Thanks to the likes of iTunes and other sites like TrackItDown.net, you can be your own label. Thanks to technology, you can run ProTools (or something similar) in your bedroom, on your own PC, and get (if you're good enough) the same results as the pros.

Times, they are a changing, that's for sure.

"Biggest wake-up calls of my career was when I saw a record contract. I said, 'Wait - you sell it for $18.98 and I make 80 cents? And I have to pay you back the money you lent me to make it and then you own it?"

And in order to insure that artists get compensated for their hard work, the RIAA will make sure no one steals that property from those record companies ...

FTA:

Reznor says, "Anyone who's an executive at a record label does not understand what the internet is, how it works, how people use it, how fans and consumers interact - no idea. I'm surprised they know how to use email. They have built a business around selling plastic discs, and nobody wants plastic discs any more. They're in such a state of denial it's impossible for them to understand what's happening".

Say what you will about Reznor, but he's 100% correct here.

impaler: And in order to insure that artists get compensated for their hard work, the RIAA will make sure no one steals that property from those record companies ...

That's a ridiculously expensive insurance policy.

I'm betting a lot of artists will take the gamble instead.

Rev.K: Say what you will about Reznor, but he's 100% correct here.

Reznor is blindingly insightful most of the time when he talks, actually. The man has consistently been at the forefront of music as an industry both artistically and technologically.

mattharvest: Reznor is blindingly insightful most of the time when he talks, actually. The man has consistently been at the forefront of music as an industry both artistically and technologically.

This.

eqtworld: Most people I know could use and did use Napster, almost zero (non-IT) people I know have figured out bittorrent or usenet

They have scared many people into compliance

Most non-IT people I know these days don't know their own machines beyond launching their web browser. Many of them struggle with the concept of files. As in "Ok, you downloaded the file to your "My Documents" folder, so now go there." "What, how do I do that?"

eqtworld: They are pretty on top of preventing the average person from having a good file sharing program though.

Most people I know could use and did use Napster, almost zero (non-IT) people I know have figured out bittorrent or usenet

They have scared many people into compliance

Technological ignorance is the last line of defense they have left. I'm amazed it's taking this long, actually. I mean BitTorrent isn't that hard to use...

the rap industry has been following this lead for years. why do you think those farkers are so goddamned rich?

Truth about recording deals. (new window) Long, but a must read for anyone thinking about signing a deal memo.

doublesecretprobation: the rap industry has been following this lead for years. why do you think those farkers are so goddamned rich?

Selling crack?


_{/lolracismpad}

In before the Nine Inch Haters

Most of the movement in the past 20 years has been towards the self-produced artist. In the early 80s, putting out a piece of vinyl was a big, expensive project. Then, little by little, it started changing. Digital 4-tracks, cheap CDs, etc

By the mid-90s, the only way to step to a major label was prove that you were already commercially viable by releasing your own CDs (see Nirvana's Bleach or Beck's Stereopathetic Soul Manure)

Obviously, the internet changed everything. Now there is no physical medium needed to pass around. The big labels could only act as arbiters and aggregators... and then, there is no need for a huge corporation to manage

/wow that was longer than I expected

eqtworld: They are pretty on top of preventing the average person from having a good file sharing program though.

Most people I know could use and did use Napster, almost zero (non-IT) people I know have figured out bittorrent or usenet

They have scared many people into compliance

I don't think it's scared people into compliance so much as they have made legal music downloading easier. Whether it's iTunes, Amazon, etc... For me it wasn't getting the music free that drove me to download, it was the convenience. I have no problem paying for music to support the artists that I like. It's having to buy a whole album when only one or two songs on it are any good that pushed me into downloading in the first place.

Winktologist: mattharvest: Reznor is blindingly insightful most of the time when he talks, actually. The man has consistently been at the forefront of music as an industry both artistically and technologically.

This.

He's also a remarkably nice guy. No, no, I'm not a buddy of his. But I know him as a semi-regular customer. Extremely gracious. It's also hilarious when he smiles, after having carefully cultivated that image in the 90's. But yes, I agree with virtually all of his takes on the music industry.
However, it's that very monster who created him. Companies gamble on artists all of the time, losing money far more often than they make it. Thing is, when they make it, they make it hand over fist. I don't care what their logic is (the aforementioned gambling); they should still break off the artist far more than they are. But they didn't, and that's why most individual musicians, aside from an extremely vocal minority) weren't actually complaining about file-sharing when their shows were suddenly running at twice the capacity as the prior year, despite not having really sold any more albums.

Reznor can afford to be critical, but he was made by this beast with the black heart. I'm sure that he knows that. Fortunately for most, anyone with a modicum of talent and the discipline to learn ProTools (or similar) can produce his or her own album in his mom's basement. Artists are 'viral' these days just as some stupid video somewhere garners 40 million hits. It's a brave new world for musicians and other artists who were formerly at the mercy of Big Media. Hells yeah.

Stay Cool Babylon: Reznor can afford to be critical, but he was made by this beast with the black heart. I'm sure that he knows that.

True, to an extent. But You know how *I* found out about Pretty Hate Machine? I met this girl...

These informal networks of cool and information have been flowing for ages.

Winktologist: Thanks to the likes of iTunes and other sites like TrackItDown.net, you can be your own label. Thanks to technology, you can run ProTools (or something similar) in your bedroom, on your own PC, and get (if you're good enough) the same results as the pros.

Times, they are a changing, that's for sure.

I don't know that this is entirely true. The rise of bedroom recording has also made it possible for any jackass to record shiat that never should have been saved for posterity.

Additionally, most musicians do not understand in the slightest the role of a producer or engineer. There is a certain component to recording that no amount of software in the world can replace.

However, I agree that home recording has gotten good enough for a musician with talent to produce a workable, great-sounding project. There are a great many reasons why you simply cannot replace $2,000 microphones and $30,000 sound treatments with Waves IDR, but one of the nice things about this day in age (and I'm in agreement with this) is that there is a cetain amount of honesty that comes from indie studio productions.

But yes, with Cubse/Logic/Protools and $30K worth of gear, pretty much any one can make a product that used to take a $1,000,000 studio to record.

I've never been a huge fan of NIN music (just never really been exposed to it, what I have heard I have liked though), but have almost always agreed with the stance Trent takes on the music industry.

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Additionally, most musicians do not understand in the slightest the role of a producer or engineer. There is a certain component to recording that no amount of software in the world can replace.

The new issue of TapeOp has an interview with Sufjan Stevens and how he did all this engineering/producing stuff wrong. Still managed to make some records that people took notice of.

mekkab: Stay Cool Babylon: Reznor can afford to be critical, but he was made by this beast with the black heart. I'm sure that he knows that.

True, to an extent. But You know how *I* found out about Pretty Hate Machine? I met this girl...

These informal networks of cool and information have been flowing for ages.

I actually found out about it after sneaking into a strip club @15 years of age. The girl was dancing to Sanctified, and I still remember every inch of her when I hear the song. Side note - that was the last time a stripper anywhere in the world made a decent choice of music. Thereafter it was mostly cocaine hips and Toris Amos, and it didn't matter what city you were in...
But my point is that even if none of us got into NIN via MTV, etc., it was out there with decidedly more force than it would have been, otherwise. These days, I can throw my own music out there and truly rely on word of mouth, in a far more reliable fashion than leaning on my self-styled disaffected friends at the record stores of the 80's and 90's.

/my music sucks, tho

Winktologist: As in "Ok, you downloaded the file to your "My Documents" folder, so now go there." "What, how do I do that?"

To be fair, that's not exactly clear in XP.

You might look in the All Users folder, or the Admin folder, or your username. And then where is the file?

They should have simplified everything like linux. Choose a name, all your stuff is inside that folder. Done. No "documents and settings" then "your name" then "my documents" then "blah blah blah" then there's the file.

Holy sh*t--I just realized that Pretty Hate Machine came out TWENTY F*CKING YEARS AGO.

/my lawn, off, etc.

mekkab: HotLonelyTeenageGirl: Additionally, most musicians do not understand in the slightest the role of a producer or engineer. There is a certain component to recording that no amount of software in the world can replace.

The new issue of TapeOp has an interview with Sufjan Stevens and how he did all this engineering/producing stuff wrong. Still managed to make some records that people took notice of.

I don't disagree with this and would love to read that article, but the fact remains that there is a great deal more to the process than sitting down and hitting "record". and I say this as someone who started at 4-track cassette, and for whom 8-track ADAT was the greatest thing since sliced bread. There is a lot that goes into making a great sounding record, and these guys who are producing studio quality stuff in the home aren't just good songwriters with a copy of garageband and an SM-57.

for the record, I really don't think of myself as a great musician - i've long ago accepted my limitations and what little I do now I do for the love of music and creation. But one thing that I do know really, really well is how to make a good sounding recording and often wish I had sought work behind the desk rather than in front of it when I was younger.

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: I don't disagree with this and would love to read that article, but the fact remains that there is a great deal more to the process than sitting down and hitting "record". and I say this as someone who started at 4-track cassette, and for whom 8-track ADAT was the greatest thing since sliced bread. There is a lot that goes into making a great sounding record, and these guys who are producing studio quality stuff in the home aren't just good songwriters with a copy of garageband and an SM-57.

We are in firm agreement; I don't think you need a Neve console, but making something that sounds good on tape/cd whatever is in itself a talent.

However good song writing can overcome some technical limitations. The reverse is not true ;)

HotLonelyTeenageGirl: I say this as someone who started at 4-track cassette

I've still got my 4-track.
I work at a recording studio now and don't really need it, but I've still got it!

Winktologist:
Most non-IT people I know these days don't know their own machines beyond launching their web browser. Many of them struggle with the concept of files. As in "Ok, you downloaded the file to your "My Documents" folder, so now go there." "What, how do I do that?"

Wohoa what's this 'Your Documents' you're talking about?

Rookie_Balls: Winktologist:
Most non-IT people I know these days don't know their own machines beyond launching their web browser. Many of them struggle with the concept of files. As in "Ok, you downloaded the file to your "My Documents" folder, so now go there." "What, how do I do that?"

Wohoa what's this 'Your Documents' you're talking about?

ne2d: Holy sh*t--I just realized that Pretty Hate Machine came out TWENTY F*CKING YEARS AGO.

/my lawn, off, etc.

I had that realization a few weeks ago. It was painful.

Stay Cool Babylon: However, it's that very monster who created him. Companies gamble on artists all of the time, losing money far more often than they make it. Thing is, when they make it, they make it hand over fist. I don't care what their logic is (the aforementioned gambling); they should still break off the artist far more than they are. But they didn't, and that's why most individual musicians, aside from an extremely vocal minority) weren't actually complaining about file-sharing when their shows were suddenly running at twice the capacity as the prior year, despite not having really sold any more albums.

Reznor can afford to be critical, but he was made by this beast with the black heart. I'm sure that he knows that. Fortunately for most, anyone with a modicum of talent and the discipline to learn ProTools (or similar) can produce his or her own album in his mom's basement. Artists are 'viral' these days just as some stupid video somewhere garners 40 million hits. It's a brave new world for musicians and other artists who were formerly at the mercy of Big Media. Hells yeah.

+1: Insightful

mekkab:
However good song writing can overcome some technical limitations. The reverse is not true ;)

Those are some of the truest words ever spoken...

Rev. Skarekroe:
I've still got my 4-track.
I work at a recording studio now and don't really need it, but I've still got it!

I will say that I wish I had even an ounce of the ambition now that I did when all I had was a 4 track or an 8-track. It's actually kind of a pathetic state to have arrived in.

ne2d: Holy sh*t--I just realized that Pretty Hate Machine came out TWENTY F*CKING YEARS AGO.

/my lawn, off, etc.

My first copy was on vinyl.

Arrrgh! Bad post html. :(

Question to all the label ditchers.. how many bands today will still be touring in 20-30 years? Are the bands of today that bad or the bands from the 70's & 80's that much better. Could they just better promoted?

you can run ProTools (or something similar) in your bedroom, on your own PC, and get (if you're good enough) the same results as the pros.

Hey winktologist. You don't understand a thing about recording music. Don't post about it.

mekkab:

True, to an extent. But You know how *I* found out about Pretty Hate Machine? I met this girl...

These informal networks of cool and information have been flowing for ages.

Most of the people I knew back in the day who got into NIN first heard about them because of the t-shirts.



/yes, back in my day viral marketing was called "t-shirts"
//lawn, off, etc.

Local music scenes seem to be hopping. Out of work people are making bands to survive. One issue I see is that since the advent of recorded music a gargantuan catalog has been amassed, and so we are surrounded and sometimes bombarded by music. It's hard to know if your idea is original or something that was embedded in your mind years ago...

Rev.K: FTA:

Reznor says, "Anyone who's an executive at a record label does not understand what the internet is, how it works, how people use it, how fans and consumers interact - no idea. I'm surprised they know how to use email. They have built a business around selling plastic discs, and nobody wants plastic discs any more. They're in such a state of denial it's impossible for them to understand what's happening".

Say what you will about Reznor, but he's 100% correct here.

OK. His voice sounds just like Weird Al's. Good composer and decent, if whiny, lyricist.

And he's right.

Say what you want about Courtney Love, but she lays out all of this in a great speech back in 2000. About 8 years ago.

what, no ?

I'm not being a hater here. I know at least 10 NIN songs by heart (involuntary though). Can anyone on this thread explain to me why Trent is such a "genius"?

Everytime I ask a fan, the answer is just:

"Dude, NIN, man! Trent farkin'Reznor!"

cabritosaurio: I'm not being a hater here. I know at least 10 NIN songs by heart (involuntary though). Can anyone on this thread explain to me why Trent is such a "genius"?

Everytime I ask a fan, the answer is just:

"Dude, NIN, man! Trent farkin'Reznor!"

No, they can't explain it, because you can't explain why music is good. Just throw your hands up and stay out of the thread.

palexc: If he really wants to change things, he should start providing resources, ideas, support, know-how to up and comers to self-start.

He's helping DJs at least: http://remix.nin.com/

xeus8: cabritosaurio: I'm not being a hater here. I know at least 10 NIN songs by heart (involuntary though). Can anyone on this thread explain to me why Trent is such a "genius"?

Everytime I ask a fan, the answer is just:

"Dude, NIN, man! Trent farkin'Reznor!"

No, they can't explain it, because you can't explain why music is good. Just throw your hands up and stay out of the thread.

Just so you know, Trent Reznor would be a nobody if it wasn't for Marilyn Mans.................bah, too late, too tired, too uninterested for a troll attempt.

cabritosaurio: I'm not being a hater here. I know at least 10 NIN songs by heart (involuntary though). Can anyone on this thread explain to me why Trent is such a "genius"?

Everytime I ask a fan, the answer is just:

"Dude, NIN, man! Trent farkin'Reznor!"

Define the appeal of Bach's organ works and I'll answer your question.

2wolves: cabritosaurio: I'm not being a hater here. I know at least 10 NIN songs by heart (involuntary though). Can anyone on this thread explain to me why Trent is such a "genius"?

Everytime I ask a fan, the answer is just:

"Dude, NIN, man! Trent farkin'Reznor!"

Define the appeal of Bach's organ works and I'll answer your question.

It goes *pam paM pAm POM pom Pam pam*.

It's really captivating

Winktologist: Thanks to the likes of iTunes and other sites like TrackItDown.net, you can be your own label. Thanks to technology, you can run ProTools (or something similar) in your bedroom, on your own PC, and get (if you're good enough) the same results as the pros.

Times, they are a changing, that's for sure.

I hate to tell you this, but iTunes rips off independent artists on a regular basis.

I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the artist who just recently uploaded his album on the internet to actually prevent iTunes sales. Can someone help me out here?

Glitchwerks: Winktologist: Thanks to the likes of iTunes and other sites like TrackItDown.net, you can be your own label. Thanks to technology, you can run ProTools (or something similar) in your bedroom, on your own PC, and get (if you're good enough) the same results as the pros.

Times, they are a changing, that's for sure.

I hate to tell you this, but iTunes rips off independent artists on a regular basis.

I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the artist who just recently uploaded his album on the internet to actually prevent iTunes sales. Can someone help me out here?

I think that would be Mr.Genius I just mentioned. What do I win?

I listen to Pink Floyd, and there's a guitar soaring above me and shivering my spine.

Score one for high budgets. The Blue Oyster Cult I'm hearing right now is pretty damn good sounding as well.

I still say you don't need any sort of meaningful budget to record music. Why is that?

Innumerable underground bands nobody listens to can do just fine, while Metallica ended up with Death Magnetic, an album with drums which make me wince. Rush's Vapor Trails is an unlistenable mush. Much of popular modern music is just obnoxious in terms of production post-loudness war. The biggest real threat in production is too much of it completely screwing up the music.

yeah... i've always heard/read that musicians/bands don't get that much money from their albums [unless they sell a hell of a lot of copies, ala Thriller or Rumours or DSOTM]
but that they get the most of their riches/$$$ from touring.

What a news flash that record companies screw their artists, have been for generations, and generally don't care much for the internet thingy. Welcome to the world Treentr

That's not the reason why NIN doesn't sell many albums anymore, as much as Reznor wants to believe that. Their audience grew up and doesn't have any use for Reznor's wall of sound angst any more. They picked up some new fans, but not nearly as many as he had 15 years ago.

If he could sell as many as he used to, he sure as hell wouldn't be giving it away.

cabritosaurio: I think that would be Mr.Genius I just mentioned. What do I win?

Mr. Genius? No, I am being serious here.

I can see the album cover in my mind, the dude did a whole interview on how iTunes was ripping him off. I am distracted and not following the whole conversation so I guess I'll come back later.