Somebody hates America and the military. Just try closing a base and see all the farkward conservatives scream about the loss of cash to their communities...

As a government worker, I'm getting a kick out of this article.

Now step aside as me and my 10%-lower-than-the-private-sector paycheck head to the bank.

floor9: As a government worker, I'm getting a kick out of this article.

Now step aside as me and my 10%-lower-than-the-private-sector paycheck head to the bank.

In CT government employees can retire with full pension after 20 years. I would rather pay them more rather than support a 46 year old retiree.

floor9: Now step aside as me and my 10%-lower-than-the-private-sector paycheck head to the bank.

What do you do?

floor9: As a government worker, I'm getting a kick out of this article.

Now step aside as me and my 10%-lower-than-the-private-sector paycheck head to the bank.

Same here.
My boss always makes the comment that "nobody comes to work for the government to become rich".

/local government, not federal

friend of mine 51 yrs. old, retired from special education, 80% salary for life(admin/director level $120K). Instantly rehired as a consultant, part time, for 55% of old salary. does not loose lifetime health and pension benefits. when i ask him about it, he just gives me a smile and won't talk much.

First, why do we let people retire too early and then expect them to live so long without working?

Because this is the United States of America. We're awesome like that. We've worked hard to get where we are today; shed a lot of blood, shed a lot of tears, and yeah, we've made some mistakes along the way. We've been the leader, we've been the butt of the joke, we've even been the enemy to some. But one thing we're not is a country where you have to push buttons on a register at McDonald's until your dying day.

Second, why do most Americans spend so much of their health care expenditures in the last three months of their life?

Are you serious? Or just farking stupid?

Third, why do so many people pay nothing in federal income taxes?

I'll agree with you here. But let's be real; getting Joe American and his $8,000-a-year salary to cough up 15% in federal income tax isn't going to do anything to help the problem. And that's to say nothing of the unemployed.

Fourth, why is it more profitable to work in the government than to work in the private sector?

Bullshiat. I'm willing to bet the "study" he cited came from a union. My paycheck is below what I'd make in a similar position in the private sector, and while my benefits are ok, they aren't the best I've ever had. I pay about $285 a month for my coverage.

Am I better off than most employees out there? Abso-farking-lutely, and I'm thankful for it.

Am I more profitable? No farking way.

I chose to work in the government -- and in this particular department -- because I like the work that I do. Don't get me wrong; I'm very, very happy here. But don't tell me that I'm ruining the American economy because I'm somehow making far more money than my private-sector counterparts.

Don't get me started on this.

/lives in Cook County

benlonghair: What do you do?

I'm in a very specialized IT position. A bit of server management, a bit of end-user support, a bit of application development, a bit of VBS work, a bit of vendor dealings, a bit of forecasting, and a whole lot of getting a ridiculous number of bloated and unsupported applications to work on a cantankerous steam-powered mainframe from the Civil War era, all on a 19.2k connection.

Don't get me wrong, I love my job. And I'm happy to do it at this pay grade. But to suggest that I'm somehow earning more than an employee doing similar work at a private company is laughably ridiculous.

Yes... pay the government workers that everyone biatches about less money. I'm sure that will improve the services they offer.

floor9: to suggest that I'm somehow earning more than an employee doing similar work at a private company is laughably ridiculous.

I think you have confused "On average" with "You specifically".

floor9: As a government worker, I'm getting a kick out of this article.

Now step aside as me and my 10%-lower-than-the-private-sector paycheck head to the bank.

WTF are you doing on FARK? You should be fired.

Stoj: I think you have confused "On average" with "You specifically".

The article talked about government employees. I'm a government employee. This is an Internet forum. Therefore, I shall speak my mind. QED.

gustakooka: WTF are you doing on FARK? You should be fired.

I'm on my union-mandated fifteen-minute break.

#5.

Mayostard: My boss always makes the comment that "nobody comes to work for the government to become rich".

Exactly--they work for the government because they know they'll never get fired regardless of how incompetent they are

/runs away

floor9: The article talked about government employees. I'm a government employee. This is an Internet forum. Therefore, I shall speak my mind. QED.

You earn less than you would in the private sector, but you don't have to worry about your retirement which can happen at a ridiculously early age.

I'm not hating on you, it's not the workers that are causing the problem, it's the retirement liability.

Stoj: floor9: to suggest that I'm somehow earning more than an employee doing similar work at a private company is laughably ridiculous.

I think you have confused "On average" with "You specifically".

I think the author has confused "all employee average" with "comparable job average".

// Yes, there are no more govt janitors because they're all outsourced, so the average wage of remaining employees will increase...

floor9: Don't get me wrong, I love my job. And I'm happy to do it at this pay grade. But to suggest that I'm somehow earning more than an employee doing similar work at a private company is laughably ridiculous.

i used to work for a large gov't contractor, and its true - our contractors got paid a lot more than the gov't employees they are hired to help.

and i'm not so surprised that this author is blaming the individuals who don't pay income taxes rather than the multi-nationals. i'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that he heads up a lobbyist firm whose clients include PHARMA, Newscorp, and Ford. i wonder how much he paid to get his article printed.

ne2d: Exactly--they work for the government because they know they'll never get fired regardless of how incompetent they are

/runs away

Don't run. It's somewhat true.
I've never heard "not my job" so much in one place, plus nobody can be bothered to f*cking show up on time here. Pisses me off to no end.

KyngNothing: I think the author has confused "all employee average" with "comparable job average".

// Yes, there are no more govt janitors because they're all outsourced, so the average wage of remaining employees will increase...

I would prefer to see the study the author references, as well as the raw data behind it and how it was collected.

I admit my own personal bias on this topic. I see sh*t like this every day in Chicago.

For example, I took this one back in March, about 15 minutes before it started raining again. Apparently we pay people to dry the pavement with leaf blowers.



My tax dollars - let me show them to you.

EvilEgg: You earn less than you would in the private sector, but you don't have to worry about your retirement which can happen at a ridiculously early age.

No, that isn't really true.

Sure, I *can* "retire" at any age, but unless I hang on until 65, I'm going to get a pretty weak cut of my pension. I can technically retire at 60 (for me, that's after 29 years of service; not a bad deal) with "full" benefits, but due to the formula used to calculate pension payouts, I will see less money than if I stick around another five years.

If I retire after 20 years, when I'm 51, I'll lose a metric farkload of my pension.

That's all well and good, floor9. A question for you, though. Compared to private sector, is it easier or harder for you to get fired due to the economy or performance?

With President Obama's aggressive efforts to give more money to more Americans through tax credit refundability, many experts expect that over half of the people will owe nothing or may get back some money from the federal government.

Citation needed?

floor9: Second, why do most Americans spend so much of their health care expenditures in the last three months of their life?

Are you serious? Or just farking stupid?

Actually, there is a valid point there. Huge amounts of our healthcare budget are spent prolonging - just prolonging - at any cost, the lives of people who are beyond recovery and, at best, incapable of even appreciating the fact that they still exist. There's a whole industry devoted to warehousing vegetative, terminal patients - who have absolutely zero quality of life - for as long as medically possible, and collecting insurance and Medicare payments.

Obviously, this just about the most ethically complex and emotionally-charged area imaginable. Here's a recent discussion of some of the issues.

EvilEgg: I'm not hating on you, it's not the workers that are causing the problem, it's the retirement liability.

Yep, its not the salaries but the promised benefits that will be the goose that killed the golden egg.

Stoj: My tax dollars - let me show them to you.

Dude, your taxes are going to bailout Goldman Sachs and give huge corporate salaries to CEOs of Military companies like Halliburton and you're worried about some poor outsourced (likely illegal) schlub making $8 an hour?

Seriously? You're this dumb?

timmy_the_tooth: Dude, your taxes are going to bailout Goldman Sachs and give huge corporate salaries to CEOs of Military companies like Halliburton and you're worried about some poor outsourced (likely illegal) schlub making $8 an hour?

Seriously? You're this dumb?

You are correct. I am utterly incapable of disliking more than one waste of money at a time, especially one that is relevant to the thread. I'll return later when I have adjusted my dollar value threshold of things to be ticked off about.

benlonghair: That's all well and good, floor9. A question for you, though. Compared to private sector, is it easier or harder for you to get fired due to the economy or performance?

Economy? About the same. Performance? Definitely harder. Neither has anything to do with the author's suggestion that I'm getting paid more than the private sector, however.

BuckTurgidson: Huge amounts of our healthcare budget are spent prolonging - just prolonging - at any cost, the lives of people who are beyond recovery and, at best, incapable of even appreciating the fact that they still exist.

True and valid, but this has nothing to do with the suggestion that government workers are overpaid. It's a problem that applies to everyone, not just government workers.

I'm a state government worker, and can state definitively that I could go outside the state and make more money. The trade off is that I have more job security and work in a very relaxed place with a boss who has reasonable expectations of what can be accomplished with the resources we have. Oh... and shorts are acceptable dress when the weather is warm.

/higher education IT drone

Stoj: You are correct. I am utterly incapable of disliking more than one waste of money at a time, especially one that is relevant to the thread. I'll return later when I have adjusted my dollar value threshold of things to be ticked off about.

I'm curious how you know that that man is a city employee? He could be a crazy person. Also, if it's a state building, then almost certainly he's an outsourced worker who works for a company that has a contract with the city. In which case it's not the city who are stupid, but the company who are stupid.

Maybe the city would like to know that the company they are contracting to is doing something dumb. You should contact them, you know, totally blow the lid off this corrupt company and give a good company a chance to get the contract.

Or just keep using that cell-phone cam to post pictures on fark and REALLY stick it to the man! They are going to be so embarrassed when they see this post you made.

You'll probably get the key to the city.

Stoj: For example, I took this one back in March, about 15 minutes before it started raining again. Apparently we pay people to dry the pavement with leaf blowers.

Don't forget that if someone trips on a leaf and falls, guess who they sue. If they don't have someone out there doing this, then they are guilty of not keeping the area clear, even if there wouldn't likely be leaves there. Having a routine where they can point to it and say we maintain this area by doing this, this, and this regularly would help defend against frivolous lawsuits

timmy_the_tooth: I'm curious how you know that that man is a city employee?

I was tipped off by the words "City of Chicago" printed on his vest.

But even if the city hires lazy & inefficient contractors, it is the contracting company's fault & the city is blameless? That's great logic you got there, Lou.

I was posting a real-life example of why I might have a low opinion of many municipal workers, not trying to bring down the city government by posting on Fark.

You're not that dumb, are you?

labman: Don't forget that if someone trips on a leaf and falls, guess who they sue.

That part of the median contains no leafs this time of year, and nobody walks on it because it doesn't get you anywhere.

Stoj: But even if the city hires lazy & inefficient contractors, it is the contracting company's fault & the city is blameless? That's great logic you got there, Lou.

So, you would spend millions of dollars having the city run around "inspecting" work sites and making sure there was absolutely no waste?

That's some pretty good logic, there Lou.

His direct supervisor is responsible which I expect most adults to understand.

Did you report this waste to the city or are you just another loud mouth whiner who doesn't actually give a rip but likes to complain about everything?

timmy_the_tooth: So, you would spend millions of dollars having the city run around "inspecting" work sites and making sure there was absolutely no waste?

The most ridiculous examples of city waste occur on the streets and sidewalks surrounding City Hall. It doesn't take millions of dollars to uncover.

Did you report this waste to the city or are you just another loud mouth whiner who doesn't actually give a rip but likes to complain about everything?

Do you know anything about Chicago government at all? That picture could run on the front page of the Chicago Sun-Times, we'd find out that it is the mayor's brother's wife's nephew, he'd get a paid vacation & then be back there doing the same thing in a week.

I'm surprised you are actually A-OK with things like this. Either that, or you are really just argumentative.

floor9: I'll lose a metric farkload of my pension.

you have a pension in the first place, good luck getting that in the private sector.

Why are the Repubs always trying to see to it that Americans don't make a living wage? You could give a flying fark if someone makes a couple billion a year, but if Joe Schmo makes more than enough to pay for a two room apartment and Ramen you people lose it. Could you be any more out of touch with reality?

Raise the minimum wage; lower the maximum. Society can not function unless you do.

GAT_00: Why are the Repubs always trying to see to it that Americans don't make a living wage?

I'm far from a repub, but I pay huge amount of property and school tax on my home on a dirt road with a well and a septic with no garbage removal because we have so many state employees doing jack shiat or redundant jobs and getting paid lots for it. It farking sucks.

I thought the official line was the government workers were so grossly underpaid that they were inefficient dullards who couldn't survive in the "real" world of for profit companies?

I thought that the market selected only the best and brightest, and then the idiots went to work for the government, because otherwise, they'd starve?

Now, all this time, you come to find out that the government is a cushy, easy, and amazingly well paid option?

Now, come to find out, that all this time, these "dullards" have fallen into the Lucky Ducky of positions thanks to an inattentive electorate?

Who knew?

floor9:

I'm on my union-mandated fifteen-minute break.

This is generally law that you get a break every 4 hours.

My experience is only at the state level, but it goes something like this:

1. Start out at higher wage than you could probably get in private sector
2. Advance in a lock-step fashion, so 5 years later you're making less than you would in private sector
3. But you get much better job security and can retire after 20 years, so who cares?

For most people, assuming they can handle the insanity and the semi-permanent glass ceiling (all genders), this is a great deal.

FTFA: we are paying a lot of money for health care that ends up with the patient dead. If we want to keep from going bankrupt, we have to have a more rational way to look at end-of-life care.


Lazy old folks! They should plan their Alzheimer's and cancer! How dare they get the benefits they are entitled to by their legally-binding contracts signed by both sides after full disclosure and negotiation??

Was this guy clamoring to have his salary and benefits reduced when HE was a government employee? I'm guessin' "no." But, now that he's a lobbyist for FOX and the U.S. Chamber he's all bootstrappy.

Headso: I'm far from a repub, but I pay huge amount of property and school tax on my home on a dirt road with a well and a septic with no garbage removal because we have so many state employees doing jack shiat or redundant jobs and getting paid lots for it. It farking sucks.

I suspect you should be more mad at your county government than your state government. Though you could live in some wacky state where they put all that stuff at the state level, I dunno.

hubiestubert:

Government is always bad. No matter what. Even if they are doing good and we are praising them: we are stupid for not seeing that it should really be a criticism.

For instance- it's good to support the troops- but we wouldn't need troops if we abolished all governments and bowed to the glory of private industries and their peacekeeping abilities. We just need to let companies capitalize the terrorists.

In fact, it is safe to say government is the exact opposite of the Christian god- God is always right and good, while government is always wrong and bad.

Mayostard: Same here.
My boss always makes the comment that "nobody comes to work for the government to become rich".

/local government, not federal

Well hello there, my favorite curious condiment combo! I'm also in local government (county level, basically) and comparing myself to my friends who are similarly aged, educated, & experienced, I would have to say I'm not making nearly as much money as they are.

People sure love to biatch about government workers, but dammitall if we don't keep stuff running that 99% of the population takes for granted 99% of the time. Everyone just expects stuff to get done automatically. If you want something done by a qualified professional, you're going to have to pay them the going price and make the position attractive with insurance and benefits. Incompetence can be found at every level, public and private, and it has nothing to do with gender or age either.

Also, if you guys ever wonder why "customer service" lacks with your average government employee, it's because most of you private sector people treat us like total shiat. You want good customer service? Don't be a dick. Pretty simple, really.


/login earned for the day
//ding

Di Atribe:

Also, if you guys ever wonder why "customer service" lacks with your average government employee, it's because most of you private sector people treat us like total shiat. You want good customer service? Don't be a dick. Pretty simple, really.

But they are allowed to treat private company employees like shiat. Why should government workers be any different? I mean, when there is a line at Starbucks, the employees obviously did it to spite you and deserve to be yelled at and treated like the minimum wage vermin they are. If they were worth a damn, they'd be your boss. Likewise, a line at the Secratary of State's office is because the government is inefficient and worthless. One day we'll privatize everything and life will be a joy to live.

sloppy shoes: But they are allowed to treat private company employees like shiat.

1) No we're not.

2) I'm relatively sure you're a troll, so I'm gonna leave it at that.

Di Atribe: sloppy shoes: But they are allowed to treat private company employees like shiat.

1) No we're not.

2) I'm relatively sure you're a troll, so I'm gonna leave it at that.



1. You should check your sarcasm detector.

2. My comment was in reference to the movement to encourage positive customer service no matter the customer's attitude. The customer is never wrong.

I don't pretend to know how competitive every government worker is in comparison to private sector counterparts, but every single government worker I've ever heard express an opinion on the subject says that he's underpaid compared to the private sector.

Over time, this simply can't be true or even mostly true. I suspect that there are serious differences in the supposedly comparable private sector jobs. One person may choose to work for less money in a specific situation. Large groups of people do not continue to work for less money over the long term if they truly have higher-paying options (that are actually comparable).

So are we employing underqualified people? Are we defining the government jobs to require too little? Are we just flat overpaying (and by "overpaying" I mean to include pensions and benefits)? My suspicion is that none of these tells the whole story. Even the ideal government job would probably be perceived as having less chance for advancement than a comaparable private sector job. Except when it might lead to much higher compensation as a private sector consultant dealing with one's former government agency (a worrying outcome, surely). Govenrment also requires different metrics of success for many of its activities than simply return of value to shareholders. Therefore, its employees cannot always be fairly judged by comparing cost to production. I'd be willing to bet that we couls save significant money by identifying inefficiencies in government employment, but I also bet that the solution would be a LOT more complicated than simply paying government workers less money.

Yeah, this is a fine start, but what we really need is to repeal all those oppressive safety and child labor laws. Imagine how cheap things would be without these unduly restrictive requirements weighing down the total awesomeness that is capitalism!