Leaving aside the whole "fair trial" thing (a value it is most important to protect where scumbags like Stevens are concerned for the safety of all of us who aren't scumbags), those jurors aren't qualified to judge that. Among of the prosecution's major misdeeds (for which they may go to prison themselves) were withholding exculpatory evidence and using business records they knew were false as evidence.

No matter how you feel about Stevens, that trial was unjust. And the jurors' opinions on the subject are biased as a result. The NY Times ought to know that.

MuadDib: Leaving aside the whole "fair trial" thing (a value it is most important to protect where scumbags like Stevens are concerned for the safety of all of us who aren't scumbags), those jurors aren't qualified to judge that. Among of the prosecution's major misdeeds (for which they may go to prison themselves) were withholding exculpatory evidence and using business records they knew were false as evidence.

No matter how you feel about Stevens, that trial was unjust. And the jurors' opinions on the subject are biased as a result. The NY Times ought to know that.

Logical arguments? In my politics tab? Unpossible

Like Ayers?

I wish the law would come down on him like a dump-truck full of bricks

NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

I came here to say this!

You can be guilty and not commit the crime. You can be innocent (legally speaking) and have committed the crime.

/Armchair lawyer out

MuadDib: ...those jurors aren't qualified to judge that. Among of the prosecution's major misdeeds (for which they may go to prison themselves) were withholding exculpatory evidence and using business records they knew were false as evidence.

No matter how you feel about Stevens, that trial was unjust. And the jurors' opinions on the subject are biased as a result. The NY Times ought to know that.

Came here to say this, but it looks like you've already got it covered. Nicely done.

Is he guilty? Yes.

Does he have the right to a fair trial to find him thusly? Yes.

kleppe: You can be innocent (legally speaking) and have committed the crime.

Huh? Innocence is defined by lack of commission. I think you mean, "You can be not guilty and have committed the crime."

NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

Nah, more like the time your mom got off when they tried her for prostitution. That was prosecutorial misconduct too wasn't it?

/fark Ayers, what did he get elected to?

NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

When Ayers becomes a senator feel free to call for his impeachment, and start calling the voters of chicago a bunch of morons. until then stfu about him; he's irrelevant. you dumb turducken.

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

I came here to say this!

Well, as usual, you're late. (Remember the train - brain thing?)
Now go away.

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: I came here to say this!

Well, I think that was the general consensus. Not that he was innocent, but that the Bush DOJ farked up so bad the conviction was super-farked and the case was not salvageable.

Was said tube connected to a larger series of tubes? Because he could end up anywhere!

*Shudders at the prospect of being dumped head first into 4chan*

MuadDib: Leaving aside the whole "fair trial" thing (a value it is most important to protect where scumbags like Stevens are concerned for the safety of all of us who aren't scumbags), those jurors aren't qualified to judge that. Among of the prosecution's major misdeeds (for which they may go to prison themselves) were withholding exculpatory evidence and using business records they knew were false as evidence.

No matter how you feel about Stevens, that trial was unjust. And the jurors' opinions on the subject are biased as a result. The NY Times ought to know that.


Sure his trial was not done by the rules. But that doesn't change the fact that he accepted gifts in violation of the rules, and he is guilty of that. If anyone reads the case carefully, the defense COULD NOT rebut the fact that Mr Stevens took gifts illegally. PERIOD.

So while the prosecutors failed in providing evidence to the defense that COULD have HELPED at least "mitigate" the effect of the offenses, it still doesn't change the fact he was guilty of the offenses charged.

But good nonetheless the prosecutors will get their peepee's slapped.

Yes, he's guilty... And in order to get that verdict you had a good liberal on a witch hunt breaking the rules just to "Get Him".

I do hope he's proud for becoming what he sought to destroy.

I think everybody knows he's guilty as hell (as is pretty much every other politician in DC). Still gets to have a fair trial though.

NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

Exactly like Ayers. Except that Ayers pretty much admitted it and said that he regretted he didn't do more.

Scerpes: NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

Exactly like Ayers. Except that Ayers pretty much admitted it and said that he regretted he didn't do more.

Winner. Thread Closed. Since when does trying to kill people equal taking illegal money?

randomjsa: Yes, he's guilty... And in order to get that verdict you had a good liberal on a witch hunt breaking the rules just to "Get Him".

I do hope he's proud for becoming what he sought to destroy.

Witch hunt?

I suppose that explains the other ten convictions (so far) from this investigation, eh? They're all just victims of a witch hunt....

"but that the Bush DOJ farked up so bad the conviction was super-farked and the case was not salvageable."

Yep, pretty convenient, don'cha think?

xtragrind: Scerpes: NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

Exactly like Ayers. Except that Ayers pretty much admitted it and said that he regretted he didn't do more.

Winner. Thread Closed. Since when does trying to kill people equal taking illegal money?

Ayers didn't try to kill people, just blow up buildings (They called before they set off any bombs).

Stevens was a Senator and was taking money illegally from lobbiests, meaning he was selling out our government. I'd put Stevens up against the wall long before I'd put Ayers up there.

Mr. Anon: xtragrind: Scerpes: NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

Exactly like Ayers. Except that Ayers pretty much admitted it and said that he regretted he didn't do more.

Winner. Thread Closed. Since when does trying to kill people equal taking illegal money?

Ayers didn't try to kill people, just blow up buildings (They called before they set off any bombs).

Stevens was a Senator and was taking money illegally from lobbiests, meaning he was selling out our government. I'd put Stevens up against the wall long before I'd put Ayers up there.

Then you're a partisan douche. Ayers has admitted his misdeeds. While he may not have intend to kill anyone, his wanton disregard for human life is far worse than Stevens alleged crimes.

Prof. Joshua Dressler of the Ohio State University law school said, however, that the failure to be convicted in a criminal trial does not, by itself, confer innocence on someone.

I sure didn't hear a lot of this kind of talk when Bill Clinton skated on impeachment.

And what a shock that a bunch of jurors in Washington DC still think that a White conservative is guilty regardless of whatever prosecutorial abuse occurred.

Scerpes: Mr. Anon: xtragrind: Scerpes: NYZooMan: Like Ayers?

Exactly like Ayers. Except that Ayers pretty much admitted it and said that he regretted he didn't do more.

Winner. Thread Closed. Since when does trying to kill people equal taking illegal money?

Ayers didn't try to kill people, just blow up buildings (They called before they set off any bombs).

Stevens was a Senator and was taking money illegally from lobbiests, meaning he was selling out our government. I'd put Stevens up against the wall long before I'd put Ayers up there.

Then you're a partisan douche. Ayers has admitted his misdeeds. While he may not have intend to kill anyone, his wanton disregard for human life is far worse than Stevens alleged crimes.

I'd put taking bribes and being a US Senator as being worse than killing a few people. When a few people die, it is a tragedy, no doubt. When government is sold to he highest bidder, then that negatively effects the entire country.

I would call Madoff's crimes as worse than those of a murderer aswell.