woohoo?

what, the obvious tag on holiday ??

Since subby didn't mention that it's a Republican, this was obviously a Democrat.

FTFA:

Ardo said the DEP request would have required the agency to photocopy more than 3,500 pages.

"That's as big as a Dumpster," Ardo said. "We were offering the requester an opportunity to review all 3,500 pages and copy the ones they believed were relevant."

Uh no.

While I appreciate that you have to set some limits on what bills the government is willing to pick up to make records available to the public, that argument is complete BS.

Anything worth reading in the public record of a state office is going to run well past 1000 pages to begin with, and 3500 pages is just a file box or two worth of paper, not "a dumpster" size lot. That seems like a typical size for any major legal case, development deal, or anything substantial that someone would like to request.

Sure, make them pay for copying and S&H, but don't deny them access based on exaggerated nonsense.

Sounds like mayor Nichols here in Seattle. Doesn't like that city council budget meetings are open so her turns them into private "one on one" sessions. You are a complete joke Nichols

Pay for copying shipping and handling and the time necessary to do such a task. Unless you create a bureau specifically who does nothing but copy records for the public. Contrary to popular belief I hear some government personnel have better things to do than search for your documents. (The problem with creating a department specifically to do that of course lies in the fact that they wouldn't know what the heck they're looking for or at.)

While the law says...

This lady sounds like a power-hungry asswipe. The part about "fax me the documents" vs. "come see them and see what you want"... Nobody wants to take time out of their day to ensure 3500 pages are correctly transmitted. Whereas she feels since she said so, they should comply...

I dunno, I mixed on this one.

Not Slick Eddy! I'm shocked!

deadsanta: Sure, make them pay for copying and S&H, but don't deny them access based on exaggerated nonsense.

There's a hiring freeze in Pennsylvania, and every department is understaffed. Having staff photocopy 3500 pages and mail them is going to shut down the government.

If you still have the files on computer, publish them to PDF as you go. Then email them to the public records person who posts them to the web.

Problem solved.

Larry Mahnken: deadsanta: Sure, make them pay for copying and S&H, but don't deny them access based on exaggerated nonsense.

There's a hiring freeze in Pennsylvania, and every department is understaffed. Having staff photocopy 3500 pages and mail them is going to shut down the government.


OK, so say that; Don't make up stories about how unreasonable the request is, because that's a pretty small order for anything related to government documentation, is all I'm saying.

deadsanta: Larry Mahnken: deadsanta: Sure, make them pay for copying and S&H, but don't deny them access based on exaggerated nonsense.

There's a hiring freeze in Pennsylvania, and every department is understaffed. Having staff photocopy 3500 pages and mail them is going to shut down the government.


OK, so say that; Don't make up stories about how unreasonable the request is, because that's a pretty small order for anything related to government documentation, is all I'm saying.

Actually, that's exactly what the department said -- that they don't have the staff to do all of that work.

While I certainly appreciate and applaud the "open records" idea, another concern of mine is the sheer volume of material that is passed into law every day.

I've forgotten the figure, I hazily recall something on the order of 30 pages/day of law (I'd appreciate it if someone could provide a citation for a figure). We are beholden to all national and even other states' laws when we travel within the country. It seems to me that we are either reaching or are already past the point where a citizen can't reasonably be expected to know and consequently obey every law of the land. What happens then?

Remove all Republicans: deadsanta: that's a pretty small order for anything related to government documentation, is all I'm saying.

No, I think that's huge. If your request doesn't end up with more than a dozen pages, it's too broad. Nobody should have the right to bother the government about stuff like this. In times like this, we need our government officials focused on saving us, not on wasting time for menial things like this.


In that case, then I think the government has the responsibility to increase the accessibility to the data without bankrupting themselves or creating a situation where the public doesn't actually have transparency because no-one will actually process any requests.

You know the easy and cheap way to do all that?

Put it all online.

Scan once, dump on server, and you're done.
I'm a genius, deadsanta for gov!

thereadlines: While I certainly appreciate and applaud the "open records" idea, another concern of mine is the sheer volume of material that is passed into law every day.

I've forgotten the figure, I hazily recall something on the order of 30 pages/day of law (I'd appreciate it if someone could provide a citation for a figure). We are beholden to all national and even other states' laws when we travel within the country. It seems to me that we are either reaching or are already past the point where a citizen can't reasonably be expected to know and consequently obey every law of the land. What happens then?

A police state probably. That's what happens when damn near anything involving laws goes terribly wrong.

Remove all Republicans: deadsanta: You know the easy and cheap way to do all that?

Put it all online.

Scan once, dump on server, and you're done.

Do you know how much it would cost to retrain everyone on computers? That expense alone could bankrupt every government agency. How about just waiting until they have the time to tell you? If it really bothers you, run for office and run things how you want.


Leaving aside the fact that there are plenty of gov initiatives to decrease paper use in this country, and the fact that in 2009 you shouldn't have to be "retraining" people to use computers they've been using for 15 years, you still don't have to have every government employee retrained on some new system.

All you have to do is create a department, or outsource the labor to the private sector, to enter all the paperwork from a central office to a file system. Let the people seeking the info do the labor of lookups on your server and let the gov drones keep pushing paper pulp around, as it seems to make both them and you so very happy.

How do you pay for it? Stimulus package. Take that fed money that some governors have been so leery of accepting with both hands and create some new jobs with it.

End results: More transparent government (which is what Rendell promised anyway), better data system infrastructure for government and the public, less paper use (Mandated by the government paperwork elimination act).

Oh, and jobs.

/fun fact: ed rendell's nickname in college was "stench".
//was in his fraternity

Remove all Republicans: deadsanta: that's a pretty small order for anything related to government documentation, is all I'm saying.

No, I think that's huge. If your request doesn't end up with more than a dozen pages, it's too broad. Nobody should have the right to bother the government about stuff like this. In times like this, we need our government officials focused on saving us, not on wasting time for menial things like this.

I seriously doubt the people who would be making the copies have anything to do with anything that's going to "save us."

Is it hard to stay in character all the time? Or have you been doing this so much it just flows out of you like so much mental diarrhea?

3500 pages is 7 Stephen King books. That's hardly a dumpster's worth.


AND just like original government documents .....he doesn't use an Underwood typewriter anymore to create them.

Elfich beat me to it. Yank them from the original disk, and say, "Here ya go."

The requester pays for copying it to another disk or data CD and then the taxpayer doesn't get stuck for toner costs.

Dear Fast Eddie,

Please take less advice on secrets from W and more general advice from Budd Dwyer.

Thank you,

Citizens of PA.

They don't call him Fast Eddie for nothing...

deadsanta: Remove all Republicans: deadsanta: You know the easy and cheap way to do all that?

Put it all online.

Scan once, dump on server, and you're done.

Do you know how much it would cost to retrain everyone on computers? That expense alone could bankrupt every government agency. How about just waiting until they have the time to tell you? If it really bothers you, run for office and run things how you want.


Leaving aside the fact that there are plenty of gov initiatives to decrease paper use in this country, and the fact that in 2009 you shouldn't have to be "retraining" people to use computers they've been using for 15 years, you still don't have to have every government employee retrained on some new system.

All you have to do is create a department, or outsource the labor to the private sector, to enter all the paperwork from a central office to a file system. Let the people seeking the info do the labor of lookups on your server and let the gov drones keep pushing paper pulp around, as it seems to make both them and you so very happy.

How do you pay for it? Stimulus package. Take that fed money that some governors have been so leery of accepting with both hands and create some new jobs with it.

End results: More transparent government (which is what Rendell promised anyway), better data system infrastructure for government and the public, less paper use (Mandated by the government paperwork elimination act).

Oh, and jobs.

/fun fact: ed rendell's nickname in college was "stench".
//was in his fraternity

This is what my company does. For PA government (among others). It's like pulling teeth.

The biatch could just drive over and read it.