In 2014 he will be 91 years old.

I'm all for people working past "retirement age" if they want to, but hombre - relax. Go take a trip somewhere and enjoy yourself. Alaska will not crumble because you're not in the Senate any more.

Why not the Hero tag? I mean, just for his tenacity. Like Rocky when he refused to go down. Or something. I dunno.

If Stevens were to run, the 2014 election would look very much like the 2008 race. Begich says he intends to seek re-election.

You're right. It will be a living candidate v. a corpse all over again. Deja farking vu.

Well hey, if you can drive drunk in to a river and leave a woman to drown and still be a Senator... Or if you can be a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and be a Senator...

Why would a little thing like ethics violations be a problem?

randomjsa: Well hey, if you can drive drunk in to a river and leave a woman to drown and still be a Senator... Or if you can be a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and be a Senator...


I know you're trolling, and I'm assuming you're talking about Byrd, who wasn't a Grand Wizard, but the only Grand Wizard I'm aware of who ran nationally for Congress was David Duke. And, whether or not it's interesting or not, when running against one of the most openly corrupt legislators in our country's history.

Duke lost, possibly on the strength of the slogan 'Vote for the Lizard, not the Wizard.'

Wiki: Vote for the Crook, it's Important

Joliet_Jake: randomjsa: Well hey, if you can drive drunk in to a river and leave a woman to drown and still be a Senator... Or if you can be a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and be a Senator...


I know you're trolling, and I'm assuming you're talking about Byrd, who wasn't a Grand Wizard, but the only Grand Wizard I'm aware of who ran nationally for Congress was David Duke. And, whether or not it's interesting or not, when running against one of the most openly corrupt legislators in our country's history.

Duke lost, possibly on the strength of the slogan 'Vote for the Lizard, not the Wizard.'

Wiki: Vote for the Crook, it's Important

I really need to stop running my posts through Babelfish so many times before submitting them.

randomjsa: Or if you can be a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and be a Senator...

None of the currently seated senators were a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. Robert Byrd was a grunt and a recruiter for a brief period, but disavowed them in the 1950s. Which was, you know, half a century ago.

And the fact that he helped propel Barack Obama into the Presidency just might be enough penance to get you to SHUT THE FARK UP WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?

captainktainer: randomjsa: Or if you can be a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and be a Senator...

None of the currently seated senators were a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. Robert Byrd was a grunt and a recruiter for a brief period, but disavowed them in the 1950s. Which was, you know, half a century ago.

And the fact that he helped propel Barack Obama into the Presidency just might be enough penance to get you to SHUT THE FARK UP WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?

Hey, I don't know that you should be complaining so loudly. By his logic you are now a Fark admin.

captainktainer: Robert Byrd was a grunt and a recruiter for a brief period, but disavowed them in the 1950s. Which was, you know, half a century ago. was a Democrat and that's all that matters to us.

Correct that for you so you can say what you meant :D

Wow, his conviction was overturned and a probe has been opened into the conduct of the prosecution, and THIS is the headline? I should just stop going to the political section. Or at least stop expecting it to give republicans a fair shake.

Princepapa: Wow, his conviction was overturned and a probe has been opened into the conduct of the prosecution, and THIS is the headline? I should just stop going to the political section. Or at least stop expecting it to give republicans a fair shake.

Well, to be completely fair, it's mostly the Republicans' actions that have caused the lack of a "fair shake" for Republicans.

Princepapa: Wow, his conviction was overturned and a probe has been opened into the conduct of the prosecution, and THIS is the headline? I should just stop going to the political section. Or at least stop expecting it to give republicans a fair shake.

We already had an article about the charges being dropped a few days ago and the article about charges being brought against the prosecution on Tuesday. That's why the headline is about the new development that he could potentially run for the office again in 2014. As far as how biased the headline is, at least it's rated "commie" and anyone who actually thinks Stevens got off because he was innocent is fooling themselves (although it was right to drop the charges as far as prosecutorial misconduct.)

Oh, and to add to the Stevens-Kennedy-Byrd list: Chris "Countrywide" Dodd, Larry "toe tappin'" Craig, and David "DC Madam" Vitter. 6 people (and 3 on both sides) who make you scratch your head as to why they are still in the Senate.

randomjsa: captainktainer: Robert Byrd was a grunt and a recruiter for a brief period, but disavowed them in the 1950s. Which was, you know, half a century ago. was a Democrat and that's all that matters to us randomjsa.

Correct that for you so you can say what you meant :D

Ditto

...it was done to accept donations that came into the campaign after the November election.

SHOCKING!!!

Princepapa: Wow, his conviction was overturned and a probe has been opened into the conduct of the prosecution, and THIS is the headline? I should just stop going to the political section. Or at least stop expecting it to give republicans a fair shake.

Look, with the evidence on the table, guy's dead guilty. The reason he got the gold-plated get-out-of-jail-free card? Prosecutorial misconduct, and double jeopardy's attached. It's the rough equivalent of someone driving drunk into a busload of nuns and crippled children in broad daylight with witnesses, then getting off because the prosecutor's bribing jurors. He got his fair shake: he's guilty, and the prosecutors were engaged in gross misconduct. The one doesn't preclude the other.

yarnothuntin: Why not the Hero tag? I mean, just for his tenacity. Like Rocky when he refused to go down.

But he's a Republican Senator. Going down (in restrooms) is one of the perks of office.

...and I forgot that Stevens was off that list as of the 2008 election. The fact that people like Palin are asking for him to be reinstated as Senator and for Begich to step down still puts him on the outrage radar.

And again, to balance: the fact that both Stevens and Rep. William Jefferson of LA (the "refrigerator full of money" guy) got booted from what should have been "safe" races most other years gave me the warm fuzzies.

With Six You Get Spittle: In 2014 he will be 91 years old.

And yet, I have little faith in Alaskans to not elect him.

Wait, can you claim any money from donations to an election campaign? I thought you weren't allowed to keep or use political donations for anything beyond campaigning for office? So, while you could use the leftover money to rerun for a seat or transfer it over to another campaign you decide to run, you cannot personally access those funds for non-campaign reasons.

So, if he's not planning to run for office again, why does he want access to these funds?

Crunch61: And yet, I have little faith in Alaskans to not elect him.

I can already see the attach ads accusing Begich of being behind a witchunt to frame an innocent elderly war hero of crimes he obviously did not commit and was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt he did not commit in a court of law.

randomjsa: Correct that for you so you can say what you meant :D

Y'know, I'm inclined to believe that something you did FIFTY YEARS AGO is not an accurate reflection of your immediate beliefs and moral interests. But hey, if you want to play that game we can always pull out Nixon's Republican Party and parade it around as an accurate reflection of modern conservatives... right?

And before you even bring it up, I voted for Republicans locally in the last election. I'm just tired of idiots like you trying to score political "points" even if it costs you your intellectual honesty, your dignity, and your moral judgment. There is a place for honest conservative thought in American governance, and when you use deceptive and dishonest tactics to try and "win" a political debate instead of presenting a meaningful, thoughtful counterpoint which might actually sway minds then you're doing you and everyone else a terrible disservice.

Stevens doesn't deserve your defense, and playing the false-equivalence game isn't going to make people suddenly vote for the Republican because "oh, they're worse!" The Democrats discovered that didn't work with their "Anybody But Bush" mantra in 2004. Present a quality candidate, speaking honestly to the people about meaningful political subjects instead of treating the voters like numbers in a game, and you'll start winning again. A true conservative voice resounds in the American populace. You just need to FIND IT, and moreover SPEAK IT HONESTLY. You can't fool all the people all the time. You fooled all the people for some of the time, but now you're only fooling some of the people all of the time and the rest are fed up with your fool's game. Start presenting the simple, honest truth.

0Icky0: yarnothuntin: Why not the Hero tag? I mean, just for his tenacity. Like Rocky when he refused to go down.

But he's a Republican Senator. Going down (in restrooms) is one of the perks of office.

OH SNAP! LOL

Stevens is a hero to many

thrgd456: Stevens is anhero to many

FTFY

At his age, he has more important things to worry about, such as actually living until the next election, let alone running in it.

Drakkenmaw: Start presenting the simple, honest truth.

The addiction to propaganda is too strong for many of them. My prognosis is not good for the GOP. I mean, for example, one of the House GOP's plans to retake the Congress is to manufacture "macacca moments" against the most vulnerable Democratic members.

Not put together a compelling vision of America's future, not push for ethical reforms, not even to attempt to accurately gage their own party's mood without blatant push polling. But to manipulate events to attempt to create an embarrassing 'spontaneous' piece of video tape to run on YouTube.

You only need to look at the esteem in which they hold their propagandists to see how badly they need this fix. Insult GWB all you want, but don't you DARE insult Limbaugh.

For the most part the GOP is a shell. All of the decent people have been driven out by this reliance on falsity. The sooner this country and its media realizes that there is no there there, and moves on, the better.

Oh, and as for my opinion - okay, Stevens deserved to get his conviction overturned after the evidence came out of the shenanigans the prosecution were pursuing in order to get a guilty verdict. As such, he certainly is free to run again for the Senate seat in Alaska that he previously held.

The Republicans should NOT let him on their ticket. He is tainted. Even if the government didn't get a conviction out of it, the evidence is clearly there to demonstrate that he was taking major "gifts" from people in contravention of legislative ethics rules. Beyond that, it's shady as hell and puts suspicion on him and his office from here on. Republicans should not want someone like him carrying their name around.

Run someone else. Hell, if Palin hasn't burnt out her political star by then you might be able to pacify her and her crusader followers by giving her the seat. It doesn't replace the Senate seat with anyone MORE ethical at that point, but it could well be argued that it's still worth it to get her off the national stage while satisfying her need to "go to Washington" with a less-significant post. It'd be a useful sacrifice. If she does what I think she'll do and flames out before 2012, run some "rising star" from local office and try to build some new names to replace all the ones you've lost recently. New blood is desperately needed in the Republicans. If you start from the bottom up you could probably have restocked the national arena with competent political forces in time for 2016 - and by that time whoever runs as a successor to Obama will be either riding on his coattails, thus seeming less impressive in comparison, or trying to run from whatever failures have stacked up in his later days.

The Democrats' golden child cannot avoid a major public screw-up forever, but you have to be positioned to take advantage of it. Right now the Republican position is prone, in the mud, with a stick up its ass. Regroup.

Grungehamster: Oh, and to add to the Stevens-Kennedy-Byrd list:...Larry "toe tappin'" Craig...make you scratch your head as to why they are still in the Senate.

That dude retired. Idaho has a new senator.

What is the complete disconnect these politicians have with reality?


Our elected officials are pretty much horrific.

thrgd456: Stevens is a hero to many those who venerate corruption

remember: an overturned conviction due to prosecutorial misconduct ≠ innocence.

Drakkenmaw: randomjsa: Correct that for you so you can say what you meant :D

Y'know, I'm inclined to believe that something you did FIFTY YEARS AGO is not an accurate reflection of your immediate beliefs and moral interests. But hey, if you want to play that game we can always pull out Nixon's Republican Party and parade it around as an accurate reflection of modern conservatives... right?

And before you even bring it up, I voted for Republicans locally in the last election. I'm just tired of idiots like you trying to score political "points" even if it costs you your intellectual honesty, your dignity, and your moral judgment. There is a place for honest conservative thought in American governance, and when you use deceptive and dishonest tactics to try and "win" a political debate instead of presenting a meaningful, thoughtful counterpoint which might actually sway minds then you're doing you and everyone else a terrible disservice.

Stevens doesn't deserve your defense, and playing the false-equivalence game isn't going to make people suddenly vote for the Republican because "oh, they're worse!" The Democrats discovered that didn't work with their "Anybody But Bush" mantra in 2004. Present a quality candidate, speaking honestly to the people about meaningful political subjects instead of treating the voters like numbers in a game, and you'll start winning again. A true conservative voice resounds in the American populace. You just need to FIND IT, and moreover SPEAK IT HONESTLY. You can't fool all the people all the time. You fooled all the people for some of the time, but now you're only fooling some of the people all of the time and the rest are fed up with your fool's game. Start presenting the simple, honest truth.

Damn.

Nice job.

Not like he'll listen (his Fark character won't allow him).

Phil Herup: What is the complete disconnect these politicians have with reality?


Our elected officials are pretty much horrific.

People in power had a habit of doing that. Maybe its the money and power that slowly makes them into vermin. Or they could be born that way.

Podna: Maybe its the money and power that slowly makes them into vermin. Or they could be born that way.



Agree 100%, as I think it is a system that corrupts even the most uncorruptible person.


Some are born that way as well. Barney Frank comes to mind as someone who was born that way. Party politics aside... that guy has zero shame or accountability in his own mind.


There is only one solution. Term Limits. Unfortunately, our founding fathers did not think of a way to get this done, as the very folks we are trying to limit are the ones who decide.

I don't like the guy but he was cleared of any crimes.

What the hell else does he have to do? Just because he runs doesnt mean he is going to win.

GaryPDX: I don't like the guy but he was cleared of any crimes.

Actually, no. His prosecution was overturned. It's not really the same.

GaryPDX: I don't like the guy but he was cleared of any crimes.

No he wasn't. He was convicted, and then the charges were dropped because the attorney general decided to punish the prosecutors for misconduct. That is specifically not being cleared of a crime. It means you may be guilty, you may be innocent, but you are not being prosecuted.

Larry Mahnken: No he wasn't. He was convicted, and then the charges were dropped because the attorney general decided to punish the prosecutors for misconduct. That is specifically not being cleared of a crime. It means you may be guilty, you may be innocent, but you are not being prosecuted.

Innocent until proven guilty

a disgraced, corrupt, ethics-violating U.S. senator

Is there any other kind?

Gunny Highway: Innocent until proven guilty

Whhaarrgarbl until proven intelligent.

Gunny Highway: Larry Mahnken: No he wasn't. He was convicted, and then the charges were dropped because the attorney general decided to punish the prosecutors for misconduct. That is specifically not being cleared of a crime. It means you may be guilty, you may be innocent, but you are not being prosecuted.

Innocent until proven guilty

In 1966, Freddy was arrested for the murders of the missing children. Young Kathryn was put into foster care and was later adopted. Due to the search warrant being signed incorrectly due to a drunk judge, all evidence was considered inadmissible, and Krueger was released in 1968.

Maddogjew: Gunny Highway: Innocent until proven guilty

Whhaarrgarbl until proven intelligent.

Your post is the height of intelligence. I dont like the guy I was just pointing out the obvious. If you choose to infer that I am a Republican (which I'm not) then so be it.

Larry Mahnken: GaryPDX: I don't like the guy but he was cleared of any crimes.

No he wasn't. He was convicted, and then the charges were dropped because the attorney general decided to punish the prosecutors for misconduct. That is specifically not being cleared of a crime. It means you may be guilty, you may be innocent, but you are not being prosecuted.

The main witness against him gave two very different versions of his story, and the prosecution sat on the other version. The judge is gong after the members of the prosecution.

Phil Herup: Barney Frank comes to mind as someone who was born that way. Party politics aside... that guy has zero shame or accountability in his own mind.

What a crock of shiat.

Barney Frank is the new right wing bogeyman and you swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.
Go ahead, list out for us all exactly what Barney Frank has done that deserves your hatred.

Extra points if you bring up that repeatedly debunked "Barney Frank single-handedly blocked the Republicans' attempt to prevent the banking system meltdown."

I can't wait to see this partisan line of crap.

Gunny Highway: Innocent until proven guilty

"In a court of law." The legal rules do not define reality. He still almost certainly did the crap they accused him of. Prosecutorial misconduct was his get-out-of-jail-free card, but it doesn't suddenly mean that he didn't accept multi-thousand-dollar "gifts" from people in contravention of Senate ethics rules.

Truthfully, he shouldn't be able to hold the office of "dogcatcher" ever again for such flagrant breach of the public trust. Realistically, people will go "oh, well look at that guy on their side and the crap he did" to justify never having to be the ones to step up and actually set an honest standard because he has name recognition on his side.

If Stevens runs, I won't be surprised if he wins. I just think that's awful.

Drakkenmaw: randomjsa: Correct that for you so you can say what you meant :D

Y'know, I'm inclined to believe that something you did FIFTY YEARS AGO is not an accurate reflection of your immediate beliefs and moral interests. But hey, if you want to play that game we can always pull out Nixon's Republican Party and parade it around as an accurate reflection of modern conservatives... right?

In that scenario, you might have a point. If the modern politicians are the ones that served in Nixon's administration, that is.

Say, Rumsfeld and Cheney.



You know, if worked with Nixon or Ford. In the Office of Economic Opportunity from 1969-70 (perhaps). Or if one was Secretary of Defense, and the other was White House Chief of Staff.





Then yes, there's a definite link between Nixon's staff and modern conservatives.

Podna: Gunny Highway: Larry Mahnken: No he wasn't. He was convicted, and then the charges were dropped because the attorney general decided to punish the prosecutors for misconduct. That is specifically not being cleared of a crime. It means you may be guilty, you may be innocent, but you are not being prosecuted.

Innocent until proven guilty

In 1966, Freddy was arrested for the murders of the missing children. Young Kathryn was put into foster care and was later adopted. Due to the search warrant being signed incorrectly due to a drunk judge, all evidence was considered inadmissible, and Krueger was released in 1968.

So what's your point, everyone is guilty until they prove themselves innocent. How do you want the law in the U.S.

Jackpot777: You know, if they worked with Nixon or Ford.

Moar cofee.

atlanta_ufo: The judge is gong after the members of the prosecution.

And justifiably so.

See, it is possible that there are two guilty parties here. But, because of double jeopardy laws, only one of them is in danger of going to jail right now.