Notre Dame had Crusaders as guest speakers?

torch: Notre Dame had Crusaders as guest speakers?

Yeah. They did.

This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.
George W. Bush September 16, 2001

I can respect any consistently applied belief system, as long as the individual doesn't interfere with others.

It's not the anti-abortion stance of the Bishops that pisses me off, it's their amazing HYPOCRISY in single-issuing the abortion platform and completely dismissing war, torture, death penalty, environmental destruction and the 1,000 other anti-Christian behaviors of Bush.

They are the embodiment of modern-day Pharisees!

Didn't the conservatives get the memo?

No one gives a frog's fat ass what they think anymore. They're irrelevant except as a source of occasional amusement to those who don't subscribe to their outdated school of thought.

Holden C: I can respect any consistently applied belief system, as long as the individual doesn't interfere with others.

It's not the anti-abortion stance of the Bishops that pisses me off, it's their amazing HYPOCRISY in single-issuing the abortion platform and completely dismissing war, torture, death penalty, environmental destruction and the 1,000 other anti-Christian behaviors of Bush.

They are the embodiment of modern-day Pharisees!

It's typical; they have this strange fetish about protecting "the unborn" until they're born! Once your born, if they can't brainwash you into following what they say, or get money out of you, they could give a shiat less about you. They'll be happy to send you off to die in a stupid war of choice, they'll execute you, they'll stand in the way of scientific research that could help save your life.

They're bastards, basically.

zappaisfrank: It's typical; they have this strange fetish about protecting "the unborn" until they're born! Once your born, if they can't brainwash you into following what they say, or get money out of you, they could give a shiat less about you.

The largest provider of privately-funded social services in the United States is...?

Deeds, not just words.

STFU.

DarthBrooks: zappaisfrank: It's typical; they have this strange fetish about protecting "the unborn" until they're born! Once your born, if they can't brainwash you into following what they say, or get money out of you, they could give a shiat less about you.

The largest provider of privately-funded social services in the United States is...?

Deeds, not just words.

STFU.

You can't pay your way out of being a hypocrite.

Infinite Monkeys In Front Of A Computer: You can't pay your way out of being a hypocrite.

The bullsht argument that Catholics don't care about babies once they're born is easily disproved by the long-established and diverse services provided by Catholic Charities and other Catholic service organizations.

So the "hypocrite" argument is bigoted nonsense.

DarthBrooks: Infinite Monkeys In Front Of A Computer: You can't pay your way out of being a hypocrite.

The bullsht argument that Catholics don't care about babies once they're born is easily disproved by the long-established and diverse services provided by Catholic Charities and other Catholic service organizations.

So the "hypocrite" argument is bigoted nonsense.

One of the [baby + 9 years] who was raped by her stepfather and became pregnant with twins discovered that her unborn childrens' lives were more important to the Catholic Church than her own life. She witnessed the church excommunicate her mother and the doctors who preformed the abortion - even though she would have died had the twins been caried to term. The only reason the girl herself wasn't excommunicated was because she was so young.

And the best part is, they made a point of not excommunicating the asshole who raped her.

Fark conservatives up their stupid idiot asses.

I don't know if Obama's stimulus plan will work. I don't know if his presidency will be successful.

But I DO know that for a change, the country isn't being run by blind retarded monkeys who only care about making a buck and spreading their Jesus all over the rest of us.

So screw you, conservatives, these are the glory days.

DarthBrooks: So the "hypocrite" argument is bigoted nonsense.

Talk to some people who work for Planned Parenthood. I've known a few. You'd be surprised how many mothers bring their daughters in that are on Pro-Life committee's or have strong anti-abortion view points. When asked if they've changed their minds on abortion a majority will tell them they still believe it should be illegal.

That, my friend, is hypocrisy.

I paid to have two of my evil spawn aborted in the early 1990s, and it was easily the best money I have ever spent.

I'm thrilled and proud that I have functioning sperm.

I'm even more thrilled that I don't have some idiot teenagers running after me, asking me for cash, here in 2009.

I love you, abortion.

Drew should change the name of the politics tab to "Conservatives outrage".

DarthBrooks: So the "hypocrite" argument is bigoted nonsense.

It's true. Catholics love children. Especially priests.

They love the shiat out of them.

/Low blow, I know.
//Don't throw me the easy pitches, I won't swing at 'em.

Infinite Monkeys In Front Of A Computer: You'd be surprised how many mothers bring their daughters in that are on Pro-Life committee's or have strong anti-abortion view points. When asked if they've changed their minds on abortion a majority will tell them they still believe it should be illegal.

The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion

A 21 year old woman and her mother drove three hours to come to their appointment for an abortion. They were surprised to find the clinic a 'nice' place with friendly, personable staff. While going over contraceptive options, they shared that they were Pro-Life and disagreed with abortion, but that the patient could not afford to raise a child right now. Also, she wouldn't need contraception since she wasn't going to have sex until she got married, because of her religious beliefs. Rather than argue with them, I saw this as an opportunity for dialogue, and in the end, my hope was that I had planted a 'healing seed' to help resolve the conflict between their beliefs and their realities." (Physician, Washington State)

"I have done several abortions on women who have regularly picketed my clinics, including a 16 year old schoolgirl who came back to picket the day after her abortion, about three years ago. During her whole stay at the clinic, we felt that she was not quite right, but there were no real warning bells. She insisted that the abortion was her idea and assured us that all was OK. She went through the procedure very smoothly and was discharged with no problems. A quite routine operation. Next morning she was with her mother and several school mates in front of the clinic with the usual anti posters and chants. It appears that she got the abortion she needed and still displayed the appropriate anti views expected of her by her parents, teachers, and peers." (Physician, Australia)

In 1973, after Roe v. Wade, abortion became legal but had to be performed in a hospital. That of course was changed later. For the first 'legal abortion day' I had scheduled five procedures. While scrubbing between cases, I was accosted by the Chief of the OB/Gyn service. He asked me, 'How many children are you going to kill today?' My response, out of anger, was a familiar vulgar retort. About three months later, this born-again Christian called me to explain that he was against abortion but his daughter was only a junior in high school and was too young to have a baby and he was also afraid that if she did have a baby she would not want to put it up for adoption. I told him he did not need to explain the situation to me. 'All I need to know', I said, 'is that SHE wants an abortion.' Two years later I performed a second abortion on her during her college break. She thanked me and pleaded, 'Please don't tell my dad, he is still anti-abortion.'" (Physician, Washington State)

Infinite Monkeys In Front Of A Computer: That, my friend, is hypocrisy.

True that.

However while Catholics are generally staunchly opposed to abortion, the people you are thinking of, who you see on television, or working to pass legislation are predominantly not Catholic, but are some stripe of fundamentalist Protestant. Catholics in American tend to be pretty chill.

DarthBrooks is correct to say DarthBrooks: Deeds, not just words.

STFU.

ninjakirby: However while Catholics are generally staunchly opposed to abortion, the people you are thinking of, who you see on television, or working to pass legislation are predominantly not Catholic

Two words: Operation Rescue

Founded by Randall Terry, who is spearheading this campaign. One of the largest, most vocal and most violent anti-abortion groups in the nation.

Confabulat: I paid to have two of my evil spawn aborted in the early 1990s, and it was easily the best money I have ever spent.

I'm thrilled and proud that I have functioning sperm.

I'm even more thrilled that I don't have some idiot teenagers running after me, asking me for cash, here in 2009.

I love you, abortion.

But every sperm is sacred/Every sperm is great...

Infinite Monkeys In Front Of A Computer: Two words: Operation Rescue

Founded by Randall Terry, who is spearheading this campaign. One of the largest, most vocal and most violent anti-abortion groups in the nation.

American terrorists. Supported happily by American right-wingers, just like all the other domestic bombers that American conservatives don't officially "approve" of, but secretly like and hope they succeed.

Remember, people, before 9/11, the worst terrorist attack on American soil was given to us by a heart-thumping, Rush Limbaugh-loving dittohead called Timothy McVeigh.

Right-wing Americans are FAR more dangerous in our daily lives than any Middle Eastern Muslim could hope to be.

Right-wing Americans are the most terrified, violent, and angry subset of humanity I encounter on a regular basis. You?

This isn't the Church doing it...they actually invited Obama. This is the right wingers of the University.

While individual Catholics and Clergy can be Hypocritical, the Roman Catholic Church doctrine is decidedly pro--life. They don't like Abortion, NOR do they like Capital Punishment. That's one thing many conservatives cannot reconcile without being hypocritical.

And the Catholic Church was guilty of crimes against humanity- so were other Christian religions. Protestants church were far more active in Witch burning than the Catholic Church.

It has changed, as a church, where once it condemned men of science for heresy It is now one of the few churches that accepts that science is a tool that God gave them.

I was Catholic, I'm an Non-Theist now. But it bugs me that people slam the Catholics unjustly. It's not like they are, Jehovah Witnesses, Scientologist or Mormons. Any "religion" founded in the United states should be pretty much considered suspect.

It's not that the Catholic Church has changed; it's just that most American Catholics think the Vatican is pretty much a joke.

Confabulat: It's not that the Catholic Church has changed; it's just that most American Catholics think the Vatican is pretty much a joke.

Americans are very lousy Catholics. Always have been. If you don't believe, then do what I did-leave.

/Although I did end up being my niece Godfather.
//They needed ONE Godparent to have been baptized. Big difference from when I was a kid.
///I'll make you an offer you can't refuse.

Darth_Lukecash: Any "religion" founded in the United states should be pretty much considered suspect.

FTFY

Confabulat: Right-wing Americans are the most terrified, violent, and angry subset of humanity I encounter on a regular basis. You?

Jews.

Darth_Lukecash: Americans are very lousy Catholics. Always have been.

It probably has a lot to do with the high amounts of anti-Catholic prejudice in this country dating back to its founding. You were devout as long as you were in your Irish neighborhood in NYC or Boston, but as soon as you got out into the much more heavily Protestant areas of the rest of the country it was easy to fall into the 'non-practicing' role.

BTW, you might be interested in something I found today. I feel like I owe you one - Link (new window)

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: Jews.

Touche. Sheesh how many more thousands of years are they going to whine about being God's chosen people, whose lives always suck and everyone hates them, even though they have most of our money?

Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: Jews.

Where? The West Bank?

Confabulat: Ted Kennedy's Brain Tumor: Jews.

Touche. Sheesh how many more thousands of years are they going to whine about being God's chosen people, whose lives always suck and everyone hates them, even though they have most of our money?

I'm also not too fond of anarcho-syndicalist agitators. Who I routinely meet in Barcelona. Criteria 1935.

The woman had a choice when she choose to be sexually active, she had control over her body (in all cases that apply to this statement) and could choose not to have sex with no harm done. The choice Obama and they that agree with him support results in the death of another life. It is legal so no crime is done, yet a death will take place when an abortion is carried out. It is no longer just her body. The selfish woman has to kill that child. Maybe it is not illegal, but it still seems wrong to me. Abortion has it's rightful place and that is to save the life of the mother if the pregnancy will kill her. The use of abortion for birth control (a woman who has a choice in her sexual encounter, not raped) is deranged infanticide and is as wrong as any other murder, yet not illegal. So if I were an alumni of ND then I would protest the bad man's speech.

Darth_Lukecash: It is now one of the few churches that accepts that science is a tool that God gave them.

He did, did he?
Pity he didn't give it sooner.

And a pity that you can't see where science really comes from.

cptdon: Abortion has it's rightful place and that is to save the life of the mother if the pregnancy will kill her.

why is the mothers life worth more than the unborn?

oh..and..."the bad man's speech"?? really?

cptdon: The woman had a choice when she choose to be sexually active, she had control over her body (in all cases that apply to this statement) and could choose not to have sex with no harm done. The choice Obama and they that agree with him support results in the death of another life. It is legal so no crime is done, yet a death will take place when an abortion is carried out. It is no longer just her body. The selfish woman has to kill that child. Maybe it is not illegal, but it still seems wrong to me. Abortion has it's rightful place and that is to save the life of the mother if the pregnancy will kill her. The use of abortion for birth control (a woman who has a choice in her sexual encounter, not raped) is deranged infanticide and is as wrong as any other murder, yet not illegal. So if I were an alumni of ND then I would protest the bad man's speech.

Did you support the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq?

0Icky0: And a pity that you can't see where science really comes from.

Sorry, I mean "they".

cptdon: The use of abortion for birth control (a woman who has a choice in her sexual encounter, not raped) is deranged infanticide and is as wrong as any other murder, yet not illegal.

How is the child of rape any less innocent than the child of willing rumpy-pumpy?

Why do you support the murder of some innocents, but not others?

log_jammin: cptdon: Abortion has it's rightful place and that is to save the life of the mother if the pregnancy will kill her.

why is the mothers life worth more than the unborn?

oh..and..."the bad man's speech"?? really?

My only response to that can be self defense. To take life to save your own in my view and most others, I imagine, is reasonable.

As for Obama I have not seen him do much good yet, but I am waiting.

Come on Catholics get your shiat straight, it is hard to defend you guys when you have the the Pope inducting a pro-choice President as the honorary canon of the Basilica of Saint John Lateran

hypocrisy in our Religion? Say ain't so Joe!

CynicalLA: Did you support the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq?

Mohammedans are going to Hell for obeying false doctrine, so they don't count as persons.

0Icky0: cptdon: The use of abortion for birth control (a woman who has a choice in her sexual encounter, not raped) is deranged infanticide and is as wrong as any other murder, yet not illegal.

How is the child of rape any less innocent than the child of willing rumpy-pumpy?

Why do you support the murder of some innocents, but not others?

You have a great point. Ideally those would be born too, but I do not fail to see the point here that the woman DID NOT have a choice in the matter. I don't like compromise when it comes to someones life but I understand that with out a little of it there will be no resolution, even an uneasy resolution. So I don't support it, it just is.

cptdon: My only response to that can be self defense. To take life to save your own in my view and most others, I imagine, is reasonable.

no no no...you were talking about the morality of abortion and how it may be legal but it is still "wrong". and how the only "rightful" abortion is if the mothers life is endanger.

my question is, how is it "rightful" to kill a baby to save an adult?

Some great stats in The Week this week about Catholics being very chill on a lot of hot-button issues. As a Catholic m'self, I know lots of people who would like to see abortion made illegal, but are fine with it being a personal choice because we know we live in a pluralistic society and if we want the country we live in's government to act like we're the only group that matters we could always just move to Ireland.

Gays? Let them 'enjoy' marriage as much as everybody else. Abortion? Not for me, but I'm not the only one who lives here. Prayer in schools? As long as there are tests in schools that's probably covered. Evangelism? Counting our age in millennia and hanging that nice 'Over 1 billion served' on the door makes us a lot less obsessed with adding people to our flist - you've got questions? We've got answers. You don't have questions? Fair enough, stop by anytime.

cptdon: As for Obama I have not seen him do much good yet, but I am waiting.

And you are one to judge? Abortion is a wedge issue and is used by the right to rally the base. If the fundies were about doing good, they would focus on something realistic. Right now, it's just making sure some people don't have rights and judging fellow Americans.

Anyone who aborts a viable fetus should be charged with treason. That's a future tax payer and draftee they've just killed. Everyone laughs about it, as they poke at the rotting, glutenous corpse, but we'll see just how much fun they've had when the People's Republic of China crosses the Strait of Taiwan with a bridge of conscripts. When the United States, with a population of a mere three hundred million, is tasked with tackling the behemoth of China in conventional combat on the beaches of Taiwan. The inability of the military to match the raw numbers of the People's Republic will necessitate the use of tactical nuclear weapons. How long before those low yield weapons become strategic, half megaton-strength warheads detonating above American and Chinese cities? All because American citizens refused to have enough babies to allow for a conventional war with China. So go on, citizen. Abort your viable fetus. Stick instruments in the fetal mass that would have become a soldier, factory worker or engineer. When the world comes asunder and major urban centers are reduced to radioactive slag, we'll see who was right. Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city!

Occam's Chainsaw: CynicalLA: Did you support the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq?

Mohammedans are going to Hell for obeying false doctrine, so they don't count as persons.

The hypocrisy, it kills!

log_jammin: cptdon: My only response to that can be self defense. To take life to save your own in my view and most others, I imagine, is reasonable.

no no no...you were talking about the morality of abortion and how it may be legal but it is still "wrong". and how the only "rightful" abortion is if the mothers life is endanger.

my question is, how is it "rightful" to kill a baby to save an adult?

Anyone who poses a clear and immediate threat to your life you have the right to defend yourself against.

CynicalLA: cptdon: As for Obama I have not seen him do much good yet, but I am waiting.

And you are one to judge? Abortion is a wedge issue and is used by the right to rally the base. If the fundies were about doing good, they would focus on something realistic. Right now, it's just making sure some people don't have rights and judging fellow Americans.

Yes when it comes to Obama doing well or not I am one of the ones to judge, as is every other citizen of the United States. I even hear there are some that disagree with me and think he is doing a fine job.

Every issue is a wedge issue.

cptdon: Anyone who poses a clear and immediate threat to your life you have the right to defend yourself against.

not when you put that person in the position to take your life.

remember, as you put it, she made the choice to have sex and get pregnant, the baby didn't. The baby never made a choice to put her life in danger. and morally, shouldn't the mother be willing to sacrifice her life for her children?

log_jammin: no no no...you were talking about the morality of abortion and how it may be legal but it is still "wrong". and how the only "rightful" abortion is if the mothers life is endanger.

In most cases, if the mother's life is at significant risk, the baby is extremely unlikely to survive either way.

"my question is, how is it "rightful" to kill a baby to save an adult?."

I don't know about 'rightful' but the difference is the adult is presumably part of a complex web of people and networks that would suffer irreplaceable loss in the loss of her life. She's likely to be a co-worker, a spouse or girlfriend, and seeing as this is an 'only when death is likely' scenario she could also easily already be a mother to other children.

We've had miscarriages in my family. We've also buried my late brother, who was an adult, husband and father at the time of his death. Ask us which loss blew a whole in the family you could drive a truck through.

/remember, your scenario was either one or the other
//and before you point out co-workers are replaceable, I'm not talking about the work not getting done, I'm talking about the loss of the person, not the productivity

DarthBrooks: The bullsht argument that Catholics don't care about babies once they're born is easily disproved by the long-established and diverse services provided by Catholic Charities and other Catholic service organizations.


That's true, Catholics are well known for servicing children.