I am one of these spies. Mainly for restaurants, not bars. I've also gotten paid to work out.

And I am getting my oil changed for free today.

Bar owners are always convinced everybody's stealing from them.

Usually they're right, but it's always the ones they don't suspect.

I had no idea this sort of thing was against bar tending rules.

What about those free doughnuts from various doughnut vendors?

Oh god... what have I done?

Lindholm also noted the failure to "up-sell" to a high-end alcohol brand.

Ugh. I realize that this is a standard in just about every industry, but there is almost nothing that I hate more as a consumer than an attempt at an upsell.

My bar does this. And they have cameras everywhere.

House of Tards: Lindholm also noted the failure to "up-sell" to a high-end alcohol brand.

Ugh. I realize that this is a standard in just about every industry, but there is almost nothing that I hate more as a consumer than an attempt at an upsell.

This... When I go to a bar I usually know what I like and what I'm willing to pay for. It also puts servers in the bad position of being annoying the very people they depend on for their paychecks.

A good bartender knows how to stoke business by the judicious use of free drinks to regulars. Smart bar owners know this.

House of Tards: Lindholm also noted the failure to "up-sell" to a high-end alcohol brand.

Ugh. I realize that this is a standard in just about every industry, but there is almost nothing that I hate more as a consumer than an attempt at an upsell.

Totally unnecessary to upsell drinks. People are idiots without pressing them.

God bless women. I can't count the number of "Grey Goose Cosmopolitans" I've mixed - - as though you're going to detect the subtleties of an upscale vodka that's just been drowned in CRANBERRY JUICE.

/"Let me have a Patron Margarita!" - - will do, sweetie.

Wouldn't paying the spies cost more than the free drinks??

40below: A good bartender knows how to stoke business by the judicious use of free drinks to regulars. Smart bar owners know this.

Agreed.

FTFA: "They typically give away a drink to earn a better tip," Gutin said.

You got a problem with a "buy back"?
Well hey, excuse me while I take my business to a place that doesn't.

Seriously, If I buy 3 or 4 drinks and you don't give me a little something from time to time, I'll move on to someplace better. The owners doing this have their eyes on the dollars going out and pay no attention to the dollars that come back in because of buy backs. They just assume that we'll come back to their overpriced shiathole anyway, so fark 'em.

DarthBrooks: God bless women. I can't count the number of "Grey Goose Cosmopolitans" I've mixed - - as though you're going to detect the subtleties of an upscale vodka that's just been drowned in CRANBERRY JUICE.

/"Let me have a Patron Margarita!" - - will do, sweetie.


First dirty martini of the night, I can taste the difference in the vodka, after the 2nd, not so much. When it comes to margaritas, I get repasado which a little pricier, but you can taste the difference in the flavor. However, I usually go with a "good" but lower priced brand like Jimador or Sauza Hornitos for tequila mixers. But once again, after a couple it doesn't really matter.

I worked for a bar owner who was so paranoid that everyone was stealing from him that he had every bartender use shotglasses to measure out liquor - on the bar, in front of the customers - even on Friday nights! And he had his relatives come into the bar to make sure this was going on all the time when he wasn't there. "Don't you guys know how to pour a damn DRINK?" was the constant question from the customers. Awful place.

What the owner never figured out was that he was losing money through the restaurant side -- - his exec chef was basically running a butcher shop out of the kitchen and selling steaks and chops and pocketing the sales out of overage. The owner sold the place because he couldn't figure out where all his money was going.

rcain:
First dirty martini of the night, I can taste the difference in the vodka, after the 2nd, not so much. When it comes to margaritas, I get repasado which a little pricier, but you can taste the difference in the flavor. However, I usually go with a "good" but lower priced brand like Jimador or Sauza Hornitos for tequila mixers. But once again, after a couple it doesn't really matter.

A martini is different - no fruit juices. THAT is where an upscale liquor matters.

But with Cosmopolitans? You could probably pour mouthwash into cranberry juice and tell people it's vodka.

DarthBrooks:

But with Cosmopolitans? You could probably pour mouthwash into cranberry juice and tell people it's vodka.

Ewww. That sounds disgusting.

I'll stick with martinis.

40below: A good bartender knows how to stoke business by the judicious use of free drinks to regulars. Smart bar owners know this.

This.

I used to go to dive bars with live entertainment all the time when I was friends with some guys in a band. A bartender that keeps people coming back for more with a strong mixed drink or an occasional freebie to get someone started, will make the owner far more money in the long run than someone who serves weak drinks and stops at the register for 20 seconds between every single $2 domestic they hand out.

The same rules may not apply to a bar at a five star hotel... But overall, dive bar or classy place, heavy drinkers won't frequent an establishment that is full of nerdy uptight barkeeps who are counting the seconds on every pour, or constantly on the lookout for spies for hire.

ExJerseyGirl: Ewww. That sounds disgusting.

I'll stick with martinis.

Profile for details.

rcain:
Seriously, If I buy 3 or 4 drinks and you don't give me a little something from time to time, I'll move on to someplace better.

This. If I'm at a new bar, I don't *want* to see the bartender measuring his drinks with precision. I want to see a healthy pour, or I'm moving to beer. Beer or liquor, if I'm a regular and I tip well, a drink on the house is going to get me to come back with friends repeatedly.

Keeping your cost of goods percentage within the approved corporate range is all well and good, but if you're only serving 10 people a night, you're still going out of business.

Now if the bar's COG on liquor sales is really really high, that's one thing, but a few free drinks can create longer stays and volume, both of which you want at a bar.

TGIF is using spies right now. But they are only checking to see if patrons who are 21 to 27 are getting carded, none of this up-sell stuff.

DarthBrooks: Bar owners are always convinced everybody's stealing from them.

Usually they're right, but it's always the ones they don't suspect.

Yep. Themselves.

The bar owners that are the most paranoid tend to be the ones who are stealing from themselves, and don't even realize it.

They give out free meals and drinks. They always eat and drink for free, and often have friends and family over to do the same. If they need a few bucks for something, they take it out of the till. Sometimes they give themselves a loan by waiting a while to make that nightly deposit.

After all, it's their business, right?

Some of my favorite bars have closed because the owners stole from themselves and didn't realize it.

When things start going bad, the books won't balance with a sledge hammer, and employee turnover rate starts rising, I've also seen the next step.

Blame.

There are obviously problems in the business, so it must be the employees. Ridiculous measures are taken to make sure that employees are the thieves that you know they are, dammit. This helps morale a whole bunch, and customers can't help but notice that Freida the Friendly Barmaid is now being treated like Freddy Krueger trying to sneak into the Vatican.

This leads to another problem. Perfectly normal employees who are treated like thieves will do one of three things, and the least likely of those is to suddenly become way lots more honest.

When a business is losing money, look at the most common element. Usually, it has something to do with the owner ;)

I pay you $150 to spy on my bar and I come in this morning the register is $1,500 short and over half of the top-shelf took a walk. You sonofabiatch, the bartender must have been pouring free drinks all night!

After my seventh mojito, the Rumskies made a better offer and I decided to became a double-agent.

40below: A good bartender knows how to stoke business by the judicious use of free drinks to regulars. Smart bar owners know this.

This too. A group of friends and I go to this one bar each week. There's nothing overly special about it, except the bartender is a casual friend of ours, and he gives us free stuff every couple rounds. The result is that there are 4 of us there each week, and there are times we bring in other friends, which results in bigger groups. With the actual cost of each drink to the bar being FAR less than the price customers pays, it behooves a bar to give out freebies and keep us coming back.

SpinStopper: They give out free meals and drinks. They always eat and drink for free, and often have friends and family over to do the same. If they need a few bucks for something, they take it out of the till. Sometimes they give themselves a loan by waiting a while to make that nightly deposit.

The most paranoid owner I ever worked for told me the following joke the first night I worked for him:

Q: What do you get when you cross a gorilla with a bartender?

A: A monkey that steals from you.

Like you say, bar owners are their own worst enemies.

There have been a *very* few that understand the business, but those are the surprises - -- I worked for the Iron Hill restaurant group in PA and they know their stuff - - but for the most part, bar owners are either (1) ex-bartenders who think they know how to run a business or (2) children of bar owners who inherited the business, don't have a clue how the business works because Dad never explained stuff to them, and they'd rather be doing something else.

ExJerseyGirl: TGIF is using spies right now. But they are only checking to see if patrons who are 21 to 27 are getting carded, none of this up-sell stuff.

That's bad for business too. Let me tell you a story.

About eight or nine years ago, my friend and I went to the local TGIF all the time. We spent TONS of money there. TONS. Ridiculous amounts of money. We also often brought other people (who didn't like the place so much) with us. They spent TONS of money there too, because of us.

So one night, my friend and I go there, and we take his new girlfriend who was 22 or 23 at the time I think. Whatever age she was, she was legal. The waitress comes over, and offers us drinks before she takes our order. I got a beer, but my friend's girl decides she doesn't want a drink, but whipped him in to ordering some giant fruity thing, so she could "have a sip."

The waitress didn't card any of us, and brought us our drinks. All of a sudden (and I wouldn't be surprised if a "spy" was involved) the manager comes over, and in a tone of voice I'd expect from a police officer questioning a group of murder suspects, screamed "I need ID from all of you. RIGHT NOW!!!!1!!!!!11 GET THEM OUT!!!" People all over the room turned around to stare.

So I pull my ID, my friend pulls his ID, and his girl starts going through her purse. Well, she says "Uh, damnit where the fark is my license..."

Then the guy grabs my drink and grabs my friend's off the table. He tells us that we have to pay for the drinks even though we didn't get to drink them, and are banned from drinking alcohol for the rest of the night. Then he tells us that if he sees either of us with a drink in his establishment again within 24 hours, he will call the police and have us both arrested for serving alcohol to a minor.

So while people are now LAUGHING at us, the girl finds her license and shows it to him. He says "You have to understand, there are laws and I could get fined," puts my friend's drink in front of me and my drink in front of him, and walks away unapologetically.

We all walked out, and I haven't set foot in ANY of those overpriced TGIF shiatholes in the almost decade since it happened.

I liked their burgers so I paid for their overpriced booze, but I've never been treated that shiatty by a restaurant in my life... not before that night, and not since.

"Bar spies" are the new "efficiency experts."
All they do is alienate people.

SpeshilEdjukashin: So while people are now LAUGHING at us, the girl finds her license and shows it to him. He says "You have to understand, there are laws and I could get fined," puts my friend's drink in front of me and my drink in front of him, and walks away unapologetically.

Not sure what it is in your area, but the current zero tolerance laws in PA are thus:

First underage drink served? $10,000 fine to the establishment, $1,000 fine to the license holder, $1,000 fine to manager-on-duty, $1,000 fine to the bartender.

Second offense? Bar closed for 30 days.

Those are the stakes, so if the manager's touchy about that, and there's some uncarded girl sitting there going "hmm- let's see if [giggle] I brought my ID with me hmmm" definitely expect that the manager is going to have apoplexy over the situation. Waitress probably got fired or at least lost her weekend hours for a few months.

Screwing around with the liquor license is like messing with the engine for the entire establishment.

SpeshilEdjukashin: "Bar spies" are the new "efficiency experts."
All they do is alienate people.

Sounds like the manager over reacted, to say the least. The bar spies at TGIF only check to see if they are carded, not other patrons.

Most of the time spies do not let ANYONE know that they are evaluating service, so I really don't see how they are alienating people.

DarthBrooks: Not sure what it is in your area, but the current zero tolerance laws in PA are thus: First underage drink served? $10,000 fine to the establishment, $1,000 fine to the license holder, $1,000 fine to manager-on-duty, $1,000 fine to the bartender. Second offense? Bar closed for 30 days. Those are the stakes, so if the manager's touchy about that, and there's some uncarded girl sitting there going "hmm- let's see if [giggle] I brought my ID with me hmmm" definitely expect that the manager is going to have apoplexy over the situation. Waitress probably got fired or at least lost her weekend hours for a few months. Screwing around with the liquor license is like messing with the engine for the entire establishment.

We were:

1) Screamed at
2) Ridiculed in front of hundreds of people
3) Accused of a crime in front of hundreds of people
4) Threatened with arrest in front of hundreds of people

Why did it happen:

1) Because the waitress didn't do her job in the first place
2) Because it took a girl we brought 45 seconds to find her ID instead of 10

The point is, the paranoia has to stop. If the waitress politely carded us before serving us, we wouldn't have had a problem. If the manager who found out we wern't carded was polite, we wouldn't have a problem.

But we had a problem; Because owners, be them single bar owners or large corporations, have everyone so afraid of losing their job that nobody cares about the customer anymore.

/Spies? REALLY? Do they really need paid spies?

ExJerseyGirl: ost of the time spies do not let ANYONE know that they are evaluating service, so I really don't see how they are alienating people.

Because the employees become so paranoid that the level of service they provide and their attitude toward the patrons both start to suck.

SpeshilEdjukashin: Because the employees become so paranoid that the level of service they provide and their attitude toward the patrons both start to suck.

What are you talking about? I've done about a dozen restaurant evaluations. I did not notice any paranoid behavior or bad service because these are chains that use secret evaluators. In fact the service was good to excellent every single time.

I am getting paid to eat dinner tonight and I will provide a thoughtful and accurate evaluation, answering very specific questions. (Were there napkins on the counter, was the restroom clean, etc.)

SpeshilEdjukashin: The point is, the paranoia has to stop. If the waitress politely carded us before serving us, we wouldn't have had a problem. If the manager who found out we wern't carded was polite, we wouldn't have a problem.

But we had a problem; Because owners, be them single bar owners or large corporations, have everyone so afraid of losing their job that nobody cares about the customer anymore.

The point is they can't *afford* to care about the customer. There will be other customers, but not if the liquor license goes away.

It's the zero-tolerance insanity that's changed the nature of the business.

And it's not just criminal law -- anyone can sue the company if the wrong person gets served. If some 20-year-old manages to order a Long Island Tea and then runs over someone, they're going to get their legal fees and downstream civil suits paid for by the bar owner who didn't fire the waitress who served the drink. The pressure of all this makes for paranoid managers and draconian "customer service."

I think 90% of the problem would go away if the drinking age went back to 18, but the current political situation puts this off the table for at least another decade or two. Hell, the FDA is now in charge of cigarettes, so it's going to be Mamma Knows Best for quite a while.

DarthBrooks: The point is they can't *afford* to care about the customer. There will be other customers, but not if the liquor license goes away.

I hear what you're saying, but the problem was the waitress, not us. And he could have spoken to us politely, without humiliating us. I don't care if the government is a pain in their asses or not when I'm paying $6 for a 60 cent beer.

I remember back when I managed a TGIF. We always had a problem with underaged drinking kids. They come in, order their drinks and start chugging them as fast as they can before we can spot them and bounce them.

One night this paticular raucous group shows up and pretend like they own the place. None of them looked older than 16. Our bimbo waitress "forgets" to card them, but thank god our spy let me know what was happening. I storm over there and try to scare some respect for authority into them by demanding to see the IDs I know they don't got. Sure enough, one of them starts fumbling around and pulling the "Gee shucks, where did I put my ID trick". I snatched their ill-gotten booze from them, but that dumb slut finally found her fake ID so I had no recourse but to let them stay. Then they made a big deal about how they were never coming back (never seen them before anyways).

But I digress, and thank God for bar spies.

DarthBrooks: Totally unnecessary to upsell drinks. People are idiots without pressing them.

God bless women. I can't count the number of "Grey Goose Cosmopolitans" I've mixed - - as though you're going to detect the subtleties of an upscale vodka that's just been drowned in CRANBERRY JUICE.

/"Let me have a Patron Margarita!" - - will do, sweetie.

LOL, finally somebody cops to this!!! I always laugh when I see that for an extra 5 bucks, your margarita will be mixed with 150 dollar-a-bottle tequila. It'll go really well with the 50 cent-a-bottle plastic-tasting lime juice they'll put on it.

Which reminds me, the next upsell in margaritas is in the salt. Black sea salt, or some other fancy gourmet foodie salt that's out there. Mark my words!!!!

/loves a good margarita
//made with the cheap stuff.

rcain: I get repasado

repasado = "passed through again"--you probably don't want that kind, unless it's a fetish thing for you.
reposado = "aged"

Unright: I remember back when I managed a TGIF. We always had a problem with underaged drinking kids. They come in, order their drinks and start chugging them as fast as they can before we can spot them and bounce them.

What you did. I see it.

40below: A good bartender knows how to stoke business by the judicious use of free drinks to regulars. Smart bar owners know this.

Yup. The one pub I go to I end up paying for half my drinks. Mind you I've been playing there for years and back in the day did a lot of repairs to the joint.

House of Tards: Lindholm also noted the failure to "up-sell" to a high-end alcohol brand.

Ugh. I realize that this is a standard in just about every industry, but there is almost nothing that I hate more as a consumer than an attempt at an upsell.

As someone who has tended bar and waited tables, and hit sales records that my coworkers could not, I still got into constant arguments with my bosses about how the level of upselling they recommend turns off the customers and would be the last thing I want to do.

Suggest an app? Check.
Suggest a desert? Check.
Take something a customer orders and offer a suggestion to tweak it that might make it better? Sometimes a check.

In terms of something like a drink, every goddamn person who has ever ordered a vodka and tonic is fully aware that vodkas other than 5 o clock exist. They don't need to be reminded every time they show up.

Otoh, a customer who has ordered a hawaiian pizza 3 times a row is likely open to the idea of having bacon added to it.

Its seeing how the customer orders and changing your game based on the customer that makes it work. But you have restaurant managers who never waited on a table in their life telling servers how to do their job.

Secret shoppers don't know their ass from their elbow either. Most are terribly obvious, and even those that aren't are portraying themselves as a different customer than they would naturally be, and as a result even a good server won't necessarily leave them with what they would appreciate as good service.

rga184: Which reminds me, the next upsell in margaritas is in the salt. Black sea salt, or some other fancy gourmet foodie salt that's out there. Mark my words!!!!

That is actually a good idea :)

Unright: Sure enough, one of them starts fumbling around and pulling the "Gee shucks, where did I put my ID trick". I snatched their ill-gotten booze from them, but that dumb slut finally found her fake ID so I had no recourse but to let them stay. Then they made a big deal about how they were never coming back (never seen them before anyways).

Well played

rcain: DarthBrooks: God bless women. I can't count the number of "Grey Goose Cosmopolitans" I've mixed - - as though you're going to detect the subtleties of an upscale vodka that's just been drowned in CRANBERRY JUICE.

/"Let me have a Patron Margarita!" - - will do, sweetie.


First dirty martini of the night, I can taste the difference in the vodka, after the 2nd, not so much. When it comes to margaritas, I get repasado which a little pricier, but you can taste the difference in the flavor. However, I usually go with a "good" but lower priced brand like Jimador or Sauza Hornitos for tequila mixers. But once again, after a couple it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, I was going to say this.... You can taste the difference with tequilas, even when mixed, because tequila is meant to taste like something. (And good tequila is nice straight. Yum yum.)

Although I have to say, the vodka makes a difference too, in a mixed drink. A vodka cranberry is REALLY NASTY with cheap, harsh vodka. Although Skyy vodka is just fine for me.

DarthBrooks: House of Tards: Lindholm also noted the failure to "up-sell" to a high-end alcohol brand.

Ugh. I realize that this is a standard in just about every industry, but there is almost nothing that I hate more as a consumer than an attempt at an upsell.

Totally unnecessary to upsell drinks. People are idiots without pressing them.

God bless women. I can't count the number of "Grey Goose Cosmopolitans" I've mixed - - as though you're going to detect the subtleties of an upscale vodka that's just been drowned in CRANBERRY JUICE.

/"Let me have a Patron Margarita!" - - will do, sweetie.

If you're drowning your Cosmos in cranberry juice you're doing it wrong. It's just the slightest dash needed for coloring.

Also, Grey Goose is garbage. The guy who invented had a brainstorm like this, "Hmmm...Americans think all French booze is quality. I'm going to distill this in France and slap a premium price on it and idiots will but it.". And they DO. It's the same guy who introduced Jager to the screaming college masses and who is responsible for Lil' John's "Crunk Juice".

Lastly, I don't know how you're making your making your margaritas, but using a good tequila is mandatory. 2oz Tequila, 1oz Cointreay, 1/2oz fresh squeezed lime juice. From the way you're going on though and the atrocious way I'm guessing you make your drinks, there's probably a pre-mix sour where you work for such things.

And to anyone who thinks measuring pours is the sign of an amateur, you're completely wrong. Making a good drink is much more akin to baking than cooking. If I put a 1/4oz too much of an ingredient into a drink it's going to throw off how it should taste. There is this thing called "craft bartending" which I get the feeling most of you are clueless about. It's not about quantity, it's about quality. Granted, I'm not measuring when I pour a rum and coke or a whiskey neat, but everything else? Hell yes.

One more thing and I'm done, I swear. If I gave buybacks to everyone who came in and ordered a few drinks, the place I work would be out of business REAL fast. Buybacks are saved for very special repeat customers. Not some faceless asshat who comes in expecting something. You don't expect free food when you go out to eat do you? Don't expect free drinks when you're at a bar.

Thank you and goodnight!

Smackledorfer: managers who never waited on a table done the job in question in their life telling servers their employees how to do their job.

FTFY. Easily applied to just about any business in America, today.

copperheadclgp: Smackledorfer: managers who never waited on a table done the job in question in their life telling servers their employees how to do their job.

FTFY. Easily applied to just about any business in America, today.

Yep, probably true across the board I'm sure. But hey, over a handful of years I saw corporate hire managers who bragged about what they got away with a previous management position (which they were eventually fired from) get hired and fired and get hired within a month to a new job as a manager somewhere else.

Its like for some reason, corporate offices think that anyone with zero management experience can't manage, and everyone who has ever been a manager is automatically qualified no matter how many referrences say they aren't eligible for rehire. blech.

Need Fark spies to keep the TF'ers witty.

Hmmmm....spend money on a spy to catch your employees giving away free booze...

I'm a bit 'mixed' on this..if they're stealing booze outright, that's an issue. but most bartenders will hook up regulars and good tippers so they keep coming back, in other words, they're guaranteeing more future business.

SpeshilEdjukashin: my friend and I went to the local TGIF all the time

Anybody who goes to TGIF frequently by choice deserves abuse.

Hector Remarkable: Need Fark spies to keep the TF'ers witty.

Drew makes money off the witless TFers.

This is crap. So many bars rip you off, blantantly, that giving out free drinks is the only way to balance it out. I'm not talking about drinks are high in a bar, but they say one price, and then your tab is 20% higher than that at the end of the night, and you know what you ordered. I don't go to trendy bars/club anymore. Only pubs now so I can avoid that crap. [I'm not cheap - if you tell me beers are 3.50 and I buy based on that number, and then you charge me 4.25 for them, that's fraud.]

Upselling is stupid, either you're too busy to actually do that as a bartender, or people are drinking things where it doesn't matter. I miss my favorite bar from college, I would go in, give the guy 20 bucks, and say, surprise me. Random shots were fantastic.

ihatedumbpeople: Hmmmm....spend money on a spy to catch your employees giving away free booze...

I'm a bit 'mixed' on this..if they're stealing booze outright, that's an issue. but most bartenders will hook up regulars and good tippers so they keep coming back, in other words, they're guaranteeing more future business.

No, they're guaranteeing more people looking for handouts. It's a truly nasty cycle.

Here's a nice article by Jeffrey Morgenthaler about buybacks.

TheOther: SpeshilEdjukashin: my friend and I went to the local TGIF all the time

Anybody who goes to TGIF frequently by choice deserves abuse.

Eh... sometimes those jack daniel's burgers really are just that good.

Lindholm also noted the failure to "up-sell" to a high-end alcohol brand.

Rule one of customer service: Up-sell = No tip.
I start my tip at 20% and drop it from there based on the actual service I get.
I have been known to go up for exceptional service as well (Last night I left $5 on a $10 bill because I got full service even though all I ordered was an alacarte burrito and a soda).

If the up-sell is obvious (at a sit down. I just ignore it in fast food) I'll ask to see the manager and berate THEM for it.