Sadly, this type of misogyny is prevelant thoughout the Middle East. Israel is by far the worst offender, but they ain't "without sin" here either.

Why do they hate women in the Middle East.

OlafTheBent: Israel is by far the worst offender

Yes, a newspapers aimed at a radical minority Photoshopping women out is much worse than not letting them drive, or punishing them for getting raped.

smooshie: Yes, a newspapers aimed at a radical minority Photoshopping women out is much worse than not letting them drive, or punishing them for getting raped.

Like the hasidics... I agree totally.

/They're primitive thinking is an abomination to humanity. Don't be so hard on the Israelis though. I know it's hard to believe, but the Muslims may actually be worse.

Immodest sluts.

OlafTheBent: smooshie: Yes, a newspapers aimed at a radical minority Photoshopping women out is much worse than not letting them drive, or punishing them for getting raped.

Like the hasidics... I agree totally.

/They're primitive thinking is an abomination to humanity. Don't be so hard on the Israelis though. I know it's hard to believe, but the MuslimsSaudi ruling class may actually be worse.

FTFY.

OlafTheBent: Israel is by far the worst offender,

HOLOCAUST DENIER!

\^_-

Fact is, this is a chumra that even Ultra-Orthodox people will (gently) mock. We're in a century where people are incredibly sinful and lascivious, where women walk around half-naked, so a tiny minority, G-d bless them, decide that in order to avoid sinning, they have to run in the exact direction. They might go too far, but it's still much better than the alternative.

As this is a chumra (severe restriction above and beyond the letter of Jewish law taken upon yourself in order to try and be more righteous), this is in no way Halacha (Jewish law) and this is in no way representative of Judaism.

Ultra-Orthodox news website "Voz is Neias" made fun of it last Purim:

New York - Purim Wire By VIN News: Hamodia Reports Megillah Story, Omits Esther; Editors: "Not Tznius"

New York - Hamodia, Shushan's leading Orthodox newspaper, raised more than a few eyebrows today when it published a detailed article of the recent rescue of the Persian Kingdom's Jews from the specter of annihilation without mentioning Queen Esther or publishing her photograph.

The instant-classic saga, which has rapidly become known in Jewish-community circles as Megillas Esther, was referred to by the paper as merely "the Megillah." In like manner, no image of the brave queen, who put her life on the line and revealed her Jewish identity to save her people at an eleventh-hour power lunch with King Achashverosh, was published.

"We are a Torah-true paper, even more true to the Torah than the Torah itself-or at least that part of the Torah called Megillas Fill-In-The-Blank," said a Hamodia editor. "It's good enough for Mordechai, but not us. It's just not tznius."

Another Hamodia source explained that the traditional noise-making and foot-stomping at shul Megillah readings was intended for Esther as well as Haman, so as to completely "wipe out" and otherwise avoid the issue of women.
Advertisement:

At the same time, Hamodia announced an alliance with a major publisher to reprint all Chumashim and Shas with the word "ishah" and synonymous phrases omitted. The new seforim will be endorsed by the Daas Toyras Chachoomim Gedoylim of Amerikeh.

The Daas Toyras Chachoomim Gedoylim of Amerikeh recently made headlines by issuing a blanket ban on coffee and tea.

But please, do not let this go in the way of Orthodox Jew bashing, this is the one area where people can openly be anti-Semitic, call Jews cockroaches and a plague on humanity, and not be called on it, as we saw in the last Kyrias Joel thread.

OlafTheBent: Sadly, this type of misogyny is prevelant thoughout the Middle East.

Why do they hate women in the Middle East.

This isn't misogyny, this is a minority taking the concept of modesty too far. They are decried in the rest of the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox world for going too far as well.

OlafTheBent: Like the hasidics... I agree totally.

/They're primitive thinking is an abomination to humanity.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm a chossid. My Rabbi is a chossid. Most of my friends are. I read those newspapers. None of us support these kind of things.

Our "primitive thinking is an abomination to humanity"? I hate women? That's what you think about me, my Rabbi and my friends? Maybe I shouldn't bother interacting with you in the future.

Tatsuma: But please, do not let this go in the way of Orthodox Jew bashing, this is the one area where people can openly be anti-Semitic, call Jews cockroaches and a plague on humanity, and not be called on it, as we saw in the last Kyrias Joel thread.

Misrepresentation of what occurred. People called a specific group of Jews who are intentionally poverty-stricken and have large families who rely on public assistance, cockroaches. The implication was clearly about their economic situation, not a racial one.

And I think in your rush to martyr yourself you skipped this bit:

OlafTheBent: /They're primitive thinking is an abomination to humanity. Don't be so hard on the Israelis though. I know it's hard to believe, but the Muslims may actually be worse.

But oh well, let's resign ourselves to another "Tatsuma Bravely, Oh So Bravely, Fights Against Antisemitism" thread.

Obdicut: Misrepresentation of what occurred. People called a specific group of Jews who are intentionally poverty-stricken and have large families who rely on public assistance, cockroaches. The implication was clearly about their economic situation, not a racial one.

The thread was filled to brim with anti-semitism, it was disgusting. Somehow, I feel you're just defending it in order to simply say the opposite of what I'm saying rather than being frank.

Still waiting for you to explain yourself on the King David hotel's planning and the major errors you made while explaining what happened. I see you disappeared and weren't heard from in that thread at all.

Obdicut: But oh well, let's resign ourselves to another "Tatsuma Bravely, Oh So Bravely, Fights Against Antisemitism" thread.

Hey, as long as it's another "Obdicut doesn't have to facts so he disappears into thin air", I'm fine with it.

Tatsuma:

I'm a chossid. My Rabbi is a chossid. Most of my friends are. I read those newspapers. None of us support these kind of things.


By reading those newspapers (ie: buying them), you are supporting this worldview...

KyngNothing: By reading those newspapers (ie: buying them), you are supporting this worldview...

I oppose Ha'Aretz's worldview, should I stop reading them?

I don't personally believe that, just because I disagree with some or most of what a newspaper espouses means that I should shield myself from them. I accept them for what they are.

Obdicut: Misrepresentation of what occurred. People called a specific group of Jews who are intentionally poverty-stricken and have large families who rely on public assistance, cockroaches. The implication was clearly about their economic situation, not a racial one.

Indeed, no racism at all in this thread:

YamChowder: I thought heebs were master money grubbers.

ribbit: Nogale, they're just as parasitic here as they are there.

bostonowns: societies leaches

bikkurikun: Why are theses parasites getting foodstamps?

mc706: Wow, those people are totally getting jewed.

frankie2: They are parasites. All they do is breed, take government assistance, and preach hate/intolerance.

KingTree: those people are pieces of shiat.

Flissss: Many are no different than than the mob. And they tend to be EXTREMELY rude. fark Kyrias Joel. Parasites in it's truest form.

bestie1: They are Jews. They have money. They just don't have taxable income. I'll bet that most of the trade is done in barter off the books. They probably have buried their gold in the garden and then they turned around and claimed benefits.

rcain: They steal from their own like nothing else. Look at Bernie Madoff, he put is own sister in the poor house. In fact you might say they take it easy on use gentiles... sort of like stealing candy from retards, it's fun at first, but there's just no challenge to it.

Indeed, total misrepresentation of the thread!

Tatsuma: The thread was filled to brim with anti-semitism, it was disgusting. Somehow, I feel you're just defending it in order to simply say the opposite of what I'm saying rather than being frank.

No, I'm being frank. Do you have the thread saved?

It was extremely critical about that group of Jews. It was not critical of Jews in general. An attack on a specific group of Jews living in a specific way-- say, against Chossids-- is not an attack on all Jews.

Tatsuma: Still waiting for you to explain yourself on the King David hotel's planning and the major errors you made while explaining what happened. I see you disappeared and weren't heard from in that thread at all.

Your version of the facts is wrong. You think mine is wrong. We can whip out our sources all day long and you'll never admit anything, so why would I bother? Even when you are proved to be factually wrong, you claim it never really affects your core argument anyway.

Tatsuma: Hey, as long as it's another "Obdicut doesn't have to facts so he disappears into thin air", I'm fine with it.

How many female Chossid rabbi are there?

Tatsuma: Indeed, total misrepresentation of the thread!

So, of those quotes, which of them are about Jews in general, and which are about those specific Jews? Or do you really, honestly, not care?

Tatsuma: they have to run in the exact direction.

Did you accidentally the whole post?

Obdicut: No, I'm being frank. Do you have the thread saved?

It was extremely critical about that group of Jews. It was not critical of Jews in general. An attack on a specific group of Jews living in a specific way-- say, against Chossids-- is not an attack on all Jews.

Indeed. "Heebs are master money grubbers", "getting jewed", "these people suck at being Jewish", "They are Jews. They have money. They just don't have taxable income. I'll bet that most of the trade is done in barter off the books. They probably have buried their gold in the garden and then they turned around and claimed benefits." "They steal from their own like nothing else. Look at Bernie Madoff, he put is own sister in the poor house. In fact you might say they take it easy on use gentiles... sort of like stealing candy from retards, it's fun at first, but there's just no challenge to it."

Not anti-semitism, perfectly valid critic of a single group within the Jewish community! You convinced me!

Obdicut: Your version of the facts is wrong. You think mine is wrong. We can whip out our sources all day long and you'll never admit anything, so why would I bother? Even when you are proved to be factually wrong, you claim it never really affects your core argument anyway.

Except I pointed out that every single thing you said went against reality and known facts and instead of proving that I was wrong, you ran away and said nothing.

As for being proven factually wrong and me claiming it doesn't affect my core argument anyway, yesterday I was proven factually wrong about the gift Obama gave to the Queen, at which point I retracted my earlier statements and congratulated him on a well thought-out gift and I was wrong for thinking what I had thought.

Kinda takes the wind out of your sail, no?

Hey, it's easier to claim that you know all and that even if you were to shine your holy knowledge on me, I wouldn't accept it, so why waste your time?

Obdicut: How many female Chossid rabbi are there?

So now you are saying that all:

- Modern Orthodox Jews are misogynists
- Orthodox Jews are misogynists
- Ultra-Orthodox Jews are misogynists
- Traditional Sephardi Jews are misogynists
- Traditional Mizrahi Jews are misogynists

Basically all non-secular, reform or conservative Jews are misogynists?

What about my friend's mother who was eating with us two Shabbos ago? She's completely secular, doesn't go to synagogue, she doesn't observe Halacha, she doesn't even keep Kosher. She goes for the High Holidays, that's all, and yet she still opposes the idea of a woman rabbi. She's misogynistic too?

Tatsuma: Ultra-Orthodox news website "Voz is Neias" made fun of it last Purim:

OK, now that's funny.

Tatsuma: Not anti-semitism, perfectly valid critic of a single group within the Jewish community! You convinced me!

Your claim was the thread was fill to the brim with antisemitism. My claim is that the majority of the comments in that thread, the vast, clear majority, were about that group of Jews and not Jews in particular.


Tatsuma: So now you are saying that all:

- Modern Orthodox Jews are misogynists
- Orthodox Jews are misogynists
- Ultra-Orthodox Jews are misogynists
- Traditional Sephardi Jews are misogynists
- Traditional Mizrahi Jews are misogynists

Basically all non-secular, reform or conservative Jews are misogynists?

Yes.

Tatsuma: What about my friend's mother who was eating with us two Shabbos ago? She's completely secular, doesn't go to synagogue, she doesn't observe Halacha, she doesn't even keep Kosher. She goes for the High Holidays, that's all, and yet she still opposes the idea of a woman rabbi. She's misogynistic too?

Yes.


Tatsuma: As for being proven factually wrong and me claiming it doesn't affect my core argument anyway, yesterday I was proven factually wrong about the gift Obama gave to the Queen, at which point I retracted my earlier statements and congratulated him on a well thought-out gift and I was wrong for thinking what I had thought.

So now you think that Obama is a mensch? You realize you're wrong to automatically assume the negative about him, constantly? Or you'll go on doing that?


You may be the vainest person on Fark. You're perfectly willing to shame Jews, to shame Israel, as long as you can see yourself as the hero defending Jews. It's a sadness.

Jews don't have a problem with women. See, they even put them on t-shirts:

Obdicut: You may be the vainest person on Fark. You're perfectly willing to shame Jews, to shame Israel, as long as you can see yourself as the hero defending Jews. It's a sadness.

As opposed to you being one of the most intellectually dishonest person on here, due to your claim of being so fair and academia-minded, yet when asked to provide facts you know you can't provide, you just disappear. Then when called on it, you just say "Dum dum, you just wouldn't accept my magnificient fact, why, I shan't waste my time!"

For fark's sake you went and claimed that the Histadrut! cooperated with the Irgun to plan and execute terror attacks do you realize how ignorant that makes you?

As far as being perfectly willing to shame Jews, are you really giving me this? You're one to be perfectly happy and content to go out of your way in order to spit, vilify and insult religious Jews as backward on a voluntary basis, and you're trying to school me on this?

You, a secular Jew, has claimed without basis for the whole world to see that millions and millions of Jews (I'd in fact go so far as saying close to half of the Jews worldwide, America being different from the rest of world Jewry) are misogynist.

By the same token, so are Catholics, Muslims and all others who do not accept women in the clergy.

/I'm still cracking up at "The Histadrut and the Irgun planned and executed terrorist attacks together!", it shows how utterly ignorant you are of pre-State Israel.

Why didn't they just photoshop of their boobs and vagina and leave the rest?

Tatsuma is everything terrifying about the hardliner religious types in Israel and America: 18th century Victorian views with 21st century weapons.

Tatsuma: By the same token, so are Catholics, Muslims and all others who do not accept women in the clergy.

It is widely accepted amongst Catholics that the only argument offered as to why women can not be ordained is a misogynist one.

Tatsuma: You, a secular Jew, has claimed without basis for the whole world to see that millions and millions of Jews (I'd in fact go so far as saying close to half of the Jews worldwide, America being different from the rest of world Jewry) are misogynist.

By the same token, so are Catholics, Muslims and all others who do not accept women in the clergy.

Nice deflection, but most everyone would agree that the religious bodies barring women from leadership roles are sexist.

Flab: Tatsuma: By the same token, so are Catholics, Muslims and all others who do not accept women in the clergy.

It is widely accepted amongst Catholics that the only argument offered as to why women can not be ordained is a misogynist one.

That's now how it is in the Orthodox world. Women are not prevented from studying. In fact, it's quite the opposite. Women have a huge number of things they need to learn, religion-wise. That's why there are plenty of schools for them post-highschool in order to teach that.

I mean, as I'm going to be a Rabbi BE"H, my wife will have to be really knowledgeable in the areas of niddah, kashrus, shabbos, etc... because she will have a lot of questions sent her way, especially from other women.

Just because we don't give them a specific title doesn't mean that we want them to stay pregnant, barefoot and ignorant in the kitchen.

Bored Horde: Nice deflection, but most everyone would agree that the religious bodies barring women from leadership roles are sexist.

A Rabbi isn't a position of leadership, it's not even a defined position. A Rabbi can be a lot of things. He can be someone who specializes in making sure factories produce Kosher food. He can be someone who writes Torah scrolls or Mezuzot. He can be someone who studies all day. He can be (fill in blank with the dozens and dozens of different jobs filled by Rabbis).

It's not a leadership position. Some people become leaders due to their knowledge of accomplishment, but it's not even a leadership position to begin with. This is why so many people in the Ultra-Orthodox world shun the title Rabbi to begin with.

Tatsuma: By the same token, so are Catholics, Muslims and all others who do not accept women in the clergy.

Yep.

Tatsuma: By the same token, so are Catholics, Muslims and all others who do not accept women in the clergy.

Religious fundamentalists are intolerant hypocrites. Jews aren't special or unique.

Tatsuma: Just because we don't give them a specific title doesn't mean that we want them to stay pregnant, barefoot and ignorant in the kitchen.

Thats as retarded an argument as saying a PR woman at NASA during the 1960s was just as involved in the space program by talking to the public as the astronauts. After all, being an astronaut is just a title, right?

Tatsuma: That's now how it is in the Orthodox world.

I never said it was, either.

Tatsuma: A Rabbi isn't a position of leadership, it's not even a defined position. A Rabbi can be a lot of things. He can be someone who specializes in making sure factories produce Kosher food. He can be someone who writes Torah scrolls or Mezuzot. He can be someone who studies all day. He can be (fill in blank with the dozens and dozens of different jobs filled by Rabbis).

Bolded for my personal interest.

Tatsuma: Just because we don't give them a specific title doesn't mean that we want them to stay pregnant, barefoot and ignorant in the kitchen.

Who is "we"? I think you mean men, who are the only ones with the right to award such titles.

If a woman wants to be a Rabbi and can't solely because she's a woman, that's misogyny. I guess they should be glad they are allowed to study at all, right?

Bored Horde: Thats as retarded an argument as saying a PR woman at NASA during the 1960s was just as involved in the space program by talking to the public as the astronauts. After all, being an astronaut is just a title, right?

No it's not. An Orthodox women, to know the bare minimum she has to know in order to function as an Orthodox women, has to read and study thousands and thousands of pages. In order to be knowledgeful, crank that by 10. In order to be able to answer questions, crank that first number by 20.

Some of them spend as much time studying as the men. They don't get that particular title and, here's a secret go talk to the vast vast vast majority of them and they'll tell you they don't want that title either

What do they know, Orthodox women are misogynists anyway.

Flab: I never said it was, either.

I didn't say you did, I just clarified how it is for us.

I_Love_Verdi: I guess they should be glad they are allowed to study at all, right?

Allowed to? They HAVE to.

Tatsuma: the vast vast vast majority of them and they'll tell you they don't want that title either

And there are women in Afghanistan who view girls walking about with veils instaed of full sacks over their bodies to be half-naked, sinful whores who deserve death. Are you trying to say that it is somehow special that ultra-orthodox fundie-nut jews are somehow special in creating a self-policing female underclass?

Tatsuma: Flab: I never said it was, either.

I didn't say you did, I just clarified how it is for us.

I_Love_Verdi: I guess they should be glad they are allowed to study at all, right?

Allowed to? They HAVE to.

If a woman wants to be a Rabbi and can't solely because she's a woman, that's misogyny.

Tatsuma: rcain: They steal from their own like nothing else. Look at Bernie Madoff, he put is own sister in the poor house. In fact you might say they take it easy on use gentiles... sort of like stealing candy from retards, it's fun at first, but there's just no challenge to it.

Hey asshole... first, that comment is not from this thread and if you read my post, it actually puts jews higher up in the food chain as far as financial know how go... or does recognizing that jews have historically been bankers since the middle-ages suddenly become racist? Or does making a statement about eating your own suddenly become racist? fark say ANYTHING about the jews that not blatantly ass-kissy and it's racist! Fark that shiat.

I'm tired of your conflicting sense of persecution and entitlement, so shove it.

Tatsuma: go talk to the vast vast vast majority of them and they'll tell you they don't want that title either

so indeed some do want the title but can't because of their genitalia?

I wonder if the papers even noted that they removed the women said who they removed, or just didn't bother with that little detail. I'm sorry, but not printing pictures to preserve "modesty" is just another way of depriving women of their rights.

Headso: so indeed some do want the title but can't because of their genitalia?

The term Rabbi refers to a man.

No man can be be refered as yoatzos halachoh or toanos, even thought it is pretty much the female equivalent of rabbi. Misandry!

As I said, nevermind that the job of female "rabbi" has traditionally been filled by the wife of a Rabbi, the Rebbitzin. Nope. Even though it's the same job with another title, it's sexism because it's not the exact same title.

GAT_00: I'm sorry, but not printing pictures to preserve "modesty" is just another way of depriving women of their rights.

... I think it's ridiculous to not print pictures of modestly-dressed women in religious newspapers, but let me ask you:

Which rights are women deprived from by not appearing in privately-owned newspapers?

Tatsuma: Which rights are women deprived from by not appearing in privately-owned newspapers?

The right to equal representation by their duly elected political leaders. This marginalizes them.

Theaetetus: The right to equal representation by their duly elected political leaders. This marginalizes them.

This is ridiculous. It's a private newspaper and if they don't want to feature women, that's their right, even if I disagree with it.

Calling this a violation of human rights what the fark.

Tatsuma: Calling this a violation of human rights what the fark.

It's because you aren't calling for government action to stifle a newspaper's reporting. Which you should, because these other folks are objectively right.

Tatsuma: Which rights are women deprived from by not appearing in privately-owned newspapers?

Equality. How is that difficult to see? What that says to me is that they don't see women to be the equal of men, and that is just unacceptable.

Tatsuma: This is ridiculous. It's a private newspaper and if they don't want to feature women, that's their right, even if I disagree with it.

Calling this a violation of human rights what the fark.

Yeah, and if some newspaper wants to bleach pictures of Obama so that he looks white, that's their right. I mean, WTF?

Yes, Tats, it's a violation of human rights. Is it a punishable one? No. But we can certainly shake our heads at the misogynist elements of your religion.

Theaetetus: Tatsuma: Which rights are women deprived from by not appearing in privately-owned newspapers?

The right to equal representation by their duly elected political leaders. This marginalizes them.

how could you run for office if you can't be seen...

Violation of human rights? Ok this is getting ridiculous and I think I'll go stare at a wall now.

This reminds me of Stalin...

how many times did he retouch that photo.

I know not the same, still a facepalm.

Tatsuma: Violation of human rights? Ok this is getting ridiculous and I think I'll go stare at a wall now.

Really? You see nothing wrong with this? That is just baffling.

Tatsuma: KyngNothing: By reading those newspapers (ie: buying them), you are supporting this worldview...

I oppose Ha'Aretz's worldview, should I stop reading them?

I don't personally believe that, just because I disagree with some or most of what a newspaper espouses means that I should shield myself from them. I accept them for what they are.

Obdicut: Misrepresentation of what occurred. People called a specific group of Jews who are intentionally poverty-stricken and have large families who rely on public assistance, cockroaches. The implication was clearly about their economic situation, not a racial one.

Indeed, no racism at all in this thread:

YamChowder: I thought heebs were master money grubbers.

ribbit: Nogale, they're just as parasitic here as they are there.

bostonowns: societies leaches

bikkurikun: Why are theses parasites getting foodstamps?

mc706: Wow, those people are totally getting jewed.

frankie2: They are parasites. All they do is breed, take government assistance, and preach hate/intolerance.

KingTree: those people are pieces of shiat.

Flissss: Many are no different than than the mob. And they tend to be EXTREMELY rude. fark Kyrias Joel. Parasites in it's truest form.

bestie1: They are Jews. They have money. They just don't have taxable income. I'll bet that most of the trade is done in barter off the books. They probably have buried their gold in the garden and then they turned around and claimed benefits.

rcain: They steal from their own like nothing else. Look at Bernie Madoff, he put is own sister in the poor house. In fact you might say they take it easy on use gentiles... sort of like stealing candy from retards, it's fun at first, but there's just no challenge to it.

Indeed, total misrepresentation of the thread!

Look again there big guy. There is a bit of tasteless sarcasm (which, no matter how much you wish it was, is not racist) and the rest of the list are known trolls. You've been around long enough to know they are trolls. And the other people are the same ones that demonize Americans on welfare regardless of color and class. Sorry, but you are quickly becoming the blind zealot that claims any reasonable criticism of Israel or Jewish people in general is hatred. One can be angry and/or question a group of people without those feelings extending to EVERYONE.