1 out of 12 republicans approve of socialism? TRAITORS!

I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.

BigSnatch: I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.

Some of the biggest self-identified capitalists on these boards have, when asked to explain the underpinnings of their economic ideas, essentially revealed themselves to be Marxists. Most people don't even know what they believe on these issues.

BigSnatch: I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.

we'll get on that right after we finish with "voter fraud"

DamnYankees: Some of the biggest self-identified capitalists on these boards have, when asked to explain the underpinnings of their economic ideas, essentially revealed themselves to be Marxists.


Examples?

Only 20 percent of people sitting around the house on a work day answering telephone polls think socialism is superior to capitalism

Uhhhhh what?

Many Americans prefer socialism to capitalism, new poll finds (new window)

So which is it?

Or is 1/5 now considered "many"?

The important point of the survey is that belief that capitalism is superior has dropped almost 30 points.

Gee i wonder why.

BigSnatch: I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.

That is the real question.

For instance, does socialism automatically equate with authoritarianism? Can capitalism show signs of authoritarianism?

Republicans have been relying on the 'silent, moral majority' myth for years now to justify their pontificating. I can't wait to watch the Fox News WHARRGARBL when they realize that most Americans actually disagree with them.

Phil Herup: Examples?

I don't want to call people out who aren't here.

BigSnatch 2009-04-10 10:58:28 AM I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.
===================================

Pure unregulated lassze-faire (I know it's spelled wrong) capitalism is just as bad as pure socialism (called communism).

But... yeah, I too would be shocked if even 20% of people sitting around could actually define was socialism is.

Bob16: Gee i wonder why.

Because of the fearmongering news outlets inciting panic and pointing to capitalism as a scapegoat for the failure of those who are among that 30% to plan for the long-term.

Want proof? Ask again after the recovery, and see if the swing back to "oh, yeah - capitalism really does work!" makes any news at all.

Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Uhhhhh what?

Many Americans prefer socialism to capitalism, new poll finds (new window)

So which is it?

FTFA:

Asked whether capitalism or socialism is a better system, 53% of American adults cited capitalism, 20% said socialism and 27% said they weren't sure.

What's crazy is that capitalism can barely scrape a majority despite four decades of demonizing the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and socialism/communism in general.

Republicans for just as long have accused Democrats as being communists/socialists but now that Democrats are far more popular than Republicans, that connection may be working against the GOP. Funny, that.

radiumsoup: Because of the fearmongering news outlets inciting panic and pointing to capitalism as a scapegoat for the failure of those who are among that 30% to plan for the long-term.

Notice the lack of any proof.

DamnYankees: I don't want to call people out who aren't here.


that's a relief [wipes brow]

The point is completely rejecting one one in favor of the other is equally foolish.

They both have their benefits and their penalties.

The best thing to do would be to carefully study both and adopt each of them piecemeal to construct a system in which benefits are maximized and penalties are minimized.

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: The point is completely rejecting one one in favor of the other is equally foolish.

They both have their benefits and their penalties.

The best thing to do would be to carefully study both and adopt each of them piecemeal to construct a system in which benefits are maximized and penalties are minimized.

We don't take kindly to reasonable people here, matey. Take your careful and well-considered views, and shove them where-ever the sun doesn't shine on your well-educated body.

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: The point is completely rejecting one one in favor of the other is equally foolish.

They both have their benefits and their penalties.

The best thing to do would be to carefully study both and adopt each of them piecemeal to construct a system in which benefits are maximized and penalties are minimized.

So you've been to Canada?

TofuTheAlmighty: Democrats are far more popular than Republicans


And "American Idol" and "Dancing with the Stars" are each more popular than the O'Reilly Factor.


I will agree with you that there are far more idiots in the US than non-idiots.

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: The point is completely rejecting one one in favor of the other is equally foolish.

They both have their benefits and their penalties.

The best thing to do would be to carefully study both and adopt each of them piecemeal to construct a system in which benefits are maximized and penalties are minimized.

well Duh, gotta have a mix kinda like when you mix alcohol with soda and get just enough booze to get you buzzed but not to overpower the soda, and not to weak that you can't taste it

It is no surprise that all the thoughtful people are moving to one side, and all the thoughtless people are moving to the other.

The current struggle is not about Republican vs. Democrat or Capitalist vs. Socialist. It's about intellectualism vs. anti-intellectualism.

I hear that the next survey will show that most Americans think that you should stop beating your wife.

!mutually exclusive

Real capitalism is the 19 hour workdays in factories. If the laborers strike for safe conditions, bring in strike-buster gangs. If that doesn't work call your governor and ask for the national guard to bring in machine-guns to mow down the protester scum.

This pussy-footed system of a 40-hour work week with minimum wage, accountable management, benefits and insurance, and safety conditions!? Socalism! What would Victorian England capitalists think? What would gilded age robber-barons think?

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: The point is completely rejecting one one in favor of the other is equally foolish.

They both have their benefits and their penalties.

The best thing to do would be to carefully study both and adopt each of them piecemeal to construct a system in which benefits are maximized and penalties are minimized.

Hence the problem with these polls. Forcing someone to choose between capitalism and socialism puts a Ron Paultard or Freeper in the same category as someone who would prefer what you described, but only chose capitalism because his option wasn't present.

alostpacket: !mutually exclusive

I_Approve_Of_This_Message: It's about intellectualism vs. anti-intellectualism.



Which side does ACORN help?





/hot! like the inner city in July

Silovik: So you've been to Canada?

As a matter of fact, yes I have.

Podna: well Duh, gotta have a mix kinda like when you mix alcohol with soda and get just enough booze to get you buzzed but not to overpower the soda, and not to weak that you can't taste it

Not... The... Metaphor I would have chosen first, but sort of, yes.

Phil Herup: I_Approve_Of_This_Message: It's about intellectualism vs. anti-intellectualism.



Which side does ACORN help?

/hot! like the inner city in July

My god, are you STILL rambling on about ACORN? Its APRIL man.

/move on

radiumsoup: Bob16: Gee i wonder why.

Because of the fearmongering news outlets inciting panic and pointing to capitalism as a scapegoat for the failure of those who are among that 30% to plan for the long-term.

Want proof? Ask again after the recovery, and see if the swing back to "oh, yeah - capitalism really does work!" makes any news at all.

Or maybe because 40% of the elected officials in this country have been calling the other 60% socialists since January 21. Maybe, just maybe Rasmussen thinks riding that wave is a good way to get his group in the news stream for an extra week.

There is precisely one (1) socialist in Congress. This country is a long, long way from having a socialist economy. We're barely even approaching social democratic standards.

...and 1 out of a 100 could tell you would the words Capitalism and Socialism actually mean. 100 out of 100 will happily tell you which one is better though.

The RIchest Man in Babylon: My god, are you STILL rambling on about ACORN? Its APRIL man.


Just using an example. It was the first thing that came to mind.


It's about intellectualism vs. anti-intellectualism. Was the part I was referring too.

/move on?


Don't you mean move on.org?

Podna:

I prefer to think of it this way...


"You got your capitalism in my socialism!"
"You got your socialism on my capitalism!"

Phil Herup: I_Approve_Of_This_Message: It's about intellectualism vs. anti-intellectualism.



Which side does ACORN help?

Squirrels.... is it Squirrels? God damn I hate the Squirrel lobby so much! Look at 'em with their shift little eyes, and tiny little paws! Thinking they can just come into my attic anytime they please...

This is good news for that socialist Obama

Phil Herup: I_Approve_Of_This_Message: It's about intellectualism vs. anti-intellectualism.



Which side does ACORN help?


[Picture of lazy people protesting for other people to do what they should be doing to help themselves.]


/hot! like the inner city in July


Do these people know what a rap-trap is? If all of the poeple protesting got off there lazy asses and put out rat traps instead of scream that someone should do it for them they wouldn't have a problem...

This is a very real difference between liberalism and (conservatism or Libertarianism)

DamnYankees: BigSnatch: I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.

Some of the biggest self-identified capitalists on these boards have, when asked to explain the underpinnings of their economic ideas, essentially revealed themselves to be Marxists. Most people don't even know what they believe on these issues.

There's a lot of legitimate confusion over whether corporatism is a variant of capitalism (it's a capital-based system and the natural tendency of an unregulated market) or socialism (it's heavy-handed organizational control of markets, just not by the government). So being somewhat unclear on that point is rather natural.

Capitalism and socialism aren't entirely opposed systems, there's some overlap. Free-market capitalism not so much, I guess.

AndEhBus: Do these people know what a rap-trap is? If all of the poeple protesting got off there lazy asses and put out rat traps instead of scream that someone should do it for them they wouldn't have a problem...

This is a very real difference between liberalism and (conservatism or Libertarianism)

Yes, indeed...

"I don't have the means to eliminate my home's rat infestation, to prevent them from breeding, or to ensure against future infestations. Since you own the building and I provide you money via rent, could you help me, please?" = Liberalism

= Conservatism/Libertarianism

AndEhBus:
Do these people know what a rat-trap is? If all of the poeple protesting got off there lazy asses and put out rat traps instead of scream that someone should do it for them they wouldn't have a problem...

This is a very real difference between liberalism and (conservatism or Libertarianism)

Rat-traps aren't necessarily cheap, and to do it effectively you really need access to the whole building. That's why the owners/managers are typically responsible for it, not the tenants. Tenants can only really set the things up in their own living space, which probably is not where the things are nesting.

Also, it's typically a contractual obligation of the owner at least by implication, in the same way the owner is contractually obligated to maintain building plumbing. Part of providing a 'residence' in most states. So there's your 'conservative' answer, though I really feel it comes down more to the practical answer (previous paragraph).

//Been a manager. Having rats living in the building requires an amazing amount of neglect.

All the tea-bagger whining about socialism is so ridiculous. The federal highway system, land-grant universities and their football teams, the military, fire and police departments, the post office, and Social Security are all socialist, or at least social democratic, programs. The wingers shouldn't really be surprised that when the free-market fails, people will look to non-market solutions.

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: "I don't have the means to eliminate my home's rat infestation, to prevent them from breeding, or to ensure against future infestations. Since you own the building and I the government provides you money via rent, Section 8 assistance because I can't pay rent myself and keep my shiny new Corolla parked out front at the same time, could you help me, please? I demand that the government seize your assets and give me a higher quality of life even though I have done nothing for it." = Liberalism

some picture of an old lady we're supposed to believe is helpless and poor Looks like you have a great opportunity to open a pest conrtol service business = Conservatism/Libertarianism

/only half kidding

Why does it have to be all one or the other? Isn't dealing in absolutes just wrong anyway? Why can't we take the best of both systems (and other systems) and live that way? I mean, some of the socialist policies of European countries (for instance, new mothers or fathers to collect a stipend that allows one parent to stay home with a child for a year or more instead of dumping them into childcare at 6-weeks-old) would be very beneficial to society. The same goes for many of the aspects of capitalism.

BigSnatch: I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.

The (VERY) basic chief economic differences are easy:

Capitalism = private ownership of means of production, private control
Fascism = private ownership of means of production, state control
Socialism = state ownership of means of production, state control

Note that laws and regulations are different things.

Capitalism is opposed to regulatory control, but not laws (assuming those laws are based on the protection of rights). For instance, a law states that you cannot sell spoiled poultry - a good idea, since spoiled food can kill; a regulation controls how much poultry you can produce and sell, and at what price - a bad idea, since such regulations are ever-changing depending on who the regulator's noisiest pull-peddler.

Both fascism and socialism (economically) favor state authority over every decision or action a producer or consumer makes. The only difference is that under fascism a pretense of private ownership is maintained.

Hideously Gigantic Smurf: "I don't have the means to eliminate my home's rat infestation, to prevent them from breeding, or to ensure against future infestations. Since you own the building and I provide you money via rent, could you help me, please?" I am a dirty slob, and all 4 generations of my family have lived here. We have dirtied up the projects so much we got rats the size of Volkswagens. Somebody better get someone down here to fix it and we ain't payin for it. = Liberalism


But please tell me where the intellectual vs non-intellectual answer to my question. Which side does liberalism support now?

BigSnatch: I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.

Anyone who disagrees with Sean Hannity is a socialist.

This month. Formerly it was "terrorist". Before that "unpatriotic". We're not sure what it will be next.

Renart: The federal highway system, land-grant universities and their football teams, the military, fire and police departments, the post office, and Social Security are all socialist....



BULLSHIAT.

TofuTheAlmighty: Schadenfreude ist die schoenste Freude: Uhhhhh what?

Many Americans prefer socialism to capitalism, new poll finds (new window)

So which is it?

FTFA:
Asked whether capitalism or socialism is a better system, 53% of American adults cited capitalism, 20% said socialism and 27% said they weren't sure.What's crazy is that capitalism can barely scrape a majority despite four decades of demonizing the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and socialism/communism in general.

Republicans for just as long have accused Democrats as being communists/socialists but now that Democrats are far more popular than Republicans, that connection may be working against the GOP. Funny, that.

So, the Soviet Union really wasn't all that bad, then?

The Great Gazoo: Why does it have to be all one or the other? Isn't dealing in absolutes just wrong anyway? Why can't we take the best of both systems (and other systems) and live that way?

Came here to say this.
That poll is stupid.
A purely socialist nation would suck just as much as a purely capitalist nation.

BigSnatch: I'd be more curious to see how many Americans could accurately describe what capitalism is and what socialism is.

I'd be curious to see how many Americans could accurately spell capitalism and socialism.