That accounts for the very loud, very drunk cover of "Barbara Ann" on one of the Who's early albums.

Keef was a rock drumming God

It would have been very therapeutic for the Beach Boys to smash their instruments after every set, though.

No offense to Mr. Moon, but I don't think you can do better than Hal Blaine on that album.

When I read the headline, I processed Keith "Moon" as Keith "Sweat" and thought that would relly suck. Then I reread it correctly and realized that it would still really suck.

I'd like to make two very important points:

1) The Beach Boys were/are NOT surf music
2) The Beach Boys were/are completely horrible. The world is more complex and interesting than girls and cars.

/fan of girls and cars

JerseyTim: No offense to Mr. Moon, but I don't think you can do better than Hal Blaine on that album.

hal blaine + carol kaye = heaven.

*imagines Pet Sounds with Kieth Moon playing*

Yeah, that would have been different.

50mm: fan of girls and cars

... and the third world war?

/Colin James nods...

50mm: I'd like to make two very important points:

I must respectfully disagree with point #2. The reason I do so is because you obviously made your decision in re: Quality of The Beach Boys without really taking the time get fully informed. I suggest you listen to Pet Sounds and reconsider your opinion.

That is all.

/Pet Sounds for the win.

Infamous Dr. X:
I must respectfully disagree with point #2. The reason I do so is because you obviously made your decision in re: Quality of The Beach Boys without really taking the time get fully informed. I suggest you listen to Pet Sounds and reconsider your opinion.

That is all.

/Pet Sounds for the win.

Ugh, farking Pet Sounds. Rest assured it was included in my research. It did not affect the outcome, but it did create a corollary: Songs by the Beach Boys with topics other than cars and girls are also terrible.

/yes, I'm arguing about music on the internet

50mm: yes, I'm arguing about music on the internet

Lolz. Yeah, it's pathetic. You'd think we'd have learned by now.

50mm: I'd like to make two very important points:

1) The Beach Boys were/are NOT surf music
2) The Beach Boys were/are completely horrible. The world is more complex and interesting than girls and cars.

/fan of girls and cars

Someone stopped listening in '63.

Look, I'm not a HUGE Beach Boys fan? But I respect their contributions, and really like a lot of their stuff. And to pigeonhole them as "just being about surfing, girls and cars," is about as fair as saying "The Beatles were just a bunch of pop tossers who sang about girls and hand-holding" because you bailed after "Please Please Me."

MaxxLarge:
Someone stopped listening in '63.

Look, I'm not a HUGE Beach Boys fan? But I respect their contributions, and really like a lot of their stuff. And to pigeonhole them as "just being about surfing, girls and cars," is about as fair as saying "The Beatles were just a bunch of pop tossers who sang about girls and hand-holding" because you bailed after "Please Please Me."

Their topics changed. The quality of their music did not.

50mm:
Their topics changed. The quality of their music did not.

Regardless of WHAT they sang about, the chord progressions, bass, and harmonies are always interesting, never formulaic. I play jazz and their stuff is a tremendous sandbox.

Control_this: 50mm:
Their topics changed. The quality of their music did not.

Regardless of WHAT they sang about, the chord progressions, bass, and harmonies are always interesting, never formulaic. I play jazz and their stuff is a tremendous sandbox.

I respectfully disagree, but as I look deep within myself I may just have a completely irrational psychotic hatred of the Beach Boys. That my boss frequently rips into his office-wide broadcast of Help Me Rhonda does not help free me of it.

Drugs... they're a helluva drug.

Dennis Wilson was perhaps the worst drummer of any well known rock band in the history of the world.

Moon would not have helped because the rest of the "Boys" were barely competent on their instruments as well.

50mm: Ugh, farking Pet Sounds. Rest assured it was included in my research. It did not affect the outcome, but it did create a corollary: Songs by the Beach Boys with topics other than cars and girls are also terrible.

I'm a Beach Boys fan from the days my Dad would play their 8-Tracks in the car. But I'm going to back you on this with a couple of carefully-worded modifications:

1. In terms of basic musical structure, the early songs about surfing and cars were not especially interesting. The Boys' signature harmonies were always neat, but three-chord, verse-chorus-verse songs weren't especially interesting from a compositional standpoint. They're fun songs to listen to as examples of basic rock-and-roll, just like Chuck Berry's stuff is still fun to listen to, but beyond the harmonies, the songs are just sort of generic and fluffy.

2. Once Brian got into his compositional phase, the songs started becoming fascinating from a music theory and orchestral standpoint, but became somewhat unfun to listen to just as enjoyable music. "Good Vibrations" has a ton of interesting material for those who care about phrasing and progressions and whatnot, but other than a mildly-hooky chorus, it's not the kind of song you'd pump into the radio to help perk up a long drive or something you'd find yourself singing in the shower. Ditto for "God Only Knows" and *shudder* "Heroes and Villains" and the like. Brian Wilson saw himself in a creative battle with Paul McCartney, but Brian just didn't have the chops to write hooks half as catchy as what McCartney put out on his worst days. As a result, I'll listen to the "Pet Sounds"-era stuff all day, but my GF, who just wants to *hear* music, can't stand the Beach Boys, and I can't blame her for that.

3. Late-era Beach Boys, from "Cruisn'" onward, were just sort of going through the motions.

Love You
/that is all

Uzzah: 2. Once Brian got into his compositional phase, the songs started becoming fascinating from a music theory and orchestral standpoint, but became somewhat unfun to listen to just as enjoyable music.

for who? also, who the hell is a fan of 'the beach boys'? they were an average 60s band. then brian wilson became cool and started writing interesting music the other guys had zero to do with except some vocals absolutely anyone couldve done like on pet sounds. which brings up the final point-pet sounds is hardly the best brian wilson product, that would be the ORIGINAL smile. yes you can find complete original recordings of all that stuff and it beats the shiat out of pet sounds on every level.

/pet sounds is a cool record, but REAL overrated, especially considering what was happening on smile

Uzzah: "Good Vibrations" has a ton of interesting material for those who care about phrasing and progressions and whatnot, but other than a mildly-hooky chorus, it's not the kind of song you'd pump into the radio to help perk up a long drive or something you'd find yourself singing in the shower.

Good Vibrations isn't a song you can sing in the shower or play on a long drive? You're either too high or not high enough.

And mahavishnunj? I'm a fan of the Beach Boys. Way moreso than The Who. But I'm terribly biased since I grew up listening to the Beach Boys and they inspired The Jesus and Mary Chain, whereas The Who helped inspire the fetid turd known as Pearl Jam. I'd become a Scientologist if it meant Eddie Vedder would die a horrible death.

The beach boys are awesome. Fun catchy songs, amazing arrangements later in their career.

/And as far as post Pet sounds stuff goes it's Dennis Wilsons Pacific Ocean Blue FTW.

AgentOrangeDrink: Good Vibrations isn't a song you can sing in the shower or play on a long drive? You're either too high or not high enough.

Ever hear someone sing it in a Karaoke bar? Ever try to whistle it all the way through from beginning to end? Ever drop it into a mix tape for a friend? It's a helluva song, and the chorus makes for a nice summertime-driving-with-the-top-down mood, but as a whole, it's not exactly the most listener-friendly thing in the world (especially when you move beyond the single version and into various permutations of album cuts). The key and tempo change from the chorus to the "I don't know where" section can be jarring to a listener and then, just when you've acclimated to that change, it shifts tempo and key again to the "Gotta keep..." section, which itself ends even more abruptly before dropping back to the chorus (and I won't even start in on the theremin outro to fade...). To a casual listener, it's awkward and confusing and difficult to get into a groove on.

I'm not saying it's not a brilliant song, and indeed, it sold a lot more '45s than one could have expected from something that radically different than what was on the radio at the time (which is a testment to Brian Wilson's ability to make something as complicated as GV still feel accessible). But if you imagine the average pop song as the musical equivalent of an Anne Geddes photograph, "Good Vibrations" was like looking at "Guernica."

AdolfOliverPanties: Dennis Wilson was perhaps the worst drummer of any well known rock band in the history of the world. Moon would not have helped because the rest of the "Boys" were barely competent on their instruments as well.

He didn't drum on Pet Sounds. In fact, none of the Beach Boys played any of the instruments on Pet Sounds. It was all hired musicians playing Brian Wilson songs. The only thing you hear from the rest of the beach boys on that album are the vocal harmonies.

Its not even really fair to call its a Beach Boys album. Its more of a Brian Wilson solo effort.

And yes, Pacific Ocean Blue is great. River Song in especially fantastic.

Not sure why so many people hate on Keith's drumming. Perhaps it is because they have never picked up a stick in their life.

bingethinker: That accounts for the very loud, very drunk cover of "Barbara Ann" on one of the Who's early albums.

Moon goes apeshiat on that cut. It's some of my favourite drumming ever.

50mm: I'd like to make two very important points:

1) The Beach Boys were/are NOT surf music
2) The Beach Boys were/are completely horrible. The world is more complex and interesting than girls and cars.

/fan of girls and cars

There's nothing else in this crazy world
Except for cars and girls.

(The world's complexity does not rock and roll make)

chickyraptor: LL' uı uuɐ ɐɹɐqɹɐq ƃuıop ɥʇıǝʞ/oɥʍ ǝɥʇ

That made me dizzy

OlafTheBent: Keef was a rock drumming God

Keef != Keith Moon

Nah. Pet Sounds had no cymbals on it.

About the people arguing about the Beach Boys.... If you've read me in the music tab, you rarely seen me use the word "genius" towards someone. That's because I would attribute that to only about 4 people in pop music.

Brian Wilson would be the one I'd name first


/don't get me started

AdolfOliverPanties: Dennis Wilson was perhaps the worst drummer of any well known rock band in the history of the world.

don henley would like a word with you.

Inigo_Montoya:

OlafTheBent: Keef was a rock drumming God

Keef != Keith Moon

HappyHarryHardOn: About the people arguing about the Beach Boys.... If you've read me in the music tab, you rarely seen me use the word "genius" towards someone. That's because I would attribute that to only about 4 people in pop music.

Brian Wilson would be the one I'd name first

/don't get me started

I generally think you have pretty fantastic taste, so I have to ask who the other three might be.

chickyraptor: Inigo_Montoya: OlafTheBent: Keef was a rock drumming God

Keef != Keith Moon

I prefer this one, myself:

control_this
Regardless of WHAT they sang about, the chord progressions, bass, and harmonies are always interesting, never formulaic. I play jazz and their stuff is a tremendous sandbox.

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE.

organizm
He didn't drum on Pet Sounds. In fact, none of the Beach Boys played any of the instruments on Pet Sounds. It was all hired musicians playing Brian Wilson songs. The only thing you hear from the rest of the beach boys on that album are the vocal harmonies.


wait, what?

really??!
I totally didn't know that.... hmph.
thanks for the info!

50mm: Infamous Dr. X:
I must respectfully disagree with point #2. The reason I do so is because you obviously made your decision in re: Quality of The Beach Boys without really taking the time get fully informed. I suggest you listen to Pet Sounds and reconsider your opinion.

That is all.

/Pet Sounds for the win.

Ugh, farking Pet Sounds. Rest assured it was included in my research. It did not affect the outcome, but it did create a corollary: Songs by the Beach Boys with topics other than cars and girls are also terrible.

/yes, I'm arguing about music on the internet

And not very convincingly. Pet Sounds, and even the recent "Smile" album by Brian Wilson are just friggin awesome.

Pet sounds is awesome, also I spilled hot sauce into my mouse and am getting hot sauce in my keyboard. These things are not related, at least not in any way you need to be concerned about. Ending sentences with prepositions is awesome, notwithstanding postpositions.

mahavishnunj: pet sounds is hardly the best brian wilson product, that would be the ORIGINAL smile. yes you can find complete original recordings of all that stuff and it beats the shiat out of pet sounds on every level.

/pet sounds is a cool record, but REAL overrated, especially considering what was happening on smile

In the late 80's, I went through a "get every scrap of the original SMiLE, all sequenced in different ways" phase and I disagree completely with that. Put simply, the inclusion of the songs Vega-tables and Do You Like Worms knock it down a peg, some of the other songs are very slight and really, it's the inclusion of Good Vibrations, Surf's Up and Heroes and Villans that make the album.

I saw Brian and his band do it at Disney Hall and I simply think it's not as good as Pet Sounds, which has one flaw: Sloop John B., which I love but it totally out of place on that album. I first heard Pet Sounds as a sad and lonely teenager and it was like it was written about me. Who the fark is Vega-tables and Do You Like Worms written for?

Or maybe it's the fact that Americana, which SMiLE is steeped in, makes me all stabby.

Third_Uncle_Eno: wait, what?

really??!
I totally didn't know that.... hmph.
thanks for the info!

Yeah, you can check out the wikipedia page on Pet Sounds and click on the individual songs for more info. For example, the pages for You Still Believe in Me (new window) and God Only Knows (new window) list the massive amount of muscians that were hired to play on what are a seemingly simple three minute pop songs.

Oh, and for the best "version" of the original Smile, check out the Purple Chick's download of it (you can find a torrent of it). Best put together version in my opinion.

The STORY behind smile is what makes it a really great listen, and its definitely fantastic at certain points (Surf's Up is farking brilliant), but it just lacks the emotional impact that Pet Sounds has.

And finally, for those of who haven't heard Dennis Wilson's solo stuff: Link (new window)


/that's it. i'm done. i swear.

Paul McCartney said "God Only Knows" is the greatest love song
ever written.

I disagree: "Don't Worry Baby" is, and it comes from the tail
end of the Beach Boys "Girls and Cars" phase, when Brian was
just discovering his Mozart-like musical ability. And, oddly,
it was also covered by Keith Moon.

JerseyTim: No offense to Mr. Moon, but I don't think you can do better than Hal Blaine on that album.

Glad to see you know about Hal. My band hired him to play on one of our records back in the late 90s. Amazing player but the most memorable moments with him was talking about past gigs, like asking questions over lunch about his roles with the Beatles and the Beach Boys. He pretty steadfastly refused to comment on the Beatles stuff, even though I have often been curious if he was really the drummer on Golden Slumbers.

HappyHarryHardOn


"Lysol" (original title before corporate threats ensued)
is pure masterpiece.

Dale Crover is the most original rock drummer alive.

I have been listening to the MELVINS for years now and I still can't figure out some of their rhythms.

AgentOrangeDrink: HappyHarryHardOn: About the people arguing about the Beach Boys.... If you've read me in the music tab, you rarely seen me use the word "genius" towards someone. That's because I would attribute that to only about 4 people in pop music.

Brian Wilson would be the one I'd name first

/don't get me started

I generally think you have pretty fantastic taste, so I have to ask who the other three might be.

Burt Bacharach for sure, Zappa, Captain Beefheart with some reservations

organizm

i listened to that "River song" by Dennis Wilson you linked to...

WOW. i love that middle section... great song.

and i listened to "thoughts of you"... great song too.... sad...
great middle section as well.

love the strings.

his voice reminds me of a californian[?] and tired version of a combination of Levon Helm and Tom Waits.

if the rest of the album is as great as those two songs,
I think i shall look for the album next time i'm at the cd store