Excellent. Change I can believe in.

feckingmorons: Excellent. Change I can believe in.

Fecking moron.

Right wing, left wing, Republican, Democrat....just labels used to distract us all.

Inside the beltway, outside the beltway. that's all that matters.

I still wonder why the right is so upset about Obama if he's just like them... odd.

Mordant: I still wonder why the right is so upset about Obama if he's just like them... odd.

Because Obama will throw HIS enemies into jail, not THEIR enemies.

same method, different targets.

tchamber: feckingmorons: Excellent. Change I can believe in.

Fecking moron.

Yes indeed you are.

Weaver95: Mordant: I still wonder why the right is so upset about Obama if he's just like them... odd.

Because Obama will throw HIS enemies into jail, not THEIR enemies.

same method, different targets.

except that this seems to be about how Obama is keeping the same people imprisoned that Bush did, hence the lack of "change or hope".

Which I guess makes a nice change of pace from hearing a constant litany of ways that Obama is ending all life on earth for Americans and destroying everything the country ever accomplished.

That filthy lib bastard is just constantly screwing us by doing things differently and by doing things the same... when he's not just sitting around not doing things at all (which is also bad).

Republicans, Democrats...same sh*t, different piles. The only change is the name on the door.

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

Weaver95: Right wing, left wing, Republican, Democrat....just labels used to distract us all.

Inside the beltway, outside the beltway. that's all that matters.

It's not like once you get someone from outside the beltway inside the beltway they are no longer outside the beltway, right? That would be silly.

Weaver95: Because Obama will throw HIS enemies into jail, not THEIR enemies.

same method, different targets.

Oh please. Obama is doing this as a concession to the CIA. It sucks and I hope it's simply a case of choosing his battles widely. He's already fighting battles on twelve fronts and he knows he can't win them all. It might be better to sit on this for a year or two until he has built up sufficient capital to attack this issue again. I'm not happy about this at all, but to compare Obama to Bush in that sense is just silly. If this is still happening in a year or two, maybe I'll have to change my opinion, but for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

feckingmorons: Excellent. Change I can believe in.

So you like Obama now, right? You can't have it both ways.

here is the thing about political extremes: They are different in ideology, virtually identical in practice. Here are my two favorite examples:

Example 1: The Liberal Individualist extreme of politics is Anarchy, a complete lack of governmental regulation, which in practice is virtually identical to Libertarianism, the Conservative Individualist extreme.

Example 2: The Liberal Populist extreme of politics is Socialism (or Communism), a fully nationalized society where all business is government regulated, which is virtually identical to the Conservative Populist extreme, Fascism (or Authoritarianism).

/prove me wrong

How else do you expect the messiah to send people to re-education facilities once he has his nationwide civilian police force patrolling the streets?

and underscored how dangerous is the Bush/Obama claim that the President has the right to abduct people from around the world

Oh, the ironing. The sweet, sweet ironing.

Damn. He pissed me off on FEMA and now he's pissing me off again. I'm 54 years old and I've been pissed off at the government for 50 of them. It's okay, my understanding is that in my dotage, I shall get 4 more years of ignorant bliss. Happy trails.

Weaver95: Right wing, left wing, Republican, Democrat....just labels used to distract us all.

Inside the beltway, outside the beltway. that's all that matters.

If you've got an idea for a better system, now's the time.

I'm guessing this issue is just a tad more complicated than internet journalists and OUTRAGED message board netizens think it is.

Considering that progress is being made (closing Guantanamo, black sites, etc.), I'm guessing that the Obama DOJ is still unraveling the giant clusterfark that was 8 years of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

LordZorch: How else do you expect the messiah to send people to re-education facilities once he has his nationwide civilian police force patrolling the streets?

^Ditto

Mentat: Weaver95: Because Obama will throw HIS enemies into jail, not THEIR enemies.

same method, different targets.

Oh please. Obama is doing this as a concession to the CIA. It sucks and I hope it's simply a case of choosing his battles widely. He's already fighting battles on twelve fronts and he knows he can't win them all. It might be better to sit on this for a year or two until he has built up sufficient capital to attack this issue again. I'm not happy about this at all, but to compare Obama to Bush in that sense is just silly. If this is still happening in a year or two, maybe I'll have to change my opinion, but for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Exactly how many more of these do you get before you guys have to admit that "yeah, shiat, turns out he IS just another farking politician..." seriously, I'm really not knocking the guy all that much - many of his policies are not my cup of tea but I am just wondering exactly how far down the "true politician" path he'd have to go...

Didn't we already do this yesterday?

Weaver95: Right wing, left wing, Republican, Democrat....just labels used to distract us all.

Inside the beltway, outside the beltway. that's all that matters.

This.

Tranquil Hegemony: Didn't we already do this yesterday?

man, groundhog's day is good movie.

MorrisBird: Damn. He pissed me off on FEMA and now he's pissing me off again. I'm 54 years old and I've been pissed off at the government for 50 of them. It's okay, my understanding is that in my dotage, I shall get 4 more years of ignorant bliss. Happy trails.

If it helps any, I do think that Obama has a LOT of ground to cover. It's safe to say that he's inherited a metric assload of toxic waste from previous adminstrations and that, while i'm sure he's trying his best, not everything is going to be attended to right away. It might be that Obama merely hasn't had the time to dedicate to addressing this issue. God knows, the distraction of having to deal with an economy that seems hell bent on imploding itself has to be quite a time sink all by itself.

Not to mention the fact that it would not surprise me to learn that the CIA (and perhaps other intelligence organizations) 'forgot' to keep Obama in the loop as to the details of their operations.

Weaver95: If it helps any

Thank you.

Mentat: Weaver95: Because Obama will throw HIS enemies into jail, not THEIR enemies.

same method, different targets.

Oh please. Obama is doing this as a concession to the CIA. It sucks and I hope it's simply a case of choosing his battles widely. He's already fighting battles on twelve fronts and he knows he can't win them all. It might be better to sit on this for a year or two until he has built up sufficient capital to attack this issue again. I'm not happy about this at all, but to compare Obama to Bush in that sense is just silly. If this is still happening in a year or two, maybe I'll have to change my opinion, but for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

/snicker

Does anyone consider that maybe he knows stuff now he didn't know then?

What's the upshot for the Administration if that is not the case?

This is from the Clinton Machine working on a case against Obama so Hillbill can run against Obama in 2012 chanting A VOTE FOR OBAMA IS A VOTE FOR FOUR MORE YEARS OF BUSH POLITICS. The election campaigning for 2012 is already in full force.

Of course, if she were to win, she would do the exact same thing everyone else does. In other words, the leaders are doing the right thing or what seems right or the best choice the best they can, but whoever is in opposition will try to twist and confuse the public to vote for them by vilifying their opponent. Welcome to all politics.

If you don't do your own homework and make up your own mind, the politicians will make it up for you and you will just be one of the sheeple.

How the hell does Obama expect to fix anything when he's vacationing on his ranch all the damn time?

modestlivinglegend: This is from the Clinton Machine working on a case against Obama so Hillbill can run against Obama in 2012 chanting A VOTE FOR OBAMA IS A VOTE FOR FOUR MORE YEARS OF BUSH POLITICS. The election campaigning for 2012 is already in full force.

Of course, if she were to win, she would do the exact same thing everyone else does. In other words, the leaders are doing the right thing or what seems right or the best choice the best they can, but whoever is in opposition will try to twist and confuse the public to vote for them by vilifying their opponent. Welcome to all politics.

If you don't do your own homework and make up your own mind, the politicians will make it up for you and you will just be one of the sheeple.

Did someone at an Alex Jones site link to this page?

MorrisBird: It's okay, my understanding is that in my dotage, I shall get 4 more years of ignorant bliss.



/might actually be obscure
//even for Fark

modestlivinglegend: This is from the Clinton Machine working on a case against Obama so Hillbill can run against Obama in 2012 chanting A VOTE FOR OBAMA IS A VOTE FOR FOUR MORE YEARS OF BUSH POLITICS. The election campaigning for 2012 is already in full force.

...enjoy your four years in the white room withe padded walls, cause boy you ain't got too many marbles left.

eynonmcwanker: /snicker

A four star snicker:

Weaver95: Right wing, left wing, Republican, Democrat....just labels used to distract us all.

Inside the beltway, outside the beltway. that's all that matters.

This point cannot be stressed enough.

Just go back to sleep, America. That's what they want you to do. Go have a Xanax or a six pack, watch American Idol and go back to sleep.

MorrisBird: Weaver95: If it helps any

Thank you.

your welcome.

I don't agree with Obama and I think he's going to go the wrong direction on a lot of issues....but he does seem to honestly believe in his plan(s), which puts him ahead of the Republicans. I'm also a realist - there is just no way Obama can fix all the things that are screwed up in D.C. He could be there for decades and still he'd have work to do.

Weaver95: MorrisBird: Damn. He pissed me off on FEMA and now he's pissing me off again. I'm 54 years old and I've been pissed off at the government for 50 of them. It's okay, my understanding is that in my dotage, I shall get 4 more years of ignorant bliss. Happy trails.

If it helps any, I do think that Obama has a LOT of ground to cover. It's safe to say that he's inherited a metric assload of toxic waste from previous adminstrations and that, while i'm sure he's trying his best, not everything is going to be attended to right away. It might be that Obama merely hasn't had the time to dedicate to addressing this issue. God knows, the distraction of having to deal with an economy that seems hell bent on imploding itself has to be quite a time sink all by itself.

Not to mention the fact that it would not surprise me to learn that the CIA (and perhaps other intelligence organizations) 'forgot' to keep Obama in the loop as to the details of their operations.

True, but Obama does need to devote at least some time to rectifying some of the more egregious abuses of the Bush years. It was a part of his campaign, it's very clearly what those of us who voted for him expected, and we should hold him to it.

Now, it's entirely possible that there's some kind of "other shoe dropping" that happens at a new President's first security briefing, some piece of "ticking bomb" information given, theretofore unknown to a lowly Senator, that makes all these actions seem utterly necessary. Or perhaps it's, as Bill Hicks theorized, "footage of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before." But I doubt it. I think it's much more likely that continuing the policies of the past is preferable to the difficult decision of what to actually do with these prisoners.

Nonetheless, it's a decision that has to be made. America stands for more than just property rights. Our basic freedoms aren't restricted to our citizens, or even those on our shores. Those in our custody must be treated the same way an American accused of a crime should be treated. We need to be better than this, or what is it we're trying to preserve, exactly?

So essentially, I cannot agree with Weaver95's defense of Barack Obama.

/wait, what?

No jokes or excuses: I voted for Obama and am generally pleased, but this is indeed one area that I'm not happy with. Executive power needs to go down, not up.

Weaver95: He could be there for decades and still he'd have work to do.

I smell a campaign slogan coming on.

/eeks

GaryPDX: Just go back to sleep, America. That's what they want you to do. Go have a Xanax or a six pack, watch American Idol and go back to sleep.

That's been the Republican mantra for years.

Milkbeer: Um, these are basically clinton's CIA renditions folks.....this article says thsi started in 2006 it just went from clinton's version which was used for Al Quada and they could put them anywhere in the world, Bush centralized it in guantanamo, now this.....

The only thing is, that democrats are too useful of idiots to realize that this is exactly why they called Bush a war criminal.

That can't be true. It's a well known fact that Clinton...sorry...Klintoon did nothing about Al Quada.

Mentat: Weaver95: Because Obama will throw HIS enemies into jail, not THEIR enemies.

same method, different targets.

Oh please. Obama is doing this as a concession to the CIA. It sucks and I hope it's simply a case of choosing his battles widely. He's already fighting battles on twelve fronts and he knows he can't win them all. It might be better to sit on this for a year or two until he has built up sufficient capital to attack this issue again. I'm not happy about this at all, but to compare Obama to Bush in that sense is just silly. If this is still happening in a year or two, maybe I'll have to change my opinion, but for now I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Listen, I voted for Obama, I like him, and I do, ultimately believe in him. Given the fact that the man hasn't been in office 6 months yet, and that the key issue he's been dealing with since the beginning of his term has been the financial meltdown, I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt on this as much as anyone. But I'm still upset as hell. Somethings are just wrong, and our treatment of detainees in foriegn prisons is just wrong, no matter who it is. It wouldn't take much to change the policy on this, so I see no reason why he couldn't and shouldn't do it now. Depending on how the economy goes, he may not have much political capital 1-2 years from now. His approval rating is still well above 50%, and I doubt it would take much of a hit if he reversed the Bush Doctrine on this matter. Hell, he didn't take alot of grief (in general, not just amongst the rabid right) when he started talking about closing Gitmo and moving detainees to the US. There was some grumbling but generally people have percieved this as a return to law and order, and an elevation of our nation to the 'high road'. I see no reason why a similar move on the part of the Afghan prison would be drastically different.

I guess what I'm saying is: don't be an apologist. We've lived through 8 years of having people sucking off the President and never even considering to criticize him. Obama said he was going to be different. Most, if not all, of those who voted for him did not honestly expect him to be perfect, or to make mistakes. We expected it, and now he just needs to stand up and take his lumps like a man befitting his position. And if he honestly believes in what he is doing, then let him put forth his own argument as to why it needs to be done.

Denial_of_Death: No jokes or excuses: I voted for Obama and am generally pleased, but this is indeed one area that I'm not happy with. Executive power needs to go down, not up.

Everything in the Government is going up, that's what Liberals do. Just wait until Health Care, they will be telling you how to live and breath.

GaryPDX: Weaver95: He could be there for decades and still he'd have work to do.

I smell a campaign slogan coming on.

/eeks

I think Obama is going to be defined by his sucess (or failure) with the economy. I strongly suspect that the abuses of the 'war on terror' will be largely forgotten by the public.

After all, we've been largely ignorant of the 'war on drugs' abuses. We're used to the tactics now.

If enemy combatants cannot be denied due process, then there is no possible scenario that American citizens can be denied it.

And this bunch is intent on silencing their opposition.

I am very disturbed by this news, and I hope the President comes out clearly to keep his DoJ dogs at bay. I didn't vote for eight more years of "same old shiat, different dude".

Who the fark is Al Quada?

As a conservative, I resent the actions of the Bush administration with regard to destroying civil liberties and increasing the government/executive branch. I also resent these actions as being labeled "conservative" because they clearly are not in the spirit of true conservatism. Neocon Republicans are not real conservatives. The difference between a neocon Republican and a big government Democrat is purely nominal. Bush may be responsible for destroying not just the Republican party but also the conservative philosophy. In the minds of the electorate, he has fundamentally changed the definition of conservatism.

Conservative ideas did not die. Conservatives ideas were not rejected. They were twisted and perverted into something totally non-conservative.

Republicans need to clean their backyard of neocons. America needs legitimate conservative representation. Republicans can't just claim to be conservative now merely to be contrary. They have to live by those principles whether or not they're in power.

The fact that Obama is continuing where Bush left off should not be a surprise to anyone. They're both big government guys, and they're both executives.

I wonder what sort of tear in the space-time continuum would erupt if Weaver95 and GaryPDX were to occupy the same space at the same time.

Klingon Penis: I wonder what sort of tear in the space-time continuum would erupt if Weaver95 and GaryPDX were to occupy the same space at the same time.

I think Weav and I general agree on most stuff. I'm almost as crotchety has he is too.:).lol.

Weaver95: After all, we've been largely ignorant of the 'war on drugs' abuses. We're used to the tactics now.

Some of us have been paying attention to that. Thus, the constant annoyance.