A Love Supreme. My number one all-time album. Coltrane's original, of course.

Another jazz thread I'm about to jizz myself!

The smugness is huge with this one.

Branford too? I thought Wynton was the the smug one.

Not a nod to Coltrane so much as a cash-in on one of his great/well known albums. These guys aren't putting an original spin on the music, they're just playing it as tunes, complete with original album licks. The spirituality, passion, intensity and raw beauty of the original is missing, but all the surface level elements are here.

mctom: Not a nod to Coltrane so much as a cash-in on one of his great/well known albums. These guys aren't putting an original spin on the music, they're just playing it as tunes, complete with original album licks. The spirituality, passion, intensity and raw beauty of the original is missing, but all the surface level elements are here.

What exactly are they supposed to do? Obscure the melodies of one of the more well-known jazz pieces, rendering them unrecognizable, all to avoid playing it "as tunes"?

"What exactly are they supposed to do? Obscure the melodies of one of the more well-known jazz pieces, rendering them unrecognizable, all to avoid playing it "as tunes"?

Why not? Scott Henderson did that with Stella by Starlight. He played it straight then played his own version which he named "Stella by infra red neutron beams." If you want something even wilder, listen to Derek Bailey's version (if you can find it). Or how about Pat Metheny and Jim Halls take on All the Things You are on their duo album.

I understand your point, but it's not an either/or situation. There's a middle ground between playing it as it was played originally and making it totally different. There are a ton of things you can do to make a standard fresh and original.

JubeiKibagami: What exactly are they supposed to do? Obscure the melodies of one of the more well-known jazz pieces, rendering them unrecognizable, all to avoid playing it "as tunes"?

You don't have to obscure the melody in order to make it your own. There are a million ways that you can personalize a melody and still let it be what it is-- but with respect to this video, I'm talking about the performance as a whole. They're playing it just like the Coltrane quartet played it, minus the intensity. They are playing it like it's any other tune on some gig-- in both the sax and piano solos there are plenty of verbatim quotes of McCoy Tyner and Coltrane-- not an original approach to the music that suggests inspiration (and a launch-pad for ones own storytelling), this just sounds like a cover band.

Slamguy: There's a middle ground between playing it as it was played originally and making it totally different. There are a ton of things you can do to make a standard fresh and original.

And there's also a huge difference between standards (stella, all the things, other 'warhorses' that you play a million times) and epochal albums/songs (like 'Love Supreme' or 'Spiritual Unity' by Albert Ayler).

And there's also a huge difference between standards (stella, all the things, other 'warhorses' that you play a million times) and epochal albums/songs (like 'Love Supreme' or 'Spiritual Unity' by Albert Ayler).

-Agreed.

-Ah, Albert Ayler, I've only heard Love Cry but it. Have you heard that album and if so would you say it's indicative of his music in general?

-Also, I read on your page that you listen/play Haitian music. Are there any "essential" artists or album's you could recommend?

Whoops! Didn't finish that thought: "-Ah, Albert Ayler, I've only heard Love Cry but was unlike any music I had heard at the time. Especially Dancing Flowers."

Slamguy: -Ah, Albert Ayler, I've only heard Love Cry but it. Have you heard that album and if so would you say it's indicative of his music in general?

-Also, I read on your page that you listen/play Haitian music. Are there any "essential" artists or album's you could recommend?

Love Cry is a part of the 2nd phase of Aylers stuff-- the first being 'Spiritual Unity', 'Ghosts', 'Hilversum' and the like. The Love Cry phase is mostly march-type themes played like an avant-garde marching band, the earlier stuff theres more soloing. The later stuff is more boogaloo ('new grass', etc). i'd just check out the albums and see what you think, but I happen to like all of it.

Haitian music is hard to find in the US (even in NY and Miami it is hard) but here are some videos:

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

Link (new window)

And if you can find recordings of 'Les Gypsies de Petion-Ville' (Loa-Baron and Pacole are my favorites), 'Tabou Combo' and 'Coupe Cloue'... There's also a band called 'Ayibobo' that is reall good. there are three basic divisions of Haitian music-- kompa (pop music), racine (roots-- pop mixed with traditional drumming) and vodou music. Enjoy!

Thanks for the info!

Oh sweet, Marc Ribot released a tribute to Ayler in 2003 titled Spiritual Unity. I'll have to compare the two.

mctom: You don't have to obscure the melody in order to make it your own. There are a million ways that you can personalize a melody and still let it be what it is-- but with respect to this video, I'm talking about the performance as a whole. They're playing it just like the Coltrane quartet played it, minus the intensity. They are playing it like it's any other tune on some gig-- in both the sax and piano solos there are plenty of verbatim quotes of McCoy Tyner and Coltrane-- not an original approach to the music that suggests inspiration (and a launch-pad for ones own storytelling), this just sounds like a cover band.

i love branford but i have to agree with this. ive never been impressed with the record, or live versions of him doing a love supreme. its odd, theres no intensity on these things but the first time i saw him live was the most intense thing ever.

It was Resolution, not Acknowledgment.

mahavishnunj: i love branford but i have to agree with this. ive never been impressed with the record, or live versions of him doing a love supreme. its odd, theres no intensity on these things but the first time i saw him live was the most intense thing ever.

Yeah, and besides the 'labels idea' explanation, why is he doing this? He must feel the difference (as well as realize that his own stuff 'gets there' much more than this)... Worst of all, there are so many chapter-and-verse Coltrane licks it sounds like he went to jazz college or something.

Worst of all, there are so many chapter-and-verse Coltrane licks it sounds like he went to jazz college or something.

Do you not study other's licks? I do but I would never play them in a solo, just as a launching pad for my own ideas.

/music college dropout

Slamguy: Do you not study other's licks? I do but I would never play them in a solo, just as a launching pad for my own ideas.

/music college dropout

Sure, like anyone else, but I don't practice them as my own vocabulary-- like you said, I use them to work out my own ideas based on the thing that I liked. But even on tunes with solos that I've studied, I don't reproduce phrases/ideas from the solos when I play those tunes.

/the guitar is hard enough already, thank you
//kicked out of music school