That's absolutely true, by the way. I was a respectable human being once.

It's great to know that environment doesn't play a hand in this at all.

Really? Because I didn't start avoiding harm until I was hurt a bunch of times.

It's a good thing these scientists didn't name the Smurfs.

/Intellectually Proficient Smurf agrees

AtticusFinchEsq: That's absolutely true, by the way. I was a respectable human being once.

I never was.

Fark attorneys thread!

/medius, esq.

LegacyDL:
It's great to know that environment doesn't play a hand in this at all.

Not necessarily. There's a lot of environment going on before you are born. Health, behavior, and diet of the mother, for example. Even the state of the fertilized egg can be considered "environment".

medius: Fark attorneys thread!

/medius, esq.

Indeed. And pray tell, good Sir, why is it that sharks refuse to eat lawyers?

Who says lawyers aren't born that way?

Basic personality traits are genetic, then?

One thing though - the frame of the car doesn't determine how it performs on the road, Same applies to the basic personality traits.

/ I wonder what traits died out from Darwinism.

Scientists say basic personality types, "novelty seeking", "harm avoidance", "reward dependence", and "persistence" are all decided at birth. "Attorney" is something you grow into

No duh!

ToxicMunkee: Really? Because I didn't start avoiding harm until I was hurt a bunch of times.

That doesn't prove anything. You have a predisposition to avoid harm when it is presented. Sort of like birds have a predisposition to fly, but they don't until they fall out of the nest.

Maus III: why is it that sharks refuse to eat lawyers?

people believe that it's professional courtesy, but, really, our flesh is more toxic than radioactive sewer fugu

iollow: Not necessarily. There's a lot of environment going on before you are born. Health, behavior, and diet of the mother, for example. Even the state of the fertilized egg can be considered "environment".

Bad reporting is bad reporting.

This study doesn't show anything about personality being decided at birth. Rather that changes in brain volume in specific areas of the brain are related to personality characteristics. Many factors (genetics are a large part but certainly not the whole story) affect brain growth, plasticity and development.

If genetics were the whole story you would expect monozygotic twins to have identical personalities. They don't.

As someone who has studied quite a few of these brain areas (mesolimbic dopaminergic pathway, OFC, PFC etc) I'm getting a kick out of this article.

Personality types are "predetermined" and immutable but behavior and specific actions(especially the morally relevant ones) are totally subject to the actor's will (merely at varying degrees of difficultyat varying degrees of difficulty).

Thorndyke Barnhard: Personality types are "predetermined" and immutable but behavior and specific actions(especially the morally relevant ones) are totally subject to the actor's will (merely at varying degrees of difficultyat varying degrees of difficulty).

No. Personality types are predisposed, not predetermined.

jfsimpson:
This study doesn't show anything about personality being decided at birth. Rather that changes in brain volume in specific areas of the brain are related to personality characteristics.

Came here to post this, as the study is not a longitudinal study of people whose brain regions were mapped as newborns and those maps correlated to their adult personality types. A study like that could be said to show that personality is determined at birth.

What this study actually says is that in adults, personality types correlate with the brain maps...it doesn't go into whether the brains had the structural characteristics at birth, or after years of use.

Well, this explains my negative attitude. I am biologically pre-disposed to be this passive-aggressive.

Am I the only one significantly bothered by the use of AT BIRTH?

Wouldn't it be AT CONCEPTION?

Using at birth makes me think of the opening scene of Fallout3.

CrispFlows: Basic personality traits are genetic, then?


That does not follow.

Even if further studies showed that the basic personality types were correlated with brain structure at birth, brain structure at birth is affected by the prenatal environment as well as (likely) by genetic and epigenetic factors.

So how does this account for people who fall into more than one of these four categories?

This is not my troll account: Even if further studies showed that the basic personality types were correlated with brain structure at birth, brain structure at birth is affected by the prenatal environment as well as (likely) by genetic and epigenetic factors.

That's even assuming that the brain structures we're looking at correlate with personality factors, that these personality factors are valid constructs and that there are no other brain areas that mediate these types of personality.

Research on all three of those lines are pretty good, but it's definitely very far away from accurately mapping personality to the brain.

Again, the best studies looking at heredity and personality are twin studies. They're more parsimonious because they don't have the intermediate variable of looking at behavior then the brain (they just need to look at behavior).

i'm pretty sure I am [or was] in the "harm avoidance" category.

...Long story.

accujimmy: Wouldn't it be AT CONCEPTION?

You don't even have a brain at conception, much less a personality type.

I should also mention that the study itself is quite good and is interesting.

The problem is just the reporting of it; the reporter clearly doesn't know anything about this type of science.

CrispFlows: / I wonder what traits died out from Darwinism.

That would be the "large carnivore taunting" personality type. It does, however show up occasionally. The latest appearance was in Berlin.

The polar bear won.

I like the four categories:

1. You do stupid things without thinking
2. You're a chicken
3. You can't comprehend the idea of moderation
4. You are a wonderful, valuable contributor to society.

Yeah. My personality started to get this way about ... second year of law school? Once you know how to win an argument with bad but plausible logic, it's hard to stop.

I wanted to be a welfare leech or lying-assed bastard politician when I grew up, but it just wasn't in the genetic cards. :(

refrigeratorelf: I like the four categories:

1. You do stupid things without thinking
2. You're a chicken
3. You can't comprehend the idea of moderation
4. You are a wonderful, valuable contributor to society.

Assuming these are equally distributed, it would indeed confirm my suspicion that 25% of society make it possible for the other 75% to live as they do.

jfsimpson: Thorndyke Barnhard: Personality types are "predetermined" and immutable but behavior and specific actions(especially the morally relevant ones) are totally subject to the actor's will (merely at varying degrees of difficultyat varying degrees of difficulty).

No. Personality types are predisposed, not predetermined.

Hence the scare quotes. That's what I meant.

Oh, goody. Another excuse for people to throw up their hands and say "I can't be a better person! I'm just naturally a jerk! I can't help it, blah blah blah."

The legal arguments for and against prison will be pretty funny when we get to the point where biology invalidates free will.

Emily912: Oh, goody. Another excuse for people to throw up their hands and say "I can't be a better person! I'm just naturally a jerk! I can't help it, blah blah blah."

This is exactly why I made my earlier comment. How you interpret the evidence/data and what you infer from it is your responsibility, and this particular interpretation doesn't necessarily follow from these facts.

Why does that japanimation picture of the guy pointing come up in every lawyer article?

Its not a lolcat, so it can't apply to every situation. It doesn't seem funny or relevant at all.

Someone please explain or I'll have to keep posting this picture of Johnny Cochran pointing in every thread as well.

eskimeaux: Why does that japanimation picture of the guy pointing come up in every lawyer article?

That's Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney.

eskimeaux: Why does that japanimation picture of the guy pointing come up in every lawyer article?

Its not a lolcat, so it can't apply to every situation. It doesn't seem funny or relevant at all.

Someone please explain or I'll have to keep posting this picture of Johnny Cochran pointing in every thread as well.

They left out 'toxic screaming Republican zealot'- list fails.

This is either fascinating science, or the new phrenology. I hope it's the science thing. Yay science.

CrispFlows: Basic personality traits are genetic, then?

At birth != genetic.

There is stuff going on during those nine months.
Mysterious stuff.

accujimmy: Wouldn't it be AT CONCEPTION?

Why? What evidence has been brought to your attention that would cause you to come to that conclusion?

AtticusFinchEsq:
That's Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney.

This explains nothing. Johnny Cochran it is.

vdantev: They left out 'toxic screaming Republican zealot'- list fails.

No, I think toxic screaming Republican zealot falls under category 2. "Oh No! The gheys!" "Oh No! The terrerists!" "Trust the Corporate infrastructure, it keeps us safe!" "We must spend billions on Defense or everyone will attack us!"

Die Kunst Der Fuge: vdantev: They left out 'toxic screaming Republican zealot'- list fails.

No, I think toxic screaming Republican zealot falls under category 2. "Oh No! The gheys!" "Oh No! The terrerists!" "Trust the Corporate infrastructure, it keeps us safe!" "We must spend billions on Defense or everyone will attack us!"


And don't even start on the gay, non-shareholding freemarket terrorists....

johnny cochrane is dead.

I was born smurf blue and had to be revived. I spent the first several days in neonatal ICU with a mohawk and scalp IVs. That said, I admit I'm curious what these scientists would classify me as.

/beyond loud stubborn biatchy nerd

Ringshadow: I was born smurf blue and had to be revived. I spent the first several days in neonatal ICU with a mohawk and scalp IVs. That said, I admit I'm curious what these scientists would classify me as.

/beyond loud stubborn biatchy nerd


You sound like my ex wife.

Do you have an eating disorder like she does?

The_Time_Master:


You sound like my ex wife.

Do you have an eating disorder like she does?

Uh, no, not as such. I absolutely love to eat, I just try to only eat as much as I need. I've been a size four for... eight years? Maybe longer, I don't know, I haven't really grown since middle school.