'bout damn time.

Glad no one saw this coming...

But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

The sad thing is that states are just now realizing that you can't build a prison industry and keep it funded without some repercussions.

Prisons costs states money. These asinine laws cost the courts money. Police enforcement and crackdowns cost money. And it's not money that just comes from trees, but out of state coffers.

The flaw in the method used, is that it has never been about getting tough on crime, it's been about subsidizing industries and handing out cash to favored programs--chaired and headed by folks who then lend a hand in time for elections. It has never been about actually solving problems, but keeping that cash flow going and headed in the "right" directions.

Only now, as states face budgetary shortfalls, and bills are coming due again and again, and states realize that their police forces are ill equipped for handling the crime problems that they've emphasized, and their policies have blow back from, that they can see where things are going.

And sadly, it shows that folks are less concerned about the real problem, than dealing with the symptoms. Easier to throw a bandage over a gaping wound, than actually treating it and sewing it up...

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

Prostitutes. Duh.

hubiestubert: RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

Prostitutes. Duh.

The righteous really do need someone to look down upon and scorn.

intersting???
did the FARKING OBVIOUS TAG EXPLODE ?!

/crap too many !s

2wolves: hubiestubert: RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

Prostitutes. Duh.

The righteous really do need someone to look down upon and scorn.

couldnt they look down on the righteous?
/you know as the hypocritcal selfrighteous bastards that they are?

namatad: couldnt they look down on the righteous?

Righteous people don't look down on anyone. Self-righteous people do.

I hate "Zero Tolerance". Since when did tolerance become a bad thing?

Zero Tolerance makes Baby Jesus cry.

People are going to get away with ingesting substances (other than caffeine, nicotine and alcohol) recreationally? MY GOD THE HORROR

Surely society will collapse. All of the productive members will suddenly say 'fark it' and become junkies. WE'RE DOOMED

Zero tolerance = zero common sense.

they've run out of prison cells to put people and can't afford to feed the people already in them

Two problems, one solution. Tastes like chicken pork.

Are there no prisons, no workhouses?

hubiestubert: Prisons costs states money.

Taking people out of the work force to fill the prisons cost money too.

See? The market always corrects itself.

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

Atheists?

No, wait, atheists and Dungeons and Dragons.


And maybe Seth Rogan.

Here's an idea. Take all of the drug offenders and seal them off on Manhattan island. Evacuate all of the good citizens and send then anywhere, since America will be a paradise without drug users. Any new offenders could be send to the island, where nobody would be able to escape because all of the bridges are mined and the beaches patrolled.

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

God?

Wait, wait, WAIT!

Why would they do this?! The system WORKS. Drugs are off the streets!

beve: I hate "Zero Tolerance". Since when did tolerance become a bad thing?

Zero Tolerance makes Baby Jesus cry.

Zero Tolerance makes freedom disappear

Muta: hubiestubert: Prisons costs states money.

Taking people out of the work force to fill the prisons cost money too.

Let's not even get into the faux prosperity that towns who rely on a state run institution for their job market have. The prison industry is essentially a shell game with tax payer dollars and it does little to preserve either safety nor does it promote a more law abiding population.

But it does provide a decent pension if you can make it that long...

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

Immigrants?


/Dobbs

hubiestubert: Let's not even get into the faux prosperity that towns who rely on a state run institution for their job market have.

And they always forget the fact that the state can always pull up stakes and put the facility in some other town.

a for profit prison industry.

another gift that ronald mc reagan left us with.

voltair's basterd luv child number 9: a for profit prison industry.

another gift that ronald mc reagan left us with.

I'm sure he wouldn't remember much about it...

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

Criminals can eventually straighten themselves right up. For example Brits sent criminals to Australia... never mind that doesn't prove anything.

Bored Horde: Righteous people don't look down on anyone. Self-righteous people do.

DAMNIT
right you are

of course, the self righteous all think that they are righteous ...

We can replace the war on drugs with the war on religion. Arrest all religious people. Raid the churches, temples and mosques first. People should keep their religions to themselves.

Unsustainable system is unsustainable.

Color me shocked.

You mean 'soft on crime' as a 30 year epithet is coming to an end because of reality?

I have my doubts. Reaganites still exist.

RainWhenIDie: But what will we blame all of society's problems on if not drugs?

My pick would be the people who have been distracting us from their shortcomings with a series of scapegoats for all of society's problems. You know, congress et al.

pnjunction: People are going to get away with ingesting substances (other than caffeine, nicotine and alcohol) recreationally? MY GOD THE HORROR

Surely society will collapse. All of the productive members will suddenly say 'fark it' and become junkies. WE'RE DOOMED

The thing nobody seems to remember is that junkies have to eat too. Not everyone who uses/would use drugs relishes the thought of living as a street person. I know you're not serious, but it makes me facepalm every time I hear that old "But if we legalize, everyone will become a heroin addict and nobody will work!" WHARRGARBLE from prohibitionists.

I do not support zero tolerance or mandatory sentences for any drug crimes, and support the legalization of marijuana.

I DO support laws like the 10 20 life law we have in Florida, and other "gun laws" around the country that target violent criminals that misuse guns.

. . . can't afford to feed the people already in them

Sounds like a problem that will eventually work itself out, no?

mehtoole: Evacuate all of the good citizens

ummm
which good ones?
according to most people there are no good people living in the city

namatad: mehtoole: Evacuate all of the good citizens

ummm
which good ones?
according to most people there are no good people living in the city

Well, that certainly makes the whole operation easier, doesn't it?

Not if the States want Federal $$.

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: I DO support laws like the 10 20 life law we have in Florida

CRAP
are you saying there florida MIGHT have SOMETHING which is NOT "florida" tag worthy

SHOCKED
SHOCKED I SAY

GaryPDX: Not if the States want Federal $$.

Do they get anywhere near enough federal money to cover their costs? Do they ever when that particular truncheon is used?

namatad: JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: I DO support laws like the 10 20 life law we have in Florida

CRAP
are you saying there florida MIGHT have SOMETHING which is NOT "florida" tag worthy

SHOCKED
SHOCKED I SAY

PLENTY of people get the Florida tag when they shoot themselves in the leg pulling their gun during a robbery, and get a mandatory 20 year sentence when the cops follow their blood trail.

Dictatorial_Flair: GaryPDX: Not if the States want Federal $$.

Do they get anywhere near enough federal money to cover their costs? Do they ever when that particular truncheon is used?

I don't think so but that is the Federal yoke on the necks of the States, and now businesses, next up people directly. States can do a lot more but the Fed stops them by threatening to cut off federal $$. Also, everyone says they want "energy independence". Nobody is going to let anyone be "independent"..lol. Energy is the yoke on the People. o it will you still have a choice. Just think, if everyone was producing just enough energy for their own personal usage, the whole nation would be independent of foreign energy. But the powers to be just want you to switch Energy Masters and depend on the government.

/it's a trap..:)

JimmyCarter'sSecondTerm: I do not support zero tolerance or mandatory sentences for any drug crimes, and support the legalization of marijuana.

I DO support laws like the 10 20 life law we have in Florida, and other "gun laws" around the country that target violent criminals that misuse guns.

And yet in every other imaginable situation you seem like a total whackjob. Marijuana: the great uniter of Farkers.

My list of solutions, because I know everything (that is sarcasm, for anyone who was looking for a fight)
a) less cable, AC, and heat for prisons. It's a prison, not a farking vacation home
b) Instead of drug offenders being sent to prison, why not have more of them cleaning up roadsides and mowing public spaces? That would be much better than having them just sit around and eat in prisons.
c) I think we've forgotten the power of public shame. Bring back stocks in the town square! (I was thinking of this while reading a thread yesterday about the thieving TSA agents. Some one suggested that the thief be put in a clear box in the middle of the terminal, so people could tell the bastard what they thought. I think it's a fabulous idea.) Alas, some precious snowflake and his lawyer would probably consider getting verbally abused "cruel and unusual."

where's the obvious tab?

Does anyone has the stats on the number of people incarcerated for marijuana possession and such? I am looking for them but my google fu is weak

mehtoole: Here's an idea. Take all of the drug offenders and seal them off on Manhattan island. Evacuate all of the good citizens and send then anywhere, since America will be a paradise without drug users. Any new offenders could be send to the island, where nobody would be able to escape because all of the bridges are mined and the beaches patrolled.

This sounds like an amazing idea for a documentary.

elle_vt: My list of solutions, because I know everything (that is sarcasm, for anyone who was looking for a fight)
a) less cable, AC, and heat for prisons. It's a prison, not a farking vacation home
b) Instead of drug offenders being sent to prison, why not have more of them cleaning up roadsides and mowing public spaces? That would be much better than having them just sit around and eat in prisons.
c) I think we've forgotten the power of public shame. Bring back stocks in the town square! (I was thinking of this while reading a thread yesterday about the thieving TSA agents. Some one suggested that the thief be put in a clear box in the middle of the terminal, so people could tell the bastard what they thought. I think it's a fabulous idea.) Alas, some precious snowflake and his lawyer would probably consider getting verbally abused "cruel and unusual."

a)I can understand your general point, but at the same time think it through: a building full of criminals, without any good climate control or any means of entertainment to pacify/distract them. So, they're extremely hot/cold, very uncomfortable, and bored as hell. What do you think they're going to do? Sit in thier cells and go "well, serves me right I guess". No, they're going to get pissed, and riot. So, you've just upped the normal daily operating cost of the prison, cause you're going to have to call in extra guards to quell the riot, and if any of the guards get hurt, you're now paying out workmans comp as well. Yes, prison is supposed to be a punishment, and it is. People that believe that your typical prison is some kind of state-run club med have never been to one (on either side of the bars). I would think that having to live every day with the threat of anal rape hanging over your tender virgin butt-cherry would go along way towards punishing someone. Also, that whole 'not free, can't do as you please' thing would kinda blow too.

b)For starters, many prisons already have programs like this in place, and even if the prisoners don't leave the prison there are alot of menial jobs that they do for sub-minimum-wage. Also, considering we're talking about prisons being too costly, the more inmates you have on community assignments, the more it costs. Transportation, extra guards, food, equipment. Even if they were just sitting around all day in thier cells doing nothing, that would cost less than community jobs.

c)We already have a type of public shame that follows convicts around. It's called a record and it can seriously fark with thier lives once out of prison. It can keep them from getting all but the most menial of jobs (and thus keeps them poor, which in turn makes it more likely they'll turn back to crime). In alot of states, they have to have thier records expunged in order to get back rights taht most of us take for granted, like voting. For drug convictions, it prevents them from recieving any federal financial aid, which, when coupled with thier alread poor job prospects, means that they'll be in poverty or close to it (as well as thier families).


I'm not suggesting we coddle criminals, but I don't get the 'punish them forever' mindset. If you want a person to pay for the rest of thier lives for a mistake that they made, fine, but be prepared to reap what you sow. I'd rather have a justice system and a society that is geared towards trying to make sure that these people don't turn back to crime.

UNCPWAD: Does anyone has the stats on the number of people incarcerated for marijuana possession and such? I am looking for them but my google fu is weak

The National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (obviously, you shouldn't be surprised if these numbers are inflated for bias, but they've done more research than I have, and they claim to quote the FBI Uniform Crime Report) states that in 2001, 723,627 people were arrested for marijuana related charges in the United States, 88.6% of whom, or about 641,108, were arrested for possession and not sale or cultivation.

http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5444

That's a pretty high number, even assuming that some of these were arrests for littering AND smoking the reefer.

While I was in law school, I sat through some hearings for misdemeanor charges at a county court. There were several cases for otherwise decent college kids who got picked up for having a joint on their person. The judge was pretty hard on one kid, who had (by his word) good grades, as if smoking a joint was going to lead to the kid giving up on life, selling handjobs for crack, and voting Green Party.

Why are we wasting the court's resources and peoples' reputations on cases like this?

Fear not Obamatons. The War on Drugs is about to be replaced with a rekindling of the War on Poverty (or the War on Prosperity). Working so well in the Carter Administration, Obama has once again declared war on the concept of success. Yay!