancier and larger the office suites, and the more specialized the focus of that group, the more $$ they charge.

An attitude that really bugs me is that, since I'm (currently) covered by a great plan, I'm supposed to ignore the exorbitant charges on the bills since I don't pay for them. I complained to my GP when he suggested that I return to an orthopedic specialist, which I didn't want to do since my last visit charged my insurance company over $1000, and the GP said "what do you care, you're not paying for it?". How am I supposed to be a "responsible consumer of health care resources" if I have no say in how they're allocated?

Mnemia:
That's nothing compared to the discounts the insurance companies get. You simply cannot have the same level of negotiating leverage as a company that can bring in hundreds of patients (or take them away).

Thats True, and some offices will not negotiate at all, and we do not patronize them.

It is just really hard for me to see the value in paying $175 to see a doctor for 5 minutes so he/she can prescribe me some meds. It's even harder for me to understand some of the billing practices of the labs, where if I go self pay, I get a price of $X and if I ask the doctors office to pay and I reimburse the doctor, its X/10. It didnt take me long to catch on to that trick.

There is just a whole bag of screwed-uppedness in the whole system, as doctors over-test to CYA, and under-test in some cases from pressure of the insurance companies.

In one example, I had west-nile, and the doctor sent me to get a bunch of blood tests, and the bill was over $4k. Luckily I asked before the testing commenced. I talked to the doctor and asked, based on the results of these tests, what is the course of treatment? And he stated that really the only treatment was monitoring and letting it run its course, with appropriate supportive care (bedrest and fluids). So no tests necessary, just go home and rest, and if your symptoms do this or that, call me.

sheesh.

Semi-Sane: HSAs work well for someone in my position.

I agree, it sounds like a good deal for you, unless you develop some sort of expensive condition unexpectedly. Then you might wish you weren't on an HSA plan.

smokescreen 2009-04-19 09:01:33 AM And universal care is going to help? That's the crap the media's been telling us. Here's an idea, get rid of the ILLEGALS who rape our resources, and perhaps, just perhaps.....AMERICA's underinsured wouldn't swell as much
=======================================

Are you channeling Lou Dobbs or something?

How the fark do illegals have ANYTHING to do with the fact that even the people who are insured have crappy insurance?

Nor do illegals have anything to do with the fact that 45m don't have insurance as well.

Move to Canada, problem solved.

A Gentile in Boca: Underinsured? I wish I had that problem.
Try UNINSURABLE.
Had Aetna, dropped like a hot potato.
Tried at least 20 other companies even with "pre-existing" clauses.
Don't ever think one company will not share every ounce of your medical history with other companies. Nobody will insure me.
Told by a lawyer my best bet is to quit working, get a divorce and go on public aid. Sad, but true.
Non-smoker in my 30's.
Cancer - caught early, treatable.
Insurance companies - deadly.

This is just heartless. I can't believe companies can get away with that and don't get sued out their pants. I hope you can eventually get something.

On a completely random note, the baby in your profile is adorable!

WildMonkey: It is not the hospitals nor doctors that's the problem, it's the insurance companies.

The doctors and hospitals are the ones who keep raising rates. So even if their hand is being forced, they certainly aren't innocent here.

/$12 aspirin tablet FTW

YodaTuna:

I'm uninsured right now. If I don't get a job soon, I may have to go buy health insurance. But I have a pre-existing condition and drugs that cost me $150 dollars a month. How do you think that's going to work out for me?

Our system is farked and it has almost nothing to do with illegal immigrants(directed towards the fool in the second post.)

Try carrying my wifes narcolepsy and $1K a month drug bills,self employed. We are for all intents and purposes uninsurable.

But there are resources out there for the persistent. Most drug manufacturers have aid plans for the uninsured, and will give vouchers for medications to the chronically ill and uninsured, but you do have to jump through quite a few hoops to get them.

WildMonkey: I don't know why people defend the current system of health care.

Me neither.

This idea of using insurance to cover your medical costs is absolutely insane.

That's like going to Vegas to make your mortgage payments, insurance is gambling and the house will win.

A Gentile in Boca: Underinsured? I wish I had that problem.
Try UNINSURABLE.
Had Aetna, dropped like a hot potato.
Tried at least 20 other companies even with "pre-existing" clauses.
Don't ever think one company will not share every ounce of your medical history with other companies. Nobody will insure me.
Told by a lawyer my best bet is to quit working, get a divorce and go on public aid. Sad, but true.
Non-smoker in my 30's.
Cancer - caught early, treatable.
Insurance companies - deadly.

You didnt think HIPA was there to protect you? They are required to share.

For those paying cash, I recommend identity theft.

jake3988: Are you channeling Lou Dobbs or something?

How the fark do illegals have ANYTHING to do with the fact that even the people who are insured have crappy insurance?

Nor do illegals have anything to do with the fact that 45m don't have insurance as well.

Illegal immigrants DO contribute very slightly to our increase in healthcare costs (because hospitals end up raising prices to compensate for the uncompensated care). But they are a tiny drop in the bucket with comparison to the number of uninsured Americans who also contribute to the increase in healthcare costs. For one thing, they tend to use less healthcare than the population as a whole, because they tend to be younger than the population as a whole (since so many younger men come here illegally for the purpose of finding work). They're really only a serious problem in places that have a very high concentration of them, and even then they are a totally separate side-issue from healthcare reform in general.

This "news story" brought to you by AIG, et al.

smokescreen: This poster says: smokescreen:
Here's an idea, get rid of the ILLEGALS who rape our resources, and perhaps, just perhaps.....AMERICA's underinsured wouldn't swell as much.


No politician has the balls to take that one to the floor.

Their career comes first, dummy.

I may be a dummy, but am not stupid. As a matter of fact, with the delay of e-verify and Obama reaching out to Latin America along with his proposed plan to reform immigration - you can rest assured that we Americans citizens will be the minority in our country. With amnesty coming down the line, rest assured, the illegals and their 7 kids per household will rule and ensure that Democrats get elected for generations to come. It better be stopped.

But, but Obama said that we are on equal footing with Latin America (you know, the barrios and all), so expect it to be pushed through.


SMOKESCREEN:

Your misery keeps me warm at night. Enjoy it just like I enjoyed my misery for the last 8 years of the criminal, liar, murderer bush. 8 years is a long damn time.

laloba: My husband and I make decent money (kinda struggling with my recent layoff). Had Health insurance...they kept raising our rates when we used it....no ongoing health problems for us...both are healthy nonsmoking...I had a recent surgery...what it didn't cover we have to pay...can't afford the premiums and pay the remaining doctor bills too...we pay as we go and hope that nothing major happens before we get the Dr. bills paid... it sucks...but what are you gonna do?

Move out of the toilet that is America? I hear Canada has figured a way to get around this (no system is perfect, but I don't see them turning away their own people to die due to financial red tape).

Capitalism at it's best. Get on board or die.

smokescreen: And universal care is going to help? That's the crap the media's been telling us.

Here's an idea, get rid of the ILLEGALS who rape our resources, and perhaps, just perhaps.....AMERICA's underinsured wouldn't swell as much.

Ah, smear tactics, the resort of the feeble-minded.

just rob coverage from the overinsured. That seems to be working so far everywhere else.

gjs_cds: Yes, we know. Socialized healthcare is the answer; because it's been working SO WELL in the countries that have it.

*smacks forehead*

Well, yeah. Where's the large Dutch groundwell against their horrible healthcare system which provides terrible care?

TheEternal: Socialized health care may not be perfect, but it's got to be better than this!

QFT.
Not sure if this is public access, but if so, check out
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/573877 (new window)
which gives some evidence against these myths:

Myth 1: The US Healthcare System Is the Best in the World
Myth 2: There Will Always Be a Certain Segment of the Population That Remains Uninsured
Myth 3: The Uninsured Have Equal Access to Medical Care Through the Emergency Room
Myth 4: A Free Market Is the Best Way to Get the Highest Quality Health Insurance for the Lowest Cost
Myth 5: We Just Cannot Afford to Cover Everyone

And I am a physician. A very solidly middle-class physician, I assure you, one who cannot yet afford to buy a house.

I would be perfectly happy with higher taxes and universal coverage, with all docs working by salary as opposed to fee-for-service.

The fee-for-service system with high malpractice premiums causes a lot of waste -- office visits for issues that could be handled over the phone, extra radiology and lab services, unnecessary consultations, writing extra notes in the chart during in-patient visits solely to bill for them.

That being said, a word of advice to the uninsured: Do your best to get some coverage.

Yes, I know, easier said than done, and I have the greatest sympathy for everyone who's struggling to pay for rent, food, and health care at the same time.

Think of it as self-presevation. A day in the ICU starts at $1000 before you add in anything else -- meds, physician care, lines, etc. You get hit by one drunk driver, you've bankrupted your family.

Once you've gone that far, at least you begin to qualify for Medicaid, which is essentially -- ta-dah! -- socialized medicine.

Joey JoJo Junior Shabadoo: WildMonkey: It is not the hospitals nor doctors that's the problem, it's the insurance companies.

The doctors and hospitals are the ones who keep raising rates. So even if their hand is being forced, they certainly aren't innocent here.

/$12 aspirin tablet FTW

and why do you think they have to charge those rates? There is a laundry list of reasons.

1.Deadbeat payers, including those who go to the emergency room get treatment (they cant be turned away) and never pay the bill
2.Malpractice insurance, for those who will sue them for prescribing that aspirin
3.insurance and medicare, who say "we will pay you 70% of the going rate for this service" - gee if we raise the going rate for the service that means I can get more.
4.other increases in overhead, like a client of mine. he is a single doctor practice and has a huge staff, 4 girls JUST to handle the burdensome paperwork requirements for insurance reimbursement and medicare. He also offers health insurance as a benefit to his employees, and even he biatches about how much that costs. who pays for all this stuff? his patients.

We as a community have built this huge burdensome system of overhead into our medical system, and this is why it is so expensive.